So, users of AMax, what is your verdict? Is it worth the cost? Do you think that it works and looks better than M3? Any caveats, complaints, feature requests? Thanks, :)

Attached Link: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=21103

If you haven't seen the thread at DAZ, check it out. It's long, but interesting, and mostly on-topic. People who love Apollo, people who hate him, people who loved him but now hate him, people who hated him but now love him...you name it. :-)

Me, I haven't decided yet. I really dislike his default look. His face looks effeminate to me. People have morphed his body a lot, but all the face morphs I've seen have had that odd, babyfaced look.

Mike 3 is in use sometime folder ( I really hate dealing with Him). Amax is OK, have not had time to use him much. I use David most of the time, he is my Fav.

The extra joint zones are the bomb for posing. It does increase pose time but results are really good. Shoulders and hip especially. He bends from the lower waist all the way to the knees as one zone so this wreaks havoc on the texture much more than mil figures. Many more morphs will follow I'm sure. Hopefully one to scale his hands and kneecaps, etc. If you plan to always have him clothed then he's there right now. I do wish all expressions were bunched together...

I've been drooling over all the various ApolloMax pics for weeks. I'm drooling even more now that he's out and people are doing stuff with him. And it looks like he comes with a whole lot of extra loot--more than I think I've gotten with any Daz character I've gotten. But for that price, there damn well better be a dial to make him pop out of the monitor, cook me dinner, and rub my feet. I may cave in and buy him before the sale is over, but right now it's looking like I'm going to stick with David.

In his default outfit of course!!! ;) hehe I don't have him, but he looks rather yummy to me. And babyface? A babe, maybe, but not "baby faced".

The only hiccup I've run across is the way his new shoulders mess up clothing that has been converted via Wardrobe Wizard. New clothing that is made for him shouldn't have that problem.

Verdict: Totally worth it. This figure deserves to thrive. First thing I did with A.Max was a simple 100 frame pose-to-pose interpolation. The figure's movement in the animation was surprisingly realistic, I was very impressed. The more I realize what you can do with it the more I like it ... just need more time to master it, as it's different. I've done a bit of morphing with the face and love the options. Totally superb figure, just needs more textures (and yeah, I know they're on the way.)

After perusing the Daz3D thread (thanks, randym77!) and giving a look over the AM forum at RuntimeDNA (they need to make it more visible - go to Forums from the left menu and it's nowhere to be found (?)), I am impressed. The images showing variation, bending, and other improvements over other figures definitely have me sold. The cost is steep (considering available packages), but I'll just step into it slowly. :)

I've worked with this figure alot...I can't see going back to M3. To me its like M3 was to Dork. Once you get used to Apollo he's just so much easier to work with in terms of creating a character. As for costs, well, don't forget all those fun little DAZ add ons. I think AMAX is well worth it. -jay

Richardson, his hands ~are scalable. ;) As well as his feet and almost the rest of him. Yes, his default look is roundish and "babyfaced" but you can do a ton of stuff with the morphs he's got built in.

I know. I shouldn't complain. Lemme see... I have M2/V2, M3/V3/V3male, Stephanie Petite, David, Aiko3, Hiro, MilKids, YoungTeens, MilSkeleton, SkeletonAV. Should I keep going? ;P

I think Apollo is great, he is extremely versatile, and there is fantastic new technology and concepts as part of the package (e.g. ADS). It's been an expensive but exciting week with Apollo Maximus and the Wardrobe Wziard both being released. I can't imagine why they would want to release such a non-event like Renda straight after .....

Hola! Obviously I am biased. But I guess I can can just throw my pitch in. Simply, I have not received any negative email from customers. He's already sold hundreds of copies with overwhelming positive feedback. Most email uses phrases like "Awesome", "Blown away", "incredible", etc. People who are long time riggers/content makers are praising him for detail and quality. If you are a merchant, just a few sales of a product paid for the purchase costing you nothing. Any in the grand scheme of things, most people are going to spend $49.95 this year anyway, so you might as well get a whole figure bundle. People who have actually bought him are happy. If you are happy with what you have you should stick with what you have. Being a hobby we get to choose than goodness. But I will say without any hesitation, he is not less in quality to any poser figure you have bought to date. Is that diplomatic enough? I think the nervous stage is over. He is quality. And he does what I said he does. Hope that helps. hehe

So far I'm impressed with him, and as new items are released I'm sure others will gravitate to him. Can't wait for the new female. I love the fact that he looks so different from all the other male characters. Marque

