Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=1066531

Well I experimented with GND morphs and Aiko as soon as I got her and discovered that if you inject them fully, you get the full body equivalent of a shrunken head LOL! But if you dial them all down to between .5 and .7 you get an amazingly lovely body. Same with the Bernadette face morph. There's a head shot in in my gallery of Aiko sporting the Bernadette head morph set to about .6 and wearing GND skin. :) It's called System Crash because it was the first thing I did after the devastation of my corrupted 180 Gb external... *edited to include link

Message edited on: 01/27/2006 13:11

so basically what i was asking is: (if you are the type of person who purchases custom characters - please no 'i dont buy custom morphs because..' posts) if a morph offered a highly enhanced body shape, and some other improvements, would you hesitate at the inconvenience of having to download a small (141kb) free application to decode the character. this would only have to be done once, upon install - you are basically just pointing it at the original V3 object that you have to have installed on your system. before i go any further with the idea it would be nice to know roughly what percentage of people would see this as an off-putting inconvenience.

" Well I experimented with GND morphs and Aiko as soon as I got her and discovered that if you inject them fully, you get the full body equivalent of a shrunken head LOL! But if you dial them all down to between .5 and .7 you get an amazingly lovely body." thats exactly how it was done on aiko19, unfortunately. many people are totally unaware of the fact that all of the mil3 morphs are compatible with all of the figures. it makes copyright infringements much more tedious to spot because you have to examine aiko, sp3, etc characters even if your morph was released for V3 (and vice versa).

Nope. I download Capsces clothing fits for Hitoro and Rayne and those require decoding. I don't find it an inconvienence if what I'm getting is superior. :D

Yep, as I said, I commented to a friend that she looked like what I got if I dialed down the GND morphs. That's why I didn't buy her. I found the texture to be substandard and I wasn't going to pay money for something I could do with something I already had. I only wish I had thought of the idea that he'd stolen it. :( I might have been able to save you a month of grief. It never even occured to me that that's what he'd done. Unfortunately, I tend to only see the good in people until it's too late.

I'd buy it Gabe. And do have some of that other merchants products as well. It's a whole 2 seconds work to decode it. It's a "necessary evil" in some cases. And I do see exactly what you're saying above. But we all know infringers get more clever as their ways are found out. That's why I cautioned about saying impossible :p Yes, the folks at Poser Pros are wonderful. I can not say enough how much I appreciate the admin over there!

I'd have no problem using a decoding utility. In fact, I have purchased several products that required decoding - including some of Jim Burton's - and I never regretted those purchases.

Sort of .. Only because that application isn't available for me :) It is jsut a lot more work thatn the two second decode for me and sometimes it doesn't work.

"Only because that application isn't available for me :) " im guessing youre on a mac? is it not mac compatible? are there any alternative 'difference file' type software options? would be neat if daz created an installer with this type of thing integrated that 3rd party creators could use. right now we are pretty much limited to INJ morphs, and thats it. a shame - so much more could be done.

FWIW, it wouldn't put me off buying the product if I liked it. I've used many pcf encoded files in the past and I have no objection to using them in future. Anyhow, if it helps to protect your copyright, I'm all for it.

Yep .. The one you linked to does have a compatable one for OS9 or classic but not for OSX. (Macconvertor) I didn't check the link before but I thought it was the rte one, which currently, doesn't have a version for either variation of the system.

