Attached Link: http://market.renderosity.com/softgood.ez?ViewSoftgood=39673

Heya, I keep looking at the "Girl Next Door 2 - Athletic" package by Blackhearted/Rio. It's in my wishlist. But... With all those custom morphs, I'm just really worried that none of the clothing I have will fit. Can anyone tell me what she's like fitting stuff onto? Easy fix? Terrible? I mean... it's all well and good having a great looking morph, but if I can only really use her naked and have to paint clothing on her, then I am better off not getting her at all. I'd never use her for anything if that's the case. Sorry, it's a great looking character, but the clothing and fits for her worry me a great deal, so I thought I'd ask first.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12413&Form.ShowMessage=2480904

Funny you mention this. I am working on several clothing kits for GND2 and Irina. Here is a link t oone of the things I'm working on. If you have any dynamic V3 clothes, they will work fine, but might need some slight tweaking. If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me. -Starkdog P.S. Slight nudity in link Post

Some comforming clothing will fit her, you just have to tweak around for a while. I usually get as close as I can and then postwork the clothing to fit better. She is such a departure from the standard V3...I was intrigued and not one bit sorry I got her. If you are able to do some postwork or don't mind tweaking then go for it.

Ok.... "Some" isn't quite gonna cut it for me. :/ Unfortunately that means for now she's off my shoppinglist. I don't mind tweaking, but I mind spending an hour to get a pair of pants to fit (if that's what you're talking about) I don't mind postworking either - but I mind if I have to do it, because that severely limits what I can do in Poser (like Athmospheric Fog) with that character. Sometimes you simply have to get it right in Poser because the effect cannot be postworked unless you spend hours and hours on it. Since this is a hobby... and I render for fun... :(

I share your concern. I went ahead and got GND2, hoping that somehow Wardrobe Wizard might help make regular V3 clothing fit. I haven't had a chance to try it out yet. Has anyone else?

I tried the Tailor (latest version), so I managed to fit the Victoria Year Three Jacket + suit on her. Not a perfect fit, but she is so gorgeous that it's worth the work... However, I tried the Huntress outfit and didn't worked. Here is an image...

From the GND page: "...and is a refreshing change from the shapeless default V3 body." Excuse me, but that's a load of horse shit (either that or a not-so-cleverly-disguised marketing ploy). I'm sure GND is just fine, but I'd hardly call DAZ' efforts "shapeless". talent notwithstanding.... Arrogance remains alive and well, I see.

"but I'd hardly call DAZ' efforts "shapeless"." I'm not sure what's wrong with the description shapeless? How would you describe the default V3 body? It IS shapeless, that is why you use morphs to give it a shape. There is no reason to call someone's product description horse shit.

Attached Link: http://market.renderosity.com/softgood.ez?Who=lululee

All of my bodygloves fit The Girl Next door. Even the clothier stuff will work with her fairly well. Here is an image I did with my fantasy Lanna set. The Victoreian bodyglove overlays will work on her default skin texture since they are just png files you can put on in Photoshop. cheerio lululee

"There is no reason to call someone's product description horse shit. " Sure there is. If his GND relies on DAZ' V3 character, shouldn't he show a tad more gratitude, as opposed to being outright insulting towards it? I mean, no V3, no GMD. Right? I'm sure there are many people who will gladly stick up for him in this argument, but it seems undeniable the guy is biting the hand which feeds him by making such a statement. Is that OK? "How would you describe the default V3 body?" It's pretty damn good, really. Can you model something of that quality yourself? And make it usable in Poser while you're at it? If so, then never mind this. Anybody else who has a problem with me having a problem with people insulting DAZ' creations, all I can say is, talk to the hand.

