Hi there, if I'm not mistaken it's been around a year since the release of Poser 6 - so I was just wondering is there any news yet on Poser 7 (come on please, toss us a bone)? I'm saying this out of a little impatience as I didn't get anything of real interest to me in Poser 6. I agree that Poser 6 has some nice features in the rendering department but not a thing in the animation department. To be honest if a demo had been available for Poser 6 I think I would have waited for Poser 7. My impatience is heightened because any news in the newsletters, or on the Poser web site, seems to be on Shade or other things unrelated to Poser. At present I get really fed up with the way you have to turn on the inverse kinematics feature in Poser and how your animation sometimes gets messed up using IK (wrists twist and spin). I get fed up having to scale down the graph editor every time I open it up and want to see the entire timeline on it. I get fed up with the key 'spline/linear selection' and 'next/previous key frame' buttons being miles apart. Something I think that would be useful would be the ability to group body parts in their own folders on the timeline (like Flash), and be able to have the content of the folder be immune to the 'key all elements' function. Having colored markers on the 'animation pallet' would be nice too. Is non-linear animation out of the question? Having a 'separate' window for a video reference would be so helpful and being able to import an MPG file as well as an AVI would also be absolutely brilliant (my small Sony camera outputs MPGs) MY MAIN REQUEST - I would love to see a beautifully modeled cartoon character available within Poser too - I really don't want realism in my animation. With Pixar showing the world how to make good animation I would love to see a generic customizable stylized character available (with squash and stretch if possible). I want to make chisel faced characters, round faced characters; fat and thin characters and at the spin of a dial I would like to make these characters female too (all characters, male or female, just need a cat suit for the time being). All of these characters need to have good facial expressions: just once I would like to get a nice exaggerated 'oooo' shape in the lips (as in 'oops'). I would also like to be able to produce an exaggerated miser pose: really have a character's head disappear into his shoulders (shoulders have always been a problem in Poser). I would like this cartoon character to be a substantial part of Poser and not feel that it's a wee bonus tacked on at the end. Cheers

NO, NO, NO.... Please let's see more support for P6 materials etc before we have a new platform to contend with...:)

I for one won't be jumping to buy Poser7 when it comes out. After the debacle of P6 I'm gonna wait next time until I know it works right, then I'll buy it! thefixer, poser coord.

Well after the debacle of posers 5 AND 6... i'm still happily pluging away with P4. And i will be until someone says 'Hey P(insert number here) works right of the box, no problems no endless service patches'. Shrug maybe it's old fashioned of me to expect something i have paid for to work as advertised without having to jump throiugh hoops. Jack

I don't really remember much of a debacle with P6. Certainly nothing on the scale of P5, anyhow. I bought P5 maybe a year to 18 months after it was released, so most of the problems were fixed by then. P6 has never given me a moment's problem, other than one image which just would not render for some reason.

i just want radiosity in P7 :x

There has been talk about P7, but nothing confirmed yet. I've even heard people say it's coming this year, but I really don't believe that at all. I think my Poser journey has ended with P6.... it packs all the features I need. I'm not into animation at all, but I do see your point, Poser is lacking good and solid and useable animation tools for sure.

" I for one won't be jumping to buy Poser7 when it comes out. After the debacle of P6 I'm gonna wait next time until I know it works right, then I'll buy it!

thefixer,
poser coord."

what debacle? please explain. we seemed to have actually missed this 'debacle' you speak of. I (and many others) have found it to be stable and far better than poser 4&5.

can you please tell us your problems rahter than a blanket statement?

Message edited on: 01/29/2006 15:14

?...already for Poser 7? One year is not enough to start asking question for Poser 7. Actually, it hasn't been a year yet since P6 came out.

Message edited on: 01/29/2006 15:36

I had few problems with p5 and even fewer with p6. I'll buy (or even pre-buy) p7 the minute it see it available

I can't remember any serious problems with Poser 6 either. Nothing compared to Poser 5 at least. And remember even Poser 4 had several Service Packs. THAT didn't work properly "out of the box" either.

P4 Worked fine out of the box for me and has done since day one. P5 i bought when it came out and i gave up in disgust. P6 i waited on, but as i saw more and more problems arising i decided against it. My point remains... if i buy something i expect it to work. I buy a fair amount of software and games, they work. So why does Poser have to be different, are the designers not capable of producing a finished, consumer ready product?

