For retouching and adding post-work (not a lot.. I'm not very good at it). I'm hovering between 3 choices. The 1st 2 are: Paint Shop Pro 8 (at 35) and PSP 9 (at 75). Is V9 worth nearly double the price? What can it do that PSP 8 can't. I'm also considering Photoshop. Would I be wasting (a lot) of money? (FYI, I already have a couple of ancient apps, PSP4 (yes 4), and Picture Publisher 8) TIA for any advice, Cheers, Diolma

Have you considered Photoshop Elements 3? I have it and I am quite pleased with it.

That's what I was going to recommend as well. Photoshop Elements has most of Photoshop's functionality at a price of only $100 US (around the same price as PSP9). I use both that and PSP8 (both of which I highly recommend). I have never tried PSP9 so I can't tell you how it compares to PSP8, but if you're going to spend the extra money then you might want to consider PS Elements.

Many Thx for the replies. Will try that (unless I get other responses in this thread) :-) Cheers, Diolma (Saving thread to HD, whilst watching thunderstorm that's just started...)

deeppaint 2 is a free download, much like photoshop.

Attached Link: http://www.gimp.org/

While I use Photoshop, a freebie out there that is pretty good is The Gimp available for Windows/Mac/Linux/Unix. Check out the web site -- you can try it for awhile before dropping any $$$ for another program. Screenshot is from a Mac OS, but not too dissimilar from Windows & Company.

Message edited on: 09/04/2005 18:53

Attached Link: ArtRage by Ambient Design

Photoshop Elements is really nice but limited in some regards being a "consumer" rather than "professional" product. PSP 9 has a radically good Natural Media feature new to that version, it may or may not interest you --a limited Freeware version of the Natural Media module is available from the developer Ambient Dessigns Ltd, it is called ArtRage and is only available for PC. GIMP is free and does all the important stuff of Photoshop but I find the interface unpleasent. You don't happen to know where I can get SmartDraw circa 1995? The company is gone, having sold both the product name and the company name of Futurewave I believe. I am kinda desperate for this program as my Parkisonism is geting worse and this program was a vector drawing program that was based on patern recognition and could smooth curved lines and extrapolate geometric shapes from uneven drawing also it had painting-within-the-lines and permited a certain degree of editing of the vector paths using raster like tools such as an eraser. I realy want this program but I have only the install from my old Mac and I am on a PC as I can't afford a Mac now.

Attached Link: http://www.squirreldome.com/cyberop.htm

Don't forget Dogwaffle, now renamed PD Pro. There's a free demo version available too.

I have PSP9. Have used the series since version 3.14. PSP9 makes a few changes in how it handles everything and it took me a little while to get used to it (Particularly how it handles selections on layers). If you are familiar with PSP then I'd stick with the series, you'll find it immediately familiar and be whipping stuff up in little to no time. I can't say whether you will need v9 or 8. You might want to read about the additional features in v9 and see what kind of work you are aiming to do with it and if what it has to offer is what you are needing.

Attached Link: http://www.maa.org/editorial/mathgames/mathgames_08_01_05.html

I take it the current SmartDraw is not the same app momodot? The one I saw on PCWorld(http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file_description/0,fid,2015,00.asp) for DL has a Win 3.1 version which is pretty darned old. Here's a link to a ;ot of vector drawing apps. maybe Microsoft's new Acrylic might have something that you can use.

If you registered PSP4, you may actually be able to upgrade to PSP9. It seems you have to contact Corel directly to "negotiate" upgrade pricing according to their website, although amazon.co.uk lists PSP9 Upgrade for 31.97. (I don't know in what way the upgrade checks if you're allowed to install it, so it may not be wise to buy that without contacting Corel) BTW Amazon UK lists PSP9 full including Photo Album 5 for 69.99. (Full on its own is 89.96????) And if you don't mind buying through one of those private sellers on Amazon you can get PSP8 new from about 9.

Something else to consider; Corel is about to release version 10. (Although it may be some time before we can buy the international English version) http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Corel3/Products/Display&pid=1047025393924 That's a nice price actually (if you're in the US, that is)

Geeze, When did Corel buy PSP from JASC? And why I wonder, since they already have PhotoPaint? Momodot you may want to look at the new CorelDraw it says it features: " Smart Drawing tools that instantly recognize shapes while you're drawing, minimizing the number of steps it takes to create graphics."

