I'm ready to ram my head straight into the computer. I've been working on this ogre for at least a week straight. I'm really trying to make a new legitimate character. Separated into groups in Cinema 4D. Riptide tells me I'm missing and mtl file which crashed Cinema 4d all the time so I'm ready to nix that. Jointing this bastard is the most annoying thing on the face of the planet, just when I take hours just getting down one arm, I realize that part of his tongue and lower teeth (now part of the head) have their normals reversed. Everytime I try to open the saved jointed character which I think is good from the cr2, parts start flying off. I wish Poser was tangible so I could choke the hell out of it. GoD!! There has got to be an easier way!!! How the hell do people do this?! Am I alone? Thanks for listening this far to my rant. This is 70% venting and 30% wishing for some magical answer to this insane task.

One thing you might consider when saving, save as a pz3 file. When you want to work on it some more, new session or whatever, just open it. Make squential files incase something gets corrupted. Especially if using P6.

Hi ExprssnImg, [ Take 2 of these (CLICK HERE) and ...](http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=1977525) ... IM me in the morning. cheers, dr geep ;=]

the ogre looks good, Chris. I've no doubt you'll get it fixed up.

Thank you, When I finally do bang him out. I might be as bald as him from tearing my hair out. And I do have a full head of hair. Grrr.

This looks like a really great character in the making. I got way ahead of myself and started trying to do a char and make conforming clothing for it, I still havent sat down to go thru the boning and realign everything to get a conforming figure reference base. It seems a huge labor of love, but from what youve got started id definately say try to stick it out!

I will. Thanks for that. It's just a frustrating process. Especially when you are a perfectionist. It'll take at least half an hour for one joint some of the time. When there's roughly over 40 joints. ;-0 It's my first complete character too so I don't have much experience with this part.

Attached Link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0240519299/sr=1-6/qid=1139369660/ref=pd_bbs_6/002-6492931-1717631?

you should buy this book :) Secrets of Figure Creation with Poser 5

I just got it last week. I've been reading it. It has everything I need to know. Especially telling of all the lovely things that happen when trying to customize a figure for Poser. I've read every tut it seems on making figures in the setup room. Every tut is with a very simple figure. I now know why.

Mmm Try simply boning it with the PhiBuilder (there's a link to RoyRiggs' tutorials at the sidebar, and it's a free download there) IMO that is MUCH MUCH easier than to putz around in the setup room, especially with stuff like fingers. You will need to tweak the joint parameters afterwards, but you would have to do that anyway. And PhiBuilder will give you a working model in minutes, providing you have all the groups set up right first :o)

Really? PHI builder does that? I will remember for next time. I have him all grouped and rigged too. It' just all the joints need too bloody much attention. I'm going to take another whack at him today.

Creating a Poser figure is a long, drawn-out, frustrating task. It's very inspiring, though. Why, every time I come up with brand-new swear words!;)

The only real advice I can give you is:

• Check every thing carefully before you start joint work. There's nothing worse than getting halfway through the joints only to realize there's a fault in the mesh that means going back to the modeler. I know, I've done it...

• Think before you trash. Even in a case like that, you might be able to use the bones on the fixed mesh, so save that skeleton. You'll just hate yourself if you trash something useful. I know, I've done it...

• SAVE! SAVE! SAVE! Save the figure to the library at various stages. AND save scene files at various stages. Cover your ass and back yourself up as much as possible, you never know when you'll screw something up and you'll be kicking yourself savagely if you don't have older stages saved to drop back to. I know, I've dont it...

Creating a figure is like having a baby: Making it is really fun, after that it's just a hell of a lot of work;)

Message edited on: 02/08/2006 08:15

Thanks for all that advice. I've been following it to a tee. We musta gone to the same school, Gluttons4Pnshment High? Right? I know I save and save and then I'm wondering what's good and what's not. I forget when I'm looking at 10 different files of the same thing. I have a few different skeletons saved too. about 5. I'm getting confused. I can't wait to be done with him so his folders could use a good douching. Back to jointing. ;-9 Grrr.