I vote for radiosity too But as far as I remember, Poser6 had 4 SR, and volumetric lights came with SR2... who knows...

Definately looking forward to poser 7 if only for dual core support

P6 was not too bad right out of the box. The new lighting options are neat, and the render quality can be stunning. Better than anything P5 can produce. What I'd like for a P7 is increased capacity. And 64bit support. Far too often I have to trim down my scenes in order to be able to render it. Good water and metal material presets using reflection/refraction/fresnel. And most of all, some user interface improvements. A hierarchical library view. Ability to group figures, props and lights, and ability to show/hide entire groups at once. Ah well, this isn't the first Poser 7 wish list, and it won't be the last. And when P7 is released, most of the wishes will be ignored, but we'll like the enhancements we didn't ask for nonetheless.

Oh, water, yes, water, please, water...

other programs already do dynamic fluids they aren't too bad at it either :) i predict P7 will have it

Robo2010 I believe Poser 6's features were uncovered one year ago and I took delivery of my copy mid February 2005. All I'm hoping for is for e-frontier to give us something on Poser 7, as some info has to be due about now surely. If all you want to do with Poser is animate then you can see why it's frustrating for me - I just can't get the results I want with Poser as it stands at the moment (mostly due to problems with the inverse kinematics and also not having a fully articulated cartoon/stylized model). I've been waiting for better animation tools since Poser 5 pro pack was released. With Pixar's films being so popular there has to be a market for quality cartoon characters.

I personally think talking about fluids in Poser is a bit premature. Let's get the dynamics of human movement sorted out before getting into particle systems.

If Poser 7 is due out in the near future, I'd welcome a complete core re-write and animation features that meet the standards of the last 5 years or so. Heck, I'm not asking for any foward thinking, just something that's been done and done again in other programs (like rigging with weights). A total re-write isn't unheard of, Rhino's done it, Silo's done it. It's something that a company should consider if its software is showing age. Note: My opinions do not reflect those of Renderosity, its management or staff.

Message edited on: 01/29/2006 17:32

"can you please tell us your problems rahter than a blanket statement?"

I know you didn't ask me, but here is my opinion and problems:

I think there was less of a hoop-de-rah over P6 simply because people were tired from the P5 battles. That, and people were desensitized and expecting problems after the P5 "debacle."

Some of my problems with P6:

Slows to a crawl--even with sparce scenes--after using it for an hour or two. (worse than P5)

Hogs memory and won't let it go. (worse than P5) Restarting Poser doesn't help.

Corrupted files (never happened in P4 or P5). Fixed when disabling pmd files.

Corrupted document window -- scene turns to wire frame view and stays that way, no matter what.

Characters suddenly lose all morphs and pose, reverting to zero for no apparent reason. No way to get it back.

Materials apply wonky at times for no apparent reason.

All of this happens whether I use OpenGL or not. Also, I never have any other programs running when using Poser (learned that a looooong time ago), except for my tiny memory monitor.

My machine:
Dual Pentium 4 1.7 zeons
1gig o' ram
300 gig o' free hard drive space
Windows XP Pro, sp2 applied.

Message edited on: 01/29/2006 18:01

Mid Feb? Prob a download version.

Most (Majority of Poser6) users didn't get their Package until March of 2005

"Thank you for placing your order with us on 04-MAR-05. Your payment has been received and processed and your order has been shipped."

Message edited on: 01/29/2006 18:03

I would be more interested in learning if they're in negotiations to sell poser to somebody. based on past history, it's about time for a new owner to take over.

thats interesting Jackson.. I've seen none of that at all. I did have a problem with a disapearing cursor.. but a reboot sorted that out.. I'm running a Sempron 2400+ 1.5gig Ram Currently : 34Gig of HD Space free (out of 140) and windows Xp Pro SP2 I've had scenes with multiple figures, around 10-15 textures loaded.. and no problems at all.. I'm genuinely at a loss to why I have no problems, yet others claim p6 is unusable.

I haven't had any real problems with P6 since SR1.

But, IMO, the "memory bug" that P6 had before SR1 was a really serious issue, if only because it corrupted your files. P6 should not have been released with that kind of bug.

