I did this in P4 with a reflection map and it looks like it's made of metal. But when I open the same file in P6 I can't make it look like metal no matter what I do. I'd appreciate any help...thanks!

Can you post a screenshot of what your material setup in P6 looks like?

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I was working on trying to get something to look metallic in P6. What I wound up doing was taking the clouds node, changing the colors via a color_math node, and plugging it into the reflection color channel. It didn't work out so well, but it was bearable. If anyone has a better suggestion, I would really love to hear it!

It could be that your reflection map is being overshined by a large highlight. Try reducing the highlight size to 0.1, or for sharp glossy highlights, try setting the highlight size to 0.01 and the specular value to 10.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1022221

This is for chrome. But it should work for other types with different image maps applied to the color channel. -ScottA

Here is an image I created in poser 6 using a reflection map (I personally raytrace stuff, but that doesn help you!) about to post Material

and here is the node setup I am using a sphere map of my garage, Ill post another render with a "standard" reflection map (from Baron Vlad Harkonen fantasy wear)

and with BVH's reflection map

And YET again more. Simple Color node changed, and applied to different objects

you've got so may things plugged into so many places that I am totally confused...I don't know what any of them mean...LOL...I have to learn how to plug in 8 things just to make something look like metal?

you dont HAVE to learn anything. the reason there are so many nodes is to simulate the following : the color of the metal effecting the color of the reflection the brightness of the reflections effecting the amount that is reflected viewing straight on has less reflection that glancing reflections on the sides of the metal you DID ask how to make something look like metal! metal does these things

Geez, I didn't mean to offend you...I just assumed (wrongly I guess) that things would be easier in P6 instead of harder...I'll try to look elsewhere....or just use the prop in P4...

you might try that "simple" tab at the top so you dont have to work with all the nodes. I'm kinda in the middle of something so i cant test it out but it has a place to put in "reflection". I've never had p4 but it would seem to be rather equalivent to what little i know of p4.

You didnt offend me at all.

I guess I assumed you wanted a node configuration that was more than simple.. so to make up for my confusing material, here is one, set on the SIMPLE tab

the reflection is a sphere map. depending on the texture you use, you may want to untick object color and/or lights in that reflection box.

Message edited on: 08/04/2005 21:34

"viewing straight on has less reflection that glancing reflections on the sides of the metal" Nice fresnel effect, but it should be pointed out that not all metal has this property. In fact, I can only think of one offhand, and that would be metal that has a glossy "carpaint" material on top of it... or perhaps a "brushed" metal. Chromium, silver, gold, steel, platinum, aluminum, etc. all have standard reflective properties, and shouldn't have fresnel (or glancing) reflections. Your metals look fine, by the way, templargfx. Just pointing out the obvious. ;-)

this is true for real reflection (ie ray-traced) which takes a completely different approach, but other than chrome, using a sphere map looks wrong. the more complex material I did above helps to give more definition to the shape of the object, and aslo makes the "whites" brighter at the edges, simply having the reflection_lite_mult ticked with ray-tracing is engough, but not really enough for sphere maps. well, in my opinion, but then again, I like complex :)

Attached Link: http://www.rdna3d.com/Tutorials/Poser6/Inside01/Inside01.html

Thanks, that's what I posted in the first place. It gives me this flat image with no reflection....myabe I should give up and go with Traveler's material idea.... http://www.rdna3d.com/Tutorials/Poser6/Inside01/Inside01.html

in your node setup image at the top of this thread, you do not have either relfection_lite_mult ticked, or reflection_kd_mult ticked, this will be greatly increasing the bright or washed out look. tick these two options!

that nullifies the reflection map...

ok, first, set your reflection color to WHITE, that gray will be making it quite dark, secondly change your Highlight size to .5 or less. also, try changing your camera angle, render the object from different sides, one thing you may not have considered is that the part of the sphere map that is being rendered on the surface you are looking at may have no details, and therefore, not show up. try applying your material to a sphere, and rendering that the problem with sphere maps is that it "Stretches" it over the surface of the object, flat areas (especially those directly facing the camera) have a small section of the sphere map stretched right across a larger suface, losing the detail (sometimes all of it) from the sphere map. http://stupes.customer.netspace.net.au/templargfx.zip here is zip file with my complex materal above. simply unzip it to your POSER directory. (make sure you use directories) then in material room you should find a materal called templargfxmetal apply this to your object, then under image_map select the imagemap you are using at the moment

Rachel, Try this "quick and dirty" method. Take your Reflection Image and plug it into BOTH the Alternate Diffuse and the Sphere Map. You'll probably have to play with some of the other settings to get the results you want.

Thanks templargfx...I downloaded your zip and put it in the materials folder and applied it. I didn't select an image map because I haven't been using an image map. This is what I got when I rendered it using P4 render...

and this is what I got when I rendered it in default Firefly...

