Attached Link: Aircraft Carrier Price

I dunno, but I am at the point to make this thread. I just have to. Their are people out their making 3DS models or even into other formats, but I am starting to see a trend on Pricing, getting higher and higher and more of the same models. As if anyone can make a model and go out and market it. Saying that if they can do it, I will to. So, they do. I have encountered many same models that for one will market for $10, then at a lesser detail for $120.00 or even higher (Seen $1500,00 for a car).  I would think, the more of the same car, vehicle, planes..etc...etc..I would think pricing will be lower. Buying this kinda stuff out there is pretty risky. Not knowing what you are about to get and how long can you use it for? When a new OS and new computers, or some software doesn't support it. I do not spend anymore than $100.00 (maximum) a month on stuff (lots) or not at all, depending what it is. I got to pay to have a roof, and feed the family. If my wife finds out I spent anymore than normal (treating myself $20-$100 max month), I could be questioned dearly. Anyone fullish enough to go out and spend anymore than $50 on one item alone, is pretty crazy I would say. I have my taste when it comes to spending and only so much, specially online. Being a fool or being smart on being a customer.

But look at this (link). I am planning on making a Aircraft carrier, and thought, well maybe I can look for something to save me time. Then I saw this price I was amazed. Who would spend that kinda money? Rich people only? It is getting really crazy out there.

Quote - Who would spend that kinda money? 

Companies spending other people's money. Movie studios, professional animators etc.

Models like that aren't geared to the hobby artist or semi-professional.

Basically there are two separate markets: the Hobbyist market and the professional market. The hobbyist market generally has much lower prices. Professionals can afford to pay more because they stand to profit from it. For the most part, hobbyists do it for enjoyment, and sometimes for small amounts of money, so they tend to spend less.

But the lower prices don't necessarily mean low quality. I've seen very high-quality models in the hobbyist market for only a few dollars, and I've seen lower quality models in the professional market for unbelievably high prices.

Generally, when considering a model, look for detailed promo renders that let you see what kind of detail/quality you're getting for your money.

If you know how to comparison-shop you can get some really high quality stuff for unbelievably low prices (some of them are even free)

That carrier you linked to - note that it has 2 million polys! It's intended for movie studio use, not hobbyists with Poser.

a 2 million poly model is something I would not even attempt to render with anything less than 3dsMax or Lightwave

Some of my Vue scenes probably hit the 2,000,000 mark, but that's the entire scene, not one model.

When you build your aircraft carrier you will quickly learn that that price is not unreasonable.  Not something you would buy to play around with, but if you need it for a shot,  you need it.  If you're a hobbiest, figure how much time and expense it takes you to make yours then compare that to what you make at your job.  $1500 might be a week or two pay, so by buying it you actually save time and money.

Thanks people...all makes sense.   Although if for movies, wouldn't you think they will look around for a cheaper price like at renderosity, or even freebies? I have encountered really good detailed freebies. Not a Aircraft carrier though. Haven't seen those around, even for free.

 

 

For a movie, they would need much more detail than even a good RMP product - consider the screen resolution! Also, the cost of the models is peanuts compared to the stars' salaries.

As for costing your time in making a model, this only adds up for professionals. I do make a small amount of money from commercial work with Poser, but if I compare what I make per hour with what I charge IRL for my time, it's laughable. I do it because it's a hobby and therefore fun. The fact that I earn pin money from it is a nice little extra, but not my main motivation.

I'm sorry, but NOBODY needs a 2 million polygon model. The people at ILM, Pixar, and WETA studios don't use models with millions of polygons: they use displacement mapping and textures to get details onto their models. And, in contrast to the massive V3 textures sold here, movie studios commonly use textures no bigger than 512x512 pixels. Even though they have huge render farms, no studio uses textures maps that are 4000x4000 pixels in size.
 
I challenge anyone to find the polygon count of any one of the "Cars" models or the models from "Finding Nemo"... or even General Grievous from "Star Wars: Episode III". I would be willing to bet that NONE of them have over 500,000 polygons.
I would also be willing to bet that the Titanic model (from 1997's "Titanic", made 10 years ago) didn't have 1 million polygons.
 
