Thanks for showing the picture, 3DZone. IMO it's NOT a child, it'a a faery.

Personally, I'm not much into faeries, but not because of the child/not child thing. This one is fine as far as I can tell. But then, apparently I CAN'T tell LOL

Karen, dear.

I'm glad if Warnings ARE retractable. I was told once that they weren't. Seems like either the rules changed on that one, or I was misinformed.

I still find it wrong to issue a warning for removing a picture if it is in ANY way debatable whether or not it was depicting a nude CHILD In those cases: Remove the image, but DO NOT issue a warning. It's not fair to put a black mark on someone's record (no matter how removeable it is) for doing something so subjective.

There are cases where you're dealing with OBVIOUS children, and in that case, a warning is in order, but when we're talking Aiko/Hiro pics... it's not on to issue a warning.

Quote - I still find it wrong to issue a warning for removing a picture if it is in ANY way debatable whether or not it was depicting a nude CHILD In those cases: Remove the image, but DO NOT issue a warning. It's not fair to put a black mark on someone's record (no matter how removeable it is) for doing something so subjective.

I completely agree. Otherwise the situation is positively Kafkaesque - one cannot predict the whim of the moderator, so one has no idea whether one is commiting an infringement or not.

Actually it's already Kafkaesque in the volume of rules on how much of which bits of a body must be covered up, for what "apparent age", for something that isn't even a human being. It would be easier to go out in the street undressed than post an image here!

Quote - > Quote - I still find it wrong to issue a warning for removing a picture if it is in ANY way debatable whether or not it was depicting a nude CHILD In those cases: Remove the image, but DO NOT issue a warning. It's not fair to put a black mark on someone's record (no matter how removeable it is) for doing something so subjective.

I completely agree. Otherwise the situation is positively Kafkaesque - one cannot predict the whim of the moderator, so one has no idea whether one is commiting an infringement or not.

Yep, I agree too.

*I still find it wrong to issue a warning for removing a picture if it is in ANY way debatable whether or not it was depicting a nude CHILD In those cases: Remove the image, but DO NOT issue a warning. It's not fair to put a black mark on someone's record (no matter how removeable it is) for doing something so subjective.

There are cases where you're dealing with OBVIOUS children, and in that case, a warning is in order, but when we're talking Aiko/Hiro pics... it's not on to issue a warning.*

Thank you for making this suggestion, I can see your point. I will be discussing this with the team and the admins.

Just to remind all, we do review images as a panel to ensure we get a majority viewpoint before removing images. Otherwise we do run the risk of the "moderator's whim" situation. (The only time we wouldn't need to review as a panel is if there was absolutely no question on age, such as the mil baby being used completely naked.)

And Lisbeth, sorry you were misinformed about retracting warnings. Or perhaps it was before the decision was made. At any rate - any member wanting their warning reviewed can contact admin@renderosity.com for consideration.

Karen :-)

Now that I've seen the picture I feel the need to write something.

Firstly, the image is very artistic & well done.Obviously she is a pixie & we all know there's no such things (unless I've lead a very sheltered life!). Even though pixies, fairies etc are all fantasy creatures it is still obvious that alot of them portray young girls, even if they are not meant to. It is for this reason that I would never produce an image of a nude pixie,  I'm not particualry offended by this type of art if it's done tastefully (which I think this one is) but I just know that I wouldn't do it as I know alot of people would object, I mean people outside of the art community.  We like to see ourselves as artists & therefore I think we have a wider view on what is art than people who aren't. If I had produced that image & my friends had seen it then they would call me some kind of perv.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that we people here generally don't find this offensive but I think the majority of people outside of the art community would. Or am I totally wrong?

I understand the need to have guidelines, but when does art cross the boundaries?

I have decided to reupload the image using a different model,comments welcomed

Pixie's Dream Redux

-3DZ

I've been blackmarked with the ILLEGAL AIKO branding,too.  That is why I dropped doing ANY kind of Fairy oriented pics around here.  It is NOT condusive to the creative process to operate in a Kafkaesque atmosphere.

I was personally and DEEPLY offended by the iron-handed dictator-like tone of the warning, even if it were a year ago!  Using AIko, an out of the box figure decreed above age (at the time), and then getting slapped down for doing so made me want to quit poser and tell Rendo to piss off.

I got over it when I realized the Rendo is a PRIVATE site. DAZ is a competitor, and produces Aiko. Free speech and other democratic ideals, or civil liberties do not apply within these borders.  As long as you are here, you have to put up with the regime.

