Hi all. Blizzard here, (formaly known as Northeaster). I'm having a bit of a "missunderstanding with the texture files I'm creating. Has anyone succesfully created textures & maps in Adobe Illustrator? I've done textures & maps both in Illusrator & Photoshop. I prefer Illustrator as I beleive it allows me more quick editing/control. But I get wierd seems after exporting to a jpg. Some other problems I solved & don't believe are a factor; Keeping the jpg in rgb & having no extruding images outside the page border. Should I give up on Illustrator? Or maybe there is some general idea/rule I'm missing? I don't get it. Am I missing something? If I manualy place a supplied jpg for the YT bodysuit I get no seems. But if I then place that same very jpg in an Illustrator document and export it as a jpg I get weird seems. It's pretty darn close to seamless but not perfect. Document size is the same as it is in Photoshop. Any replys MUCH appreciated. Many Many Thanks. Scott

Hi Scott, Personally I don't use Illustrator. I use Photoshop CS for intricate work and Elements for quick jobs. For jpg's there is a general rule to never overwrite the image, delete it first then save, but never "replace". Not abiding by this rule can result in a lower quality output. Also, in Photoshop it, for whatever reason, is better to flatten the layers before saving as a jpg, I don't know why but my final quality seems to better that way. When you save as a jpg where are the seams being a problem? What specifically are turning out bad? Tim

I never start with jpgs only save to them when need be.

In an effort to try to explain this better I did some more messing about & thankyou I think I'm on to something.

So I've gotten a bit further with this, still a little confused but am hoping for success.
There are two ways to get to where I was yesterday.

1. place the text map (created in UV mapper) into Illustrator and to get the intial outline trace it's edges with the pen tool. From there create the cloth images ect.
   or
2. open that text map in Photoshop create a path around it's outside edges and use that in Illustrator.
   I prefer the latter as it saves unessacary time with the pen tool.
   For some odd reason the path I create in Photoshop is a bit wider then the Text Map I created from UV mapper? Height is fine???
   The image on the left is where I was yesterday.
   The right one is now after narrowing my outline by 90%
   I had the same problem with the texture on my Feary Scene but luckily some where either not showing or in areas that were not visible.
   Anyway I'm not there yet but close.

Thanks.

Scott

Are you applying textures (second skin) to the figure? If yes, then are you using a "default" template? It looks to me like no. I can email you a template we use for our second skins. This might make things easier for you, or perhaps you already thought of this...?

Just a wild guess here so bear that in mind. Since you're dealing with two different things, vector images in Illustrator and bitmap images in Photoshop...perhaps in the conversion process vector->bitmap (aka raster), you're losing the 1-1 correspondence?

These are for Daz's body suits. I've not worked with second skins yet. Most of what I've done so far with the body suits, I think, could be done with second skins & a bump map as they don't need to be bulky looking like clothing. In the future My desire is to create real life clothing using the same idea as the above with these Body Suits. I've got them for Steph to. I tryed this different ways, the most sensible It seems would be create an obj in Poser from the actual item I want a texture for. Sounds good right? The textures supplied are different page sizes. Just another part of it that I don't understand. Another thought is does UV mapper only give you a flattened template of your 3d item or is there info imbedded in it that poser needs? Yes I would be interested in giving these skins a look. Most apprecited! Though I have some plans to use Steph in scenes later on, I'm still hooked on scenes with Luke & Laura. What err who are the templates for? Thanks again. Scott

And take that idea a step further lmckenzie, since I'm starting in Photoshop/bitmap it's Bitmap>Vector>bitmap. :>/ Somthing new, something used, something borrowed... I wouldn't be at all surprised if this had something to do with it. One things for sure... Make the maps in Photoshop and you get seamless results quick. I find creating multi color items with borders ect. like roses is much easier for me in Illustrator & much easier to adjust lateron & turning it into a trans map, a breeze. If I can just get it seemless I'll be crusing. Thanks Scott

Don't know if it's relevant but I tried an experiment with Ink9000 a little utility for doing line/toon renders of .obj files. It let's you export as Illustrator .ai, as well as .tga bitmap files. I loaded the .tga in my editor, PhotoPaint, and then imported the .ai file. By default, the .ai was 1 pixel different from the .tga (883x660 vs 883x661). Whether I used the default or resized to match, pasting one over the other, they do not match up exactly--almost but not quite.

