Aye, well Ang I fear I have misrepresented myself then. I DO have emotions, and they cover a wide spectrum, all the way from anger to pure rage. I am, and have admitted this before, "damaged goods". War, death, and terror have been a commonplace occurance in my life, in many of the places I've called home. I was born in Korea, of all places... But that doesn't mean I don't empathize. I really don't wish MORE pain on anyone, and I had high hopes that other countries including Britain wouldn't be dragged into the mess that this nation I live by currently (USA) has perpetuated, in my opinion of course... But no more politics? I hope the survivors heal quickly, and Peace will settle in again in Britain, and everwhere. Just because I am a force for Evil on this planet doesn't mean I'm necessarily malevolent. Evil backwards is Live. And what could be more ultimately evil than humanity surviving and flourishing?

"These characters always think they know better than the rest of us and when someone differs with their opinion, they curl their lips like wild hyenas and come at you with bullsh*t jingoistic rhetoric" Aye, Quest. A bit too much mirroring going on here. Take a good look at your hatred, your scorn, and the energy you put into insulting me. How, then, are you any different from the "terrorists" then? Well, they act. You just type a lot.

You really dont have the slightest idea of what youre talking about. You just dont have a clue! Youre just here to perpetuate foolishnessand still you continue with politics. Is this too much for you? Has it gone over your headyet again? Lets keep it to a simple theorem that even you could understand: if you have nothing to good to say, then dont say anything at all!

Message edited on: 07/10/2005 20:27

sigh...

FWIW, I'm truly sorry for every single person who was lost, and absolutely relieved that your families are all accounted for. Terrorist attacks on civilian targets are sick and twisted. And I pity anyone who can't empathize with the victims. btw, I'm not a Christian or a member of any other organized religion, and I voted for Kerry. ;-)

Hey quest when do start to look in the mirror. And look at the person staring back at you, how he acts, what he says and write in regard to other people on this forum and in general. BTW: today its 10 years ago, Sebrenica. There are still people in this world walking around who knew and made a deal.

Ye gods! You people! If you wish to make personal attacks against each other this is not the place, by any means. If you can't be civil, take it outside.

All is politics, you cannot escape from politics, your life is commanded by politics, without politicians there would not be terrorists neither people killed here and there.

Aye, "politics" stems from the root "polite". Which is an amazing concept, considering there's nothing polite about politics at all. No more beef between me and you, Quest? You got it. I think you're an amazing artist, regardless of our "political" differences. I don't mind having my intelligence insulted on occasion, it's the only thing on Earth that helps to keep my ridiculous ego under any sort of control. But in the spirit of perspective, I'll refrain from being even MORE obnoxious and unorthodox, and just give everyone interested something to ponder for a bit : "I know the evil of my ancestors because I am those people. The balance is delicate in the extreme. I know that few of you who read my words have ever thought about your ancestors this way. It has not occurred to you that your ancestors were survivors and that survival itself sometimes involved savage decisions, a kind of wanton brutality which civilized humankind works very hard to suppress. What price will you pay for that suppression? Will you accept you own extinction?" --The Stolen Journals (Frank Herbert, "God-Emperor of Dune")

"politics" stems from the root "polite". LSD: State your sources.....

My condolences and prayers to the people of London. May justice be swift. Politics is from the Greek root Politikos, meaning: of citizen or of state. Polite is from the Latin root Politus, meaning: refined or elegant. The etymology of both words are different. My Story: Having been a soldier in the Canadian Armed forces, I was stationed in the West Bank and the Golan Heights in 1979 with the UN 2nd Emergency force. I was 17 at the time. My job essentially was to convoy garbage from the town of Nabulos in the West Bank to the port of Elaf on the Gulf of Aqaba. At that time, UN soldiers carried rifles (mine was a FN C1 7.62 mm of Belgian manufacture) we were not permitted to have ammunition. But we still carried our weapons as if we did. Howerver, both the Palestinians and Isrealis new the UN peacekeepers were essentially unarmed. Palestinian children used to follow our truck and jump in the back to rummage thru the garbage for anything of value. The streets were very narrow and we had to travel slowly, so it was easy for the kids to jump onto our vehicle. At first I used to kick them off, but they were so persistent that after a few days of this, you tend to give a blind eye to it. To make a long story short, one day someone threw a grenade into the back of our truck (at least I think it was a grenade). The blast from a grenade is nothing like you see in the movies. Its very quick, with very little smoke and no fire, and a whole lot of shrapnel. I was slumping in my seat, so I wasn't hit by any shrapnel. My driver, lost his right ear. I couldn't hear anything, due to the blast, so the screaming of the kids that were in the back went unnoticed to me for a while. But when I finally gathered myself, I was sickened to see the shrapnel-torn bodies of the young Palestinian children. Two were dead, one would die on the way to the hospital but two others survived. The Palestinians blamed us, for they thought we were secretly transporting live explosives hidden in the garbage. We were quickly surrounded by an angry mob. Since we were essentially unarmed, we were at the mercy of the crowd. Luckily, an Isreali patrol happened by and proceeded to extricate us from our peril by shooting two aggressive young Palestinian men. I was further sickened by that. I thought it was unnecessary. At any rate the crowd dispersed. I stayed on for a few more days, but fell into a deep depression. Our base chaplain, a dutch colonel, saw my condition and had me transferred to a calmer peacekeeping mission in Cyprus whereby I pretty much stayed in a state of constant inebriation. My apologies to any Cypriots here, but I did not get to know your island at all. I've seen death and destruction up close. And I express genuine sympathy to the families of those Londoners who will never see their loved ones alive again. I feel the same towards all those who have lost their lives in Iraq, the Balkans and any number of African nations who are in a perpetual state of civil war. @LSD; I do not comprehend your callousness towards those who express sympathies towards the recent tragedy in London. My only thought is that you must be very young and idealistic. But your idealism is pointed in the wrong direction. And quoting a passage from a pulp fiction writer like Frank Herbert only reveals your immaturity. You may as well have quoted Luke Skywalker or Captain James T. Kirk. One day, when you mature, you'll look back on your youthful folly with a smile but also with a little embarassment. If you are not young, then I feel sorry for you my friend. May you be spared such tragedy in your life.