If you have Wardrobe Wizard it's not a problem at all, everything so far has fit her. Marque

It's so refreshing to see such ungrateful shits on Thanksgiving. I guess I'll pass on making stuff for GND and Irina if everybody is going to be a cranky bitch about it. Miki and Jessi, here I come! -Starkdog

"cranky bitch"? What's so cranky about pointing out ingratitude? And where does it say we should bow down and worship those who make stuff FOR SALE? An old saying in the retail biz: "The customer is always right." ;)

Why would anyone put clothes on such a beautiful body? Anyway, as noted, Wardrobe Wizard will handle the clothing problem nicely.(If you REALLY want to conceal that shape)

Gratitude for what ... for buying V3, her maps and morph packs? LOL

Victoria 3.0 Base Price: $39.95 <- because she wasn't free as she was released in 2003!
Victoria 3.0 Head Morph Pack Price: $19.95
Victoria 3.0 Body Morph Pack Price: $19.95
Victoria 3.0 Universal Texture Maps (High Res) Price: $24.95
Victoria 3.0 Male Morph Pack Price: $19.95
V3 Morph Expansion Pack 1 Price: $19.95

And describing the default V3 body as shapeless is not insulting but simply the truth. I am not sure why I would have to be able to model my own figures in order to make comments about the V3 default body. And actually this is the first time that someone states the default body is pretty nice. When you dig a bit in this forum you will see that people used already a lot of other words to describe V3 and her default face and body. But then those people probably payed for V3 and did not get her for free. Maybe I would not say anything about a freebie but I think as a customer - who you said is always right - I have every right to express my opinions about a commercial product that I bought the day it was released!

And that is not insulting DAZ' creations - as a DAZ PA I do not insult their products or other people's products - but this is simply about stating a fact.

"And that is not insulting DAZ' creations - as a DAZ PA I do not insult their products or other people's products - but this is simply about stating a fact." And, this is not about you, anyway. As I believe I mentioned above, some people would rush to the defense. Well, in any event, I can concede that it might be diferent for someone who had to pay for V3. :/ I didn't, because DAZ now offers the mesh for free. Still though, I can honestly say I would be happy nonetheless, because it IS a good mesh. Far better than "Judy", at least. FAR better! So, you cite examples of people complaining? OK. So it was in response to those complaints that an improvement was created by BH. That's all well and good, but it's a piece of software, still (do you insult Windows or Mac...never mind, stupid question...), and, whether I'm right or wrong, I still think it's wrong to insult your source, whether you think you did it better or not. We can agree to disagree, or drag this out; I doubt that either of us will change the others' mind. ;)

ahem Let's keep it civil, folks. And, it's all nice and fine to disagree with someone's description of their product. It's quite another to use a derogatory word to describe said description. MorriganShadow Poser Moderator

I'm sorry; I forgot to address this: "And actually this is the first time that someone states the default body is pretty nice." I try to create such things with Lightwave. My experience is more towards architectural modeling and not organic, but I look at something like V3 and I see something that's not particularly easy to do, to say the least. Maybe for those who are used to it and doing it regularly, but, not for me. Therefore, I have a certain appreciation for models such as V3.

I had a tee shirt and panties set in free stuff (See the attached pic)for GND2 for a while I could look for another place to host it and repost if if there's a need. I also have a few other items I've been working on but I've been waiting to see what Starkdog has in his set to see what might be needed. mike

"If his GND relies on DAZ' V3 character, shouldn't he show a tad more gratitude, as opposed to being outright insulting towards it? I mean, no V3, no GMD. Right?" You have a point there eudoxus! I can never understand that. It's like someone buying or taking a regular GM car and adding a spoiler and a few stripes and a low profile and mag wheels and then trying to make resales by spouting off how shapeless and boring a regular GM car is!! Lol!! If this was "newly built model" stuff your all talking about I'd perhaps get the point of new and better and the competitive attitude with one of the very hands of the "Daz" that feeds you to be able to create all this stuff in the first place so you can have your shining star moment, but you know what, if I buy add on nails it really don't make my nails any better than they are already, just prettier maybe, accentuated, but they are still my nails and I'm glad about them and won't go yelling they're shapeless on they're very own. Without my real nails, those clip on's would be garbage!!