as someone who purchased glamorous jessi and downloaded play with poser's mizuho, i'd have to say i'm kind of on the fence. so decoding was not at all an undue pain in the tuchus with GJ. but then, as far as i know, there aren't several versions of jessi. i didn't think there were that many of aiko, but i couldn't decode mizuho for aiko le, even after re-downloading her. now, i have aiko full as well, and that decoding worked (i just worked at decoding the other cause, damn it, it should have worked). even though mizuho's creator had a very good read me, and my file fit the description, the decoder wouldn't recognize my aiko le file. oh, and i think he had to include multiple versions for different times of dl'ing aiko. i assume belbel won't have that problem, but she's being distributed by daz with aiko le. so with the decoding issue, i'm a bit wary about it working and think that it could be a big headache for merchant, especially considering v3's had 2 or 3 updates (meaning 3 or 4 versions). the trouble decoding takes is minimal, and worth it for a unique or otherwise useful morph. i'd definitely risk the trouble for a product i really liked and/or a merchant who is fairly visible and accessible in the community. basically, i'd have to be unafraid that the merchant would help me if there was a problem decoding. the other issue is extensibility. i'm about as interested in appropriating someone else's idea of beauty wholesale as i am dealing with dmv. i wouldn't have bought miki if she didn't have face room support, and she was only a little more (at the time) than you tend to price your figures. if a figure had one fixed form and v3's joint problems, i wouldn't pay a lot for it. and one appeal of GJ was that jessi doesn't have that many morphs. so i wasn't losing affordances with using her. and, jim please correct me if i'm wrong, i believe if i purchased shahara's bryn for jessi, it would still work on her. also, it would come across as purposely breaking affordances to me. david, s3, aiko, hiro, luke, laura, mattie, matt, the mill baby 3 and v3 can all share morphs. they might look whack, but it works. if freak and m3 were differently grouped, they could too. that's a lot of variablility without needing to actually redo the mesh. if it didn't take existing morphs (like, for instance, dodger's aeon group do), i'd feel the character was deliberately inflexible. that said, an inflexible character would be fine for the load and render crew. i think most people who buy your stuff now wouldn't mind- there are lots of serious blackhearted fans. on a completely separate note, i'm interested in you making dynamic clothing. i definitely prefer it for a lot of clothing types and situations. just out of curiousity, have you tried the conforming / dynamic hybridizing jim burton, english bob and trav are playing with? it seems like the best of both worlds. if you haven't already seen them and in case you're interested, there are threads about it here and at poser pros.

I'm just glad this stopped the steady stream of his (or her) annoying spam.

"just out of curiousity, have you tried the conforming / dynamic hybridizing jim burton, english bob and trav are playing with? it seems like the best of both worlds." cough :) i dont like revealing my work until its actually in the store. theres remains a legally acceptable yet morally questionable attitude of trolling the product showcase forum for product ideas. its no secret that i work slowly (clothing for gnd has been a long time coming), but its because i want to iron out all of the possible issues with it and make sure everything is to the best of my ability. ive been burned before when ive revealed what i was working on and a 'quicker' merchant beat me to release with practically my own product.

Personally I would have no problem purchasing an encoded product IF I thought the product was of a high enough quality to bother. Having purchased from BH's store before, I would say his stuff easily qualifies. That said I probably wouldn't buy an encoded character if it made existing clothing obsolete. If my existing digital wardrobe still worked with the new character (or worked without too much tweaking), then yeah, no problem.

just ask jim - how many copyright violations has he had with his SMV character? and that was pretty much the first non-daz 'morph' (im calling it a morph to simplify things here) of V3 on the market and is still around over 5 years later. Yep, zero, I think, but we did have one guy around here that was claiming HE made her... ;-) I would suggest resizing your figure a bit too, though (V3 is too tall anyway), Glamorous Vickie could be reverse enginnered into a morp set, it would be almost impossable to do that with Ingenue Vickie, who still can use most of the DAZ body morphs (they will all work, only some aren't really right). Sure, existing clothing will not fit, but you can't make an omlet without breaking eggs. Cobaltdream- actually GJ can't use any Jessi morphs other than head morphs, because I had to move most of the joint parting around to get her to bend right. She'll take head morphs and textures, though. Anyway, the technology DAZ uses on their installers (called LOCK,) is available for licence, I think, but I'm under the impression that it is pretty pricey, Renderosity might be able to swing some kind of a deal though, and (maybe) sublicense it to vendors, or something. Other than that, you got Objaction and RTEncoder, the first only does OBJ files and only runs on PCs and pre-OSX Macs, the later doesn't work (mostly) on Macs for reasons I'm not going to go into. I has GJ set up using both, and I bet a lot of the customers downloaded both versions, too. (What, read the instructions on the page? ;-) )

As an Eternal Judy fan, I had to go thru encode to get her going, both for my Mac and PC licenses of Poser. No Problem! 3Dream provided a clear set of instructions. I did not mind the step, because I knew the vendor had a VERY GOOD REASON for proceeding this way...and the result was worth it. ::::: Opera :::::

Same here. I don't mind decoding.

