(1) What is the latest current version of Bryce? What versiona are likely to come in the near future? What new features have they got? (2) Has anyone made any success into deciphering the code that *.BR5 and *.OBP files are written in?

Answers to question 1.... latest version: 5.5 next version to come: 6 version 5.5 comes with built in wardrobes. Answers to question 2 More than likely, try finding a coder ;)

Well, I've never really tried looking as I'm not sure what the reason would be? .br5 to renderman conversion? knowing that bryce save textures into the files, it's diffciult to just decode, for example an area that is a large chunk of hex could be texture info versus geometry info or areas of the data could be obfiscated. You really need to ask DAZ if the format will go open source, provide a good argument as to why you want it to (for example if you wanted to use aqsis or similar)

You'd have to export a sphere in several different ways and see how the hex changes between each different permutation. I don't know if this would work though as I really don't know much about hex files and how they are structured (although I hope to be learning soon at school). There was a guy who released a program called "bryce2Vue" for mac osx that would supposedly convert bryce scene files into vue scene files, but I and others could never get it to work... here's the home page for that application: Bryce2Vue Homepage you'll need access to a mac to try it out... Bryce itself would be very hard to crack because there is no source code and therefore it's in "machine language" which you won't make heads or tails of unless you are that kid from the movie mercury rising who can instantly decipher all those really complex codes. I'd second a motion for an open-source release, at least with some aspects of the program. I think it would really help Daz out to have more developers working on certain aspects of the program like exporting to various formats, materials, animation, etc. Then they could be universal binaries that could be compiled for any system...

Real quick I just opened two versions of a bryce object in hexedit...a default sphere and a default sphere lifted and elongated along the y-axis only. There is a LOT of empty space in the file that seems like it could be cut down...I think this may be why bryce files compress so well. What I found was that there were a LOT of little differences in a lot of places, you'd really have to know hex to really get it I think. ANyhoo the most interesting part is at the end of the code. It has clearly marke hex lines for material properties, origin, position, scale, etc. But then what is the rest of the file used for?

Hi Max, that's what I was trying to say, looking at the hex, you can see some annotations but big chunks of the file are probably positional matrices / image files (for textures) / algorythm seeds (for example for fractal terrains). You could spend an age examining (for example comparing chunks of the hex to the original texture files in hex for image textures etc).

wow..Mr. Appleyard, don't see you in these parts that often..;)
I suppose it's what you're trying to do; I know you've actually written some conversion utilities that are on your site. You'd probably get a standing 'o' if you could figure it out, since noone else has. I wouldn't be surprised if Bryce 6 was a little more friendly towards imports and exports, the millenium meshes being .obj and all.. but unfortunately, we'll have to wait. As an interim business, maybe you could look at terrains; they can be exported, and the method Bryce uses to convert them (uh..Ctrl+D, is that right?) might give some clues, or not..I don't know, the last code I wrote was in Cobol..;) good luck

Its written in Axiom code??

Which version of Bryce made the file sphee2.obp displayed by madmax_br5 above? As I can see readable variable names in it, it seems that at least that part of at least that version is not encrypted.

Don't know what Max is on but I get similar output from 5

Look deeper a bit..ya'll see what its in, and s old worn out code:-) cough cough..PHLEMMMMMM!!!!! dammnit..sorry..look beyond your fears ..not inside them:-P heheheh Clayoda>(:>

Real quick I just opened two versions of a bryce object in hexedit...a default sphere and a default sphere lifted and elongated along the y-axis only. Thanks. Some success at last. The dark fortress starts to yield! The many small differences may be all the point coordinates nd suchlike. Try imputting a small .OBJ mesh file, and then the same file with one point different. Or try changing one color and seeing what changes that makes.

I'm honestly curious why anyone would want to take apart Bryce coding? Are we still tring to get a Bryce scene to export to another program like Max or Maya? If so, why not just use the other program? All the "Big Dogs" and most of the medium guys (Carrara, C4D, Lightwave) can do everything Bryce can and a million times better and faster, if one knows how to do them. Especially modeling. And Bryce can already export it's best features, the terrains and textures! So, aside from the obvious legal considerations (read the User License Agreement sometime), why would you want to export stuff from Bryce? Bryce's best feature is of course it's UI. I can understand delving for hidden knowledge and all that, but to what end here? And not to be a total jerk, but I'm curious why you would be so interested in tearing Bryce's engine apart Anthony, yet somehow not know the manufacturer, current version, or anything else like that?