Thanks nakamuram, the quick and dirty method didn't work either...I get the flat look...

bookmark

bookmark This is wonderfully helpful info

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Rachel I had similar problems with disappearing reflection maps when I used certain pieces of Serrge's Louis XV furniture (DAZ) in P6 for the first time. The problem seems to be that P6 gives you not only colour options, but colour value too. With the chair, the diffuse colour was white, the value was 1. In P4, the white material seemed to be treated as a blank canvas onto which the reflection map was projected, but in P6 it seemed to be competing with the reflection map, so I tried a lower value (much lower). Also, Traveller's P4 technique for getting metals to look the same in renders as they do in the preview window doesn't seem to work in P6. Hope this is helpful. Cheers Graham

In poser 6 (not sure about 5) reflections are added ontop of the diffuse colour, so white (which is rgb 255,255,255) cannot have anything added to it but black (which is rgb 0,0,0) will have the biggest effect from the reflection map, as the color of the object is completely dependant on the reflection image (or raytraced reflection). Now this does not mean that having diffuse color of black will give you a chrome effect (unticking reflection_lite_mult and reflection_kd_mult will make it much more like chrome) for a pure reflective (mirror, pure chrome) effect you need to set diffuse to white and then plug the sphere_map (or reflect for raytracing) into the diffuse colour. The image above shows the problem you are having with your reflections. on the left, the 3 object use a sphere map for reflections (like your original material, and the one I made). notice both the sphere and the helmet show the reflections, but the square does not. this is because the square has flat surfaces, and it not rounded in any way, so the sphere map stretches accross the flat surface, losing its details, and hence its reflection. on the right though, we have Ray-Traced reflections, as you can immediately see, there are no issues at all with the reflections. how do we fix this? I hear you cry, well unfortunately, for completely flat surfaces, sphere maps simply ARENT going to cut it! I have been trying for a while now, and there seems to be no way for poser to get even semi decent looking reflections on flat surfaces without using ray-tracing... perhaps someone else knows of a way. Rachel, does the scene you are trying to render with this object in it have any other props/figures/scenery with it?

Works for me.

I can get it it to do that too, but it looks more like its textured than reflecting dont you think?

No, I was only trying to render the porthole front faced...and I agree, the image in post 31 doesn't look like it is made of metal at all....looks more like marble than metal....and not a very good marble at that..

well, I think your only option is to use real ray-tracing. do you have any sky domes? if not, I will whip you up one with a freebie image off the internet. you can then place this dome in the scene, and it will surround everything, and then be reflected by your port hole cover thing

"well, I think your only option is to use real ray-tracing." Or use a reflect image that was meant for planar mapping.

poser can do planar mapping?

I think Poser does planar by default. The reason the reflect maps in post 31 didn't look too good seems to be because that reflection image isn't really meant for planar or box mapping (most aren't). Raytrace is indeed the best solution. However, I know there's some acceptable reflect maps that are used on water planes in other apps, so they ARE out there. Basically they seem to be simple blurred images of a sky and land mapped to a plane. However, they're only effective if there's some bump on the plane's surface to break up the specularity a bit. There's really no such thing as a perfectly smooth flat surface in the real world. Even if it takes looking under a magnifying glass, you'd see some imperfections in every surface known to man. This helps light react with the surface as we see it with our eyes. In 3D, obviously, these minute details make the big difference in something that looks photorealistic or fake to our trained eye. Objects could never be as detailed as they actually are in the real world, so we must fake some things. If your suface MUST remain perfectly smooth, then I see no other alternative but to use raytraced reflections as was suggested. If you can afford to put some kind of bump on the surface, however... you might not need much more than some anisotroptic specularity and a simple blurred gradient reflect map to fake the effect.

For example, here's a standard plane shape with a gold-ish reflect map applied directly to the reflect channel. Not so impressive at all. Not even a hint that the surface is metallic really.

Now here's the same shape and map with just a hint of noise applied to the flat surface. Now it's looking at least somewhat like a metallic surface. Not perfect, but you get the idea.

Here - this is probably a better example. Here's a reflection mapped plane again. Perfectly flat. Sorta looks metallic, but it's not quite convincing enough.

Message edited on: 08/05/2005 23:43

Add a bump map, and you really start to see the intended effect much clearer.

Houston We have a problem. ;-) I was just showing templargfx that it was possible to use sphere maps on all types of objects. The scale setting will change the way it looks. But it's definately not impossible. A texture map applied to the reflection channel in P4 simulates colors and shapes from the world around it. Templargfx's examples uses a method to make nice metalic like reflective surfaces. But there aren't any surface variations in it. So it's plain looking. If you put it in a room. The reflections would show up and it would look more like Rachel's P4 image. Maxxmodelz images above show a procedure where he's trying to simulate the outside world with an image map. Like Rachel's P4 model is set up. So my question for Rachel is this: Do you want a simulated metal surface that uses an image map for making it look like it's reflecting something that isn't really there like it works in P4? Or do not care about that and just want a convincing type of shine from the surface?

One important factor... Shiny metallic objects will look totally flat if there's nothing in the scene to reflect. At best, you'll have a highlight from the workspace lights bouncing off it but that's all. Poser can't guess what the object is supposed to be reflecting, so in the absence of something to reflect you'll get... nothing. Adding an environment map (suited to your scene) will greatly enhance the appearance of your metals. I don't recommend adding an environment map everything, though. Use with discretion.

"just want a convincing type of shine from the surface?" and I don't care how it gets it as long as it's not too complicated...LOL

Another approach is if you really like the way P4 fakes metal reflections. Then you could use it to make a texture map for your prop in P6. I don't have your prop. I made one of my own. And it's not exactly like yours. But what I did is use your P4 image as an image map. I plugged it into both the color channel and refelction channels and played with the amounts of shinyness. In order to line up the texture with the prop. I set the UV option to "clamped". Then adjusted the offset numbers to line it up with the prop. Just another option you might like to try. -ScottA