@ quest, Thanks for the clearification. Perhaps next time I should read through all the posts before I post to keep clear where Im jumping in (this is a bad habit of mine) I can simpathize with many of the older artists and there view. Ive been a member here for about 2 yrs now. Have seen more than enough of these ppl come here stir up this kind of unrest among those here that wish to help the newer artist learn and develope. And under normal cercumstances I would leave this be. I tend to walk the shadows of these forms but LSD your retoric has even brought me out to the light of day. LSD you need to mature ALOT to make the statemnets you've made because your timeing and choice of words needs ALOT of refinement. You made a qoute I think hoping to sound wise. But your underestimating the inteligence and maturity of the ppl you address. I HAVE thought long and hard of my ancestors. Our tribes did many things that seemed barbaric to use your terms, the Lacota would cut 100 squares of flesh from there own arms or legs to morn the loss of a loved one for example. But Thats how things were done then. (side note: we NEVER had holy wars or a war over simple opinion. We would fight for servival of the trib for food or shelter). I have to agree with Bandolin, and not to sound redundant, I think you have not pondered at proper deepth (sp? sorry dislexias kickin in) that wich you are trying to qoute. IF so you would not have choosin to pick this form at this time to voice these thoughts. all good intentions aside.

My heartfelt condolences to the people of [fill in name of country or city of choice ....] *for their losses and injuries in this recent savage and cowardly act of mass murder and indiscriminate slaughter of the innocents. This act, like so many others that they have committed only serves to illustrate the malevolence and contempt this low-life segment of the world holds for a decent humanity. It is my hope that this criminal act shall not go unpunished.*Better....

Because there is a list of countries and places that people don't want to know about...

Will someone please lock this thread !?

Hmmmm I dont seem to be able to edit to add this so I post again as it was intended to go with the origonal post. For the loved ones lost and there familys: Donadagohvi, AiSv Nvwadohiyado, Ahwen'sa Unaliyi. (Till next we meet, Walk in peace, For we are all related)

Redfeather, Im glad that I was able to clarified for you. I have a deep respect for the Native American.

Bandolin, thank you for sharing this episode of your life with us, I was moved by it, the sight of death never comes easy, especially wanton murder. Youre etymology of the word politics is spot on, thanks for that as well. On a lighter side heres another etymology for the word that I found:

The word 'politics' comes from the Greek 'poly' meaning 'many', and 'tics' of course are bloodsucking parasites.

-- 1992 Libertarian presidential candidate Andre Marrou

Kawecki, theres a time and place for everything including politics.

Robertj, let us know when you grow up and find a brain of your own.

Why thank you.

But Politics is derived from the Greek word for Citystate, "Polis", politics date back from transformation of human society that took place around 6000 BCE as an urban revolution, its around that time that cities, institutionalization of social stratification, non-agricultural specialised crafts (including priests and lawyers), taxation, and writing came to be. All wich require a densely populated area like a city.

No matter the origin of the word "politics", if the original intention was good or not. Today are the politicians that decide to bomb an adobe hut or to bomb a sub, and when is the time or place for politics is their decission too, you only are allowed to dance their music, if still alive.