He really accused you of making this up, Gabe? That takes some serious... brass. I guess he doesn't realize that people who do the actual creating don't have time to play games like that. Sorry to hear this. :-(

Gabe I scan all the poser markets every day to keep up with whats out there ... mostly so PW doesnt squash some little merchant by accident ... and its a habit from when I was a mod :) So if theres anything in specific you'd like me to keep an eye out for .. or any other merchant you know... email me (lyrra@renderosity.com) as for Umutov .. I had my suspicions of him more than a year a go. So .. not entirely surprised. Your new body morph sets are fabulous ... not my kind of gal but still gorgeous work :) Lyrra

" He really accused you of making this up, Gabe? That takes some serious... brass. I guess he doesn't realize that people who do the actual creating don't have time to play games like that. Sorry to hear this. :-(" im sure of all people he knew that i didnt make this up. i wasnt going to post any of this, but i just cant resist posting this snippet because of the absolute @%#$ing hypocrisy of it: "Dont forget that you getting my products pulled out temporarily doesnt mean anything. If you read the Renderosity TOS, they pull out any product as soon as there is a complaint. If I wanted to start throwing around accusations about your products, they will have to pull them out too. However, as I said before, that just isnt part of my business ethic and is not the way that I do business. I hope that one day you find some ethics and learn about clean competition, you could even try using them. I wish you success in your life." shakes head

No offense to Blackhearted, but I think that this whole situation should have been kept private. It was obviously dealt with quietly and no one even knew what happened until Blackhearted mentioned it. I think there is a time and place for everything, but "behind the scenes" business and character assassination, regardless of who it's about or what it's about just shouldn't be happening on a public board.

I'm sorry for all the parties concerned, but I really don't like the fact that moderators/admins allow this stuff to go on in public.

Message edited on: 01/27/2006 22:22

so the whole issue should be swept under the rug, and two weeks later umutov should reemerge with some excuse about removing his store, smelling like roses? or set up shop at 3DCommune tomorrow with noone the wiser? 'character assassination' thats pretty rich, given the circumstances. there is no need to assassinate him, he committed Seppuku when he submitted my work in at least 6 submissions to two separate sites. the 2 lines i posted are quite relevant, IMO. i found it monumentallly ironic that someone in his position was smugly lecturing me about my business ethics. if you dislike my stance, thats fine. if/when you become a merchant and find yourself in a similar situation i will be interested to see how you react.

Quote - if you dislike my stance, thats fine.

I dislike any stance that involves airing private dirty laundry in a public venue. Like I said, it's nothing personal against you. I just get tired of seeing private matters aired publically.

The apocalypse is at hand, because I'm agreeing with Gabe, AGAIN. ~waits for lightening to strike~ This is the way it has always worked, just that normally there's much more venom involved. (As a matter of fact, I think I'm not the only one surprised by the calm attitude by Gabe.) We can go back to the Bytemeok and GothicAngel infringement case tactics. On second thought, lets not.

Quote - This is the way it has always worked,

That doesn't make it right.

"I dislike any stance that involves airing private dirty laundry in a public venue." ahh, i see. because this matter was merely some little personal spat between myself and umutov? like quarreling over who gets the TV remote? these werent the first claims filed against him here. i bet you didnt know that? as for these at hand - not only did he involve at least 3 collaborators and a poserpros original bought outright by daz, but also all of the customers who purchased these products in good faith. this involves everyone, and while i wont vent anywhere near my full wrath on this guy, neither will i sit by and have this issue swept under the rug. if you wish to continue this discussion by all means send me an email. i refuse to allow myself to be baited here any more.