I never had anything near that serious a problem with P5, but SR3 was out by the time I bought that.

I will probably buy P7, if the price is reasonable.

'I'm genuinely at a loss to why I have no problems, yet others claim p6 is unusable' The number of people claiming P6 is unusable is minimal - certainly a lot less than with P5. I haven't seen much in the way of P6 complaints/problems around the poser sites. Other than the memory issue, I can't think of any major problem it had. I'm not a huge poser fan, but P6 was a good release. Solid, stable and apart from some wonky dialog buttons losing focus, no real problems at all. I'm not even going to begin to speculate about P7. It's way too early, and anyway, I'll only rush to buy it if EF make me an offer I can't refuse, (like they did with P6). But I'm hoping for continued stability above all else. If the damn thing works, and has some intelligent new features, (ie. not gimmicks), I'll be up for it. mac

http://www.renderosity.com/freestuff.ez?Form.Contrib=Andi3d&Topsectionid=0 :o)~

"What I'd like for a P7 is increased capacity. And 64bit support. Far too often I have to trim down my scenes in order to be able to render it." I agree 1000% with svdl...I wish it could render larger sized or even heavier scenes...anything much over 1500-2000 pixels for me and it bites the bisquit we should not have to scale down the size or complexity of a scene, or take it to Bryce, just to be able to render it ;/ it has some fantastic capabilities, but not rendering...what's the use of being able to build a magnificent scene when you'll not be able to render it???? Karen

I hadn't planned on getting Poser 6 as I had purchased Poser5 less than a year before Poser 6 was released and was still trying to find my way around the program. I did see people talking about a few features in Poser 6 that I wouldn't mind having available, but they weren't enough for me to spend money upgrading to Poser 6. This past December I saw that the Poser 6 cloth room could do something that the Poser 5 one couldn't and that alone was enough to push me to get Poser 6. Seeing as I just got Poser 6, I won't be upgrading to Poser 7 if they release one this year, as I don't see a need to upgrade to every new version that a program releases. Also, I prefer to wait and let others "beta" new releases and then buy them later when they aren't buggy.

eecir, have you looked into Animation:Master? I would LOVE all the animation features you are citing. I would agree, however, that unless Poser can process frames faster, for instance with 64-bit manymanymegs RAM usage, dual processor/core support, then no matter what sort of leap ahead we might get in animation, it will still be frustrating. ::::: Opera :::::

Hello Opera, yes I did think about Animation Master a good while back - in some ways I wish I had started animating with that program as it's geared up to animate first and foremost and I remember seeing an animation done with it that was very impressive. I'm so used to Poser now and in some ways I'm just getting the hang of it. I did get so fed up with Poser however that I went out and bought Softimage XSI - surely this will solve all my problems. But XSI is just too complicated - sure it will do what I want if I invest hours and hours of time learning to use it. Only one reasonably good free rig is available for XSI but I'm not keen on it - so again I'm stuck.

I'd be most interested in better animation capabilities. I'm still stuck using P4 Propack on OS9 because they never upgraded the plugin (on Mac) for Cinema 4D.--T

I hope it's a whole new program based on more higher end 3d human graphics. Hope they don't manipulate poser 6 into poser 7 by playing around with the code again, I hope they just write a whole new program.

P6 had some issues, depending on the user. Some people had a total heartache with it, some have had no problems at all. I had a couple of memory bug problems pre-sp1, but since, I have only had one, and none since sp2. It was really hit-and-miss. I do remember the anger threads though. Here's an idea on Poser 7. Multiple Undo. That's all I'm asking for right now! Of course, any new features are welcome, especially when it concerns materials and lighting options, but regardless, every version introduces something new, so I don't mind.

I won't buy anything from efrontier. I'll wait for Poser 8 made by some other company.