Since nobody closed this thread yet: My (funny, ludicrous) theory is that Intelligence and Wisdom are a cosmic Constanct. There is a fix amount since the origin of the universe, and it's shared between all people. Now, since human genre has increased dramatically during last century, this means that average Intelligence and Wisdom tend to zero. This can explain a lot of passive and lemminglike behaviour of many people. Every act is a political act in a complex society. What you choose to wear, what you eat... architecture is a political act (remember 9/11). To choose to make condolences for the victims of last tragedy in the UK is a political act, even if you don't notice this. And it's right to feel empathy for all those people, innocent or not. But, some far play please! I like that LSD remebered the Iraqi victims, even if I don't agree how he did this. I know, what happened in UK was close to many of us. For this reason we feel empathy: we could have been there. But what happens on the other side of the world in forgotten countries is not less important and dramatic. We sould remember all the victims of all countries plagued by war. The victims of indifference. The victims of stupidity. Or, all the victims of pollution or traffic: it's incredible! every day thousands of people near us die by pollution, traffic, stress and we don't notice it. If mr.President could make a war against pollution... no victims, only saved people. He could be a dazzling example for all the world and rule the world without the use of military power. Democracy is another word that stems from greek: govern of people. Who votes, decides. Politicians make what they want? People want peace, but politicians not? Wait, who voted them? We - this means that [1] my above theory is true, we've become a mass of brainless individuals and can't choose leaders who think the same as we. [2] we can understand who we vote and, in this case, we are a mass of hypocrite individuals [3] the so called democracy has some gaps. Sure it's better than a brutal tyranny. We need to care our democracy - every public act, like writing in a 3d forum is a political act too.

Well, like has been said, since this thread is still open,..............to say that every act of human decency is a political act is just plain nonsense,.......retorhical justification. Conflict is a fact of human nature,.......maybe even human evolution. Oh that it were not so,.......but things are the way they are or else they'd be different. As far as democracy,........I like what Winston Churchill said,...."Democracy is the worst form of goverment,.......except for all the rest". And as a matter of fact the U.S. is not a democracy,........it's a constitutional repulic.

A choice not made is still a choice. A warriors heart will not let him live on his knees but die on his feet. Faceing the enemy with honor. This is a choice though it can diguise itself very cleverly as not choosing. But in the act of not choosing, you choose anyway, to live on your knees and die with out honor bringing shame to your house(family,trib,country). I am not sure I put this so it applies easily to the conversation. However in an effort to clearify look at it like this since the conversation has turned to politics: To vote someone into office or follow someone with without thought(liveing on your knees) before doing your "homework"(liveing on your feet) you risk empowering someone who doesnt act honorably, bringing shame to his house (family,trib,country). To follow without questions this leader is to bring that same shame to your house.

Latest....looks like the bombers were of the suicide variety - and Brits at that. And they've made a 'significant' arrest.

Well, it seems the inmates have overrun the asylum, and more idiocy spills. I guess some people just like to hear themselves rant. Not for any particular reason but just to make noise, irregardless whether or not there is any sense or truth in the rant. Like bobbleheads set in motion on rough terrain they follow each other like lemmings giving lip service to each other and padding themselves on the back reinforcing their collective stupidities. With no real construct they disseminate their flawed, unsubstantiated disinformation simply because its their new found fad, because its popular at the moment and everyone is doing itlike a new style, a haircut or the new tattoo in town. Instead of finding the intended subject matter what you find is words taken out of context, innuendos, hearsay and conspiracy theories meandering on ad infinitum with nothing substantial. People led astray by the wool that has been carefully knitted and placed over their eyes. The truth contorted and skewed out of proportion set to the rhythm of pitched utopian idealism and rosy pink sunglasses. If I had wanted this to be a discussion on politics, what I would have said would really have toasted some asses. And it all would have been substantiated with plenty of dated and reliable references and sources, something which is strangely lacking in this gathering and many others throughout the Internet. Bryster, Ive been following the developments and am pleased by the swiftness with which this investigation is proceeding. I hear they have one arrest already. Maybe well find out who put this idiot up to this travesty and follow through with justice.

Osiyo Quest, dohiyi (peace) brother. I have to agree with you. this is not the place to discuse politics. may I sugjest to those who wish to continue this discusion along those lines to start a new thread? This had started out to be an outpouring of true empathy, and turned to something of a quite distorted distant shadow of the origonal topic. I am just as guilty as the last for perpetuating said topic but I have seriously been feeling this is no longer the what it was intended to be. the way it was reported on the news here was 1 important arrest, 2 of the individuals died in the bombing one was unacounted for. This being the most encoraging information as some stations have the details muddled, saying there were 3 dead and 1 arrest(as far as my local news has it). Is that what there saying there?

Message edited on: 07/13/2005 00:41

4 guys met at Kings Cross. It is supposed that they died with their bombs. One arrest has been made. Several 'controlled' explosions in/around Luton. One bomber came from Leeds - was only discovered when his family reported him missing.