Thanks for the personal response, Anton. So far I am very impressed with what I have seen of the figure. Now all I have to do is get RDNA to push through my Paypal payment (knew I shoulda used a CC). Should I give a "gentle" nudge? :)

i have never been able to get a face that i really like before with other figures but with apollo it was very easy for me and the guy im making looks so cute! the thing i like most of all is how you can get a really good looking nose! i think apollo has sooo many features and well worth the price! btw i think the default guy is cute to. lol

Anton...are you really working on a 'mate' for Apollo? oh joy, oh bliss!! if I could have a female model as wonderful as he looks, then I'd be all set! any tentative timeframe for release, if you are in fact working on one? ;D Karen

hehe. I don't know vey much at all about Paypal or how that works. I am sure it will get through as soon as possible. You never dawdle with money matters so I'm sure you'll be set soon. :)

Blonderlla, yes I plan one but not in 2005. Apollo has all my attention as he deserves. So she will be Venus Maximus 2006 or some variation if I opt out of using Venus.

YESSSSS!!!! that's fantastic Anton...you've made my day! and I dont mind the wait at all (well, maybe just a little...hehe), cause I know it'll be well worth it...thankyou thankyou! gets at the front of the line for Venus Maximus ;D

randym77, Who you callin' effeminate? :) I hope you realize I am j/k! :)

Well, I might be a bit prejudice, but Apollo Maximus is just plain awesome in my book!! And there is still so much yet to discover!!

Thatface cracks me up. "Yo Alice! Is the meatloaf ready yet?! My beer is getting warm!"

Kal, that is so "Rocky" it's scary LOL!! Wonderful work ;)

I've found with Apollo, that although great attention has been paid to creating wonderfully detailed face morphs, his body morphs need work. The muscular definition in his arms and legs are almost non-existant. In fact, the "definition" dial for arms, forearms, legs, etc. simply plumps them up. There is no real "cut" look to this figure. The "muscular" dials create a body that appears to be carrying a bit of baby fat. With the exception of the abdominal group, there are no defined forearm, tricep, or thigh muscles, plus his calves look artificial, as does his upper back. But the real test for me has always been how the mesh handles the "both arms raised above the head" pose. Sorry, but Apollo does poorly here as well. Although his arms seem to look natural in that position, his pecs do not. And no manner of tweaking seems to be able to put them in their natural, flattened and raised position in that pose. (M2 still has no peer in that regard)

But, for the most part, Apollo is very posable. Each of his "shoulders" move independantly of the upper arms. Same for the "pelvis" which can be posed separately from the hip. (Thank you, Anton!)

Is it worth the price? Absolutely. Although David is still my favorite post-M2 figure, I think Apollo has a great deal of potential. After all this is only his first incarnation. Good work, Anton.

First?! Who said I'm bothering with another? You do one. lol :P Seriously. just kidding. hehe. We did update the product page preview images too. :)

Apollo has a great potential...and with simple turn of deal You can create differents way of male characters... And the shape of the shoulders are ,finally,in the rigth way... After David & Hiro, Apollo is my favourite male figure... Gerardo from Italy

Hey gerardo! I loved that image! It is my desktop pic atm. Where did it go? hehe

Oh there it is. :)

First?! Who said I'm bothering with another? :P

LOL. Actually, we're all hoping for a whole litter of Apollos (Apolli)? After you get some much needed rest, of course. :D

Litter!? Wow, he is prolific even before genital morphs applied. ;P It seems to be a good consensus that David and Hiro are good male figures. And, funnily, I agree. These two, now three with Apollo (and Starbuck female - hint, hint), are my favorite. Now, I only hope that my Poser->Cinema4D plugin, interPoser Pro, will be able to do justice to the JPs and other features.