Message edited on: 01/29/2006 21:16

I think Poser has come a long way and continues to make huge improvements at a low cost. Hair and cloth. Some 3D apps charge you a arm and a leg for this. I still can't believe the features you get for the cost. And it just keeps getting better with every release. More and more features. Right now me and the son are learning Machinima together and he is really getting excited with 3D. He spend hours just creating lights in his scene and building motion paths for them and them setting the velocity on the timeline and setting keyframes for them, adjusting the color and intensity, moving them around, and creating strobe effects. I think I have him hooked! After this Poser and then maybe Lightwave. Well see how it goes.

eecir, it sounds to me that perhaps Poser will never offer you all the features that you're looking for. I have been very lucky that I have not experienced many of the problems that have popped up here in the community. On the flip side, I am amazed by the forward thinking advances that the community has produced, for a program that is marketed towards "hobbyists". To state what has already been stated: Although one can do much to optimize Poser scenes, the fact is that it's core DOES need a rewrite to accomodate heavier poly characters (Poser with NURBS suppport - hmm- Firefly IS Renderman compliant) and to crash less often. Radiosity is beautiful, but could you imagine rendering a three second long radiosity animation with a few Mil3s, props, dynamic clothing and an environment - in Poser? I'm pretty sure it'd be adding objects for days. So I decided to move to one of the big four, and after almost a year of trying to paint weights on a V3, I've almost given up - until I downloaded a demo of Carrara 5 Pro. I'm really going back and forth about that one. My first 3D prog was Ray Dream Studio, so I feel like I have come full circle. It has many of the features that you're looking for, renders out of the box are on par with Vue Infinite and renders wicked fast (until one adds GI, which it's still relatively fast). IBL in it sucks IMHO but - this is the part that kills me - it handles Poser stuff better than Poser itself. I will purchase P7 as a curiosity but I will not use it until it "makes my jaw drop".

Message edited on: 01/29/2006 23:06

I had so few problems with Poser 5 and absolutely none at all with Poser 6.
Perhaps the list of problems by Jackson (above) could be lack of memory?
Im never sure why people are so reluctant to look forward to newer versions of programs and already have their minds made up before it even happens that its bound to be a ball of problems. I have no clue whether Poser 7 is even in the works, or when it will come out but I'll be right there in line to buy my version no matter what.
I guess some people (well lets face it; a LOT of people) just cant deal with change. It's easier to stay in their safe zone than to be adventurous and challenged by "new" things. I might add here that Im still using my old Dell that I got 6 years ago and has only 512 MB Memory - and I run Poser and render while I have other programs, browsers etc. running. Never experience the problems listed by Jackson.

Message edited on: 01/29/2006 23:35

Weirdly, Poser 6 seemed to have more trouble with too much memory than with not enough. It actually ran better on old computers. The people who got hit by the P6 memory bug were people who had newer computers with a lot of RAM.

That's what seems to be happening indeed. I blame it on the 'old code' that still exsists in P6. It's based on the older versions of Poser and I'm thinking that newer computers just don't work well with the old coding still incorporated.

'Weirdly, Poser 6 seemed to have more trouble with too much memory than with not enough' Possibly a legacy from P4. If you've ever tried to use P4 with 2GB of RAM before installing the memory patch, you'll know what I mean. I hear people asking for a code rewrite. It sounds wonderful and would probably solve a lot of problems, but EF would almost certainly be throwing out the baby with the bathwater. In other words, if there's a major code rewrite, it's likely that backwards compatibility will go out the window, and half the stuff we now use may not work. For example, it's almost certain that the code would go binary to cut down file size (like daz studio). If that happens, all the hacks (like MATs) will become a lot more difficult, if not impossible. DS can write most files in clear text, so MATs can be hacked, but you need to know a bit more than just how to open notepad. Still, a double file system like that could be an option for Poser too. mac

I started with Poser 2, then waited and upgraded to Poser 4. I jumped on Poser 5 and it was dismal, slow as molasses through a straw and very unstable. When Poser 6 came out I read the so-called "new" features in preview news letter and wasn't terribly impressed, it seemed like an updated Poser 5 fix to me. I decided to wait and see if any complaints poured in on Poser 6, they did and I made my mind up then and there not to upgrade to 6 and perhaps wait for Poser 7 to come out. Whenever I need a figure, I don't run to Poser 5, I go directly to Poser 4 for it. I'm very dissatisfied with Poser and I'm hoping there's a big change in any upcoming versions. In fact, Im surprised some other software company hasnt jumped on the human figures bandwagon and given Poser a run for its money. I for one would certainly welcome the competition.

it's likely that backwards compatibility will go out the window. I seriously doubt that would happen. at the very least they would have it setup like the rsr to png backward compatability. >all the hacks (like MATs) will become a lot more difficult, if not impossible. P6 added material collections (mc6) and the system is backward compatble to read MAT pz2 files (renamed to mc6). They apply to props and figures without reguard to parenting. P6SR2 included a re-written library code base. perhaps these are signs of things to come. I doubt a complete re-write will fall into our laps but changes do appear to be trickeling in.

