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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 26 1:43 pm)
Subject: making body parts invisible to try to "lighten the load" during rendering
You can click the eyeball in the Hierarchy window to make the parts invisable. If you hold down alt while turning off the part this way it will turn everything below it in the hierarchy (i.e. alt click the hand will turn off the hand and all the finger segments.) i dont believe turning off visable in raytrace and cast shadows on a item that is not visable is going to help.
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Tyger_purr....wow, thanks for that reply! I didn't know that...it seems such a simple thing, but I'll be there's a million simple things I don't know that would help me ;D momodot....those are some great questions!! ones I'd like to get some answers for...different points of view sure would be wonderful as seeing things from many people's perspectives can sometimes teach you things you would otherwise never learn...
Say what you mean and mean what you say.
Raise your minimum shading rate to 2.00(major power save) This will make the hair look choppy. Instead go to paint and resize hair texture and trans to 50%. Switch them in matroom (hair is a pig). I would lower Max texture to 1024. Doubt you need all that much for this scene. Save to a new name and reboot poser to shake off the stored memory. You may need "use displ maps" checked Should do it...You don't need shadows or visible in RT for those hair props. Too short. Ao (on head) will take care of it Good luck. Your pc is plenty big enough.
Can't Poser 6 render in 1/4 sections that can be pieced together easily in a graphic program? I haven't tried it, but I thought I had read something about that, and how great it was for large scenes.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
Acadia, are you talking about the plop renderer, where you can render a specific portion of the scene, as big or small as you want, or is there some other way to tell Poser to split it up into 4 portions? that's VERY interesting, and it would be great if it could be done that way to reduce the memory usage and therefore all the memory errors I keep getting ;D
Richardson, I've always wondered about how I should determine what my max texture size should be...I thought it should match, or at least be really close to, the size I'm rendering at...just fyi, I will be printing my renders on a large format printer, probably 11x14 or even 16x20 or larger...that's why I need the higher quality, my images are not just for posting in the gallery here...so, you think 1024 would be good for this render of 3000x3000? how should I go about determining the appropriate size for my scene...what componenets of the scene do I look at to make that determination? your thoughts and advice are REALLY appreciated! thanks for the help :) Karen
Message edited on: 01/22/2006 13:46
sorry for all the edits...I'm a bit slow today and keep thinking of another question after I've editted ;p
Message edited on: 01/22/2006 13:48
Message edited on: 01/22/2006 13:51
Say what you mean and mean what you say.
I have a DPI chart for 100, 200 and 300 DPI...@ 200 DPI if i want an 11x14 I'd render the whole image 2800x2200 or 4000x3200 for 16x20, for example...or @300 DPI I'd render 4200x3300 for 11x14 or 4800x6000 for 16x20... but I guess what I was trying to get at, is I don't know how to determine what size I should set my texture size say for the Vicki character in the above scene, in relation to the total scene size, to make it look okay...let's see if I can explain what I'm wanting to know...if the Vicki above takes up 1/3 of the scene, and my scene is 3000x3000, do I therefore calculate the max texture size at approximately 1/3 of that, or 1000 pixels? I hope I'm explaining my question properly...probably not...hehe...I just want to understand how you came to the 1024 max texture size above ;)~
Say what you mean and mean what you say.
I don't know what "Plop" rendering is, but Poser 6 has an "area render" option. This is what the poser manual says about area rendering. It's on page 118 of the PDF manual:
AREA RENDER
The Area Render feature allows you to select a specific region of your scene to render, thereby allowing you to more quickly view the results of changes to one part of your scene, without having to re-render the entire scene each time. Area Renders appear in the Render tab overlaid on the windows existing image at the time the Area Render was taken, so you can view the (re-)rendered area in the context of your entire scene.
To use the Area Render feature, simply click on the Area Render symbol at the top of the Preview tab. The symbol will turn red, indicating that Area Render has been enabled. Then click and drag within the scene preview area to select the portion of the scene you wish to render. The results will appear in the Render tab of the Document window, using the render settings specified in the Render Settings window, and the render engine specified in the Render Engine Selection menu on the Render tab. Poser will save the most recently rendered image in the Render tab, allowing you to toggle back and forth between the Preview and Render tabs, without losing your rendered image.
********************************************* I've been looking at so many sites and tutorials that I can't remember where I read it, but I did read that the area render is a good way of being able to render a large image in several pieces and then put them together in your graphic program... apparently the edges match up seamlessly. If I remember where I read that I'll post back.