Apolli? Isn't that a town? Seriously though. Shape is a subjective. I did intend him to be flexible and soft-bodied. The baby fat was purposely added to offset "Plastic" references I have seen over the years. Also I just don't think 80K poly figures are the answer. The make the figures bend worse past a certain count. Diagnal cutlines are not joint friendly and cause half the problems with Poser/3d figures. If people who have done 4 generations of figures over 7 years still can't do it themselves that is saying maybe the method doesn't work? In Lord of the Rings, look at Glollum's arms. Count how many times his elbows go above his ears. During your own day count the number of times your elbows go over your ears. Watch the matrix and count.. etc etc. Moreso than legs, with arms you must make a choice. Polygons are polygons and you have to make choices in design. My choice was a figure that met 97% of pose needs. lol my motto is "Apollo wins hands down" No pun intended. :) Also JCM is not the answer. Rememebr he has none and poses so well. I could have put it in but where does that leave the clothing makers? I think JCM is deceptive. SHow me what it does without it. That is what I would want to know. Right? That way you know what clothes can do etc. Morphs can always be added by creator or user. I actually wish people would. They are allowed to. But the more you commit any one figure to a specific geom genre, the harder it is to get away from that with morphs. Has anyone ever noticed that all those figures with pretty kneecap cutlines all have the same problem? Why is that..the cutline maybe? See where I am going witht this? Besides if he was cut by default everyone would say he didn't look real. When you are dealing with artistic vision, you can't really win. :) Everyone thinks something different is "normal" or "correct". hehe Those crazy artists. Fore example, his default proportions are an alamgam of 7 different human proportional charts and I have seen some say his forearms are too short. Any longer and he would look like a chimp but go figure. hehe In the end each person should use what you like and what you enjoy. But if after all these years, and figures, you are still unhappy, buy Apollo. He isn't like anything else. OMG I am so chatty tonight. Way tooo much caffine. lol

With Poser, 80K poly figures are the answer. Well, the only answer while they use outdated polygon meshes when everyone else is using HyperNURBS and such. I must concur that joints is joints. Once set (hint to Renda), they are not something to be played with. Morphs, alternatively, can be added infinitum (or until your computer screams for mercy). I've just played a little with Apollo and I am very satisfied with what I see. You have definitely done your homework and applied your experience. With respect to the 'elbows above the ears' (At least you didn't say 'knees above the ears'. That's something else entirely!), I agree completely. The standard (and this is from those guys who make figures like Gollum) is that the arms should be defaulted to 45d down (between at your sides and straight out). Now, for some apps this is obviously not optimal since they prefer axially aligned default poses (the 'on the cross' pose - Poser for instance). But from the point of view of anatomy, this is the most natural pose from which to start wrt deformations anyway. Your arms will spend most of their time between these two minor extremes while spending little time raise above the ears or crossed in front of the chest (mainly reserved for Egyptian funerals). I think that it is good that you have designed Apollo from a unique perspective - it appears to have resulted in an optimal Poser figure. Too much caffeine earlier, too much rum later. Hey, it's my bd. I get to celebrate a little! :)

Funny things about poses and joints. Really the legs should be bent too but that is not a pill to be swallowed lightly. I think the true neutral human position is fetal. In the end default to nature. But you can't make clothes for a fetus obj pose. :)

btw: Thanks!!!!! Hope you have fun. Remember the read-me and our forum for him.

Well, isn't it (for Poser) that you build the 'axially aligned' pose in the Setup room and then do the slight bends afterwards (Memorized pose) to facilitate IK? Without IK considerations, it's all about deformations (instead of IK solutions). But then, I see your point about 'relaxed' posture for poses. One would think that the natural default pose would be always at the median between the two extremes of the joints rotation capabilities, thus building-in the least amount of deformation for each direction of freedom. This is what makes Poser so unique, in my opinion. Most character design is based upon the needs of the end result. As in, if the figure isn't going to be kicking its legs up to its head in the end product (still, animation, feature film), why design for it? Or, build the clothes onto the figure since it will not be changing these during its actual usage. Only support the features needed towards that end is the mantra. But Poser designs on overall flexibility. There is no 'towards this specific end' mentality. And this adds complexity. This is why I think (and have voiced on occassion) the need for Poser to move to the next realm - or for an unforeseen competitor to do this. If you are going to make general, all-purpose human figures, then use the state of the art. Currently, we are using the state of 1991. ;) Great product, Anton. I will definitely be supporting this and looking impatiently forward to Starbuck/Venus/whatevernameIcanthinkofwhilewaiting. Don't forget to relax once in a while to reinvigorate your determination and drive! Thank you, Rober

I think he may just be the best figure ever created for Poser, if i was creating images rather than models i might just be tempted to forget the other male models in favor of Apollo...time will tell wether "may" and "might" become "is" and "would" (for me personally i mean)...2 things disapoint me though, 1 his long name LOL, come on Anton have a heart for us crap typers (and spellers, you should know better ;o) and 2 we are going to have to wait so long for the lady....Steve