Blackhearted used to have an image in his gallery explaining precisely what he found unaesthetic about V3's default shape. I didn't agree with all of his opinions, but it was well-reasoned and convincingly presented. There is such a thing as "advertising hyperbole", and Blackhearted isn't exactly known for subtety in his opinions or expressing them. If you don't like him calling V3's original body "shapeless", perhaps you should either 1) take it up with Blackhearted or 2) shrug your shoulders and move on to the next product. No, I'm not "defending" him, just commenting on the "knickers in a knot" mood of this thread. ;-) bonni

Well, that's good advice there bonni. trutyh be told, I didn't want to be involved in this anyway, ut when I saw that quote... Never mind. However...However well-reasoned anything can be, there will be those who see it diferently...case in point... V3 is not "perfect" but then again, who decides such things? Me? You? BH? DAZ? Well, actually I do, but I'm not allowed to talk about it or show examples. :)

Trav, Go ahead and re-post your freebie kit. I am working on some other things which won't overlap. I like the shirt and shorts. Is the shirt conforming or dynamic? -Starkdog

V3 is not "perfect" but then again, who decides such things? Me? You? BH? DAZ? In this case, it's "people who would be likely to buy Blackhearted's custom V3 morph". ;-) This thread has inspired me. I'm gonna make a "knickers in a knot" image, not unlike the "dead horse" one (and this is directed at NO ONE, it's just my silly sense of humor kicking in). Then I can just post it in threads.... ;-P bonni

I always wondered about one thing while browsing these forums? Why do some of you sign your names at the end of your posts like we don't know who it is just from the title where it tells us anyways? It just seems so funny because you know we already know who you are when you post it so why bother telling us again? Maybe one day I will get the shock of my life and see a post where it says by so and so and the name is different at bottom!! Lol!! Oh dear, my dog is barking to get in, better go before she howls up a storm and upsets the neighbourhood! LornaW

Why do some of you sign your names at the end of your posts like we don't know who it is just from the title where it tells us anyways? Because my name isn't "elizabyte". ;-) bonni

My name is Sparky8..so there

FYI, it's the community support that makes a model successful or not. You can come up with the best 3d figure ever if no one bothers to work with it, create add ons, new morphs, textures and characters you can forget about it. No add ons, no community support and no one will use your figure what means in return no sales of the original figure in the end. So, if you want to talk about gratitude then this should go both ways and I guess it does anyway since those who create original figures know how important community support for their figures is and appreciate the efforts of those merchants who create products for their figure and the people who buy this products and use them.

I remember getting a rebate for V3 when they kicked her down for free, which I thought was pretty great for folks who might not have had the money to buy her. I happen to like all of the Daz characters, and I also buy a lot of morphed characters. I use the default V3 and I don't find her to be shapeless. I challenge anyone to walk downtown today and point out, with the exception of twins or triplets etc. two women who look perfect or who are exactly the same. What is the perfect shape? Is it V3? GND? One of wyyrmaster's morphs? (sorry if I didn't get that name spelled correctly). Is it one of Thorne's characters? See I bought all of those morphs because I like variety, and so do my clients. If I only used one character I would soon be out of business. I have one client who absolutely loves V3 and another who almost fell out of her chair when I showed her GND. If we all had the same idea of what makes a beautiful woman or handsome man it would be a pretty boring world. Marque And I sign my name at the end out of courtesy and habit.

