Hey, Khrys, are you going to create a Ganymede character for Apollo ?

laughs Maybe, Math. I've just gotten my download started. Does this mean there's an interest in a Ganymede like character for Apollo?

Khrys, I would be very interested in a Ganymede character for him :-)

I agree AMax is a great figure, I have a few plans for him in the works. I am not worried about replacing M3 (or moreso david), they are simply different figures, which can build different looks. I appreciate the variety and think they all shall work well together. Rawn

I haven't been online for 3 days 'cos I've had Apollo Max for 3 days. He is a spectacular male model and although it does take time to learn how to use him it is very worth while. The first attempt I had with him didn't please me at all. I thought I was not going to be able to do anything with him, but, after a couple of days of twirling dials, I discovered it is so easy to get the character you are looking for, and what amazing characters he can be. I love David and Hiro but AM is even better than them and I don't think I'll be playing as much with the Mil figures any more. If you are going to create a miss Max Anton I will most definately be buying her too. After all he really neads a good woman to in his life........mother, wife, whatever. 8) Thank you Anton for this excellent figure, I'm so pleased he's finally arrived. 8) Catlin

My top three male figures:

1. Max (ApolloMaximus)
2. David
3. M2

Because of the extra body parts and the way he was rigged - Max poses much nicer then David & M2, which means less postwork on cracked joints and bulging or indented muscles and body parts ;) lol

RDNA supports their products so there's not a doubt in my mind there will be clothing and more skin textures for him. For now I've got WW - so I've got Max covered ;) And while I may not be able to create a seamless skin texture from scratch, I certainly know how to alter a pre-existing one and the included skin texture is a nice base to work with.

He needs more head morphs - but I say that about every figure I've ever purchased. lol

I've started playing around with displacement mapping veins, wrinkles and muscles in P5 - and my attempts have been pretty promising, hoping I'll inspire a talented pixel pusher to do better though.

I'm tired of hearing people bitch about his price. You get the figure, the head and body morphs, a high-res skin texture, a cat suit and a hair/beard figure for $50 bucks.

I paid $78 bucks for Vicky 1, and that was for just a figure and morphs from what I recall. I paid $29.95 to upgrade to Vicky 2 which wasn't even a new mesh, just some additional morphs and perhaps some joint tweaks. $42.20 to Upgrade to V3 - figure, head & body morphs and a high-res texture and I believe those were discounted prices because I was part of the Platinum Club (which I only joined btw because I was finally going to be able to purchase all the Anton goodies at DAZ I had been drooling over for a long time lol).

I can't remember what I paid for Mike 1 but I know he was naked, bald and skinless for a couple of months after purchasing him I was so broke ;) lol Upgrading to Mike 2 was $27.96, again just some additional morphs and perhaps joint tweaks. $36.66 (PC discounted) to upgrade to Mike3, figure, head & body morphs, didn't buy a skin tex that time around, bought UTC instead ;) lol M3 was a bit of a disappointment to me but I got Steph Petite ($15.70 for head and body morphs - PC discount) and the Freak ($12.23 for morphs & maps - PC discount) out of the deal so I didn't complain too loudly.

I got the complete David bundle for $48.98 - figure, head & body morphs, standard res tex map, clothing pack and hair). David was worth it even if he was just a re-worked M3 mesh with better JPs. lol David has not been supported too well as far as clothing is concerned but I've now got him covered with WW as well.

$50 for an innovative mesh is reasonable as far as I'm concerned.

Jade, it's hardly bitching, it's a valid worry. A lot of us HAVE been bitten in the ass by new figures promising lots of wonderful things that they just can't do. (Renda, for example, to use a recent one.) I know I felt horribly let down when I first got M3 (which is why I started supporting the character with add ons, later.) For a lot of us, 50$ is a substantial investment, for not having a demo to play with. When something's in pieces like V3 was, you can buy them as you need. Also, Daz3d has the benefit of a 30 day no questions asked money back guarentee. If you don't like it, you don't have to explain why or even have a good reason. Am I saying Apollo was a bad value? I don't know yet, I'm still downloading and it may take me a while to decide, either way. From what I've seen, he looks like a good investment. (Considering I've had five or six people ask me already when I'd be making a pretty boy set for him, I think it's a good sign.) And yes, David and Hiro are both WONDERFUL figures, poorly supported by the community. Half the time, when David does get support, it's either too expensive to buy or too low quality. And actually, David wasn't a reworking of M3's mesh. He was a reworking of Steph Petite's mesh that started, IIRC, as a male morph pack for her and bloomed into a full on male figure that is wonderful and whom I love. :D

*randym77,

Who you callin' effeminate?*

OMG! That looks just like my Aunt Patsy!