Aww c'mon Gabe, it's not like it's your livelihood or anything. /sarcasm

Bait is for fish. So unless you're a fish, you aren't being baited :)

I want to ask what you hope to accomplish here, or rather, what more do you hope to accomplish here?

You've already made public something that was dealt with in a private manner.

You must have had more motive than trying to be helpful to the original poster who was looking for the person's store, otherwise a simple "He doesn't have a store here anymore" would have sufficed. It seems to me that you didn't like the fact that it was dealt with outside of the public eye and wanted to see that it was turned into a public scandal.

By making this public you've accomplished making him a pirriah in the whole poser community. He obviously won't be able to have a store anywhere. If he posts anywhere he'll more than likely be subject to ridicule and shunned. Whatever reputation he had (and I'm sure not all that he did was bad), has been destroyed.

What more do you want? He apparently was banned as a merchant, not as a member and is more than likely reading this thread. What's your goal? See him jump off a bridge?

I don't know him, but I know people, and I'm sure he probably feels pretty shitty and humiliated about what's transpired. Whatever he did, right or wrong, he's still a person and no one deserves "this"!

So tell me.. what do you feel is enough public humiliation for him? How long do you go on kicking an injured dog?

Message edited on: 01/27/2006 23:26

Message edited on: 01/27/2006 23:31

This is a friendly reminder to keep things civil in here. Thanks Angel1

The question about Umotov's store was answered in the second post. Why has this thread been allowed to continue into what it has?

Message edited on: 01/28/2006 00:01

Acadia Letting the public know that a certain merchant is a known thief .. is good business tactics. Now anyone who has anything else by that merchant will know to doublecheck it and make sure they dont have stolen goods. Also anyone else at other sites doing a background check on him will know to be careful about business dealings. Reputation is very important in business. As for him being a social pariah? its less than he deserves for theft and plagiarism. He brought his troubles on himself. Let him reap his own rewards. I dont beleive in playing nice with rulebreakers ... he did it he deals wth the consequences. End of story. This is the mellowest thread of this type I've seen in a long long time and I applaud Blackhearteds restraint. Lyrra

Oh so things should be done Like Last time he had a copyright issue.. kept in the quiet and letting him make "an update" - ie letting him know he'd get away with it.. just so that he goes and does the same thing all over again? yeah, that's really smart

"Airing dirty laundry in public" does not cover publicizing the actions of thieves. And I fail to understand why anyone would not want to know that a person they are about to do business with is a thief. M

Acadia said > I don't know him, but I know people, and I'm sure he probably feels pretty shitty and humiliated about what's transpired. Whatever he did, right or wrong, he's still a person and no one deserves "this"! I say > The hell he doesn't deserve this. IMO he's not feeling the way you think, he's probably laughing his ass off he got away with it for so long. Think he's gonna give Gabe his $$$ back w/o a court order? Doubtful. So, Gabe loses $$$, RO loses $$$(in refunds & $$$ paid to him) & he gets banned as a merchant & labeled a thief. Not a fair trade, by any means IMO. He's not a martyr. He's a thief. Huge difference in My book(& Webster's). ~Thomas

(in response to earlier posts) blackhearted- oh, ok, i guess i understand. i didn't think hybrid clothing was a secret. english bob has a hybrid freebie, and i assumed jim burton's peignoir was going to product. since you had missed umutov's products (he was quite vocal about them in the forums), i thought you might not have come across the hybrid threads. i didn't mean for you to divulge any trade secrets - just let you know something that might interest you. jim - that's what i thought. i didn't think bryn had a body morph (but i haven't looked closely).