I also happen to like V3 right out of the box, too, but I am in fact morphing her. Not to "improve" but to make her different. Puntomaus, you are right about the community support, and yes it does work both ways. I'm just thinking, if I created something like V3 and then read someone calling her shapeless, yeah, I'd be a little offended. Oh well, what does it really matter anyway... if that's the worst thing I read here all week, I'll be lucky. ;)

Please, this thread is to find some tips to dress her, not to blame the author for the 'v3 shapeless' affair... Please, let's talk about the way to convert clothes to her. Someone used 'Taylor'? Wich clothes did you modify? Good results? etc.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12413&Form.ShowMessage=2484231

For those interested in new cloths for GND2 please look in on my thread on the Product Showcase Forum. Thanks mike

I keep hearing about wardrobe wizard, but I don't have it. Nor do I want to mess around with clothing all the time. Yeah second skin stuff is all very well - but it is not what I'm looking for. Nor do I want to have to buy all new stuff that only fits one figure. Sorry folks. I'm unemployed atm, so I have to weigh up every purchase very carefully. Buying new clothing for a figure morph is not falling into the "Must have" category. Aside from that I render fantasy stuff. Jeans and T-Shirt, panties and vest simply aren't something I'd ever buy for any character, even if it looks great. It's just not what I render. I'll do without her. And no, I don't want to buy Wardrobe Wizard either. Looking at the price of it... $60 is simply not ever going to be considered by me. I can't afford it, and that's that. Quite frankly... To be told "You can fit stuff if you use (insert tool of choice)" is a fricken cop-out. Basically, the answer here appears to be that nothing produced for the regular V3 is going to fit GND unless you buy clothing modelled for her, or use a 3rd Party tool to make it fit. That's really all I was asking. :) She looks gorgeous - but I don't render naked, I don't like "Second Skin" options because all the ones I've seen lack depth and the texture 99% of the time cannot deal with closeups. I cannot produce shadows where there is no edge, and the 'Displacement' stuff I've seen so far (friend of mine got one) simply... isn't. It's not creating ridges of any kind, and trust me, we've tried all manner of settings. I don't remember which texture it was, I'd have to ask her.

*"Quite frankly... To be told "You can fit stuff if you use (insert tool of choice)" is a fricken cop-out. Basically, the answer here appears to be that *nothing* produced for the regular V3 is going to fit GND unless you buy clothing modelled for her, or use a 3rd Party tool to make it fit. That's really all I was asking. :)"* Well if you are unemployed then your priorites are obviously different than someone with income to dispose of on " computer 3D girl figures" the bottum line is this : you can get the free V3 and leave her in her default state and use whatever freebies/lowcost items that are avalable for her default state. if you want variety and wish to create images that are different from the standard free V3 clone, then there will be a cost involved, particularly if you do fantasy /Sci fi etc as I do. this Blackhearted "GND2" character set looks vastly different from the ubiquitous V3 DAZ clone way better in my opinion. And since you dont "render naked" you can apply the GND head only to a standard V3 body and still have hve her wear V3 clothing as i did in this render(pic) I have Wardrobe wizard so permanently refitting clothing to any human figure is not an issue for me anyway ;-)

What are the expressions like with GND btw? And that one that looks like A. Jolie - I don't think I've ever seen one of BH's girls with an actual expression. They look great, but I have a horrible suspicion they can't smile, yell, say "Boo" etc...

Can't speak for BH and GND, but my version of V3 can open up and say, "Ahhh" pretty good. Not morphs, but teeth, gums and tongue as separate figures parented to V3 with the original teeth, gums and tongue morphed into nonexistence to get them out of the way. None of the Vickis smile well, but V3 is better than the previous two. This is the beginning of my GAH figure, BTW. She's the "*Girl Across the Hall*". ;)

Hmmm, good idea! I actually have those Millenium Teeth floating around somewhere. So the tongue would be from a pre-loaded V3, turned off in heirarchy editor (or parameters) leaving only the tongue part? Do you just select and parent the tongue as you would any other prop? Concerning expressions on morphed faces - I've had some bad results getting expressions out of faces I've made twiddling dials - I'm pretty sure BH uses custom magnet morphs, but the suspicion remains.