;-)

Been playing with Apollo for about twenty or so minutes now, give or take. So far, so good. His zeroed pose threw me, a little. I thought he was wanting a hug. But now I see why he was positioned like this, it makes sense. Every time, so far, I've thought 'Well, he should have x morph', I scroll up or down, and there it is. He looks good in default, and with a little tweaking, I'll be able to produce good morphs (Which is not to say that his existing morphs aren't good, they ARE good.) He scales like a dream come true, so far. I've always had a problem with the way necks are set up on Poser figures, not easily allowing us to lengthen the neck for more graceful proportions. No such problem with Apollo. I know I've gotten my money's worth. He's a good investment. :)

My biggest concern is that with his altered default pose and 'different' part names, I apparantly can't use BVH files with him. Keyframe animation can be tedious, and when possible I'd love to have the option to use BVH files. I don't suppose a low rez version that's BVH compatible will ever be available? Or maybe it's possible to create alternate rigs and one could be set up for animation. Hmmm. That's an interesting thought. Can rigging be saved and transferred from figure to figure? I've never heard of that and have no idea...

Actually there is no postwork in my render except a tiny white
highlight each eyeball this is rendered in maxon cinema4DXL 8.5
via the free interposer plugin
the sparse head hair and tattoo is my custom map added to the original DAZ M2 hi-res textures
and the chest hair was grown in C4D
the skin was augmented at rendertime by a C4D skinshader called "Chanlum".

your quicky here is the best ive seen so far Anton, you are the Master!!!!
I would REALLY be impressed if someone could make Apollo look like actors "Danny glover" or "wesley snipes" or hardcore rapper "50Cent"

And as Bobasaur mentioned his lack of compatibility with my vast LIBRARY of BVH files is a major drawback also. So right now im going to splurge on Philc's WW
and get my clone outfited for some exciting new animation work.
thanks for your input Anton and congrats on this release. :-)

Message edited on: 06/23/2005 12:46

wolf359 .... Be prepared to do JP work on the converted outfits. For animation the action may go fast enough not to be noticeable. For stills though, a lot of work and I still haven't gotten what I call a totally satisfactory result. Yes, I'm picky.

I'm going to stand by my previous comments about Apollo not being a "cheap" figure. But I also stand by my statement that it is a good VALUE. And FWIW I believe the figure is WORTH the price tag. Anton said: "The default look is exactly that. Defeault as in Neutral, as in indifferent, as in a base, something to start with, etc." Yep, I know. Which is why I didn't let his default look stop me from buying Apollo when he was released. It looks like you've got a big hit on your hands Anton, and I'd say you deserve it. Definitely consider me part of the group that anxiously awaits the release of Apollo's counterpart figure next year.

wolf359 .... Be prepared to do JP work on the converted outfits. For animation the action may go fast enough not to be noticeable. For stills though, a lot of work and I still haven't gotten what I call a totally satisfactory result. Yes, I'm picky.<<< Joint parameter work ???!! does the WW program com with instruction how to do this??? I only plan on converting from V3 to V2 and M3 to M2 how much "correcting" are we taking here.....sigh!!

Ah, converting to those figures, not much if any, depending on clothes and figures used. Yes there is a video included that covers the JP's. View it.. very helpful. I took your post to mean you were going to convert to Apollo. Jackets, shirts or other that encompass the arms require JP correction. I haven't mentioned his splayed feet. One area at a time. WW will be a big help for what you just mentioned.

wolf359 - WW comes with a video tutorial on how to tweak clothing JPs and there's always a lot of help and support at the Yahoo groups when having a problem converting a particular outfit.

Well Apollo wins hands down for me! You not only get apollo but no one mentions that he has clothing when you get him! They say skin suits, but they have morphs to loosen the legs and stuff so they aren't skin tight! Thats a plus right there, as you needen't worry about him running nekkid! And he comes with a great texture map.Not to mention the beards. Thought I would just mention this because for the price, your getting more than just a figure! And a Damn good figure I might add! And if anyone hasn't seen yet poserworld is already supporting him! Besides a space suit, I just saw where Steve posted a Cop suit for him and he makes a handsome looking cop!

On to PoserWorld to pillage! Avaunt! :)

I would REALLY be impressed if someone could make Apollo look like actors "Danny glover" or "wesley snipes" or hardcore rapper "50Cent"

Ooh, me, too.

And is there a decent Asian morph?