So, if ILM and Pixar don't use million-polygon models, why should the hobbyist market? A 2 million polygon model is basically saying, "Look at me, I don't know how to optimize a model so people can use it. I've modelled in all the details because I don't know how to take advantage of the rendering engine and use features like texture maps and displacement maps."

Yeah, for something like that, where the render is going to be shown on a giant screen, you need the best models you can get (and a computer capable of handling it), so you'd have to pay professional prices for models that were up to the task.

Quote - ... movie studios commonly use textures no bigger than 512x512 pixels. Even though they have huge render farms, no studio uses textures maps that are 4000x4000 pixels in size.

don't  studios also use multiple texture files per model and take advantage of tiling?

unlike many poser models which tend to have every material assigned to the same huge texture.

That depends on the model. Some require specific mapped textures, some use tiled textures and some use a combination of both.

Umm...so movie studios will buy this? Has lots of polys...gosh..lots. Nearly $200. Same website. Is this why going to the movies is so expensive?

Although I have spent $20 on a way better detailed models, and was well worth it. Any higher on pricing..is risky.

Quote - I'm sorry, but NOBODY needs a 2 million polygon model. The people at ILM, Pixar, and WETA studios don't use models with millions of polygons: they use displacement mapping and textures to get details onto their models. And, in contrast to the massive V3 textures sold here, movie studios commonly use textures no bigger than 512x512 pixels. Even though they have huge render farms, no studio uses textures maps that are 4000x4000 pixels in size.
 
I challenge anyone to find the polygon count of any one of the "Cars" models or the models from "Finding Nemo"... or even General Grievous from "Star Wars: Episode III". I would be willing to bet that NONE of them have over 500,000 polygons.
I would also be willing to bet that the Titanic model (from 1997's "Titanic", made 10 years ago) didn't have 1 million polygons.
 
So, if ILM and Pixar don't use million-polygon models, why should the hobbyist market? A 2 million polygon model is basically saying, "Look at me, I don't know how to optimize a model so people can use it. I've modelled in all the details because I don't know how to take advantage of the rendering engine and use features like texture maps and displacement maps."

Hi, I thought I'd point out that in order to get a displacment map these days, we modelers tend to use programs like ZBrush and Mudbox to generate models that are in excess of 4 million polygons. Why, at Siggraph recently, a single model in ZBrush was created with a polygon count above 22 million polys. These models will then be used to generate the displacement maps you speak of, so in fact, movie studios DO need models that high res. Just an FYI.

Your right, I was at SIGGRAPH watching Z-brush make these models and save them out to displacement maps.

I spoke with someone who made "Cars" and it took 16 hours to render one frame.  It's not the texture maps, it's the lighting that forces huge renders.

It also depends how close or how large the object is on the screen.  Close shots will use those large poly count models.

commercial or government clients may sometimes spend exorbitant or foolish amounts of money in order to meet some budget target. I know it sounds like a joke, but if they economise and cut back on expenditures, the amount that the bean counters allocate to them in next year's budget may be reduced accordingly.

Displacement maps are either drawn or created from high-poly models, so at some point the work has to be done.

Attached Link: http://gunpoint-3d.com/model-KH.html

$50 and 473 000 polygons. I have this, and believe me it is detailed enough for close up renders.

Original model = 2 000 000 polygons

Lo-poly model = 5 730 polygons

Lo poly model with displacement maps created form the high poly, and textures

Now Helgard, that Aircraft carrier looks very impressive. I will be getting tomorrow for sure. That is a reasonable price.

yeah, they should never have wasted polygons on veins n' stuff like that.

Quote - I'm sorry, but NOBODY needs a 2 million polygon model. The people at ILM, Pixar, and WETA studios don't use models with millions of polygons: they use displacement mapping and textures to get details onto their models. And, in contrast to the massive V3 textures sold here, movie studios commonly use textures no bigger than 512x512 pixels. Even though they have huge render farms, no studio uses textures maps that are 4000x4000 pixels in size.
 "

 

I read one of the titanic models was 2.5 million,I wouldn't be surpirsed if the Poseidon was around the same...hi-res geometry is used all the time in film.if a shot needs it.

texture maps can get as high as 8k for a figure,or as low 1k..that's entirely dependant on how close up your subject will be rendered.4k is certainly not unheard of

Davy jones(from the recent pirates sequel) has 10 texture maps in the head alone,including high res displace,spec etc

