Have your models been ripped off? Someone spreading your stuff around claiming its theirs? Need to control the problem? It's simple, really. And yes, I know that warez phreaks are reading this along with the legit users, and that's OK; every 'Net user leaves a footprint behind them, and all you need do is follow the trail. So here's what you do: 1) Perform a DNS lookup on the domain name or IP address (by visiting a site such as http://www.mse.co.jp/ip_domain/index_e.shtml). This will tell you who the registrant, admin, and technical contacts are. Sometimes, you will only get the GSP or "upstream" providers. No problem. 2) Email EVERYONE on that list (and if there are phone numbers, call them- being sure to enable Caller ID blocking since you don't want these punks calling you back), and communicate a Digitial Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) notice to them. 3) Problem solved! Well, usually: If there are any issues, such as if the problem is not addressed in a 'reasonable' time, the ISP can be held liable for not addressing the problem! I have had to pull this leverage on a few occasions, and it sends people running with their tails between their legs. INFORMATION REQUIRED FOR A VALID DMCA NOTICE: Be sure to send ALL of the following information to the domain owner, their ISP, and maybe their upstream provider as well. [] a description of the copyrighted work that is the subject of the claimed infringement (if multiple works are being infringed at a single site, a representative list of such works at that site is adequate); [] a description of the infringing material and information sufficient to permit us to locate the material, including IP address &/or domain name and URL/FTP address, as applicable; name; [] contact information for you, including your address, telephone number and/or email address; [] a statement by you that you have a good faith belief that use of the material in the manner complained of is not authorized by the copyright owner, or its agent, or the law; [] a statement by you, signed under penalty of perjury, that the information in the notification is accurate and that you have the authority to enforce the copyrights that are claimed to be infringed; and [] a physical or electronic signature of the copyright owner or a person authorized to act on its behalf. ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS You can also include a "cease and desist" clause, stating that you will take action against the ISP if they do not cooperate. CAVEATS 1) This is TIME CONSUMING 2) The more effective you are, the worse names people will call you on warez boards. My good name is being dragged through the mud on warez boards, and I love it- it proves I'm having some effect. 3) BE CAREFUL about exposing personal information. 4) BE SURE you can prove that your stuff does in fact belong to you in case you are challenged. FILING CRIMINAL COMPLAINTS The FBI has an online complaint form available by following the links at http://www.fbi.gov. I encourage its use, especially if the offending party does not see the light. I hope this information helps all the legitimate users and creators of digital art, models, textures, etc. And, I hope those out there who would steal from the legitimate community see the inescapable effectiveness of this tactic and correct the errors of their ways. Happy Hunting!

Thanks for the info. -JH.

I'm sure that some people prefer not to "get involved". But in my opinion, people who are aware of warez thieves and other internet gangsterism, and not willing to do something about it, even if in an anonymous way (because they are afraid), are feeding a monster that is getting larger and more powerful every day... People who can understand that religious intolerance, racism, robbing banks and stealing cars, beating up old lady's for pocket change- is a bad thing that must be stopped- should realize that internet theft and gangsterism is eating away their own commercial opportunities now and in the future. There is nothing hip or cool about it. It's theivery and gangsterism, plain and simple...

Attached Link: http://www.arin.net/whois

Another good site to look up the owner of an IP address.

I notified Daz of a potential naughty tonight. Do I get a cookie?

I think you get Honorable Mention for helping DAZ. I think someone should create an "America's Most Wanted Internet Thieves" website and let people phone or email in leads so that these people can get caught...

Can we get back to reality for a moment here people???? A:History has shown that international terrorism rises during the warm months does any one here seriously think that the FBI is going commit any serious resources to hunting down your stolen poser Hair and vickie textures??? B: Warez is usually exchanged via point to point private servers using the same type of client/server software as Napster and is usually free so there really is no IRS unreported income issue to contend with( Like in drug dealing) unless someone is dumb enough to try and claim the "cost" of his stolen seat of windows NT as a business deduction on his taxes. (BTW napster is still up and songs are still being downlloaded despite the recording industrys "Victory" in court) C: the only software that gets the attention of the Justice Department is HI bit encryption and decryption software that could comprimise our national security or military. Not Consumer 3D applications and greyscale bump maps for posettes Lips!! every one here has made their opposition to warez known But Can We give it a rest.............Please Mocap