"I wish Poser was tangible so I could choke the hell out of it" ROFL!!!! :] Fish

;-) wink

uvmapper helps on mesh bashing .. ie group setting and fixing flipped normals and it makes MTLs and other emsh massaging things to make poser like your obj better (pro version at least) If you dont have bloodsongs book ... get it now. Also the poser technical forum is a great resource when legs start falling off ...

bookmark

Do yourself a favor: once you have all the bones where you want them, select each one while the joint editor is open and click on "align", especially for the hands and fingers. Trust me, once you start twiddling with the joint parameters, this will save you a few headaches.

Well I spent a good 8 or 9 hours putting some bones to him. His right hip comes apart, his hoof like foot flies off and is glued to the ground, and he has literally come apart at the seams. ;-0 . . .cr2 editing?

Load your OBJ into C4D and make sure everything is grouped properly. You can't always tell in Poser... I had a problem with my Maradanian figure where one of the fingers was acting all weird. It turned out that ONE POLYGON had accidently gotten grouped in with the opposite part (that is, an lMid1 poly grouped with rMid1). I couldn't find it with the group tool, but it was plain as day in C4D. If you do find something like that, though, fix it with the Group tool, otherwise you'll have to drop way back to re-exporting from C4D and all that crap, and that's no fun at all... Also, make sure the red/green joint adjustment bars aren't turned around backwards. It's the silly, obvious things that really make you tear yout hair out;)

Oh yeah, and if you really want some fun, try making a figure with four arms. OY VEY!

What's weird is that part of his chest flies off. Not the whole thing. But a good slice off the left side. I threw him in the walk designer and he looked almost hilarious if it wasn't so tragic. Parts were swarming around him as his feet stuck to the ground and he moved his legs as he was trying to get out of the quicksand. I'll check em. . .again.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=2430498

Hey x2000,

How about four ................................ legs?

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Actually, I'm a glutton for punishment. One character I have in development right now is a caterpillar-like creature... 8o

I'm doing the ol fellas skin right now. I'll deal with that other crap soon enough. I have no idea how.

Attached Link: http://www.quinlor.de/tutorials/

I have some tutorials that may be helpfull. Very cool model, by the way.

Message edited on: 02/09/2006 16:20

Riptide tells me I'm missing and mtl file which crashed Cinema 4d all the time so I'm ready to nix that. ...I think you may be interprettig that wrong. The "missing .mtl file" is really just a 'notice' that Riptide couldn't find (or read) the .mtl file indicated by the .obj file. Riptide doesn't really care if it's missing (shouldn't cause a crash). There are a few bugs in the current Riptide that can/will cause crashes though... let me see if I can remember them: Exporting: 1. Riptide expects ALL facets to have UV-mapping coordinates. This was/is an oversight on my part, but currently, if ANY facet (polygon) is not UV-mapped, it can cause Riptide to choke when you export the mesh. Most of the mesh-generating tools within C4D (lofted surface, polygon tools, sweep nurbs, primitives, etc) will automatically come up with and assign some default mapping coordinates, but there are a few know, distinct exceptions to this general rule - End Caps / Rounding. Any of the generators that add these features (End Caps and/or Rounding) will generate this part of the mesh with no mapping. To get around this issue, you'd need to convert the object to an editable mesh and then assign some sort of mapping corrdinates to those pieces inside BodyPaint (assuming you had it). Otherwise, you'll need to export the mesh using C4D's built-in .obj exporter. There may well be a similar issue with 'Normals'. When you import a mesh with Normals (R8.5+), you get a Normal Tag, but I'm not sure any/many of the tools in C4D update that tag as you add/sub-divide polygons on the mesh, so you may no longer have Normal values for every facet. Since most apps will/can compute thier own Normals, the best bet is to delete the Normal Tag before exporting to get around this potential problem. 2. Non-standard "Materials". When I wrote Riptide, I had not yet even noticed or played with things like the BhodiNut shaders... so Riptide will crash on Export if you are using any of those. To get around this issue, don't use any of the 'Shaders', just standard materials. Importing: 1. I'd have to look to be sure, but I'm fairly certain that the "all facets are expected to be the same" applies here as well. In other words, if ANY facets have UV-mapping, they ALL need to. If ANY facets have Normals, they ALL need to. ...anyway, I'm guessing that the crash you are seeing is one of those issues (or something I'm forgetting) and nothing to do with a missing .mtl file. If you are interested in looking into this further, and don't mind sending me the mesh, I'd be willing to help you fix it (or determine the problem) and get it back to you in a form you can import/export with C4D. If you're interested, IM me for my e-mail details. Cheers, - Keith