& displacement isn't always the best way to go for high detail..Spiderman1 used it on the buildings & it worked great..for Spiderman2 they needed characters to interact with the buildings..so high res models were made..bricks,groutlines,cracks..all were modelled in..then plastered with high res textures

Just what I feared the most. From what I seen for pricing on stuff, specially the Aircraft carrier, I jumped on this one.  This one comes in 3DS and also 3DS Max, and not Obj. I did email the person about the problems I am having, also if I could get it in Obj format, and I didn't get any response yet. Been a day. Now, imagine if I spent $100 or more on this. I would be crying, punching walls. But I can be satisfied for now with this for the price I paid. I have learned my leason not to spend anymore, unless if it is $30 or less.

Here is another render shot image. I have about 100 items on the ship floating around, and not attached to where they should be

One thing you can do is download the 3dsMax demo (there's a link at the top of the 3dsMax forum), and export the .max version as an obj.

don't the demos disable file export?

The 3dsMax demo is fully functional with no restrictions  of any kind, for 30 days

The "catch" is that after 30 days it will stop working.

(The reason they give full functionality, is because it is a $3500 program, and people really need to try all of its features before they can make an informed decision of whether or not to spend $3500 for it.)

Cool - the last bunch of demos I tried had all sorts of restrictions that put me off trying them out.

Cheers

It's really worthwhile looking through all the freebies in 3D Max format, lining them up, and converting them when you have the Demo. It is a nuisance the way people sometimes lump together Poser-compatible 3DS with the Max files--it happens a lot with the stuff given away with the British 3D graphics magazines.

Antonia, that's what I usually advise people to do. While you have Max free for the month, download and convert every max model you can find, and save them for use later.

Oh, and on texturemaps and screen resolution, there are high-quality digital cameras at 3000x2000 pixel resolution, using lenses made for 35mm film cameras. Still cameras have a different frame proportion to cine, and the physical frame sizes are different between 35mm still, 35mm cine, and the digital sensors. There are two standard image formats for digital projection, the larger being 4096 oixels wide by 2160 pixels high. That's 170 pixels per millimetre equivalent--it doesn't translate easily to the line-pairs figure used to enumerate the resolution of a traditional lens/film system, but it's certainly pushing optical limits. Unless you're talking about closeups of a person, when you hit all sorts of other problems with CGI, you don't need to render with huge texturemaps. You might have one, as your master copy, juist as a high-resolution mesh can be a master copy. And there's another aspect to the pricing difference: a lot of stuff in the Poser market is still produced to the P4-compatible, and that's actually pretty crude. And I'm not sure how well P5 data structures, including shader trees, will translate to high-end software. Interestingly, DAZ are giving away a special file-export plug-in for their Studio software, for what seems to be an industry-standard interchange format.

Grr...now for someone who doesn't know how to use this program even demo, I am finding fustration on saving. I like to remove some of the stuff on the mesh, for example the propellers. I really do not need.

OK, for thgat, go to the toolbar on the top and select "select by name", then there will be a list of all the psarts in a popup window. Selest the items on the list you don't want and delete them.

 

BTW, to save your obj model, use the export option on the File menu.

 

When I export, I get this option window, with pull down menus?. I am not familiar with this.

OK, I'm not familiar with Max 8's obj exporter, so I'll have the 3ds Max coord, bandolin, answer this (he uses Max 8.

import/export settings for max8.

 

 

Thanks Stonemason :-)

what many of you dont realise is that you have it completely backwards...  that aircraft carrier isnt expensive -- poser content is cheap.

i cant believe that i have been told by several people 'a nice looking product, but $20? why is it so expensive? everyone knows that poser content costs $5' .

Yes, that is why I purchased it. A very awesome model, although it is high in poly. I had to download this demo program (Autodesk 3DS Max 8) to remove some stuff. If I had $3500.00 on me, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the program for personal use, and not business. But, will be nice if their was one modern Aircraft carrier for Poser or any kind of Aircraft Carriers for poser as a matter of fact. We have to think large.

Here you can see I did remove a few things. Helped to use in Poser(6). Still adding the textures that come with it. I removed the propellers, that when i do make image (or video), they will not be showing in them. I also removed some other things. I know the full version of the Aircraft Carrier I have, will do good in the future. Now, to make a ocean...Ummm.