In the world of Poser Warez Last week: A British Forum was shut down and the webmaster was fired from his job with a server provider. 2 People had there sites shut down A man was fired from his job. I emailed the employers of two other people. Boy were they interested to read my email Oh yeah, the people caught can never buy in any store ever again. And that was just my week. lol. Now we are mobilized and have a network. We share information and work togother. The best tips come from the customers who have paid for the products and hate seeing others get them free. My attitude is if you take something from me I will take something from you: site, job, peace of mind, etc. Nothing comes without a price. Fair is fair. I think it is important for us to always be vocal about our community's adament disdain for Warez. It lets otherwise clueless people know that we will go after them, find them and win. The FBI may not have time, but I certainly do. lol. Anyone having problems or if you have info, just email me at antonk68@aol.com.

Alright! kick some BUTT, Anton! So many people offer weasel excuses! This is why people like Hitler rose to power and nobody stopped him. Or why it took years for the FBI to begin cracking down on Al Capone and the Mob. It's because so many people had a "I don't want to get involved" attitude. Actually its part also of a VERY SLEASY CULTURE that many people are slipping into. Theft is o.k., as long as it "isn't MY STUFF". "I don't care about what happens because it is somebody else's problem- and see, "I have SO MANY EXCUSES that sound COOl and HIP", as to why THEIVING and STEALING is acceptable...

Fox moulder wrote: "I'm sure that some people prefer not to "get involved". But in my opinion, people who are aware of warez thieves and other internet gangsterism, and not willing to do something about it, even if in an anonymous way (because they are afraid), are feeding a monster that is getting larger and more powerful every day..." Is that really a fair thing to say?? Look My freinds I Aplaud your efforts to protect your rights to your digital creations but I think it is a bit much to assume that every one who owns poser etc. has the free time in their daily lives to embark upon a vigilante crusade to rid the world wide web of pirated software. or 3d meshes and textures being used without the creators permission if that your life mission, so be it but I think alot of us who have other prioritys like spending time with our wives and children shouldnt be accused of passively contributing to the Warez problem. Mocap

"Nothing comes without a price"...it may come and bite you one day Anton...you have a network..so do they..but there network has more power than you can imagine.... And like Mocap said you should not be accusing every one that can't spend 24 hours on the Net looking for Warez sites...some of us do have a day/real job so we can pay the bills..

The creator of a work may not have time to check every site for rip-off artists. Even the corporations which make nice packaged software and ship it globally can't watch everywhere. It hurts when someone hands you a shrinked-wrapped copy of a game you made, pirated and produced overseas, and you didn't a get a nickle's royalties for the time and blood... but at least you know who the pirate was. It hurts when you see your art in print with someone else's name as the originator... but you know who "signed" it, and who published it. We rely upon friends and colleagues to spot these things for us and bring them to our attention. Knowing hurts, but not knowing hurts even more. If you see a CD at ebay labed Pozer4, let CuriousLabs know. If you see a compilation of models ripped off the Freestuff, put out the word in the community. You may not have time to do more than that... but that at least reveals the scope of the problem. And, most important, don't buy from pirates. Carolly

I eagerly accept and offer my heartfelt gratitude for ANY and ALL warez reports. Don't go out of your way unless you feel driven to do so, I cannot and will not ask that. But if you find a site, simply drop me an email at anthony@curiouslabs.com with the specifics (URL/IP address, etc. - screenshots are nice) and I'll take it from there. Jarek: The warez phreaks have lots of power on their side. But we have all that power and more. As Anton said above, we can put them out of job and home. Somehow, I rather doubt Kupa is going to fire me for slowing theft and boosting legitimate sales :-). Anthony Curious Labs

I'm not afraid beacuse I will not bother with laywers. If someone screws with me and I find out who they are I will simply get on a plane or bus and knock on their front door with a baseball bat.

