So the devil (I'm not sure) in my head is telling me, making me dream about getting a DSLR but the question is do I spend the money and get into debt for a hobbie and then if I do what are the esential lenses to have with you wide, macro, standard and tele? But what ranges...

a dslr is well worth the buy vera, and choice of optics. upgraded all my equipment last year the cost 3,000 aprrox just under, basically placed the main expense into the optics quality.. macro lens l glass quality and tele lens l glass quality..most important thing when considering upgrading..isnt so much the dslr reason every 6 months bodies are upgraded. new models etc..!! (( even tho a good camera is essential, but not overly neccessary)) placing the main cost in the optics is essential. plus they are transferable to newer bodies in the future, when in the position to up date!!!! Plus never lose with the value... bodies to depreciate in value. ((bit like life )) but l didnt get myself into debt over a Hobby, took me a few months to save, Plus working extra., But thats just me.. if you cant at the is stage Afford the full cost consider a second hand body.. you can pick those up at a reasonable cost... then invest any spare captial into the optic quality... alittle at a time..!!!! Again thats just me call it my Jewish hertiage..!!!.. but always remember isnt the quailty of the camera..but its the quality of the photographer... hope this helps vera..!!!! anyway thats my advise for what its worth.

Tx! I think I'm a desent photographer and am stressing abou the print quality, that's my main stress...

youre a desent ((GOOD)) photographer lmao, no question!!! ITs just that see loads of people getting them selves into debt over equipment and the hobby... when in fact they'd be better to invest in a course at college on the basic's of photography (((Not you))!!! general statement...

anything over 6 meg should be a good quality to print..!! maybe less.. then printer quality...but not up on that side. leave that to the boyz... winks !!!..anyway thanks vera for responding..!!!! appreciated:) Good luck with your choice.. !!

Message edited on: 03/23/2006 03:04

I think it'll be the canon - I only worry about their ever changing lenses... I leave the prints to the photo printing places wink ink is just too expensive here upto R20000 - US$3000 per litre... And tx for the compliment, I've been reading alot! Need a PS course I think :D

If you think you will enjoy this hobby for years to come, then buy a good camera. Try not to set your sights too high though, or I believe everytime you go out to take pictures your mind will be occupied with spending too much. That may interfere with your photography. There is nothing even wrong with starter kits like a D50 with lens. Or if you prefer another brand they all have well priced combinations. As I said to you, remember all the other costs. Cards,spare battery, bag, tripod,UV filter..etc. the list goes on. I'm not really one to talk about being frugal though. A worst offender at getting new toys.I still buy things within my means though.

Tx Doug, I suppose no-one can say without complete certainty that Nikon beats Canon or visa versa coz it's opinion. I've got the tripod now WOOHOO and will haggle for a card, get a bag free and got the filter :D

Doug speaks the truth. Im well aware that i still have just as much money left to spend after i get my D200 till i have the (semi-)complete kit i want. It took a car-crash for me to get over my hesitation and order the body, but i first made sure that i would be able to handle it financially. Im sure you will be happy with whatever camera you chose. Like you said: Nobody can say that Canon is better than Nikon or vice versa. Just keep us posted on what youre getting. #:o) Pssst....you dont have any used lenses you wish to sell Dawg? #;O)

Well lens last for many years.. still have my old film lens for the minolta x-500.. and still in good quality working order and work like a dream...once you have them you have them !!!!..some of those lens l bought second hand also..guess around 20 years old..!!! basically no one can tell whether canon or nikon are better than each other both are renound labels and have reliable professional world wide relationship with the professional world of photography and the media.. and @ zacko sorry my opinion didnt come across as the truth.. but was just advise given to me at the time when in the market for purchasing a digital upgrade, with a long term view... And dougs advise is perfectly sensiable advise also when working within a budget, starter kits are ideal.:)

So how does this deal sound --- 350D + 18-55mm standard + Sigma 70 -300mm +512MB CFII card for R10000 = US$1666 = Euro1250

Thats a really good deal... and lovely lens. working that out in 's.. and good range and a fantastic start.. !!!! its a good deal..350D has come down considerabley .. l have the sigma 18mm-200mm..and works for my needs..!!! yeah sounds real cool....actually love my sigma lens.. when in the market in the future, and if ever purachasing a canon lens for your 350D if you buy USM ((say example Ef 100mm macro USM) its transferable to a future upgrade model.. of a canon..)) Ilona has the canon 350D l think..!!! Yeah really well priced vera ...