Message edited on: 01/22/2006 15:07
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
ahhh, yes Acadia...that's what I meant, sorry...in Bryce I call it a plop renderer, but area renderer is what I meant...I could always give that a try too, never thought of it...it's a great suggestion...if I keep having the memory problem and not being able to render my image, I'll try that...something rings a bell though about the area rendering, where I think I heard that it still loads all the textures, etc even though you're only rendering a portion of the whole image...I could be, and likely am, wrong...if it IS that way however, that would mean I'd still likely have the memory issues due to the character textures, etc...I hope I'm wrong tho...
one more note, I have used the GlowWorm python and got wayyyyyy further in my render than I ever did before though by rendering in layers...the only trouble I'm having now is with the difuse layer which has the HyperReal and the texturing info, so it's quite a bit "heavier" than the other layers...that's where I can try the area render if I'm still having a problem...thanks for the idea!
Message edited on: 01/22/2006 15:16
Say what you mean and mean what you say.
I remember reading here somewhere about rendering in layers too...can't recall exactly what it was. Maybe someone else can give more information on that. Maybe render shadows in one, and everything else on another then put them together in post work. Not sure if that's what they mean by "rendering in layers" though.
"It is good to see ourselves as
others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we
are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not
angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to
say." - Ghandi
I'll let you figure that one out,,,;P Just keep in mind a texture of say 4000x5333 encompasses Both sides of the (body)texture including the white zone. I'm guessing Poser would not let you render (a skin) one to one or, on a square at 4096max in a 4000x5333 window. Not sure. On the other side of that coin,,, If you save to tiff, it would make an interesting test on your scene. Forget the dpi and just compare 1024max tex to 2048 to 3072 in quality in paint. Zoom in. 2mgs of info there. Compare the filesizes too. The easy way is to just max the settings but I think you hit a wall eventually. The dpi holds (as you know)the print(er) quality info. Separate thing, sort of. So a few more variables for your brain. Half of a 2750 head tex on 10% of your screen...stewer??? Where are ya? If it were me, I'd resize the monster texture(Hyperreal) to 50%. That's a closeup texture. I consider it my best in my library but would not use it full power from this distance. Again,,,in print at a huge dpi, not sure.
Rendering in layers is easy, but its the same thing and rendering passes in glow-worm. here is my advice for you : hide all things that are not visible within the scene go through all body parts and props that ARE visible, and manually edit there Shading Rate. by default everything is .20 change skin to say .5-.8 (especially with face-off's stuff). Leave hair at .2. change things like clothes etc to perhaps 1 or a little higher. things that are far from the background, or really small, change them to around the 2 mark. If you are using displacement (as face off's sking shaders use it) I'd reccoment turning displacement off in the render window. displacement increases the complexity of a model by a HUGE degree. if your doing a close up of a face or other body part, having displacement on looks nice. I dont have glowworm, so Im not sure how it works, but heres a way to render your scene in passes directly in poser 6. open the python window. click render controls. then in there you will find a render pass button (I think thats what its called) If when you are rendering, you can tell from the part that does render that AO is being done at the same time as the color and lighting, tell me, and I will upload a python script that will render just AO for you
TemplarGFX
3D Hobbyist since 1996
I use poser native units
templargfx...I'll give those settings a try when I get a chance and see if it helps...I'm willing to try anything if it'll get my image rendered...the GloWorm renders every layer separately, so I can render my AO by itself, which I did without a problem...it's just the darn diffuse layer that has the biggest load to bear with all the textures and the HyperReal, etc...that's where i need to do my tweaking, it's the only hold up from getting my image rendered ;/
Say what you mean and mean what you say.
ok, in that case, up the shader rate on the skin. like richardson said, hyperreal is an impressively large and detailed texture, along with the several other bits that goes along with it. increasing the shading rate basically decreases the number of sub-pixel calculations for materials and lighting per pixel. this is especially render-saving on scenes with very complex materials. because by going from a shader rate of .2 to a shader rate of .4 your effectively calculating 1/2 as much material as before (basically) defining the shader rate per object is very handy, as it gives you much more control over the details on the scene, rather than simply changing the minimum shading rate in the render window.
TemplarGFX
3D Hobbyist since 1996
I use poser native units
Does turning off visible save memory in the render? Yes. when i did this image (which would not render with everything on) i turned off everything but the ground and background, rendered it then turned on specific parts and did area renders. I Saved each render and assembled them in paint shop pro. >Would blonderella benifit by exporting the whole scene as a single .obj prop, opening a new blank scene, loading the .obj, fixing the transparency setting where needed and then rendering? I dont know for sure but i rather doubt it. doing that would only eliminate the morphs and boning. it would still have to calculate the same textures and polygons. >Is there a rule of thumb for how big the textures should be for a full body scene of 3000x3000? Is there any tool that can resample to give the illusion of higher resolution in an image? My rule of thumb is that it should be the same as the longest dimention of the render although i have never rendered at 3000x3000 nor have i used hyper-real. you might try rendering with a really low setting to see if it will process it or not.
