Before I start, I know this is ZBrush related but it's also Poser related, so I hope it's OK to post in this forum :-) Ok, I've just got ZBrush2 - and I'm really pleased with it 'cos it's very "hands on". I have a problem though, when trying to create morphs for Poser. I'm aware of the various problems associated with creating morphs, but I was under the impression that they'd been sorted in ZBrush2 - and to be fair, I think my problem lies with the mesh, not ZBrush. Here's my problem; I can import any DAZ figure direct from the Poser geometries folder, make my edits, and load them into Poser as Morph-Targets without any problems whatsoever... ...but... ...if I do this with say, stock RDNA figures, I come accross a problem where the mesh splits apart at the grouping seams in ZBrush2 - whenever I use the smoothing brush. Now, the interesting thing is; although this happens, the morphs "still" work in Poser. But editing with gaps in ZBrush2 is not ideal. Sooooooooo...I thought, I'll just merge the points in either Poser or ZBrush then edit the mesh. It seems to work upto a point, but for some strange reason, only certain parts of the mesh will work if I "Merge-Points". So for example the head morph will work - but the abdomen morph messes-up big-time! This is really annoying, I saved hard for this software 'cos I was under the impression there'd be no such problems with it, so I'm really hoping that some genius around here has the answer. Len.

Yep - that's the way the smooth brush works. If there is a gap or seam between the group, Poser seems to cover it up, so it's not noticeable. The smooth brush is the only tool where this occurs. The botton line is that if you are doing morphs, don't use the smooth brush - and in practice, with morphs - you are rarely actually doing that much smoothing - so it is not so much a problem. Use Std, Inflat and Nudge. Pinch can be handy too. Merging points is a no-no and will lead to all sorts of morph problems. Also, if you are doing Unimesh morphs - check out dburdick's tutorial on using PoserLittleHelper.

If you weld - doesn't that mean when you export the figure from ZB2 it will have fewer vertices? For a morph to work in Poser, it needs the same number of vertices.

@SWAMP
Well, yeah it's true, I don't have any problems with the UniMesh figures, everything works as smooth as I could ever wish for in that respect. It's just the non-DAZ figures.

I've tried the Weld option, but I gotta say, when I did, I put my slider almost all the way to the left .001 or something, can't remember. I'll have to try that again, this time with the slider all the way right!

@face_off
I always thought that welding the vertices would alter the vertice count as well, but strangely enough, I'm not sure it does, because although some of the morphs don't work right, Poser will still accept them as having the correct vertice-count.

Len.

Well I'll be.....I just tried V3, then Jessi - and you are right - you can't tear V3 with smooth, but you can with Jessi. No explaination for that - sorry. I wonder if "weld" attaches the 2 vertices together in 3d space, but still keeps them as separate vertices. Must experimetn with that sometime.... Also, Jessi contained 4 non-standard polys (msg when you load her into ZB2) - maybe that is the cause.

lol - kinda weird aint it. Well, I hope someone can figure it out 'cos I really can't be doing without the smooth brush! BTW, I was using Judy when I get the problem. Weld vertices does keep the seams together, but when you bring back into Poser, the Hip morph will work but the Abdomen morph messes-up. Yep, time to pull my hair out I think!

the reason you cant tear V3 is that she was never split in the first place. in order to save grouping in some programs you need to split the mesh, and in fact Poser will split the mesh upon loading, for poser this is no problem becouse they have internal welding of groups. but several programs like lightwave, and C4D using riptide, allow you to export grouped unsplit meshes. if the original mesh was unsplit in the first place like all of the millennium 3 figures you wont have any problems.

have you tried Tool>Geometry>Crease. this should stop the edges tearing when you subdivide

Hmmm . I have trouble with things breaking on the unimesh when I use the smooth but maybe the weld will help ... Good to know

Cheers
Stefan

Message edited on: 09/27/2005 00:08

Message edited on: 09/27/2005 00:13

Well you learn something every day. Thanks Stefan. Have you got a work-around for the 4 non-standard polys error that ZB2 throws up on Jessi? My work-around was to remove the body part that had the non-standard polys (might have been the eyes or p/hair) prior to importing into ZB2.

Hi-Re Jessi has 4 ngons in the head bodygroup,two in the back of the head where the subdivision level is decreased..& another two inside the mouth,I know of no way to get around that..as you've already found ZBrush needs either quads or tris to work with.
the Daz troll is another with a couple ngons(under it's chin)
they didn't check the symmetry seam for missed welds :

Stefan

Message edited on: 09/27/2005 01:01

Ah yes - that's it. From memory, ZB only adds polys, not vertices, so it doesn't stop you doing morphs.