Until the regime changes hands again.

The3dZone - No, now you're definitely going to get banned, you're showing a naked pig, NOOOOO!!

Quote - I have decided to reupload the image using a different model,comments welcomed

Pixie's Dream Redux

-3DZ

I find it shameful you had to go do that to an image that was well done all because of a guideline that is infact breaking the artistic freedom law. I think Renderosity staff need to read upon a few things before they post such ludicrous guidelines.  Oh i would like to point out that the artistic freedom law i am talking about is one in the USA.

If i am banned for this from this site that is ok by me. I only come here now because of the many friends i made in the bryce/D|S forum. I hope to make many more in the poser forum now that i have that program to learn and use

JUST HOW OLD IS THAT PIG????

M

its an adult pig, lots of plastic surgery

Quote - I have decided to reupload the image using a different model,comments welcomed

Pixie's Dream Redux

-3DZ

well, could have been worse.... i was half expecting Rikishi :-P

well,since I modeled him,that makes me his mom,so I say he's exactly...21

It would be nice to have some guidelines as to what is considered young.
I.E.  Face shape, Eye size/shape,  Body shape...something, instead of just telling us it's at the descretion of the mods.
As i have said in the past, there are plenty of cute WOMEN in the world, just look at Karen's avatar but if i was to do a nude pic  with a character that looked like her(I'm not) she would be considered a child and the pic would be pulled so what are the guidelines?

In the mood for some bacon!! LOL

There is absolutely no way that the original pixie is a "child" biologically. However, since there is no way to objectively determine her age it is theoretically possible that she's under 18 which would violate the Renderosity TOS. Obviously, as a fictional character it is actually impossible for her to be any age. Out of curiousity, can anyone prove the pig's age? It looks a bit young to me. It might violate Paypal's Animal nudity guidelines.

Don`t pixies wear clothes?

What if they are frying something?

Quote - Don`t pixies wear clothes?

What if they are frying something?

I think you are thinking of the pig.  Frying.  mmmmmm Bacon! LOL :lol:

everyone knows pixie's don't eat fried foods! :tongue2:

Quote - Don`t pixies wear clothes?

What if they are frying something?

Why not just put a leotard on her like Tinkerbell?  Then no one has any complaints.
Why is it necessary for the pixie to be naked?  The pixie would look just as pretty
wearing a nice costume, maybe even prettier because you could have the color
contrasts.  I think it shows more originality and artistic effort to come up with
a nice costume for the character to wear.  Rendering a naked character just
shows a bit of laziness on the part of the artist in my opinion.

Quote - Don`t pixies wear clothes?

The pixies at the bottom(hope i can say that, could be classed as a young one) of my garden weren't wearing anything lastnight while they were moon baking. I see them all the time young and old running aroung naked down by my garden pond and the old oak tree.

Moon Baking = Like sun baking but done by those that can only come out at night.

Oh no, no, no, no, no.........you haven't gotten it right.  It should have been a ~~Magic Pink Pony~~ -- not a pink pig!  After all -- we've got a FORMULA that we're supposed to follow with these sorts of things!  It's like......a grand tradition of protest & non-conformity!  If we are going to Fight The Powers That Be, then we need to do it in the accepted manner!

sigh  They just don't make protests the way that they used to.

Pink pigs......sigh

:crying: well..I didn't have a magic pink pony

LOL Hawkfyr.

It is, however a BIT more than the traditional dead-horse beating this time methinks...

Quote - LOL Hawkfyr.

It is, however a BIT more than the traditional dead-horse beating this time methinks...

Yes: it's non-traditional dead-horse beating.

I can't speak for what the admins/mods will decide to do -- that's all up to them.  But keep in mind that the envelope will always be pushed -- regardless of the envelope's initial starting point.

Quote - I think the point I'm trying to make is that we people here generally don't find this offensive but I think the majority of people outside of the art community would. Or am I totally wrong?

I think you are. I think the majority of people would not find it offensive.

Incidentally, can we please have a moratorium on posting dead horse animations? It was funny the first time but that was six years ago. If you don't find the thread interesting, go and read a different one. No-one is forcing you to read this one.

Sorry..but I've never seen a "beating a dead horse animation.

Please do show me one,

Your are more than welcome to ignore my posts,as I am more than welcome to ignore yours.

This whole post has got to be the stupidest thing I've read in a long time.

Poser people..rolls eyes  I swear...By far the .Bitchiest bunch of people in the entire 3D community.

No wonder no one takes you seriously.

