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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2025 Jan 09 3:46 am)
Subject: Dynamic Clothing..... Love'em or hate'em?
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A simpler way to create natural looking edges - not as detailed as a full rounded rectangle, but much faster in both the modeling app and the cloth simulator - is simply extruding the edge segments inwards for about 1-2 millimeters and assigning only the new edge vertices to the soft decorated group. Useful for "narrower" openings that hardly allow for a good look at the inside of the cloth, such as armholes and necklines. Less useful for the hem of a wide skirt or the trimmings of an open jacket.
The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter
Mizrael: you're right, pokethrough can happen with dynamic cloth. But you can turn a body part invisible after the calculations are done. You're also right about not setting a body part invisible before calculating the simulation - that is a surefire way to mess things up indeed.
The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter
heh, I think my day was much worse. Fell in the shower this morning and hurt my back and cut myself. Then fainted this evening and in the process hurt my foot quite bad. Don't think it's broken, but it sure hurts. I can't even touch my toes to the floor :(
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
Yeah, I was reading with the missunderstanding that you were suggesting a solution to the problem I had mentioned. That's the problem with forum software that doesn't have a built in quote feature. If people don't manually quote you you're never sure if they're replying to your post or somebody elses. In anycase, no harm no foul. Warm Fuzzies to you and yours and you too Acadia....oh heck. Warm Fuzzies to everyone who needs em' today. I've got plenty to share..er... um.. or is that just gas. I never know these days. o.O
I'll take a Tylenol 3 over that warm fuzzy, LOL
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
Wow, this is a great thread! Thanks so much for the info. I can't wait to try the dynamic cloth now. I downloaded poserfashion's, PoserWorld's, Poserclub, and svdl 's dynamic clothes. I also have PhilC's Martial Arts outfit that came in both conforming and dynamic formats. :D Two areas I'm interested in, Ancient Egypt and Feudal Japan are lacking in good clothing. There are things out there, but draping clothing doesn't look very good as conforming. I bought DAZ's Ancient Egyptian for $45 back in the days and I STILL can't make that skirt pose on M2! I even tried to Wardrobe Wizard it, but it converted to pose just as badly as it did on M2. :( I love the Loose Pants and Top, Lyrra! Those pants are almost EXACTLY what I've been looking for! I been wanting the riding style of Hakama pants for so long. I took a look at the Obj. It looks almost like what fabric would look like after cutting it with a sewing pattern. Interesting. I have patterns for Hakama and Kimonos. I wonder if you can use those same shapes with Clothing Creator. Interesting.... :D Can we see pictures of hybrid conforming/dynamic clothing and also Dynamic Clothing with seams or mesh details modeled in? Thanks! :D bB
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'cos I LOVE doing naughty things with svdl's (Thx Steven) meshes, like fitting them to totally inappropriate characters, making holes and/or slits in the mesh in a 3D app, and generally faffing about with them:-))
All, I hasten to add for my own use/pleasure only. And if I ever get good enough to post a render then svdl will most certainly be credited..I know when to give credit where it's due..
Cheers,
Diolma
Edited 'cos of misleading spelling mistake. Wierd how you (well, I) only pick them up AFTER posting..
Message edited on: 09/03/2005 15:44
You know, they say bad things come in three's. Maybe between us all we've used up that quota. I just got back from being check out from hospital. Twisted neck out. They were more worried about me maybe having another stroke, lost the feeling in one arm for awhile. I seem to be OK, just a sore neck. Bad day all around. That dress of mine in post 13 had the hems modeled before I ran it through the cloth room. I did have to fix them here and there after, but for the most part they worked pretty well. My shirt I made the hems/piping after the cloth room. Then turned it into a double sided conforming figure for Jessie.
Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=1039018
Gee, I never thought of soft decorated... Thank guys, especially sdvl. My next product (per the pic) will now have edges, plus seams from displacement mapping, both seem to work fine. Incidently, a nice edge can be made in Max by extruding inward as sdvl said, but then extruding again down a bit more, so you will have a inner corner. Do both "local". I used to make round beaded edges similar to what he mentions, but stoped doing it because they are not DAZ Studio compatable (3 polygons can't share an edge, it renders with holes). Not that D/S is compatable with Dynamic clothing! ;-)
BTW, something I only found out recently (not sure if it's P6 only or I just missed it in P5). In the cloth room, if you activate one of the group editors, there's the option to "add material". And there all the materials of the cloth in the drop-down list. The reason this is important to me is 'cos (like I said before), I like playing aroud with meshes, but that means exporting them as .obj files, which loses any cloth-room grouping. So NOW what I do is assign different basic colours to each of the materials before exporting. Then import into 3d mesh-trashing app, fiddle about, export, re-import to P6 and since (eg) the buttons were a separate material, I can just add them back to the rigid decorated group by selecting them from the drop-down. OK, so I have to re-apply the original materials, but that's not usually a big job..and anyway, I usually want to change them to something else, just to be different:-) (Apologies if this is all self-evident to the experienced, am aiming this at the less experienced...) Cheers, Diolma
Works in P5 too. I've used it extensively, since I haven't found out how to smooth polygons across mesh boundaries in Max. So I just assigned different materials to polygons that I wanted to have in different cloth room groups.