Corel bought JASC/PSP about a year ago, probably to have some entry-level editor to compete with Photoshop Elements. And PSP has some loyal following of course, although most were not too happy about Corel aquiring JASC. Guess PSPX will be the proof of the pudding...

Buting out the competition I'd say..... PSP has had no development since it was bought by Corel although it now comes bundled in a suite of tools. I wouldn't be surprised if PSP was getting a little too good for their liking and encrouching on some of PS and CorelDRAW 's territory :)

Momodot, you must have meant FutureWave's SmartSketch. This morphed into Macromedia Flash, but is probably not anything like SmartSketch anymore. You may want to try a demo of Macromedia Freehand to see if it has any SmartSketch technology. (Note: Freehand's future is a little uncertain as Adobe wants to acquire Macromedia - exit Freehand in favour of Illustrator, probably). On the other hand, CorelDraw is a very nice program.

Thank you martians, I think you ar absolutly right. I will see about Freehand, I used it way back when I was doing commercial art "in-house" but I don't remeber the "pattern recognition" stuff... This is what I need as my palsy becomes worse. I wish I could find an old copy of the 1995 program since I love small programs. My favorite paint software was/is Aprentice/Monet by Delta Toa, now available only as a bundle with MacCheese or something from a German retailer. Mac only alas. Anyway, off to find the Freehand demo. Oh, for diolma, PSP9 so far as I can tell has all the features as Photoshop 8 though I am having trouble with learning the new interface, it seems like it developed out of ColorIt! for Mac which was about $35 in 1995 and I thought had a much better user interface and more developed features then Photoshop 5 at the time. The PSP9 scripting looks a little less powerfull than the Photoshop but that is the only limititation i have found yet. Also I have not found Layer Styles yet.

I am downloading the demo but I am still hassling through the site trying to find the price... i have a bad feeling about it. SmartSketch was $39 and didn't have all these features, it essntially did only one thing but it was perfect at that... this one seems to have a serious cornacopia of features that would chalenge my adled mind :) Is ther a place other than Ebay for finding Abondoned softwear... soe little outfit in Bedford Styvison next to those camera stores hidden behind steel doors? Those are legit mind you, just not for the cassual shutter bug.

Momodot, try Macromedia Flash instead. I just tested the trial, and it still does what you described about SmartSketch - extrapolating shapes and painting-within-the-lines. That's actually pretty nifty functionality. Only thing is, Flash seems a bit like overkill for just making drawings. And it costs $399. Sorry for steering you towards Freehand.

Ugh! I just spent months working myself up to finally buy PSP9 for $98USD! I don't see Flash on my horizon for $399... still I'll download the demo to see what the deal is... I thought Flash was for making animations. It does drawing with smoothing? That is what I am after, something that makes my spazy lines and curves straight and/or smooth.

I'm downloading I think the right Flash Demo. But isn't Flash what my kid has to download a new version of the player for practically every week to use those game sites?

Ugh! I hate to carp. I am still downloading Flash but Freehand seems to be a conventional vector program. What was cool about SmartSketch was that it was a vector program masquarading as a raster paint program, there were no bezier tools, handles, control points, etc. Just pencils, brushes, paint buckets, eraser, and selection/dragging tool. Yet everything it created was pure vector and it had some neat stroke styles for the paths which were shown realtime. The main thing now that I am forced by my disability to type with my thumbs, and can't really paint very easily any more, was that you could set the degree as dynamic line smoothing as you drew, and set strictness rules for patern recognition so it could make quavering lines at any angle straight and any irregular attempt at a shape regular, but there were no polygon tool or such per se. What I need is a retailer who specializes in packaged obsolete software. All my favorite software is long gone, typically the were around 350Kb and served at least as well as the new bloat wear. WriteNow, ColorIt!, SmartSketch, Monet, were all amazing programs. I can't for the life of me discern what Microsoft WordPerfect does better then my old WriteNow :( Oh well. Thanks for the help :)