I for one would certainly welcome the competition. I'm not so sure i do. D|S is already (in my opinion) holding back progress in Poser. Modelers are trying to maintain the largest market by staying p4/pp compatable and thus D|S compatable. I believe it is slowing progress in P5/6 materials (and D|S materials for that matter) because the total market is not large enough (in their opinions) to choose one path or invest the time to learn both paths.

I welcome my new Poser7 overlords! Interesting comments. Here's my responses based on those. Radiosity? You guys ready for renders that take 5 times LONGER then you currently have? You add more complex math to the rendering and you will be paying a price.. render time. Nice, but I can easily live without it. My wants: 64 bit support. Higher memory support, buyout excellent tools like particles 2.0, wardrobe wizrd, and shader spider, and include them with poser. Make them the standard, so people support the excellent tools we are seeing being released. I think Poser's best bet for fast animation abilites is beefing up it's opengl preview system. Add a slider for it's quality, and thn add higher texture resolution, better transparency and specular previewing. Add the ability to see more lights at one time, and imporve light previews. Kick it up, and make it the quality of LW9's new opengl preview, and games like Unreal Tournement 2007, and that'll give us workable better quality opengl "quick animation". I'd also like to see more nodes in the material room, support perhaps for the Darktree shader set, and improve the setup room.. make it easier for users to create content.

I too would like a Poser 7 just not next week, LOL, never had a problem with poser 5 nor with poser 6, all works great!! We are all still learning poser 6 though, at least I am hell if I still had Poser 5 installed I would still be learning that LOL>

Look to the P6 wishlist threads for what you'll likely see in P7. 64 bit support is possible if a large portion of the underlying code is re-written. Improvemetns to the animation interface are very likely. Buyouts of anything sold through DAZ are pretty much certain to not occur. There are at least 4 different programs I've seen within the last three years that all pretty much attempt to do the same thing poser does, using the alternate rigging system, and one that actually uses the same one. The bulk of the memory issues I've seen described are coming from people who play system intensive games. Games require a very different methodology for system setup than the creation of the content for those games. This creates a conflict on some systems will reduce performance in Poser. The reverse is true as well -- improved performance in poser usually appears to mean reduced performance in gaming. Any code rewrite will break hacks. Backwards compatibility with hacks requires including that in the design stage -- and some hacks will never be included. A total code rewrite would, for example, render the entire injection system used by the mil figures utterly unusable, unless they decided to keep it. WHich is unlikely, since they now have pmd, which works in a different way to reach a similar goal. Be careful what you wish for. You may just get it.

I can count on one hand how many times in the last year I have used a mil figure (human) :) Poser 6 people are my fav's then Yuki, so no worries there, If poser architecture changes I am betting though that Daz would change with them.

If poser architecture changes I am betting though that Daz would change with them. DAZ is still catering to the 7% (estimated from recent polls) of the market that uses Poser4 (w/o PP). png, pmd, mc6....embrace the future :) or just wait for the forced change and whine and complain and swear you'll never upgrade. :-P

as it is right now with Daz all I can say is that they are lucky that poser is mostly backwards compatible. If ef rewrites the code and this changes Daz will have to change or shrivle and die. studio or no studio, their majority buyers are poser users

If ef rewrites the code and this changes Daz will have to change or shrivle and die. I agree, just pointing out that DAZ doesnt have a track record of keeping up....at least not from my point of view. >they are lucky that poser is mostly backwards compatible. unfortunatly (in my opinion) it means they are producing and demanding (from their brokered artists) inferrior products... at least inferrior to what they could be doing. Their only advantage is that these inferrior products seem to be the "standard" of the market... at least at the moment. There are brokered artists who are adding p5/6 materials (even if it is only connecting the bump map to the right place). But i see no signs so far that DAZ is moving forward.