I wondered what the USM was tx for the info!

Huh? Did i question you soulofharmony? I dont think so. I was referring to Dougs statement regarding add-ons such as bags, cards, spare battery etc. I thought that was quite obvious. That sure sounds like a sweet deal to me Vera. I would perhaps suggest you go with a bigger card if you can. I dont know how much the cards where you live, but the leap between a 512mb and a 1GB aint bigger than maybe 10 euros here in Sweden. I have a 2GB now and it filled up rather quickly when i was in Scotland last year. #:O)

well budget is every thing vera.. sigma is transferable also to any model, and reliable..Usm canon lens are transerable to any model of canon.. my dream camera dlsr was infact S3 pro fuji, something about the colour quality of fuji, but at the time way way over budget in price..so settle for the canon 20D as it gave me the performance l needed for abut 600 less..and enabled all the other features doug mentioned batteries cards..macro lens etc etc..!!!! my landscapes and water etc etc are all with the sigma 18mm-200mm.. To me sounds like a marvellous start.. !!!..go for it..!!!!

Yeah some very good advice given here Vera Go for the best you can afford it is certainly very worthwhile to explore the 2nd hand market if you are pushed, and then you can afford better quality optics.. And save yourself money later when less good objectives may need to be replaced as your skills increase further, you do good work, and it will be a natural progression to get less satisfied with optics as the quality from DSLR gives you so much more.. When I got my 10D 2 years ago it Cost 1500 and you can now pick one up for a third of that.. The 20D has been replaced so will be a good Camera if you can find one or any of the Nikon Range that have been replaced.. Not being sexist but a DSLR is quite big and heavy esp with a decent sized Zoom the 350D is nice and compact as DLSR's go and you may find this suits you best.. I am sure you can go to a dealer and try them to see which suits you.. There is also some fantastic new Prosumer models with a high pixel count that will produce high quality prints you require.. I have invested in an quality A3 printer and now do all my own.. If you have been using film a Digital will soon pay for itself.. Good luck with your choice

Tx guys you've been a big help - one final Q: As ich said what do I want it for, mainly macro - are nikon better than canon in this respect? But I did here that canon make the best macro lenses in the world...

I'm 5'8" and 73kg of muscle so I don't think the zooms will be a problme wink but thanks for that kind thought!

You will get a variety of answers on that one again if you want real Macro ie life sized you will need a specialist Macro lens I bought a non Canon at first the Sigma 105mm it is without doubt a great lens but it was noisey and moved in and out which scared off my Butterflies and Insects one of my pet subjects.. I exchanged it for the Canon 100mm which has an almost silent USM motor and does not move in and out.. What do you intend to take Macro's of? This may be the deciding factor rather than any brand loyalty Some of the best Macro work can also be done with Non DSLR's Go check the galleries and see what images grab your attention I am sure the photographers will tell you what they used..

l use the canon L glass 10Omm 2.8f..usm macro lens .. see an example on homepage.. the hoover fly..!!!.. canon lenses are naturally very sharp and geometrically accurate across all iris and zoom range. additionally they are classed leading in ability to control internal lense light reflection, ie flare, maintaining a ink black quality. This helps the 3 diamensional look of the captured image giving minimizing post electronic sharping and black control.. l cant talk for other makes.. hope this helps .. now l have work to do..hehehehe !!!!...

crossed with dan.... my old presumor fuji fine pic s5000 was alittle gem with macro.. fantatic quality and colours.. ...Think theres an artist called voogie.. something like uses that model..

going to hire vera to carry my 100mm-400mm...5ft6 ,136lbs took me weeks to get use to the weight of the 400mm... oh well...... serious work to do..!!!!!!!!!....

hee hee hee! 2 years of gym to get like this :} only just lost most of the fat that's now muscle, it's nice to be toned (ripped is for men)...