It would be convenient to be able to translate Bryce format files into other programs' formats.

I guess I just don't understand how that would be convenient? Having used other apps extensively, I have to say that "modeling" in Bryce is beyond primitive, and although I think it's fractal-texture methods (DTE) are excellent, they are already exportable as image-maps. If you're trying to export Brycean primitives for example, 3DS or Maya would make no sense of them. Bryce doesn't actually DO booleans, but merely uses the positive/negative as rendering filters, so what you'd get in any other application would be completely unbooleaned objects. You would spend so much time trying to re-boolean everything that it would be faster and more efficient to natively just model in those apps, or in something like Wings or Rhino... I guess my real point is, Anthony, that you may spend a great deal of time trying to convert Bryce-files, only to find that those conversions don't actually save you any time at all! So please take no offense; from a modeler's point of view, it would be very backwards to export anything from Bryce... Anyway, this thread actually has more information on the topic and you people are much closer to deciphering Bryce-files than anything else I've seen, ever! Good stuff, and I apologize if I sounded kinda snotty or elitist here...

I think it's interesting not for conversion puposes but that you could write little utilities to modify bryce scenes, almost like plugins. For example, you could spawn a light with a given intensity at a specific location and a color related to the nearby object to give a fake radiosity effect, for each object in the scene based on current light sources, without having to do anything manually, which would be tedious positioning and modification of many small light sources. You could also generate textures, improve the terrain lab, etc. I've used many of the "big dog" apps rather intensively, and I keep coming back to bryce because it has a certain flair that the other applications lack...maybe bryce is just more fun? Other apps arealways a bit awkward with the exception of a few like wings, which I use as my main modeler along with bryce for my renderer. Carrara is very bryce-like and has oodles more features and a fantastic renderer, but scene placement is so difficult and counter-productive that I hesitate to open the program. If someone could give carrara the naigation tools in bryce, I'd be much more keen on using it.

I think i had the same problem with 3DS MadMax which led me to Lightwave (similar learning curve) and finally to Maya (an adjustable and programmable learning curve!) Scene navigation is vastly programmable and even out of the box far, far easier even than Bryce! for example you don't have to dig around with cam controls on a panel (like in Bryce or Poser) unless you WANT to, but instead can just hold down alt. Alt+LMB is rotate, Alt+MMB is pan, and Alt+RMB is zoom in/out. Select an object and press "f" to focus on it. Stuff like that... i find that even in Rhino I'm constantly pressing alt to move around which just messes Rhino up, and Bryce has become cumbersome compared to the scene naviagtion tools i've been using for the last few years. I guess when something clicks, it just clicks! and it's all preferential, unless of course you have a job to do.

It would be useful to be able to translate Poser .CR2 and .PZ3 files straight into Bryce .OBP and .BR5 modes keeping the transparency information. Inability to pass transparency from Poser to Bryce via the usual .OBJ mode, is an (expletive deleted).

DAZ studio already does that.

for example you don't have to dig around with cam controls on a panel (like in Bryce or Poser) unless you WANT to, but instead can just hold down alt. Alt+LMB is rotate, Alt+MMB is pan, and Alt+RMB is zoom in/out. I don't know about Bryce, but Poser has such shortcuts. space+LMB = pan control+LMB = rotate control+space+LMB = zoom (on the Mac, replace control with Apple)

well, if there was a way to export something like Bambam's spaceships out of Bryce, I'd be interested..don't stop workin' on it..good luck.

Alt+MMB is pan

Which PC's in Windows mode read the middle button of the mouse?

Can mice with 3 buttons still be bought? Message edited on: 02/12/2006 02:25

all mice for PC's have three buttons. the middle-mouse button is also the wheel, when you press it down it is the "MMB". are you using a Mac, then?

Well, the mouse that I am using has 2 buttons and a wheel. The wheel makes the web page scroll up and down. I have a PC with Windows 98.

Message edited on: 02/14/2006 10:00

Try depressing the wheel. If it "clicks", when you push it down, NOT when you roll it, then you have a three-button mouse... It's standard these days!

Thanks.

Well, did it work? or am i just coming across as an idiot, my friend? :)