I have only two things to say on this issue, both of which are quotes (as close as I can remember them, that is, but I don't know who said them originally). "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem." "Evil flourishes when good men do nothing." Kate

Anthony, Do you truly believe that removing warez copies will increase sales ? The average warez junkie is just interested in expanding his collection and as such increase his standing with his peers. Maybe one or two percent of the pirate copies of poser might end up being used and of those maybe 99.9% would not buy the product if they had to, so what are you losing, a few sales, a very few sales ? On the other side there is the cost of your time to curious labs. I just don't see how the justification is there. Before anyone jumps at me I'm totally against piracy and believe that everyone should be rewarded for there efforts, however I think that the losses that we see in the media are somewhat exaggerated. All in all I think Anthony is doing a great job, I've seen the reaction on some of the boards to his letters, some of the responses are classics, however is it MAKING Curious Labs money ? I don't think so. cya Derik

Lord Derek- who do you even bother posting such weasil-like excuses. Why do we bother going after bank robbers, car thiefs, - why do we even have the Police? According to your "knowledge", all these things are really just minor events we should "ignore" as the price of living, right?... Bank Robbers are only a small percentage of the population, so "why should we waste Police time trying to catch them?", right?. Rapists and child molesters too, all fit into your "brilliant logic". Obviously we should just ACCEPT all of this as a declining slease-ball culture where no one is ever responsible for doing anything wrong... How do you even know what the software and personal property losses DAZ, Curious Labs and individual artists have suffered? Of course Jerek suggests "but there network has more power than you can imagine..." How does Jerek know this? And why is this another "REASON" to give up all personal rights and subject to Jerek's MAFIA-like internet gangs. Hitler would absolutely love this ERA, the people like Jerek and Lord Derik would make IDEAL NAZI's or ideal recruits for gangsters...

Wow, sorry I touched a nerve there :) Does anyone else think that was a bit over the top ? I'm a Nazi.. LOL This is a interesting topic, but I don't think that was called for. What I was saying (which obviously didn't come across), is that if Curious labs via Anthony are trying to stop piracy to increase their sales, then I don't see how it will work. At the end of the day Curious's owners look at the bottom line, they are not going to be on a "holy search" to purge the world of pirates. They are trying to produce a good product and sell it. Hunting down pirates who are going to get their copy of poser and stick it on a cd on the shelf isn't going to make any difference to the bottom line, neither is removing the copy from the "graphics guru" who has every bit of software he can find loaded. There is no chance that they will buy the software. Sure we should do everything that can be done to stop Warez trading, but at the moment how is that possible ? For every new bit of copy protection the pirates seem to find a way around it and so it goes on. I'd love to see the day when pirate software was not available, software would be much cheaper for everyone. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Curious should be the first to make a real stand. How about everyone spend half a hour looking for a pirate copy of poser/pro pack ? I'm sure the sales will sky rocket. cya Derik

