Renderosity Forums / Bryce
Welcome to the Bryce Forum
Forum Moderators: TheBryster
Bryce F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2025 Jan 04 3:16 am)
Subject: Pan and Zoom troubles
OK. Thanks guys. The other guy who is joining me in bitching about this says he has tried it on 5 totally (as in old, new, different OSs etc) different machines, and had the same trouble with every one. If I could.... I use Director's View. This is where the trouble seems worse. I was told (by Brycetech no less. The dragon stirs in its realm)that the Zoom controls were not meant for the Director's View....mmmmOK. I use an NVidia 5200 card. Win XP SP2. Intel Celeron 2.4. Bryce is set up at 1024*768 as is the screen. To try to repeat the problem, place a cube on screen, on ground default spot. Move it to TLHC of screen by dragging the cube. Pan the image to make it central again. Now "+" zoom in. For me, quite often_ it moves off the top of the screen, instead of straight toward me. If it does behave, try moving it again, and again zooming, as you might in a normal session. Then if I "-" zoom out, it will sometimes get worse, or zigzag. If I zoom way out, then ctrl-spacebar and drag a marquee just around the object, it simply disappears. Sometimes it almost seesm that zooming out "-" "remembers" previous positions, rather than zooming back down the path. Unfortunately these positions are false, or take account of the object's drag movements, but not the pan or..... I actually get some problems with the "camera controls" as well. This has been an ongoing problem for me, and apparently quite a few others. If anybody can describe their setup, and/or try my "recipe"....
Stop using the magnifying glass to zoom and the hand to pan. They are intended to be used with the orthogonal views (top, front, right, ect...) Use the camera controls to move the director and camera views.
When you use the hand to pan, you are not moving the camera. You are moving the viewpoint, like an out of body experience. The zoom button work by changing the viewpoint's scale, again, they don't actually do anything to the camera.
The giant arrows above the render button moves the camera, so use them when you want to move the camera.
{letting you do something wrong isn't a bug, it's a feature}
{The camera and the directors view are the same thing with two exceptions: the camera is a selectable object in a scene, and the director will let you rotate around an object.}
Stop using the magnifying glass to zoom and the hand to >pan. They are intended to be used with the orthogonal >views (top, front, right, ect...) Use the camera controls >to move the director and camera views. So are you saying, in a roundabout way that you can repeat my stated problem, in Director's View? I keep getting told this, as if it's the solution. If I am "not supposed to use it" then gray the silly thing out in the scenes where I am not supposed to use it. But I do not want that, as they have a completely different effect! If you Zoom out, you get a smaller image of the same "Focal length". If you use the camera controls you actually move the camera away from the scene , thus flattening it, Zooming in is then like using a Tele lens on a distant object, and literally gives completely different perspective. Which is as it should be. A photographer uses this. >When you use the hand to pan, you are not moving the >camera. Agreed. >The zoom button work by changing the viewpoint's scale, again, they don't actually do anything to the camera. See above. They do. They act differently. You can see the effect if you understand how a camera works, as I describe. I have posted about this. This is partially misinformation. When you zoom in and out, it does affect the camera. It affects Focal length. You can see this if you use Camera View and then Zoom that. The Focal Length actually changes on the Camera if you then look at it in Director's view. In Dir's view, as I describe above, you see the effect of this. All this about not affecting the camera is all very well, whether true or not. But if I render the image, the result is what I did. I want to be able to set that result as I want it. I want to move the camera back, then zoom in so I get a full screen, without fisheye. I am known as the Director, by their choice, not mine. {letting you do something wrong isn't a bug, it's a feature} Beg pardon? - It's only a feature if I can use that "wrong" thing to produce predictable, useful results. -It's so easy to disable a "feature" if it's not supposed to be used. However, I do feel that in the Dir's View, there are two distinct functions. One of them does not work very well. {The camera and the directors view are the same thing with two exceptions: the camera is a selectable object in a scene, and the director will let you rotate around an object.}
I could explain it again. I could even do some pretty pictures with arrows and labels to demonstrate what Bryce is doing as opposed to what you think it should be doing. But since you already know you're right, I'll just keep Brycing, like I've been doing, perfectly capable of putting the camera where I want it, for the last ten years.
Just remember that the way a real life camera works and the way any 3D camera (especially the Bryce one) may not be the same.
Come visit us at RenderGods.
Ignore the shooty dog thing.