The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter
If anyone wants to go and download that kimono, I'll try and help them in MSN or ICQ. I'm no expert in the Cloth room, and have only really worked in there using the poserfashions tutorial, but I have managed to get things to work. I can help you at least to understand the basics that I have managed to pick up. For something more advanced you will have to seek out someone else though :)
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
BastBlack, actually there are other reasons why people are still making non-dynamic stufff. Dynamic only works properly in certain situations and for certain types of images. Dynamic takes time and patience to set up for even just a still. Dynamic (especially hair) can often look terrible in close-up, and (again, esp. hair), can increse poly-count and rendering time enormously. OTOH: If the situation is right and you have the time/patience, dynamic can be very rewarding... Cheers, Diolma
Some items, socks and shoes come to mind, as well a gloves work better as conformers. Heck, some shoes look more realistic as props. I don't think thick platform soles bend all that much. But many clothes work well as dynamic. DIsplacement mapping, as Jim's pointed out, can adda great deal of realism with very low processor overhead. I think hybreds will eventually take the lead. If there was only a was to cofrom PART of an item, say the upper part of a dress, and let the lower skirt be dymanmic... unfortunatley all of my feable efforts havent worked out very well. the lower skirt always pulls away form the top. mike
With the cloth room it's a snap....
The supreme irony of life is that hardly anyone gets out of
it alive.
Robert A. Heinlein
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64.0 GB (63.9 GB usable)
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@trav, diolma: Can be done. My hybrids work that way (no, I haven't uploaded them to freestuff yet, they're not good enough, just "proofs of concept".
If you make a conforming figure with dynamic body parts, the rules of play required by the cloth room are as follows:
- the dynamic parts must be "end parts", they can't have child actors;
- the dynamic parts must NOT have an existing body part name;
- the vertices of the dynamic parts that coincide with vertices of conforming parts (the vertices that would be "welded" in a conforming figure) should be assigned to the constrained group;
- and the conforming parts of the clothing figure should be set as a collision object too.
As an aside, it's also possible to create the dynamic parts as parented props - parented to a body part of the conforming cloth. Actually, the setup is easier this way. I have attached a skirt to BillyT's conforming waist nipper this way, and it works perfectly.
The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter
svdl, could you PLEASE put up a pick of one of your hybrids. I'd love to see one. I thought I'd tried to your method, except for the collison to the conforming figure (which I now beleive to be very important) and the dynamic portion drifted through the conformed portion. The parenting idea is also a really good one that I hadn't tried. mike
Content Advisory! This message contains nudity
Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=1040603
Here's one. The skirt on the leftmost woman is a prop parented to the conforming waist nipper. It also uses the thicker hem trick, though it's hardly visible at this scale.The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter
Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=974165
And here's another one.The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter
"As an aside, it's also possible to create the dynamic parts as parented props - parented to a body part of the conforming cloth. Actually, the setup is easier this way." That's what I was reaching for - you got there 1st Steven! I hadn't even considered make a hybrid a single mesh (I don't have any experience with the bones room yet, so it wasn't an option..) However, your 2nd pic, with the rings as conforming and the dress dynamic, strikes me as a possibly better way to go than making the rings "hard decorated", especially as the cloth room can have problems with things like rings... Cheers, Diolma
Diolma: I can confirm your idea about those rings. I tried hard decorated and the dress fell apart. It's even possible to have the dynamic cloth attached to more than one body part. Just make sure that the vertices touching the conforming cloth are constrained, and it works.
The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter
Thx svdl. You've now got me thinking along the lines of attaching cloth to actual body-parts for the smokey part of genies from the lamp (an effect I've been struggling with for some time now), or ghost-like effects. Would need wind-force to get the effect right.. Can't think it all through at the moment, but it's another weapon in the arsenal! Cheers, Diolma
Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=239477
diolma, "attaching cloth to actual body-parts for the smokey part of genies from the lamp (an effect I've been struggling with for some time now), or ghost-like effects. Would need wind-force to get the effect right." That is a great ideal. If you can use primitives, why not cloth. Take a look at this image and you will see what I mean. I created the fire using transmapped primitives. Now I'm going to have to do a new one with the cloth. Thanks to all.- 1
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Dynamic cloth is a simple piece of cloth with no edging whatsoever. This is not commonly found in the real world in any type of clothing. Knitted sweaters have a finished edge on the body. Skirts have a sewn-in hem (where the material is overlocked, turned once or twice and sewn down with a row of stitching) on the bottom. Things like that. That's realistic cloth. Dynamic cloth in the ral world would look hideous and the edges would fray when you washed it. Am I making any sense? And yeah Acadia, I know how to make hems the same way, but it still looks 'finished'.