Yes it's relevent. That's how I figured it out also. Pasting the UV created Map under my texture. 10% wider but no higher. Weird??? Scott

"Weird???"....No not really. You WANT the texture to spill over the borders of the template just a little to prevent the joined seams from showing. Making a path around the template contains (restricts) the texture well within the template. Depending on the stroke weight of the path, the thickness can restrict the texture from even meeting the borders by several pixels. Dont know why you think you should be making a path around the template but it is really needless, and counterproductive. Hope that helps, SWAMP (Chuck)

"...create an obj in Poser..." There should be an .obj in the geometries folder already that you should be using. Look at the top of the .cr2 file in a text editor if you need to find out where it's located. A lot of the items from Daz have templates already made that you can download. I assume that you're just using the existing mapping. If you remap or create a new map you'll have to save the .obj file (preferably under a new name) and change the references (2) in the .cr2 file to point to the new .obj file--apologies if you already know all that :-) You can choose the size of the template when you save it in UVMapper as whatever size you want e.g. bigger if you need better detail. The template is just a template, the mapping info is saved in the .obj file. That's why if you change things e.g. change planar mapping to box mapping, you have to save the .obj file. And it looks like Mr. Swamp has answered the mystery question--makes sense to me at least.

A suggestion on using Illustrator. Create your vector textures in Illustrator, and then transfer them to Photoshop with the jump to button. Apply (copy/paste) the vector image to the UV map in Photoshop, size the layer properly (using partial transparency), and then rasterize the layer. Photoshop does a much better job of rasterizing than Illustrator, especially when scale is critical.

(Dont know why you think you should be making a path around the template but it is really needless, and counterproductive). Thankyou. I do have a way of making things more difficult then they need be. I guess since every texture trans ect I've gotten/seen all have those filled outlines I thought it was the outside white space that somehow poser looked for or expected. A follow up question comes to mind... Does canvas size effect the way poser wraps the texture? I imagine it must? If it is higher or shorter whould I get a skewed wrap in Poser? Thanks for the feedback. Many Thanks Scott

"I imagine it must? If it is higher or shorter whould I get a skewed wrap in Poser?"

From my experience I have to say no and yes. Let's say no, when rendering there is a render option that allows you to change the maximum size of the texture. I say yes because the height seems to have to be a certain ratio from the width (example, I use 3000px/W X 4000px/H skins). Of course, I could be totally off, I'm relatively new to Poser and am basing my opinion(s) on personal experience.

Message edited on: 01/06/2006 10:58

This is very interesting. Some of the maps I've opened I remember seemed smaller compered to others that were huge. The detail quality difference in your image has me wondering if my maps may be to small? Course there's not alot of detail in what I've done so far but certainly this is something to keep in mind. Thankyou. Scott

(You WANT the texture to spill over the borders of the template just a little) (I say yes because the height seems to have to be a certain ratio from the width) Overlap being importent, my adjustments/reduction to get my outline to match my UV map may have been an improper fix. Possibly I should have been enlarging the height instead. Lots of great help/feedback here. Many Thanks. I'm finding it hard to want to use Photoshop instead of Illustrator. But I'm working on that. ") We'll see where future maps take me. Thanks Again.

Hey Blizz, IM me with your email and I'll shoot you the template I was talking about. Tim

I'm no expert so take my statements with a large grain of salt. There is no real "standard" map size, even for a particular figure, though something like the templates Daz provides might form a popular standard. Beyond that though, it's pretty much up to the person making them. You can create whatever size you want in UVMapper. You can also create separate maps for areas that you want to detail more like lips or buttons for instance. That way, you don't have to create a huge face map just to have hi-rez lips. How big is big enough? What I've heard is that the map size should roughly match the final rendered image size. This make sense to me. That is to say, for a portrait where the face is going to take up most of a 1024x768 image then a 1200x1200 face map would be good. The same map would be overkill for a image where the face of the figure is only going to be around 200x200 pixels. In the latter case, you could easily afford to resize the face map down and save memory. Now obviously, if that is the case then a lot of these 3000x3000 type maps are way more than is needed for the typical render (print I don't know about). Maybe the idea is to make it large enough that features like eyes, lips, nipples, etc. are big enough. It would seem to me to be better to give those features their own appropriately sized maps but maybe I'm missing something. When you're talking about seams/seamless, are you talking about just a border around the whole texture or are you talking about seamless patterns? Getting things to match up across seams like a tattoo that wraps around the body is apparently difficult no matter how you do it. If you do a search in free-stuff for SnowSultan, he has a lot of templates that are colored to help in seam matching. AFAIK, the vast majority of people use a bitmap editor to do textures. Whether that's because there's an inherent difficulty with vector apps or limitations on what you can do or simply popularity I don't know.

Attached Link: http://www.daz3d.com/shop.php?op=itemdetails&item=2772

Scott, The template I am using (for our second skins) is blank (all black) with no lines representing seams. It is slightly over-sized. I didn't know if you could use it or not, I just thought I'd throw the offer out to you. Regards, Tim

Many thanks for the offer DuBetz.
No need though to pass them along. ")
Many thanks for all the help.