Hmmm... You're talking poser technical stuff... I don't know. What I did was to open V3's mouth, so the teeth get a little separated, then exported the head as .obj, NOT "as morph target". Imported it into LightWave and selected the teeth and gums materials and copied/pasted them into their own layer. Then applied the .OBJ UV textures to them, added a "dummy" prop as a mid-point, re-imported into PPP and added bones for the "dummy", Upper teeth, and Lower teeth. Then, parented the body of that figure to the head of V3. Dd the same for the tongue, but no "dummy" needed. I have no idea how to do it with just Poser.

Doing such things creates a world of new possibilities.

*Sorry this has nothing to do with clothing V3. ;)

Okay - I'm familiar enough with LW to know what you're saying there. In Poser, you have the ability to "switch off" any named part of a figure in the heirarchy editor menu/windows/heirarchy editor. If you then parented the remaining tongue to the head of a newly imported V3 with her tongue and teeth turned off, it should work the same way without leaving Poser. Daz released a product pre Gen3 called Millenium Teeth which are a set of hi-rez gnashers (with morphs etc) which should slot in nicely without having to load yet another V3. I've noticed with P6 figues after you get them out of the face room their teeth are all messed up, so I may be able to pull some similar moves there. Food for thought... Cheers!

I don't know much about P5 0r P6, but in P4 PPP (Damn, it's so complicated communicating, LOL!), as far as I know the only things that can be turned off/altered/exported are body parts. Such as the Head. Teeth, tongue, lacrimal, nostrils, etc., are materials and not parts, but necessarty parts of the Head mesh. If there's a way to separate materials from meshes in Poser 4 PPP, I have no idea, but would love to hear about it if it's possible. * Oh, and, no, it's not possible to clothe V3, so don't even try; she was born to be nude. :)

Damn, you're right...tongue etc aren't named separately in heirarchy...you would have to make the head mesh invisible through material settings - which would give you that annoying "ghost" in the preview/work pane. I think Appollo Max has a tongue that is a separate parented figure (I'll have to go check of course - checked - yep, teeth and tongue are separate meshes) so that could act as a stand in. AMax's creator must've had the same thoughts about the situation that you have! Cheers

Damn, you're right...tongue etc aren't named separately in heirarchy...you would have to make the head mesh invisible through material settings - which would give you that annoying "ghost" in the preview/work pane. I think Appollo Max has a tongue that is a separate parented figure (I'll have to go check of course - checked - yep, teeth and tongue are separate meshes) so that could act as a stand in. AMax's creator must've had the same thoughts about the situation that you have! Cheers