Since you know so much, show me. I have asked about this often enough, and nobody has tried to tell me I am wrong. Not "convinced me". Nobody has tried to tell me.... >The zoom button work by changing the viewpoint's scale, >again, they don't actually do anything to the camera. And I have shown with pretty pictures etc that you appear to be wrong in your above statement. I think it would be far more useful if you presented your case, in the CAMERA analogy, than if you simply resorted to the sanctuary of sarcasm and secret knowledge. And I am sorry, I will take some convincing that Bryce is doing what it should, whatever it is doing, regardless of "what I want", given the camera analogy. Remember, what I illustrated is not the problem I have talked about. It is the reason I want the problem fixed. As far as Pan, Zoom and the camera movers are concerned, it does do what I want, but does it in an erratic way.
Hi, R O N: Do you see the blue square with the x in it in your images above? That is the camera. The viewpoint you are seeing is not coming through the lens of the virtual camera at all. The same is true of the orthagonal views as well. Only the camera view actually uses the virtual camera. I don't use the director's view to compose an image as I found it useless for doing so almost 20 years ago, and haven't tried it since. My advice is to stop playing with the director's view, and use the other views for your work in Bryce. :^) Render on, John
This is not my "second childhood". I'm not finished with the first one yet.
Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.
"I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather....not screaming in terror like the passengers on his bus." - Jack Handy
Come visit us at RenderGods.
Ignore the shooty dog thing.
I don't use the director's view to compose an image as I >found it useless for doing so almost 20 years ago, and >haven't tried it since. From personal preference, or because it's broken? I fully understand the camera is the blue thing. I like the Directors View because I can manipulate the camera if I wish, and it's the most versatile view for me.
If you are in the camera view, then you can edit the >camera settings. Note the FOV (Field of View) and Scale. If I am in the Director's View, I can get a renderable result, barring silly behaviour by Bryce. I can rotate the view in any direction, visually using the camera controls and get a rendition that looks like that. If I use the rotate device in the camera view, I simply see what I was watching fly off screen, as if +I_ had spun around while holding the camera. The Director can zoom around the whole picture, visually, at will! I can look at any side of any object, without moving the object. AND I get a rendered image that is exactly what I see at any time....barring silly behaviour by Bryce. That's the nub. The Director's View can be used for full rendition. It has all the power of the camera View, including Zooming in panning and swooping about the whole scene. If nobody uses it, and the only answer is "don't use it" and the broken parts are not going to be addressed, take it away, and I will find another package.
You can also move the camera to where the director is, and the other way around.
Come visit us at RenderGods.
Ignore the shooty dog thing.
The director view is not useless. I use it all the time, because it can 'center to selection'. I'll set up the POV with the director, then copy the camera to that location. Then I can still use the director where I need to see a different angle. I usually only use the camera as a visual reference for where it's at.
Typically, when someone is having difficulty and asks for assistance, they are grateful and appreciative when help is offered. Those who insist on bitching and arguing with the experts who's advice they sought, are seldom helped again.
So next time you have one of those most rare 'stupid questions', read the fucking manual.<- that's a link, if you click on it it will open the Bryce Manual in .pdf format.
xenic101
Now that some fuckard has sworn at me...I did not come here for the advice I got from you. AND I DON'T HAVE THE FUCKING MANUAL FOR V5, BECAUSE I AM USING V5.5 AND I USE THAT FUCKING MANUAL....ok. I know it does not work. I am pointing this out. IF I am not supposed to use them then grey the fucking things out. It's just good sense. WTF does versatility have to do with allowing something to fuck up? IT DOES NOT WORK. It is BROKEN. Bryce is viable. hmmm..let's see. Multiple owners. It's now being sold at a fraction to get up and running again after Corel dropped it. It makes more sense to simply fix them! to make the fucking programme like 99% of other programmes I have tried. errr hello...they WORKED. THE PROGRAMME IS 10 YEARS OLD? MAYBE IT NEEDS A REVAMP? Maybe it needs to listen, instead of castigating any questioner. This whole thing is BS. Everybody keeps talking about the Camera POSITION. I KNOW THE CAMERA POSITION POSITION* POSITION does not change. But where the manual falls into a sort of magic mumbling about why things become "distorted by zooming" and it's all very coimplex mumble mumble, and why ..no hang on...HOW...they become erratic I KNOW WHY THE DISTORTION HAPPENS. I HAVE STUDIED PHOTOGRAPHY. BRYCE BEHAVES EXACTLY AS A CAMERA SHOULD....except that it's broken. THE *camera IS CHANGED! ITS *************FOCAL LENGTH ************** IS ALTERED. It should not bounce around all over the place on the way back, if you call it a camera. sigh....and I have seen the same bahaviour in the ortho views....as I said before i thkn.