I have to agree with Lyrra on this one. Gabe is showing monumental restraint, and frankly the possibility that Umutov is sitting reading this thread wracked with guilt a-la "I don't know him, but I know people, and I'm sure he probably feels pretty shitty and humiliated about what's transpired. Whatever he did, right or wrong, he's still a person and no one deserves "this"!" is laughable. No, you don't know him. Neither do you know his history nor the fact that only a week ago he decided to publically in a forum accuse me of ripping people off myself just because I called him on his abysmal manners.( and no, I'm no thief, Rosity pulled his posts immediately ) THAT's the sort of person we're dealing with. Sympathy ? Pah.. let's save it for someone who actually lost something here.

I have a product by this merchant. He gave it to me for promo renders, about a year and a half ago. The MP was not involved, he sent this product directly to me. If not for this thread I would not have known of his involvement in copyright violations and his banishment from the MP. I checked with store admin whether the product I have is OK, I wouldn't have known of any problems if not for this thread! So letting us know about the copyright violations was a good move. There's a few big differences between this thread and the nasty BMO business back then. First, this thread is much more civil, and second, there's no speculation about the infringement - it already has been proven. Kudos to Blackhearted for his professional and restrained attitude in this matter.

I'm with the people who think this sort of thing should be made public, once proven - as it has been here. The single most important thing that will deter others from ripping off merchants is the knowledge that if they are found out they will be named and shamed. Entirely proper in my view.

CobaltDream wrote: i didn't think hybrid clothing was a secret. english bob has a hybrid freebie, and i assumed jim burton's peignoir was going to product. since you had missed umutov's products (he was quite vocal about them in the forums), i thought you might not have come across the hybrid threads. i didn't mean for you to divulge any trade secrets - just let you know something that might interest you. I was kind of fascinated in the direction this thread had taken since I've been following the hybrid threads over at PP's. Sounds like Gabe has a real good idea, here. I didn't think the hybrid clothing stuff was a secret, since, I've been playing with it on my own since first getting the idea from EnglishBob's PP post. I think that if Acadia hadn't requested, late in this thread, that we all be quiet re umutov's alleged theft, this thread would have continued on in an informative way. I was liking the chat about altering original meshes, and hybridizing clothing. Acadia, you brought the thread back to what it started out to be. Gabe, please hijack it back to the direction it was taking :*)

CobaltDream wrote: i didn't think hybrid clothing was a secret. english bob has a hybrid freebie, and i assumed jim burton's peignoir was going to product. since you had missed umutov's products (he was quite vocal about them in the forums), i thought you might not have come across the hybrid threads. i didn't mean for you to divulge any trade secrets - just let you know something that might interest you. I was kind of fascinated in the direction this thread had taken since I've been following the hybrid threads over at PP's. Sounds like Gabe has a real good idea, here. I didn't think the hybrid clothing stuff was a secret, since, I've been playing with it on my own since first getting the idea from EnglishBob's PP post. I think that if Acadia hadn't requested, late in this thread, that we all be quiet re umutov's alleged theft, this thread would have continued on in an informative way. I was liking the chat about altering original meshes, and hybridizing clothing. Acadia, you brought the thread back to what it started out to be. Gabe, please hijack it back to the direction it was taking :*)

Frankly, I would want to know the products that have been proven to be infringements. I own a few of his (Umutov) earlier products from this store and I want to know if they are safe to use... Acadia, Since you don't like these type of thread, don't read them. However, in this case, since Umutov has done this more than once apparently, I rather doubt he is sitting back wracked with guilt. Nor was he ignorant of the laws and site rules. Gaurie over at PP trusted umtov and brought him into to PP specifically. Umutov violated that trust... How would you like to be in those shoes?