hey folks, seems im a little bit late. i dont check my rosity IMs as often as i should (thank you to the person who pointed this thread out to me), nor do i browse the forums or galleries much. i do check my email very often, however, so if you want a prompt response from me thats the way to go :) unfortunately unless i get an email like 'hey black, have you seen the thread about you/your product/image/etc in the Poser forum?' odds are ill never see it. thank you very much to those who defended me and my product in this thread in my absence, and offered solutions. im going to try and answer some of the questions posted, while sidestepping some of the baiting: 1. the default V3 body is shapeless. i could go on and on about why its shapeless, but im really too busy to rehash all this right now. it has nothing to do with her weight, or her tone - it has to do with her unrealistic body proportions and anatomy. not only do i find her shapeless, i find her completely uninteresting and lacking character. now whether or not you like my morph has nothing to do with what i type in my promo text, what i say here, or my opinions/tastes. her body is clearly visible in the promos - you either like it or you dont. if you dont like it, move on - noone is pushing you to buy it, least of all me. regardless of wether or not you like it, however, you have to admit that it is clearly different than the original V3. variety is the spice of life. id rather the marketplace be full of different bodies for V3, even if i didnt like 9/10 of them, than have them all look the same. as for me being ungrateful? well.. perhaps in a way. however its the add-on creators like me - freestuff and marketplace - that breathe life into an original figure. and honestly i really could haave morphed it out of ANY figure out there, i simply chose V3 because she is the most widely used, and (ATM) free. i spent weeks pushing around practically every single vertice: give me another free model of approximately the same density that the majority of poser users use and ill gladly work on that instead. theres a flipside to working with V3. i shoulder all of the V3 issues with my product, even though i have nothing to do with them. like her poor joints, her pancake thigh, etc. im finding myself supporting those even though theyre faults inherant in the original model. 2. shes a full custom morph, so fitting her with clothing is going to take some effort. i state this in my readme. products such as wardrobe wizard exist to enable a poser user to morph any of their vast existing poser libraries to just about any morph. yes, its a $60 product, but its functionality extends far beyond just this one product - mines not the only custom morphed figure out there. im not sure how the licensing works with it, but you could even ask your friend - if they own WW - to do it for you with their copy. the tailor will also work, with results ranging from excellent to poor depending on the clothing mesh, and most people have that at this point. i am working on clothing: the problem is that i model everything myself, so it takes time. i dont have a studio full of people at my beck and call to create content for her. why didnt i release her with clothing? because there are solutions like WW, and many people do not buy clothing at all but postwork, do nude renders, etc. the clothing that i create is going to be on par with the irina: adventuress set, so its not something i can whip out over a weekend. i could whip something out over the weekend but its not something that i want reflecting me in my store. i dont upload half-assed products - its unfair to the customer. the head morph can also be loaded separately, and - as many people have shown - used in all sortsof renders. i like to think that the texture set holds up as not just 'filler' but is as good as ones in texture-only sets out there. 3. the face morphs: i dont really do many expressions in my own renders merely because im never happy with how the poser models look with their mouths open. nothing against V3 (because its common among all poser figures), they just look inhuman. there are certain poses and expressions common among all poser figures that just look like crap with the current rigging/morphing system in poser. i alter nothing structural with my morphs, any morphing around the lip area i check to make sure it looks OK with her mouth open. any faults with open mouths, joints, etc are inherited from the base model - AFAIK i dont introduce any new ones. Silke: its pretty evident in this entire thread - from the first post onwards - that youve already decided that the product was not for you and you didnt want to buy it. suggestions offered by helpful people were shot down immediately - from 3rd party apps to freebies, second skin, etc. you even state that you wouldnt buy clothing made specifically for the model. thats perfectly fine, everyone makes up their own mind about what they like/dont like... but after reading all that, i really dont see what i can do to make you happy other than stop producing custom figures entirely? youve basically left no other option. and im not being sarcastic -- im just really at a loss for words here. i flat out refuse to create 'clothing packs' or outfits for the V3 default body, not because of any politics or inconvenience, but because i dont think they look good on her default body. thats my personal opinion, and invariably will affect every product that appears in my store. i usually have outfits preplanned, and create curvier bodies to wear those outfits. that said i do have some fantasy/sci-fi outfits in the works for this particular product, perhaps youll reconsider when theyre released. its unlikely, however, that i will create morphs for those outfits to fit the default vicky body simply because i dont think that type of clothing looks good on her. theres no way i can influence, sway or coerce someone to like my products, nor would i try. at the current time there are enough people that like my products to justify my putting them in the store, when there comes a time that there arent, ill go look for another line of work. trav: that looks awesome. love the pose too, really shows off her legs. ill gladly host any freebies anyone produces for my products, contact me via email and we can set something up. cheers, -gabriel

Thanks for answering the question about expressions. Cheers!

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12413&Form.ShowMessage=2484231

bigjobbie the GND2 in at the end of this thread uses the standard V3 injections for the expression. Blink, mouth ioen and eybrow arch, this no problem. mike

Well, I still disagree about V3 being shapeless or "lacking character", but it occurred to me through reading this that it's likely you see the V3 character differently, since you look at such things with the intent of altering. I guess like the way a sculpter looks at a chunk of clay; I might see a perfectly nice rock, whereas he sees a shapeless clump waiting to be made into something. Peace.