Fox-Mulder, I appreciate your passion for this issue, I really do. But I think your passion is blinding you to the pragmatic point that Lord Derik is making. Before I get into that, I will point out that Lord Derik said he was totally against piracy. I think accusations relating to Nazism and gangsterism are unfair and bordering on the histrionic. Onward. Theft of information is somewhat different from theft of property or money, in that having illegal possession of it doesn't prevent legal possession of the same information. The theft is just as immoral, but we are talking pragmatics here now - and in that sense the consequences of the theft are different. If someone steals a car, or robs a bank, that stolen property is unavailable to anyone else. When someone steals Poser, Poser is still available for legal exchange. The pragmatic point that Curious Labs needs to address is to what degree the theft of Poser is affecting that legal exchange (and the profit they make from it). I've no doubt that legal sales are dented by illegal exchange. I also have no doubt that every illegal copy in possession out there does not represent a lost sale. I read Steve Cooper's reckoning that there are as many illegal copies as there are legal ones. I think that is way too conservative. My impression is that there are WAY more illegal copies than legal ones. As Lord Derik pointed out, most of the people in possession of warez are engaging in some strange form of 'collectivitis'. My nephew and nearly all his (computer using) school buddies have a cracked copy of Max, either on CD or, less often, installed on their hard disks. As far as I'm aware, none of them actually use it. It's just a question of being able to bluster "oh yeah, I've got Max3.1, no biggie". It soon gets bumped off to make way for a new game, or something. (Strangely enough, the games are nearly always legal versions. Is it more difficult to 'crack' games?) Now, it is morally and legally wrong for those boys to have Max. It isn't fair to those who have paid thousands that those brats can even open the program to look at it. It is similarly unfair to those who have worked on the thing. They just shouldn't have it, period. But, pragmatically speaking, how many actual lost sales does that represent to the owners of 3D Studio Max? None. Those boys are just pissing about. They're not gangsters, this is the modern day equivalent of scrumping apples, except in this case the farmer doesn't lose any apples. There is no way any of those lads would have paid four thousand quid to buy Max. If it weren't easy 'sport' for them to get hold of it, they just wouldn't have it. Either way, the creators of Max haven't lost any money. In fact, there is a vague chance that one kid might get into 3D, become a pro and buy the package. Now, to turn my argument on its head and kick it right up the arse, it's a perverse fact of life that companies like Curious Labs, who market good value 'consumer' software, are much more badly hit by illegal use than outfits like Discreet (or Kinetix, or whatever it is they're called). It is much more likely that someone will actually want to use the program in the first place, and it quite likely they'll be prepared to spend a couple of hundred on it if there is no other easy way to get it. So yes, Curious Labs do need to be worried and proactive about illegal use. They are losing revenue, and it doesn't come much more pragmatic than that. As to the degree, I obviously have to bow to their wisdom on the issue. My suspicions are that most of the lost sales come from people installing the same copy onto the computers of friends and family, rather than out and out warez downloading. I think a fairly 'gentle' level of security will stifle that exchange. As far as warez and cracking are concerned, I predict that the next software-dongled release from 'Labs will be a little later appearing 'on the streets', but only a little. A product that acts as a plugin to Max is going to join that strange scene that is pubescent and post-pubescent piracy. Max seems special to them - don't know why. As I said in the debate in the 'complaint and debate' forum here, actions like the simple proviso of removing the manuals from direct access on the 'Labs website might have as much impact against 'casual' illegal use as draconian locks on the program will. (Locks that associate themselves with hardware setups worry me, as I'm frequently fiddling with my hardware.) I also feel sorry for third party developers like DAZ and Anton. Their stuff is cheap, and I've no doubt that many of the people using illegal copies would have made a purchase if it wasn't easy to get hold of stuff via other means. Vigilance by them and their fans is possibly the only protection in the short to medium term. So Fox, I agree with you and disagree with you. I care about the survival of Curious Labs and most of the third party providers. For them, there needs to be a cool and ongoing pragmatic approach to the issue of illegal use. Attacking those areas that do the most harm, while minimising 'collateral' damage to legal users is an efficient use of resources. Getting all melodramatic or losing sleep isn't. The rest of us can do our bit, according to the resources and passion we can spare. There are more useful ways to be intolerant of theft than to turn the Poser using communities over to a witch hunt.

First I think it is Utter Hype!!! to compare software Pirates to Nazis There are jewish holocost survivors that would be outraged at such trivialization of the Horror they endured. Fox : As a Black Man I feel very passionate about the fact that there is still ( in 2001!) Black slavery in the Sudan of Sub Saharan Africa What If I accused you of defacto advocating this situation and being a "Likely recruit "of the slavemasters because you are not willing to devote your life to eradicating it. Would you and others here accept that accusation as valid We are 3d artist we are not the JEDI !! can we calm down a bit Mocap

Mocap, I'm glad you mentioned Napster, because, in my opinion, that's Warez music. I think something should be done about that, too, because people are ripping off the hard work of singers, musicians, and recording studios in the same way as software companies are being ripped off with software trading. I don't use Warez anything (software, music, etc.), but I really don't think there's any way to enforce a law on the Internet. There's too much shenanigans going on all over the Net. Just look at all the viruses that keep showing up, even after some people have been caught and arrested and thrown into jail, it still keeps happening. It's a mess. Hopefully, there are more honest people than dishonest ones, but I'm afraid this sort of stuff will always be there no matter what we try to do to stop it. There are too many greedy people in the world who want to get everything for free. Melanie

Well, just wanted to say I agree with mocap, please, stop evocating nazi and Hitler. Have some respect for the victims and for those who spent years in camps. I'm not sure that comparing people who often download software only for the pleasure to say "I've the soft they used for the making of this or that movie" (among them a lot of teenager who would anyway never buy Maya or Softimage or Max) with people who killed and tortured millions of innocent is not something acceptable. Piracy is certainly a problem, but don't compare things that are not comparable or we'll end by condamning a kid who has stolen a bonbon to death ...

My comment? PJF said it all already. 'nuff said.

I'd just like to agree with PJF too, that was the most intelligent posting in regards to warez I've ever seen on this forum. It's tough for people on both sides of the warez issue to understand the reasoning of the other, but you did an admirable job of explaining a little bit of both. Thank you. SnowS Hoping his pictures are worth 1001 words.