Hmmm ... It seems I am somewhat alone in the tearing of the unimesh with the smooth brush ...

No you aren't. It tears for me too, but I usually only use the head and neck so I export from Poser first. Maybe that's why?

creasing it isn't working?

I haven't tried that yet. thanks for the tip :)

So you just crease and that works? Don't have to uncrease? I am atwork so I can't test. thanks.

yep momcat its exporting from poser that will split your mesh, if you load the base figure mesh directly from your object library you will not get that splitting.

Ah, ok I do that so I can import the obj into the scene and test it right away(less stuff to delete from the scene)...this would be a perfect example of why one would want to have 2 instances of Poser open at the same time. One for working and one for testing.

Yep .. Unfortunately it is much easier to work with just parts and you can use the mesh much easier than using the whole thing.

Have you got a work-around for the 4 non-standard polys error that ZB2 throws up on Jessi? A fix was mentioned in another ZBrush Full Body Morph thread, and it does indeed work ... EnglishBob posted this suggestion in another thread ... I quote ... "Get Anthony Appleyard's utility Depent from freestuff here. That was originally written for Poser 3, which also can't handle > 4 sided polys. Run the OBJ you want to morph through Depent, and save it as a different name. Copy the item's CR2, and change the figureResFile lines to point to your new OBJ. Check this new version in Poser, to see if the morphs still work. Try all the body parts because you won't know where the altered polys were. IF that works, you can make your morphs as before, but use the depent-ed OBJ. Zbrush should import it without an error, and if so, your morphs should work when you get back to Poser."

"A fix was mentioned in another ZBrush Full Body Morph thread, and it does indeed work ... EnglishBob posted this suggestion in another thread ..." is a fix needed?,it's not adding any new verts so there shouldn't be any problems with morphs,I'd just ignore the ngon errors it throws up if you need to see where those ngons are load up uvmapper & go 'Select/Facets/Nsided/' for creasing objects the procedure should be..load you obj,hit 'edit' then hit crease..any groups that are visible will be creased,then just sculpt & export as usual

Thanks!

Been trying to work-out this problem but no luck here :-/
I'll have to try the Crease function for now I think.

Thanks to all for posting, and if I manage to solve it, I'll post a new thread to let you know.

Cheers,
Len.

One of the other reasons I export from Poser is that I morph tyhe eyelashes out of the way before exporting so I have free access to the eye area. Would there be a way to import the obj from geometries and have the lashes out of the way?

Momcat - removing the eyelashes from the ZB edit window is easy using the Mask functions. Tool->Polygroups->Autogroups Ctl->Shift over an eyelash Ctl->Shift drag on the canvas (to reverse the visibility) Ctl->Chift over the remaining 7 eyelash pieces of geom The only issue with this method is that you will loose your groups. To get them back, use uvmapper to import the original V3, and export the UV's and groups. Then load the morphed mesh and apply the uv's and groups you saved. OR Remove the eyelash material from the mesh using Compose and import the resulting mesh into ZB2.

Eek Stuck with eyelashes

face_off, I'm having difficulty wrapping my brain around what you wrote. Any chance you'd be willing to write it up as a tutorial with images? Sorry to be a pain. It's not your fault, just the way my brain works. :(

Sorry Momcat - on a time budget at the moment. More specific instructions..... Start ZB2 Document->Double (does anyone know how to make this happen automatically?) Tool->Import->select the standard V3 obj (blmilwom_v3.obj) left-mouse drag onto canvas Hit T Tool->Polygroups->Autogroups [this next bit is slightly diff to above] Ctl-Shift left mouse button select V3's whole head Left mouse click the move button (on the right hand side of the canvas) - V3's head should now fill the screen. Ctl-Shift with the left-mouse click over the 8 lashes geom parts - the lashes should dissappear as you do this. Now you have V3 minus lashes (and minus body) If you want to have the centre of the head as the rotation point, click the S.Pivot button on the right. Now left-mouse drag on the canvas and V3's head rotates nicely. If you do this, you MUST MUST MUST remember to click the C.Pivot button prior to exporting the mesh as obj, otherwise the morph offsets will be wrong. Also, you can Tool->Masking->Mask All, then Ctl->left mouse click on the canvas (to view the whole mesh), then Tool->Masking Inverse. Now you have the lashes back, but they won't be modified by any mesh operations (you'll notice they are dark, indicating that they are masked out). If absolutely none of this makes any sense, then you are probably at the stage on needing to go through the tutorials in the Practical ZBrush guide - they are pretty useful, and all this (and much more) is covered.