Xurge just made armor for him too, it looks great and is on sale at his site too (www.xurge3d.com). I hope the support keeps on coming and we start seeing some third-party textures too. :) SnowS

I think apollo looks yummie just the way he is comming out of the box. I have not had a chance to buy him yet. I'm fighting the bank over a 33.00 service charge at the moment They better beware us gay guys have the art of being bitchy down to a science. LOL. Brad.

randym77 askied "And is there a decent Asian morph?" The selection is actually quite broad; there are a LOT of options when it comes to spinning the dials. This can be both good and bad depending on your point of view.

To clarify my above post: With Apollo, t's not so much a question of "is there a good (insert favorite) morph?" as it is "can I find a good combintion of dial spins to create the look I'm after?"

This is what makes Apollo very powerful and versatile IMO but at the same time makes him kind of daunting.

Message edited on: 06/23/2005 17:12

But it's good to learn new things :) hehehehe...I do really like the fact that he has very few canned morphs, it's like you spin dial and you never know what you are going to come up with :) And they also work just as well in reverse :) I do have the beginnings of a list of morphs for the head that I would like to see, going to start on a body list soon too :) Just like shoes, you can never have too many morphs!!

I highly recommed Apollo & look forward to Antons female model..I'll snatch it up as soon as it is released. Outstanding model & innovation IMHO. BRAVO!

I love that face. hehehe.

Regarding Wardrobe WIzard. It is a testimant to how great the program works that any Mil clothing can be converted to Apollo by easily clicking buttons.

AS I always said, I bet the horse could be done too. Apollo is so very different than any of the other figures.

It is just common sense that similar, cut, posed figures convert easier to each other.

Apollo on the other hand is , being a new figure design, in a different pose and has new bodyparts. Personally I never thought a conversion could be done to such a different rig period. Just goes to show how geart Wardrobe Wizard is to work with such different styles of figure design.

I think Phil should try to add the horse just for fun and to gag the naysayers. hehehe. I think WW is the best Poser Clothing Utility to ever exist.

Message edited on: 06/23/2005 22:05

Unfortunately, Apollo's Asian morphs don't seem to be authentic. The eyelids just get smoothed over. I'll be working on some morphs for that, as well. :)

There are no specific morphs or dials called "asian". All shaping morphs. The ethnic dials are not specifically asain.

These are the relevant dials to play with

BrdgRaise
BrdgWide1 Space between eyes to forehead in/out
BrdgWide2 Space between eyes to forehead in/out
BrdgWide3 Space between eyes to forehead in/out
BrowSharp
Browbone1
Browbone2
Browbonee3
EyeCrease
EyeCube makes sockets round or square
EyeEthnic1 2 styles
EyeEthnic2 2 styles
EyeEthnic3 2 styles
EyeRotX axis rotation
EyeRotY axis rotation
EyeRotZ axis rotation
EyeSz1 scaling morph
EyeSz2 scaling morph
EyeSz3 scaling morph
HdEthnic1 2 variations
HdEthnic2 2 variations
HdEthnic3 2 variations
LidsHeavy
LidsHooded

Message edited on: 06/23/2005 22:36

Post an image?

who me? of what?

You or Khrys. Of an Asian face.

Khrys says he's having trouble. Maybe if he posted his effort, you could make suggestions.

Or you could show us how it's done. :-)

The asian face above uses 2 dozen or so morphs. I reset each on to it's exact opposite value whatever it is and this is the reverse face.

Fun stuff. It is difficult to try and explain to people who doubt every word, but I really did put alot of complex thought into this figure.

This type of effort isn't going to be found in other figures.

Message edited on: 06/24/2005 06:08

Lashes are off in both pics.

Hmmm. I see what Khrys means about the eyelids.

The only thing that really bugs me about DAZ's figures, and every other figure I've tried, is the lack of good ethnic morphs. DAZ has some that look nice, particularly in their International Beauties package...but they only look nice if you leave the face in neutral. Try to show some expression, and it looks awful. Either ugly and unnatural, or downright scary (teeth protruding from the cheek, etc.). Maybe it's just not possible to make expressive ethnic faces if the mesh was modelled as Caucasian.

shakes his head and goes back to work

Sorry, meant no disrespect. This is just my pet peeve; bugs me a lot more than bending or "exploding butt syndrome." I do appreciate the time you took to post the images.