Don't worry about the cost...unless it threatens the roof over your head ;) It took a lot of agonising to decide on my next camera...finally got a D2X and haven't regret it. Even though it was a lot of money, it was worth it once I had it in my hands and I now use my D70 as a backup. As for Macro...Canon or Nikon...well being a Nikon man, I would have to say....look at the third party options. Tokina, Sigma and Tamron make fantastic Macro lenses. If you are shooting flowers etc, then something in the 100mm range is a safe bet...and gives you extra working distance for when you want to chase some bugs. Me, well I have ended up with two lenses...a Nikon 60mm Micro and a Sigma 150mm Macro. Both great lenses and the Sigma is also a great medium and fast (F2.8) telephoto. My recommendation is buy the best you can afford and save money in the long run. Whatever you get; enjoy and going with either Nikon or Canon, you won't go far wrong. Cheers

Yep I say go for more and higher mb cards too. 512 will not hold much with a DSLR. if in RAW you may get 22 photos out of it.Depending on your megapixel size. Amdreas uhhh no I got no lenses kicking around. LOL Wish I did have some more.

Attached Link: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/digital-rebel.shtml

The canon 100mm f2.8 macro is a fantastic lens (although not an L it should be) it is also an excellent portrait lens. The 50mm f1.8 is an excellent budget prime; ok not as good as the f1.4 version but about a 1/3 of the price. Other lenses that I have used/owned: 17-40mm f4L 70-200 f4L Both are excellent lenses for their intended use, very sharp and contrasty. Also the 28-105mm f3.5-4.5 USM is a very good non L lens, and great value for money. USM is the type of auto focus motor there are 2 types, ring and micro, the ring is the better type and very fast and smooth and almost silent, the micro USM is very quiet and fast bur doesnt allow MF in AF mode, which the ring type does, that may be important for macro work, the Canon 100mm f2.8 macro has the ring USM I cant speak for other brands from experience, but I have heard nothing bad about the Nikon or Sigma counterparts, although the Canon macro is IMO the superior lens over the Sigma 105mm macro for the reasons that Danny stated.

Very interesting reading everyone's comments on this. The one thing I have to agree with is that most of the DSLRs out there are of very good quality, from the Canon Rebel 350D to the Olympus E500 to the Nikon D200. Any of these will produce a quality image, though maybe be suited better to different shooting conditions and one may just feel better in your hands than another. But as Nikki said, bodies will change, but lenses will last far longer. Get quality optics. Good luck and keep us updated.

lmao@ simon... l knew l'd made that mistake of the l glass macro ..was thinking of my 100mm -400mm... trust you to come along.. hahahahaha!!!!!! dan had nudged me earlier..!! kort.. mentions the olympus noticed a few in the gallery use that model.. and really impressed...always impressed with the quality of Joes camera and yours kort...:)

He he Nikki, just goes to show that I read everything (and was paying attention). I know I need to get a life lol Anyway its as sharp as any L I have used, I might even buy a pack of red elastic bands LOL

Yeah I have to agree it could be a L lens cool idea about the red bands lol....

So I went out yesterday and brought the 350D Kit +Sigma 70-300 with macro adn a 512 card that I got for half price... I got home opened up everything, read everything, played around abit, taking shots with old and new so that I could download and compare. Get to my PC to upload the drivers and guess what?! My DVD Drive is bust and shuts down my PC so I took that out and then took pics of my PC's guts... And I'm very happy :D The censor size is def bigger than the panasonic and really makes quite a difference, the manual focus is great. Oh and to all who are waiting for back orders of the D200, our local stores just received all of there stock 20+ each... So you can fly here and get one :} Who would've thought that Nikon would take care of Africa before Europe...

congrat's vera... and good luck.. sorry about the pc...look foreward to your results.. yayyyy!!!!!!! wtg ... @Simon..lmao Red elastic bands!!! hahahah winks.......