Attached Link: http://www.curiouslabs.com/labReport/features/stories/html/stealThatPoser.html

The simple fact is, you theives are trying to "justify" your thievery. You don't get the point about how Nazism developed or large scale gangsterism because you're just too stupid to understand the real point. In the end theives will force lots of new software locks, dongles, backdoor tracking schemes to be developed. You will force many good Model artists who cannot afford these schemes to quit making nice stuff because there is no point in doing it if you weasels steal it all. Look for more websites to go to more extensive security measures using passwords, ID checks and paid subscriptions. This is what your THIEVERY is creating- YOU ARE MAKING IT WORSE FOR EVERYONE and STEALING FROM ARTISTS. You are basically coachroaches running around at night. You are nothing but the lowest scumbags...

Attached Link: http://www.curiouslabs.com/labReport/features/stories/html/locksUpdaters.html

Read this, scumbag theives. Thanks a lot...

Does this mean that from now on we will only be able to install future versions of Poser on machines with internet access? If so, that really sucks.

Hey Fox-Mulder have you ever thought of sending all the scumbag thieves to the gas chamber ? Just who is the nazi here ? Lighten up for Petes' sake.

Hey, PJF. You mentioned that there are more applications that games out there as far as warez goes, and you wanted to know why. That's easy enough to guess. I don't think it's that games are harder to crack than applications, I think that it's probably much harder to crack apps. But there are at least two things that probably come into play there. 1. A game costs $49.95 or so. Many applications cost in the THOUSANDS. Someone who can afford a $49.95 game may not be able to afford $2500 or more, or even $200 for software. 2. Applications probably ARE harder to crack, which from my understanding of hackers, means they like cracking it more than games. From what I've read of hacking, and the movies I've seen, the bigger the challenge, the bigger the emotional reward they get from cracking it.

Alex, I think the reason alot of software packages cost so much is because software companies feel like they have to charge more than they normally would because so many people steal the software. They have to make up for through the people that buy it legitimately, for the people who steal it. It's unfortunate that the people who get it for free, make in difficult to afford, if not completely unattainable for most people who wish to purchase it legitimately, however you bring up a very good point. I think that there probably are a good number of people out there who would legitimately buy software IF they could afford it, but when they can't they will steal it. It's just a viscious cycle that can't be stopped. The software companies can't lower prices because of piracy, and the pirates will never stop stealing software so the prices can come down. It will never end.

Attached Link: http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/gross.htm

{This my LAST Post in this thread} Fox Moulder Wrote:"The simple fact is, you theives are trying to "justify" your thievery. You don't get the point about how Nazism developed or large scale gangsterism because you're just too stupid to understand the real point." For those "Stupid " people who dont undersatnd how the NAZIS began their reign of terror this link may provide some insight. Fox , I think most of the people who use this forum have a strong desire to see CL and poser survive and flourish but engaging in wild eyed hyperbole where you EQUATE the Illegal downloading of a $226 dollar consumer software Package from the web, with human experimentation on women and children and a national polcy that called for total Genocide against an entire race of innocent humans.... well such ridiculous comparisons tend to diminish your Credibility Mocap

I'm not willing to read the thread again, but did anyone here admit to being a thief, let alone a scumbag thief? Just wondering who Fox-Mulder's frothings were aimed at.

PJF, I was just thinking the same thing. I'm not a thief and I'm offended by the suggestion that I am. Sure my point of view is different to fox's but it doesn't mean that I would like to see the same result in the end. Thank you for your post, which was very well written. cya Derik.

{Okay,Okay Im violating my promise not to post any more in this subject/thread} To tbsro: there are basically three classes of 3d/ animation software available 1) Freeware - $999 (poser bryce truespace hash etc,) programs in this range are targeted to the home user of modest means and ambition who is using off the shelf hardware and consumer level retail versions of popular operating systems Win 95/98 win 2000 Mac OS 7.6 or higher 2)$1000-$4000 (Newtek's Lightwave, kinetix's/Discreet's 3D Studio MAX ,Maxons Cinema4DXL etc) programs in this range are often used by major movie effects houses as well as middle to upper income individual artists with ambitions of working in the animation/movie effects business the "out of the box" version usally requires the addition of many Plugins before it is suitable for use in a major Hollywood production. the hardware required to effectivly run these programs efficiently is on the highest end of of what is normally offered to the average consumer and the operatiing system for these apps is predominatey Windows NT or a unix varient to some degree 3) Alias WavefrontsMAYA(complete) MAYA (unlimited) Softimage Pixars proprietary "Renderman" these programs are designed specifically for high level big budget fillm/animation work and frankly have no business in the hands of the individual user or hobbyist due to thier extraordinary complexity. and are designed to run on prohibitively $$expensive$$ Purposebuilt workstations( Silicin graphics etc.) these are not actually 3d programs in the traditional sense but more like Open source 3D interfaces for which you Hire Programmers to write plugins and scripts to give them their true high level functionality and produce the Ultra realistic Effects that we see in movies today. The pricing of these programs have NOTHING !! to do with anticipation of their programs being pirated on the internet or anywhere else. its all based on the intended target user groups that i described above Mocap