"i didn't think hybrid clothing was a secret. english bob has a hybrid freebie, and i assumed jim burton's peignoir was going to product." its not :) what one chooses to do with it might be, i suppose. i feel like an idiot for having avoided the cloth room so long. i used to think it was too clunky and a waste of time, but really you can set up a dynamic cloth render in less time than it would take to adjust a bunch of fitting morphs, JCMs, yank around body handles, etc, and the resulting clothing is far more natural. i think with all of my upcoming clothing i am only going to be supporting poser 5+. i know some people are clinging on to poser 4 - i was one of them - but its really time to give it up. once you get used to them, the materials, renderer, cloth room, etc are very big improvements. having to package for 4 different types of poser - one of which (poser4) required an entirely separate section in the readme, totally different MAT poses for everything (gets to be a chore when you have like 60 mats), etc was also getting to be a little too much. with the coming of poser7 that would have been 6 applications we had to test in, in addition to two platforms. "Sounds like Gabe has a real good idea, here." its not my idea, at all. i just pay attention - a lot of material has been posted here and at poserpros by jimb, englishbob and even the OP. cheers, -gabriel

***i feel like an idiot for having avoided the cloth room so long. i used to think it was too clunky and a waste of time, but really you can set up a dynamic cloth render in less time than it would take to adjust a bunch of fitting morphs, JCMs, yank around body handles, etc, and the resulting clothing is far more natural.***

Yeah, me too. My only saving grace is I did (finally) get started on it awhile ago. ;-) While it surely isn't a cure-all, it does open up all kinds of new possabilities in posing and rendering. Sure, it takes awhile to setup and run the simulations (I'm including animation poses in my sets to set the users up to speed), but all the new things you can do...

The hybrid peignior / negligee set is going to market, just as soon as I get another Dynamic set or two out first to get people more comfortable with this whole dynamic thing. I only wish DAZ Studio supported it.
Message edited on: 01/28/2006 10:23

Public or not..one thing that really makes me sad is that I had to read this tread to find out that a poroduct I bought was a copyright violation. I had to write to Renderosity and ask, and the reply I got was an email that was sent out to all the customers that had bought the item. That's is not true, I have never recieved that email, and I would never had known if I hadn't read this tread. After I got that message I can see that I have about 17 dollars in instore credit, but it is not easy to find, cause it lies together with my purchase history as a number only..I never open those new things..I look in the items..not the ordernumbers. So I wonder how many else who has bought some of this items, and NOT recieved a message about deleting it and the copyright violation..cause I did not until I contacted renderosity myself. And I am pretty sure that there is a LOT of people in here NOT reading this forum. And what about the instore credit..do I have to use that, or can I claim my money back?..I wanted THAT item, maybe nothing else. Cause actually I have decided not to buy from hee for a while..the whole Marketplace is a totally mess I think.

Hi Hedda, Sorry you didn't receive the email that was sent to you. Make sure you check that the correct address is listed in your profile and that you are able to receive mail from Renderosity (Hotmail commonly decides of its own accord that Renderosity mail is spam.) Regarding the question of refund vs instore credit, please contact store@renderosity.com who will discuss this with you further. Karen

.

Not good enough Karen. ISP services like Verizon also treat Renderosity like Spam and it is on teh customer to make sure that they receive e-mail? Bull. Maybe you need to contact those services and get this site whitelisted. I don't feel it is right that we have to chase around to findout if products we own are effected... I have Umutov pieces, but I feel that because of when I bought then, I'm SOL... You tell me if that is right.

JUst to jump back into this thread for a secons (glad I read down long enought to see the stuff on Hybrid clothing), I've been a fan and experimenting with it since English Bob (who I give credit to as the one who started me thinking about it) for about 6-8 months. I think it has GREAT potential! It allows areas of the cothing to reatain it's shape, as a conformer, while other areas flow, as dynamic. There are some issues with it that can make it a bear to work with. There are alos som areas where Psoer could be improved with better tools, but the potential is fantastic. As for it being a sectret, I can't see that. I've been very open and available to answer questions here and at PP. So has Jim and English Bob. The technique is fairly simple. I've posted on it several times, and would be glad to help anyoone who asks, if I can, time permitting. But I can respect that someone may not want to post his/her original product until it's ready. Attached picture is of one of my experimental hybrid dresses, can't do that with a conformer! Absolutely no Post work involved.

Looks sweet! Is the skirt a clothified body part, or is it a parented prop?