you forget one thing old nick bryce is not a program but a religion. ;) If you want a 3d program try blender its free too. Have a nice and Godblessed sunday all,
for
some free stuff i made
and
for almost daily fotos
(1) I disagree with the swearing in previous posts, however it is a common comment to RTFM in many situations where this information is clearly outlined. (2) The manual has not significantly changed between 5 and 5.5. In fact, the section on Zooming and Panning is exactly the same as quoted above (pages 25 and 26 of the Bryce 5.5 Manual). Anyone who bought and installed Bryce 5.5 would find the manual in the Help folder of their installation. (3) Why would anyone want to make Bryce like "99% of other programmes I've tried"? It has a avid following because it is unlike many other programs, and people like the way it works. This is also because they have taken the time to read information, listen to other people, and experiment to gain an understanding of how Bryce works. (4) As I said before, the Bryce Camera is not a real camera. It does not have a real lens, or a real focal length. You can't expect it to behave completely like a real camera. The Pan and Zoom controls themselves are specifically not for the camera, and expecting everything to behave as if they were a real camera shows a lack of understanding at best. (5) If you "...did not come here for the advice I got from you" then why did you come here? Merely to insult and shout at people who are trying to explain to you what really is going on, rather than an idealised version of what you think should be going on? There are people here who have been using Bryce since it was a Mac only tool, and they know more about it than any beginner does. They offer their advice freely, so please refrain from attacking them when it doesn't conform with your view of what Bryce should be doing. Regards Mahray
Come visit us at RenderGods.
Ignore the shooty dog thing.
dukduk was the only one who has given me real help here, and dukduk seems to have moved on to other things, mostly....UVDAN has tried as well. If I forget anyone, I am sorry Others have told me I : - am wrong - should understand - should simply ignore a BUG , and get on with it - should have listened first time, and backed up with quotes from an outdated manual that mutter. If I forgot anyone I am truly sorry. I am sure you want to know how much you head-in-the-sand, judgmental off-putting has deterred yet another customer. TEACHERS? lot of happy happy joy ruddy fairy-bunnies, most of you. render on! phphph!
dukduk was the only one who has given me real help here, and dukduk seems to have moved on to other things, mostly....UVDAN has tried as well. If I forget anyone, I am sorry Others have told me I : - am wrong - should understand - should simply ignore a BUG , and get on with it - should have listened first time, and backed up with quotes from an outdated manual that mutter. If I forgot anyone I am truly sorry. I am sure you want to know how much you head-in-the-sand, judgmental off-putting has deterred yet another customer. TEACHERS? lot of happy happy joy ruddy fairy-bunnies, most of you. render on! phphph!
dukduk was the only one who has given me real help here, and dukduk seems to have moved on to other things, mostly....UVDAN has tried as well. If I forget anyone, I am sorry Others have told me I : - am wrong - should understand - should simply ignore a BUG , and get on with it - should have listened first time, and backed up with quotes from an outdated manual that mutter. If I forgot anyone I am truly sorry. I am sure you want to know how much you head-in-the-sand, judgmental off-putting has deterred yet another customer. TEACHERS? lot of happy happy joy ruddy fairy-bunnies, most of you. render on! phphph!
dukduk was the only one who has given me real help here, and dukduk seems to have moved on to other things, mostly....UVDAN has tried as well. If I forget anyone, I am sorry Others have told me I : - am wrong - should understand - should simply ignore a BUG , and get on with it - should have listened first time, and backed up with quotes from an outdated manual that mutter. If I forgot anyone I am truly sorry. I am sure you want to know how much you head-in-the-sand, judgmental off-putting has deterred yet another customer. TEACHERS? lot of happy happy joy ruddy fairy-bunnies, most of you. render on! phphph!
dukduk was the only one who has given me real help here, and dukduk seems to have moved on to other things, mostly....UVDAN has tried as well. If I forget anyone, I am sorry Others have told me I : - am wrong - should understand - should simply ignore a BUG , and get on with it - should have listened first time, and backed up with quotes from an outdated manual that mutter. If I forgot anyone I am truly sorry. I am sure you want to know how much you head-in-the-sand, judgmental off-putting has deterred yet another customer. TEACHERS? lot of happy happy joy ruddy fairy-bunnies, most of you. render on! phphph!
dukduk was the only one who has given me real help here, and dukduk seems to have moved on to other things, mostly....UVDAN has tried as well. If I forget anyone, I am sorry Others have told me I : - am wrong - should understand - should simply ignore a BUG , and get on with it - should have listened first time, and backed up with quotes from an outdated manual that mutter. If I forgot anyone I am truly sorry. I am sure you want to know how much you head-in-the-sand, judgmental off-putting has deterred yet another customer. TEACHERS? lot of happy happy joy ruddy fairy-bunnies, most of you. render on! phphph!