PJF- very well said!

rolls eyes at this entire pissing contest, walks out the door, letting it slam behind ..->[ aMP-3 ]<-..

PJF is right, the middle and high end package are aimed at people who will earn money using them. Buying a $3000 problem package isn't a problem if you know that you'll realize a project with it that'll bring you an income of $6000 already the first month. That's an investment, that's all. Surely Discreet, Softimage or Alias are not worried by the home user piracy, the only important thing for them is that the professional users pay for the product because their sale previsions are based on this public. If they really wanted to earn money with the home user, they could easily sell a second version of their product at a very low price but with a special license with restriction in use (Microsoft made it with a complete version of Visual C++ sold at a very low price, the only limit was that you hadn't the right to distribute a soft made with it). If one day they do that, THEN, you'll really start to harm them as a private user when using a warezed Max or Maya, till then... For Poser, it's also true that the situation is very different, with a $200 price, it's clear that the product is as much for the home user and for the professional user and piracy do harm them to a certain extent, but it also bring them customers, I for exemple discoverd Poser by a friend who had a warezed copy (I used, a warezed copy during 2 monthes before to buy it - By the way, before you call me a NAZI have a look at my real name) and anyway, there's a lot of people who download softs that would never buy them if they hadn't them for free For now I really think the most important is to explain to the people we know that REALLY use warez they REALLY could afford they're doing something with more consequence than they believe, open their eyes, that's all. And above all, keep the things at their real place (After World War II my family was 23 times smaller than in 1936, that was what the NAZI did, not to compare with some piracy...) Aaron Perlmann

OK, since some damn bot emailed me about a response to this neverending thread, I'm back in here, and I'm gonna say a few words. First off, cut the Nazi stuff... my roots trace back to that War, and unless youve watched your parents, grandparents, friends, and relatives bawl their eyes out at Saving Private Ryan and Schindler's List (among other related movies), then shut up. And if you do fall into the same boat as I do, then youre smart enough not to talk about it in the first place. I really dont care who started it. I dont care how innocently it was used. But I will tell you this: when you go to Germany (and I've visited, my brother lived there), if you put your index finger horizontally across right above your upper lip (resembling Hitler's mustache), people will either: get a very somber look in remembering the tragedy that members of their country caused. Or they will deem you disrespectful and ignorant for doing such a thing, or even give you a $#!+ kicking. I personally will just deem you all ignorant and disrespectful. And maybe just give you the $#!+ kicking anyway. Second, dont bother with that IP trace BS. Any idiot can get around it. Third, as a former warez phreak (and PJF, this ones for you, my man! :-), I knew exactly how to get the software. Hell, I still do. Whether it be direct from a source inside one or more manufacturers, a store (EB, CompUSA, etc etc etc), a unknowing friend, from an acquaintance's workplace, or whatever else you could think up. I could get it. I have thousands (buried somewhere) in (at the time) hard-to-obtain software. Sure, most of it is out of date, or that I will never use it. I install to see that it works, then uninstall, deeming it another victory. 9 times out of 10, piratez dont get them because they need them, its because they want to say that they did it. That they found some rare find. If I wanted to, I could have sold to someone at discount the software they wanted, getting a few spending bucks for what my internet connection got for me as i slept, and leave them forever wondering how I was able to get it in the first place. The concept of 'trophys' is fairly similar with some hackers. They dont deem hacking a fellow High School geek rival's web site worthy. They dont even think its enough to spend more than 30 seconds mentioning it. They want the real scores. The ones you'd read about in the papers. Microsoft, Yahoo!, Disney, NASA, etc. The more popular the site, the bigger the thrill. So, getting back to the warez issue, I did a little test. I went to a more public area (one that every one of you could use if you found it; and no, its not hard to find) for file distribution, and did a search for Poser. A number of hits came up, but less than you'd think. Now, I then piggybacked a search string on top of 'Poser'. These searches queries I entered included the following: Creative Labs, Creative, Lab, MetaCreation, MetaCreations, Meta, Creation, Zygote, Zygotes, DAZ3D, DAZ3Ds, Victoria, Victorias, Vicky, Vickys, Micheal, Micheals, Eve, Eves, Mill, Millenium, Man, Woman, character, characters, Clothing, Fantasy, Pro, Pack, MapPak, Hair, Morph, update, map, texture, textures, template, templates, pose, poses, CD, ISO I found zero hits. I'll repeat that for the slow readers. ZERO. The fact is, piratez aren't after every single plug-in and add-on imaginable unless they actually take interest in the program. And since most dont, they have no idea about the different characters there are for Poser (ie Victoria, Michael), what company it's created by, or what the hell a bump map is. Now granted, if you happen to be more 'skilled' in finding programs, you wouldn't need the file transfer net discussed above. But for the average user, half of them have a hard enough time logging onto their unreliable dial-up account, let alone them making it as far as a specific web address, FTP server, or newsgroup. Only to find out that their connection will time out before they get 3% into the download, or theyve overrun their monthly time alotment, making it cheaper to buy the program rather than pay the excessive ISP (Internet Service Provider) charges. So I formally said it: I told from the untold side. The side that most here are afraid to speak from. The side that 98% of you at this site detest, dispise, and wish the digital execution of. I honestly respect all of your opinions, no matter what I personally think of them. I'll never say who's right, and who's wrong. Even though you already have. ..->[ aMP-3 ]<-..