I've been working on something, I've done the texture in Photoshop outer seams are perfect. Transfering my art from Illustrator as Fringewood stated is what I'm doing now.
This is a tuff transition for me. Don't get me wrong Photoshop Is a great app but I'm finding creating & changing & editing colors in it very difficult.
Even with the tolerence set at 200 I'm not getting full fills.
I really wish Illustrator would cross over to Poser better for me.
I'm talking bodysuits here now.
Not simply appling materials to pre shaped clothing.
I'm trying to turn these suits into shorts shirts tanktops ect...

Thanks again.

Scott

The front/back gap is almost certainly because your pattern/painting whatever isn't extending far enough edgewise. The edges of the torso are where the front and back meet. Of course you know that to do shorts, etc., you need a transparency map in addition to a texture map. The trans maps should be easy to do in PhotoShop. You mention not getting a full fill--it would be extremely hard to fill the lined template. I use the magic wand to select the white empty area and then just invert the selection and fill with a solid color. Perhaps if you post a more specific look at what you want to do we could give more suggestions. I can see where Illustrator might be useful for some things but it sounds almost like you're using it to do some things that should be pretty easily done in PhotoShop--it may just take learning a few new techniques.

I think I'm dead in the water on this. I greatly appreciate your percistance. :>)))) See next two threads for pics. I just did yet another bunch of tests in Illustrator. (including rasterizing before exporting) Then I did One test in Photoshop. (dragging my flowers over to Photoshop) All Illustrator tests failed showing seams. Photoshop had success no seams. But I can create and more importantly edit far better in Illustrator. Doing it in Photoshop is harder. Maybe thats just me. (I'm going to recreate this in Photoshop & see how it goes). But to explain things a bit more... To go from my 1st image/attachment to a Trans map in Illustrator is extremely easy & gives vector-sharp results. And if my gradient is to high or low or to dark or light... Adjustment is a snap. All I have to do is drag my sliders one way or the other. I'm thinking Photoshop will not be so easy. I can create this in Photoshop just future adjustment of it is tuffer for me. Again I'm days away from giving PSD a valiant effort. Thanks again! Scott

Will see what a couple days of Photoshop does for me.

Thanks Again

Scott

OK, your flowers aren't on the seams, only the front of the garment. To me, I'd try copying just the flowers and pasting them onto the basic filled PhotoShop template. Since they don't appear to cross the edges, scale shouldn't be critical. I'm not sure how to reconcile that with the complex transparency map though. For just the texture, you could simply fill the empty white area (post 28) with black and that would fix the seam problem. The trans map would be more difficult. If you can't enlarge reliably, perhaps you can use the clone tool and just go around the edges of the trans map and duplicate a couple of pixels all the way around. Have you tried asking in the PhotoShop forum? Very nice design BTW.

Message edited on: 01/09/2006 21:41

The part I love about Illustrator is switching from Textures to Trancparencies.
For some of the simpilar cloths, Trancparencies might not be so critical. What I'm trying to accomplish here is custom stuff using the body suits. I could copy to Photoshop but would rather not. I'll spend alot of time trying not to spend alot of time. ;) Which I think I've accomplished. (see next post)

I'm leaning towards using trancparency gradients in some of my future ideas, which is where Illustrator for me will work best.
I've worked with them quite a bit thus far.
I do think I need to take a break and see what I can accomplish with other preformed clothing for awhile.

Scott

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=1134832&Artist=blizzard&Start=1&ByArtist=Yes

Dude, outstanding, that image is so cool! Glad you finally found a way to make it all work. Have you managed to get anything as complex as the design above working? I'd like to see what the gradient transparency effect looks like.

Unfortunetly that file was before I changed Poser to embed morphs & I lost it's morphs. I do plan on recreating her for another scene. It may be a few days though. (Dude, outstanding) Thanks. This poser stuff is tuff. Lots of crashes making RockStars. I have a few versions/saves for that one. Currently if I open the latest file & go to Materials... CRASH! :>( Unuseable. It's very frustrating. I've got a second Computer & am going to work on transfering everything over to it. I still have to pick up & install some more ram though. But I'm curious how it will behave being a clean system. Scott

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=1128347&Start=1&Artist=blizzard&ByArtist=Yes

Lovely image and so totally different from the other one. The transparency gives kind of a body paint look--not sure if you're going for that or a clothing look. Using the bodysuit gives you versatility for using it with various body textures. You could also play with the bodysuit to get a that kind of somewhat glossy look paint on skin has if the former. Be painful if it were a tattoo but I bet faeries are tough :-)