I'll work on an epicanthic fold morph or two for him. The problem is that most of the older meshes were completely unable to handle an Asian eye shape, due in part to low polycount. Apollo Maximus shouldn't have a problem with it, since his eyes are nice and hi res. :)

Sound good Khrys. Be fun to see what you come up with.

hehehe - I have Morph Randomizer too and was playing with it last night with Max's head morphs. Some of the faces it came up with were very funny! lol As I went through the faces it generated, I was struck by how expressive his face is even without using any of the expression morphs. Was also surprised sometimes at the particular combination of morphs that was used to generate the face. Gave me a better idea of what each morph does and how they combine together. Let's face it - I've been using Zygote/DAZ figures for four or five years now. I'm used to their morphs and their naming conventions for morphs. I pretty much know what a particular morph is going to do and how it combines with the other morphs to shape the character that I want. It's going to take a bit for me to get used to Max's morphs and how their named and how they work together. But the more I spin, the more impressed I am with this figure. The assymmetry morphs rock! lol

I like Randomizer. I had forgottent hat I had it. And some of the faces you get are just soo hysterical.

This thread convinced me. I have a handful of DAZ guys, and I've never, ever, used any of them because they all look like Aryan morons with family values. I stuck with the vaguely Mediterranean P5 guy until James appeared, using the Face Room to generate faces that don't look like they came off Reich military posters. The publicity shot of AMax put me off a bit, because it's so obviously gay that I worried that all I'd be getting is a boy toy. This thread settled my worries -- tremendous diversity, and a design based on anatomy, not "the white norm". And Anton's REVERSE MORPH demo clinched the deal. I've struggled with -dials since V1 to try to get some variety into their "Cosmo with family values" homogeneousness. (What I love about Steph is her "plainness.") It may not be obvious what a -Asian face should look like, but doesn't take rocket science to figure out that the reverse of Big_Boob_17 ought to look something like a normal chest. (What kind of family values give you seventeen breast enhancers and no way to put a bump in the nose?) Thank you, Anton. Buying at RDNA as I write. Now if someone could just get the Yamato gang interested in turning Jessi from wonderful statuary into a real girl.... (High hopes for the Netherworks Morph Pack, which I picked up yesterday, but still no nipples, and her chest is still one body part. Sigh. Teach me to complain about breast enhancers.) M

That is incerdible. Add some ramdom skin tone changes and you have a whole bunch of unique looking characters. And hair, of course. Hmm. I wonder if anyone has tried Kozaburo's Rei hair on him,,, [Can you say "Emo Phillips" - grin]

I have always admired Anton's talent. With the release of Max, I think the pedestal that I've got him on has gotten quite a bit higher. If I had one tenth his magic, skill, and smarts, I'd be a happy camper. 8-D He's also a LOT of fun to talk to (hehehehe - Anton, not Max!)

That face is cool. Very Dicken's was my thought. hehe Thanks Deecey. No no no no pedestal. lol. Too kind really.

I'll work on an epicanthic fold morph or two for him. The problem is that most of the older meshes were completely unable to handle an Asian eye shape, due in part to low polycount. Apollo Maximus shouldn't have a problem with it, since his eyes are nice and hi res. :)

That would be great. I love your Xie character, especially the eyelid morphs.

Do you think you'll be able to get an authentic Asian look for Apollo, while maintaining expressiveness? That is something I've never seen with the DAZ figures. It's either/or. A fake ethnic look, or a genuine ethnic look with very limited facial expression.

I have talked about the evils of morph recycling a lot latley. And what you have encountered in expressions is a symptom of it. When you use morph to make new morphs and faces they become less compatible when they encounter themselves again. For instance. Take Stephanie Petite. When they changed her face and those chnages filtered down the V3 morph list a lot of eye morphs were lost because the very movements that went into the base face were magnified when the morphs updated. That is why the inner sockets lift away fromt the eye. Reusing morphs is like making a clone of a clone of a clone. Over time they degrade and become less and less usable. Each morph is made based on the original shape they were created for. So as the base changes, the morph comphensation doesn't always jive with the new head. Every figure needs to have a completely fresh and unrecycled morph set. Lets tak an asian face for instance. Lets say you dial up an asian face for Vicki and raise her eyebrows way up. Then you make Amiko5 from that morph. Well the old morphs will double anytime it encounters asian features or lifted brows from the morph list. This is why morph lists are growing smaller than they used to be. They are degrading to the point of slowly becoming unsuable. Not that is isn't fun or pretty to use dialed morphs for new heads and faces. But a professional character must have all unique morphs, each done from scartch to avoid compounding. After all faces are made.. only then are expression morphs done to ensure compatibilty at extreme ranges. I don't know if that makes sense but that is my opinion.