Tom

Quote -   Poser people..rolls eyes  I swear...By far the .Bitchiest bunch of people in the entire 3D community.

No wonder no one takes you seriously.

Tom

Tom, when you say no one in general, like everyone on renderosity it self? Well sir i will correct you on that, i myself am not a poser user. I use Bryce 5.5, Daz Studio, Phot shop pro and paint shop pro, i do have poser 5 but yet to install it since i had only downloaded it 3 days ago. I use many poser models, morphs and the likes in bryce and daz studio so yes i find the poser people interesting and serious.

So some advice for you sir, please don't state"no one takes them seriously" next time, state the correct thing, "you don't take them seriously". so now sir go beat your dead horse and not in puplic or on a puplic forum where others may take offence to it.

PS: please forgive the typing mistakes, spelling mistakes or bad grammar as its 3:05am here and i'm getting tired

What exactely makes it stupid, if I may ask?

Personally I find it stupid that you can potentially be BANNED (say this is your third warning, regardless of whatever the first two were.. could be from looking up someone's noses or calling people dufflebags...) for posting a picture of Aiko OUT OF THE BOX, when the SAME figure is OK to show nude in the Marketplace.

If you can explain to me why this is NOT stupid...

And I don't have links to all the other "beating a dead horse" animations, but believe me, tehre has been a bundle of them through the times here. Some are funny, some are just .. beating a dead horse.

Oh Tom, you would have supplanted Karen as my monitor splasher had jumpy not warned me of this page and I stopped drinking till now...fresh coffee, none on monitor or key board. You are in fact right in that comment. hang on while i check the TOS on child nudity:

I do believe this is an important statement from the TOS that anyone can read, and should read:

No depictions of young humanoid characters/children giving the appearance of being under the age of 18 displayed in erotic, seductive, provocative poses or context.

bolding of the words by me, and giving the appearance of being under the age of 18 is what we discuss and poll each other about during the discovery  part of reviewing an image. This isn't alwyas cut and dried which is why we say, If you have the least bit of doubt[and Aiko models are on the edge both ways], contact an Admin or Mod for a private review before posting. While it may seem you're bothering us, that's in fact the opposite of how we feel and I think it is the responsible action if in doubt.

 I as well have no memory of a flogging a dead horse animation, but if the shoe fits.....it is appropriate and no living animals were harmed in the making of this animation...at least as far as I know....dunno how the pig earlier feels, did any one get a model release as it is nude...LOL?

This is heading down a predictable path.  These types of threads always do.

Yes -- it most definitely IS a dead-horse sort of thing that's going on here.  But that won't stop anyone from bringing it up yet again......and again.......and again.........and again........and........

But of course, pointing out the dead-horse aspect of the matter irritates those who don't like having it pointed out to them.

Rendo's place -- Rendo's rules.  Not the rules that might or that might not apply somewhere else.

A while back someone did an animation of someone beating the P4 Hortse which was lying down, presumablt dead, which they posted inthreads like this one. Although I di think your "non-traditional" one is funnier.

Also, once someone posted an actual photograph of a dead horse (but nobody was beating it).

Beating a real dead horse could get messy.  And smelly.

But of course -- beating a live horse could get you bitten, or kicked in the head...........live horses are like that.  Although the reaction often seems to catch the would-be beater by surprise.

Ah..thanx Jeff...must have missed those somehow...

Honstly.. what makes this go down the "beating a dead horse" route are those off-topic comments about dead horses. Until then, we had a surprisingly mature discussion about exactely WHAT makes Aiko look underage!

In my experience, "mature discussions" always come to an end whenever someone with a different point of view enters the room.

I sure hope you've forgotten I participated in this thread. I hate being accused of participating in a surprisingly mature discussion. Anyone know where there's a dead cat around here that we can beat?

Quote - I sure hope you've forgotten I participated in this thread. I hate being accused of participating in a surprisingly mature discussion.

Me, too.  People might start to talk.

My cats are both alive -- and I prefer to remain on good terms with them.  Although the Office Cat does get moody occasionally.  She's got a way of instantly switching moods from lovey-dovey to clawing and biting you -- you just have to watch her eyes.  When you start to see the shift, then it's best to put her down.

And I STILL think we had a mature and very RELEVANT discussion here until someone (a marketplace tester even) tried to derail it.

It IS a valid question. I DO NOT want a black mark on my record for posting a picture of Hiro which I have NO itentions of having look underage, jus because someone else decides it IS)

Seriosly I'm not sure I've posted ANY Hiro pics here at all 

And what's more.. when I tried to look in my gallery to verify it..it told me I had NO IMAGES! W T F ?!