After looking at all of the various posted images I sadly must pass on this figure HIs woeful lack of well defined muscle definition Makes him not usable for the Male images I prefer to render. I have looked at the "ethnic" morphs over at DNA and find then just to be variations of caucasion looks Anton is to be lauded in that for posing Apollo is step forward in poser technology in general and hopefully will signal the end of that ridiculous "morph injection" horseshit!! but alasI cant see him being of any use to me and will likely buy Wardrobe wizard to use on the venerable Mike 2 After all these years I still find mike2 the most versatile poser male for achieving unique looks as seen in my CG self Clone pictured here. **LONG LIVE MIKE2!!!!!**

Wolf, that's you? Can I get your number? ;) I just put through my purchase of Apollo Maximus. I love M3 and David, and Hiro is my new baby, but Apollo looks just... wonderful. Maybe it's because it's a male figure made by someone who isn't afraid of the male form, or maybe it's just because Anton has an urge to pay attention to detail. Everyone I've spoken to who owns him is incredibly happy with him. I just really hope he's worth the 50$ like everyone says, because right now, that's a big amount for me. :(

lol. No fair. you image is postworked!. hehe Like I have said so many time, but one more time won't kill me. "...he is what you dial him to be." Everyone has their own styles. And a texture makes all the differece. This is Apollo with a QUICK/SPLOPPY spin of the dials and darkening his default color from white to a quick color. Not trying to be you or anything. Just a quick spin and rather rushed. I really should have spent more time on the traps. I actually forgot to morph them. I wish I had more time. lol. (anyone figure out how I can clone myself, let me know!) Just because you haven't seen you fav rendered face or body doesn't meant you can't do it. This is just one of endless faces. Imagine what the right texture would do. That Mike2 face you have didn't come out of the box either.. hehe Know what I mean? You had to take the time to make it. But if you like Mike2 you should use Mike2. I like Mike2. I worked with Michael 2 for years and made tons of clothes for him. But please don't pigeon-hole Apollo's morphs as limited. They really aren't. They also reverse fully. :) Awsome pic btw. HAIL MAXIMUS!!!!!!!! :)

Dang, Anton, can I get HIS number, too? :D

1-800-NOW-RDNA!! lol PS: Welcome aboard!

Apollo ain't cheap (fifty bucks is fifty bucks whichever way you look at it), but I think it's a good value. You get a lot for that fifty bucks. I'm still trying to decide exactly how much I like AMax. He's a good figure from what I've seen so far, but I absolutely HATE his default look. That's not to take anything away from the work Anton's done. Like he said himself, taste is subjective. Ironically given that people in the past have complained about the Mike or Vicki "look" I've found that 90% of AMax renders I've seen so far have what I would term the "Apollo look" to them (it does seem to take quite a bit of effort and unlearning/relearning to get away from that). But the few different ones I've seen have been substantially different. And that gives me hope.

Now I just have to wait for the RDNA folks to approve my payment. And then I can download what I imagine is a very LARGE file. On a 56 k connection. WHEEE! :D (Anton's not the only one who's had too much caffiene today!)

Hey we all know what we paid for V3. I certainly remeber what we paid for M2. And you don't even want to know what I paid for the original Muscleman. The default look is exactly that. Defeault as in Neutral, as in indifferent, as in a base, something to start with, etc. Know what I mean? Now mind you, this is also Apollo. I could just keep dial-spin morphing the base into variant derivatives.. Let's see... I can do three and sell them all for the slightly less, sell the same morphs seperately, reuse the skinsuit three times, change the uv's enough so people need new maps, reuse all the morphs clothes, etc and get people to buy the same files three times. lol I just think it is funny Apollo is the figure some are skeptical about. Ok. hehe I'm going to bed. i am exhausted. Long day today. Night all! The caffine finally wore off.

Nice to see he does teen characters well. Wonder how he does effeminite boi types... Mwhehehehe... Sleep well, Anton. :)

Maximus looks so awesome! I'm eagerly wawaiting the end of this month so I can get some money and buy him. And he's CHEAP (at least at the sale price) because LOOK at what you GET: Character PLUS morphs PLUS bodysuit PLUS textures! Now ass up what Mike3 (or David) cost when they were out. And remember to put bodysuit and textures and morphs in that package too. All of a sudden, AM is CHEAP! DANG I just wish I had more than those measly $34 on my paypal right now looks impatiently @ calendar Khrys: If anyone can morph him into a bishi boi, it's you :o)

ass up, ernyoka1? lol Did you mean "add up"? hehe Your typos are better than mine, though mine are more frequest...er frequent :)

laughs Hmm. David, ass up. Don't mind if I do!

wow just found him he is nice