I'm new to this forum, but to put my two cents worth in: 1) the reference to the nazi regime is totally idiotic. Fox you should pull your head out of your a** and get a grip on reality. 2)Seeing as you're such a history buff perhaps you realize that people such as you, who accuse any one that doesnt agree with your point of view (ie: calling everyone thieves who disagreed with you) is the exact type of paranoid social engineering that led to the reigns of hitler, stalin etc. 3) when you are old enough and have an appreciation of the horror that many familys including mine went through during the war you may realize what a fool you sound like comparing that to somthing as TRIVIAL as software piracy.

Here we go again...

Like most of the warez threads, this one is slowly falling apart, but let me add my two cents worth before it fades away: I've got a couple of nice people who sent me links whan they see people warezing the stuff I sell, but a lot of them are those more-or-less ownerless message drops where people say "I'm intrested in trading something for other for Supermodel Vickie" What are you going to do about that? The site is just a blind message drop, the guy sending the message isn't doing anything illegal until he actually does it - this is still a free county to the extent you can say "I'm thinking about robbing a bank" and get away with it (just don't say "I'm thinking about doing something to the President - they will jump on that!) (and the FBI may already be knocking on my door for that line!) You may be able to get the site closed down, but another just will pop up. What bothers me more about Warezs is just another example of the new mentality, it is O.K. to lie and cheat as long as you aren't caught! And much as I'd love to see it, somehow I can't see the FBI breaking down somebodies door over warez, they are more intrested in the threat to the President I didn't actually make above, after all. Years ago I used a nice graphic viewing program called CShow, it was pretty widely used (it was even used on one of the space shuttle flights), I was the first guy to pay for the shareware copy, the seller told me. This is how the who warez thing got rolling, not paying for shareware, methinks. How many of you have paid for WinZip? !!! Read the licence next time you use it. Let he who is without guilt cast the first stone... (and all that stuff!) ;-) But warez still isn't right, of course, I'm not trying to say that at all. And we should try to stamp it out, and the Napster stuff and related stuff as well, and if you can't afford it, don't use it!

Warez got started long before shareware was invented. Indeed, shareware was an attempted solution to warez, which we called "piracy" way back then. Anybody remember the Beagle Brothers? They were pre-shareware and certainly had quite a bit of activity in the area of software theft, mostly in cracking the weak security of the day. Many were the pirate BBS that had cracked copies of various games ("productivity" software quickly became too big to download via 2400 baud modem--yes, I've been online for THAT long). These BBS usually also had phreaking info, credit card theft info, and various pornographic areas. Modern warez sites are just same old same old, but writ far larger.