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Glad that GlowWorm is getting you farther than you got before! Here's some additional advice: -If any objects outside of the ones in the frame have textures (like pants), delete them entirely. This will stop Poser from loading their textures into memory. -Save a new Render Preset, through the P6 render settings window, of your settings without raytracing turned on. Then, in GlowWorm, add a new job for your scene, using the render settings from the preset that you just saved. Add the Diffuse Color pass and any other passes you need to do that don't require raytracing (like Glow or Specular). That should help squeeze some extra performance out of your machine.
templargfx...I'll adjust the shader rate per object then and see how far that may get me...where would I make that adjustment on each individual part as opposed to in the render settings? Tyger_purr...nice scene! I can see how you would have had trouble if you didn't render as you did...and as for the max texture size, that is what I was under the impression was how I should determine its' size...that's why I run into problems, because if the longest dimention is 3000, that's a LOT of texture! I'll do as was also suggested however and render at various texture sizes to see if lower ones really make that much of a difference in quality... I am SO grateful to everyone for the suggestions and help...Karen
Say what you mean and mean what you say.
PoseWorks, I wouldn't have gotten this far without it, that's for sure...I know it's just a matter of tweaking things properly...I know the images I make are unusually large, compared to most people...but I want to be able to print my images large, for display purposes...I'm the VP of the local art league and we are trying to introduce CG as a legitimate art form to the local public, so appealing display images and sizes comparable to mainstream art pieces are important...thanks for such a fantastic tool!!!
Say what you mean and mean what you say.
You will find the shader rate option for each object and figure part within the properties dialoge (CTIL-I). the same place you find the "cast shadows" option, and the "visible" option, aswell as the morph dials etc. Are you using smooth edges in your render? if you are, try turning smooth edges off on things that dont really need it. smooth edges option ads more polygons to the object at render time to smooth it out, therefore increasing the amount of calculations that are needed for the render. obviously with rendering such a large image, this will be needed to give smooth detail to some items, but those that are basically straight or have sharper edges do not need it, aswell as object that are already detailed, or small.
TemplarGFX
3D Hobbyist since 1996
I use poser native units
okay, I got it rendered!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! does the happy dance this is the FIRST time I have been able to render one of my images this large without it giving me a memory error and aborting the render... when setting up the diffuse layer in GloWorm, I turned off EVERYTHING that didn't need to be on, including raytracing, and it FINALLY worked...I'll test it some more soon with more renders that I've not been able to get rendered and see if I finally found the rendering formula I need to get 'er done! L if I get a few more images rendered successfully, then it'll be full steam ahead for me... thankyou SOOOOO much to everyone for their input...I've been fighting this battle for so long now, I was about to give up on Poser for the rendering end of my image creation, but now I may not have to! I know that GloWorm is a HUGE part of this success, combined with the right settings...THANKYOU POSEWORKS and THANKYOU EVERYONE WHO GAVE THEIR INPUT :D Karen
Say what you mean and mean what you say.
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"Does turning off visible save memory in the render?" I don't see how it would have anything to do with the render. Rendering is handled by the CPU (Number chrunching) as I recall. Memory has little if anything to do with rendering. Tom
“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”
If you use the FireFly-Renderer, all geometries and all Textures are stuffed in it's Dataspace again, since Firefly does IMHO not use Posers own data structures. So turning off the visibility means, that Firefly does not need this geometry so it is not copied.
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I have started to try to lighten the load on P6 when rendering large like want I do...not that I'm able to render them at all, actually...I still have a huuuuuge problem getting my scenes to render...the most recent is just M3 & V3 with HyperReal and OcclusionMaster, rendered at 3000x3000...even using GlowWorm, I can't get my diffuse pass to render at 3000x3000, because I still get the usual memory error messages...anyway...I went and made all body parts invisible that are not critical for the scene, by going into the properties box and unchecking "visible" for each part...sadly, this still didn't get my scene to render...
my question is, there are also 2 other boxes I am wondering if I should uncheck also...they are "visible in raytracing" and "casts shadows"...I don't know if unchecking them would make any difference...
lastly, is there a faster way to make invisible only the body part I choose to be invisible, instead of having to go into each body part and do so one at a time? is there some way I can do it in the Hierarchy window?
I've included a screenshot of my settings...any advice is most welcomed and appreciated! Karen edit to add: I'm using material based AO via OcclusionMaster on both M3 & V3...I have 3 lights in the scene: 1 spotlight with Shadows checked, depth map set at blur radius 2.0 and min bias .8 and 2 infinte lights...I reduced the texture size to 2500 hoping that would help the scene render...
Message edited on: 01/22/2006 10:23
Say what you mean and mean what you say.