@momodot: what MS WordPerfect probably does better than WriteNow is get in the way when you want to something simple, like "Ah! You've just started a new paragraph with a number. I'll turn the paragraph numbering system on for you" (That's a MS Word "feature" which may or may not be part of WordPerfect, but typical of MS's "helpful" ways. You have to go through hoops to find out how to turn the d*mn "helpful features" off!) Cheers, Diolma (And I've just saved this thread to HD - I'll be searching the net tomorrow for PSP9 and wait for a while before getting Photoshop.)

momodot Not sure if you know this but if you hit your shift key while drawing a line in PSP it will restrict you drawing at 45degree set angles (like 0, 45, 90, 135...). Also are you using Antialiasing when drawing/selecting with PSP? Can't help you with the older stuff unfortunately :( . Although I have my own difficulties (Being Deaf with a sever vision Impairment, Deafblind). I find Poser very difficult to use.

Deafblind!? Wow... What I want is to draw freely and so far as I have used it PS8 makes me go segment by segment and builds up a lota layers fast. BUT!!! I recognize that drawing engine in Flash! It is one hundred percent the exact functionality and interface of SmartSketch from 1995! I have been looking for a couple years now and it never occured to me that it was contained in Flash. I thought Flash was for animating existing objects and had no idea you could draw in it. Freehand isn't for me but Flash is ideal. I wonder if the drawing part goes all the way back to an early version I could get on Ebay or somewhere. I can't make heads or tails of the animation part but the drawing part is precisly what I have wanted all this time. I wonder why there is no straight drawing application based on this... I totally recognize it... it absolutly is the very same code as SmartSketch though I have not found the "strictness" settings if they are there. Look at these scribles, the application completely hides my tremor, the curves are done without using bezier handles but are fully etitable. The eraser brakes curves without the hasle of cutting or unwanted snapping. Even if I can't afford it I am glad my search is finally over. Thank you, martians.

Attached Link: http://ppm.intergraph.com/smartsketch/

Is this what you were looking for momodot? Intergraph SMartsketch 1.0? Sorry just realised that link is for version 5. Still sounds like what you were looking for though......

Message edited on: 09/05/2005 19:45

I am trying that intergraph trial but it seems to be a software for making charts and organizational diagrams. Flash is definately where my application ended up - it is utterly identical in every way. I apreciate your help on this. Now I just need to look into the Flash situation.

Glad you found it Momodot.

Paint Shop Pro... hands down. It can do nearly 90% of what Adobe Photoshop can do. It's Adobe compatible which means it can use an filter that Photoshop can. It has a low learning curve, and is 10 times cheaper than Photoshop is.

Momodot: I just tried a Flash 3 trial from a 1998 cover cd - never throw anything away :-) - and it was all there. The strictness settings in the latest Flash can be found under Edit - Preferences - Editing - Drawing settings. I even managed to draw a triangle that turned into a square...

You could also try Corel Painter. I have version 8.1 and I really enjoy it. Very close to Photoshop in some regards. Most Photoshop plugins will work with it.

I never use my Corel Painter despite the terrible amount of money it cost. I hate everything about it except the water colors... I can do better natural medai in Photoshop 8. But that is just me... most people like Painter... I think I actually liked Painter 5 mor than Painter 8 though Painter 8 dynamic watercolors are a mazing. The natural media in PSP9 is supperior, less complicated, and more realistic in my mind. PSP9 does do 90%+ what Photoshop can do but I just bought it and I have not got used to the interface. martians, thanks again. That is helpfull re. eBay (not that I ahve ever used that)... the interface seems more straight forward then in the most recent trial Flash. In anycase, this is the SmartSketch I was after... should help me so much... I love drawing those smooth curves etc. I used to use SmartSketch to do nice clean line graphic style portraits and figures... illustrator programs are too complex and not spontaneous enough and my hands shake too much to do terribly clean graphic work in a raster program. this Flash is just right.

I am still struggling to make a living doing comercial stuff. Telecom stuff mainly. here is a little graphic I made for someone recently. I hate dealing with paths and etc. so much in draw programs that I did this in Photoshop.

Although I've now already made up my mind (all 1 brain-cell of it), I love the way this thread is developing! Good luck to you all, thanks for the help and may you always know where your towel is...:-) Cheers, Diolma

Funny we were talking about the fact that there's been no development on PSP since Corel bought it...... Corel just relased PSP 10 (PSP X). Maybe you want to hold onto your pennies rather than buying PSP 8/9 and go straight for version 10.....