Gabe, Yes, lots of us are aware of that, but the problem is that we're used to it, maybe even spoiled by it. I know models sold in placed like Renderosity and 3dCommune are dirt-cheap compared with the professionla market, but I've gotten used to these low prices, so things like that ship look expensive by compasrison. But a lot of these low-priced Poser models are still of camparable quality to the more expensive ones, basically the same thing for a lot less. And a lot of the freebies from these poser and free model sites are the same quality and workmanship as some of the expensive ones.  And I will usually go with the lower-priced alternative, except in cases where the more expensive one is clearly bettr and the difference in quality is something I need.

Simply put, 3d hobbyists have it made, price-wise, if they know how to spot quality.

btw if some of you are looking for high quality professional models, check out the deespona collection. yeah the price tag is a bit high compared to poser content, but compared to professional content it is dirt cheap. you also get a LOT of models, of architecture, vehicles, military, weapons, etc and most come in low/med/high resolution format.

they are set up for 3DS but they are just models with textures, they can easily be imported into poser and the textures applied manually.

cheers,
-gabriel

(err, just checked the site again, it used to be $400 but now is $700, so thats quite a difference. perhaps they have added content in the meantime? not sure of the exchange rate these days but it seems like the 550 euros is a better deal. their freebie models are also gone, they had a really nice rescue chopper in 3 resolutions, and others)

I have the deeaspona CDs. They're really good and well worth the price.

btw if some of you are looking for high quality professional models, check out the deespona *collection. yeah the price tag is a bit high compared to poser content, but compared to professional content it is dirt cheap. you also get a LOT of models, of architecture, vehicles, military, weapons, etc and most come in low/med/high resolution format.

they are set up for 3DS but they are just models with textures, they can easily be imported into poser and the textures applied manually.

cheers,
-gabriel*

$700!? Wow!...whoa!...yikes.. I was looking for a resonable F-15 or any aircraft for the Aircraft carrier. But I seen an F-15 for $700 on that site. Enough to put stress on my stomach. I have already one for free. I can work on that one I have. I learned my leason already by spending on items were not aware of. I am comfortable at Renderosity...max of $30-$35 range.

 

I seem to remember the city in Stargate Atlantis is some ungodly number of polys..can't remember if its' 300-400k, or 3-4mil, saw it in an article in 3d world, computer art, or one of those mags..

Then there's always the 'teach a man to fish' route.

Blender.org- slices, dices, makes Julian fries. Tries to do everything, with an interface that has more screens than you can shake a stick at. One thing it does do, though; converts about 15 different formats to 15 others (strangely, it imports .3ds, but doesn't export..how whack is that?..;)

Wings 3d- simple, fast, and versitile. 'Nuff said..;) www.wings3d.com

others too numerous to mention..Anim8tor, Truespace, etc.

Not sure how much detail you need, but I've managed to create a 13 megabyte model (haven't the faintest idea of how many polys that is..how do you figure that out?). Save yourself a bundle, 2 models bought would pay for Silo..;) Except for the last, the others are free..

Quote - ...I was looking for a resonable F-15 or any aircraft for the Aircraft carrier.  

F-15 don't operate from aircraft carriers.

F15s and F16s are airforce jets and operate from ground bases

F14s and F18s  (or F/A18 if you prefer) operate from aircraft carriers (and ground bases)

Yes...corrections...looking for F14's and F18's.

Quote - Yes, that is why I purchased it. A very awesome model, although it is high in poly. I had to download this demo program (Autodesk 3DS Max 8) to remove some stuff. If I had $3500.00 on me, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the program for personal use, and not business. But, will be nice if their was one modern Aircraft carrier for Poser or any kind of Aircraft Carriers for poser as a matter of fact. We have to think large.

Here you can see I did remove a few things. Helped to use in Poser(6). Still adding the textures that come with it. I removed the propellers, that when i do make image (or video), they will not be showing in them. I also removed some other things. I know the full version of the Aircraft Carrier I have, will do good in the future. Now, to make a ocean...Ummm.

Hey, it's the USS Kitty Hawk, CV63.  When I was in the Navy I served on the USS Constellation, CV64.
The Kitty Hawk and the Constellation were sister ships, other than a few minor
differences they looked indentical.  I guess if I were to buy that model I'd have to
change the 63 to 64.