Attached Link: http://www.daz3d.com
I hope that the regulars here don't mind my speaking for them. If they do they can tell me so. :^) 1. We are users of Bryce. Some long-time users, some short-time users. Almost all of us have galleries, showing that we ARE users of varying abilities. 2. We did not write the program. Some of us can write code, but most of us are not programmers. If you have complaints about the program, you should go to the link provided and tell the folks at Daz. The programmers of Bryce are there, not here. 3. We did not write the manual, either. That would also be something you should discuss with Daz, as well. And by the way, if it's any consolation, we don't like the manual either. :^) We can recommend "Real World Bryce4" by Susan Kitchens, though, an excellent resource for Bryce that covers just about everything except Bryce trees and metaballs. We have written a lot of tutorials for different aspects of Bryce not covered in the manual. Mine are in threads here in the Bryce Forum, poor but serviceable. 4. To my knowledge, you are the first person to visit here who has not found us helpful. I think that says more about you than about us. I do not mean this as an insult, just an insight. 5. This IS a friendly place, believe or not. No one insulted you until you yourself began to be arrogant and insulting. I don't expect you to see it this way, but it is true. Please note that most of us have shown restraint and not insulted you at all. Also please note that you have thrown some very broad and very ugly insults at ALL of us, even those who have chosen to stay out of this, which is most of us. 6. The ages of the folks here varies from teenagers to middle-aged people like myself (I'm 52) so the maturity level varies here. Some of us are hot-headed, some are patient. I hope I have been patient with you. 7. Lastly, I am sorry we have not been able to answer your questions to your satisfaction. Perhaps you will have better luck somewhere else. Sincerely, JohnThis is not my "second childhood". I'm not finished with the first one yet.
Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.
"I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather....not screaming in terror like the passengers on his bus." - Jack Handy
OK, my turn. And I'm going back to post one and, for now, ignoring everything that has come since then. I've tried very hard to reproduce the error you mention without luck. I'll be honest and say that I haven't read up on what the zoom buttons are supposed to do. It's easy to assume that they zoom, but I'm very much a push it and see kinda guy. The + and - seem to change the scale and therefore the perspective of the scene. + and - keys relative to the centre of the scene and Ctrl-Space and Ctrl-Alt-Space to the pointer position. It can be confusing to presume that photographic terminology in Bryce has a direct relation to photographic terminology in photography. Lens radius and focal length mean slightly different things in Bryce. SO, it's quite possible that zoom in Bryce means something else. Maybe if they had labeled the option scale then there wouldn't be all this confusion. But in anycase, you say that the + and - cause erratic behaviour, which is different, to me, to confusing behaviour. Starting with a default scene, the - changes the scale from 100% to 66.67%, then 44.44% then 29.63, which, although does zoom out, it's more a scale out. Ctrl-Alt-Space does the same. Then + a few times goes back to 100%. Using the Ctrl-Space Mouse, works slightly differently since it scales relative to the cursor position. I'm wondering if the problem you've encountered has something to do with that? Do you get the same issue just using the - and + keys? Maybe if you take screen shots at 100% and then at each step you follow to reproduce the problem, I'll have more luck seeing what it's doing. The trouble is... If it's a bug, then it's probably always been there and a very tiny percentage of people have ever had the problem and so it won't get fixed as a priority. If it's not a bug then it's a question of misunderstanding and nothing to be fixed. You may not want to use a work around, (i.e. storing the view and moving the director position), but it may well be the easiest solution for you.
---------
Phillip Drawbridge
Website
Facebook
Privacy Notice
This site uses cookies to deliver the best experience. Our own cookies make user accounts and other features possible. Third-party cookies are used to display relevant ads and to analyze how Renderosity is used. By using our site, you acknowledge that you have read and understood our Terms of Service, including our Cookie Policy and our Privacy Policy.
Is anyone getting Pan and Zoom FEARtures in Bryce Director's views. I have started a thread on the Bryce forums, and had support, but Brycetech says he cannot reproduce the problem, and Tech Support also say this, although in the past it has been admnitted as a "known bug", apparently. Basically, if I Zoom in and out using "-" and "+", I get very erratic behaviour. Using ctrl-spacebar to zoom to a window usually results in the whole scene going blank. I then have to zoom waaay out until I see the image and start again.