Thanks Keith, I think your a genious for putting that whole package together. I definitely had normals and reversed normals. It's not a big deal though. I figured out how to see if they are flipped by selecting them and the yellow flags on the polygons face in or out telling me if they were reversed or not. I really appreciate your concern. Thanks Chris

Here's how he's looking with skin so far.

that texture is AWESOME!!! This char is looking great! Need any beta testers?

I'm sure I will. Do you have Poser 4 installed?

Oooooh, lookin' good! I really struggle with texturing. Are you using Bodypaint or something? Did you get the chest and whatever straightened out yet? If you really get stuck, you can zip it up and e-mail it to me and I'll see if I can find the problem. Just IM me if you need help:)

Regarding Beta testing, I have installed Poser 4 Pro Pack SR3, and Poser 5 SR4 Id be happy to put the creature thru both programs and do extensive posing and rendering in P5's firefly as well as the P4 renderer in both P5 and original ProPack. Feel free to PM anytime, or email at your convienience, just please put something "Poser" related in the subject field so my mailwasher doesnt accidently nuke it along with the several hundred spamvertisements I get daily ;)

Feel free to PM anytime, or email at your convienience, just please put something "Poser" related in the subject field so my mailwasher doesnt accidently nuke it along with the several hundred spamvertisements I get daily ;) You and me both. And it's amazing how many people send LEGITIMATE emails with NO subject or just "Hi. Or "Hi Trekkie"... My Mailwasher doesn't like those very much... --- That texture is SWEET! What program are you using to do that texture? Looks VERY nice!

It's coming along. The program used for the texture, which has taken these 2 days pretty much. I'm glad you guys like it but it looks better up close. Seeing it here, looks kinda bla. Well I get the UV map to split all nice like so I just did the UV map that ends up being squares, it'd be impossible to texture this with 2d alone. It's Z-brush 2 with a wonderful little plug-in called Z-aps, YOu can rotate him in 3d space, then drop him down to a 2.5D space,(like a snapshot that goes back to 3d) and it reverts to Photoshop where you can put nice rhino or elephant wrinkles just where you want em. It's awesome! The TExture is almost there. The skeleton is almost done too. His feet stick to the ground. So I think it's just the IKs that need some work now. I made a new Cr2 without the ghost bone, then started new, brought the original obj in again, skeletonized it, and vuala, all the joints and stuff were still there. The obj that got rigged to the bones earlier really changed a lot when the joints were added. Typical Poser Shinnanigans!!!

Boy was I wrong. I don't think this motherF*ckr will ever be ready. Couldn't be that easy. I thought saving the cr2 again made him ok. Nope! Poser puts the groups anywhere it wants after I reload him. All my groups are history after reloading him! What the sam hill is wrong with this progam??

Check to see which obj your saved cr2 referenced. With a little luck it'll reference an obj placed where the cr2 is and not your original obj. You can then alter the reference (remember a cr2 references the obj twice, search for .obj to get the second occurrence) to the original obj. And DO make a backup of it, if it's still there :o)

right. . . check. . . .

have you been using the STOMP utility at all? its supposed to be very good for cleaning up obj data orders. Not sure if this is a solution or not for this instance though :/

I'll check into stomp. And for the cr2 referencing thing? Yes, it does refer to the new object both times. The cr2 name !OG refers to a new obj. named OG! with bad Poser re-grouping. If I reference the original on the second instance with the good groups, then save it again would that work? I guess I'll find out. Nope didn't work. Tried replacing one, then the other, then both. My grouped original is the right scale but shows up immense when it's plugged in. When I scale it down it completely screws up when any pose is attempted.

The textureing is going rather well. I just wish the body would follow suit.

never tried doing a full figure .. i normally do armour and swipe cr2's for other clothing items as my base. The charcter looks awesome! good luck with it and hope you get the joints and bones and such worked out.

Thanks. . .we'll crack the case