I have DEFINATELY not deleted my intire gallery. So were are my pics?! points to pic above

Uh, oh......you've been hacked !

Or perhaps all of your images were of Hiro -- that might explain it !

There is no thread derailment here, ernyoka.  There's just disagreement......which some might consider to represent "derailment".  And BTW -- my earlier posts were in response to matters that others had brought up first.  Although I'm not above throwing in a zinger or two myself.

Our "only native criminal class", aka Congress had banned the slaughter of horses. Hopefully PayPal will ban the dead hore imagery here as a result. I imagine people key off the face in the original image since the body is well developed. Given the rate at which girls develop these days (it must be the Puppy Chow), I suppose it wouldn't be unusual for someone to think you were trying to pull the old - put Scarlett Johannson's rack on Dakota Fanning - dodge. It would be interesting to see how the reactions went if you did the opposite and placed an obviously adult head on a less developed body. You'ld probably still get gigged. If you stick to doing mega-mammed Vickis you get slammed by the anti-big boob crowd. Do small breasted old crones and the previous commentator will say you're lazy for not putting clothes on the. There is no way out of the hell that is people's attitudes towards human nakedness. Being maligned, misunderstood, persecuted and prosecuted has always been a hazzard of "free" expression in any form. At least you have some distinguished company. "Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but, unlike charity, it should end there." - Clare Booth Luce

it's not just yours,I checked Bobasurs's(sp?) gallery and get the same thing,must be a bug

Look -- FWIW, this is my personal philosophy re:site rules.  I'm generally of the opinion that you agree to follow a given website's rules when you join that website.  One set of rules apply here; other sets of rules apply elsewhere.  So you follow the rules that are here while you are here -- and then you follow the rules that other sites have when you are at those sites.  I've found that doing so can save a lot of grief all of the way around.  Even sites with.....uh......"looser" image policies have members who attack those sites on a semi-regular basis for not being "looser" enough.

Yes -- the question of getting a black mark is a legitimate concern.  Speaking for myself, I simply avoid the potential by staying away from anything that's borderline.  But that's just me.

Heh, using my honed programmer's intuition I tried tacking &section_id=1 onto the end of your gallery URL and your pics are still there (section 1 is Poser). Apparently, there's dome database glitch going on. "What is this talk of ‘release’? Klingons do not make software ‘releases’. Our software escapes, leaving a bloody trail of designers and quality assurance people in its wake!" - The Klingon Programmer's Guide

Quote - "Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but, unlike charity, it should end there." - Clare Booth Luce

The problem with that statement is that it makes the decision about what's right and what's wrong into a matter of purely individual choice -- everyone doing that which is right in his (or her) own eyes.  It's the ultimate real-world extension of the philosophy of the Marquis de Sade.  Whatever is right is encompassed by what I choose to define as being right.

There will always be someone who wants to have -- no rules at all.  You can't live in a world like that.  At least not beyond the most primitive level.

Quote - Yes -- the question of getting a black mark is a legitimate concern.  Speaking for myself, I simply avoid the potential by staying away from anything that's borderline.  But that's just me.

The thing is, you may post something here that you don't - even in your most sordid imagination - consider a problem - but some admin/mod might not agree and you WILL get a black mark.

I'm SURE, The 3DZone never intended to post an "obvious underage female" with that pic.

I have posted pictures - in my LiveJournal - that some peole has got VERY high on their horse proclaiming they depicted underage sex (and underage homosexual sex even!!!) EVEN if it was NEVER my intention. Some twisted individual even labeled me and other Snarry lovers "not intirely normal" - a badge I wear with pride today! (for those who are unfamiliar with Harry  Potter fanfic, "Snarry" is a designation of SNape/hARRY slash. The term las comes from the slash between the names btw. The first "official"slash (as far as I'm informed) was Kirl/Spock slash, thus keeping it nicely in the Star Trek realm, as my (other) name jusifies...

Oh and BTW don't waste time to search for that pic in my LJ, it's VERY friendslocked now.

Oh and Xeno.. No, derailment isn't "when someone disagrees to what you say" - derailment is when someone starts a whole new subject inside a thread, like the dead horse pic.. I can handle disagrement just fine. In fact I enjoy it. If everybody agreed, what's the fun in discussing anything?!

Ahhh.....but dead horse pics can have every bit as much of a relevance to the core discussion as anything else can --

If a member believes that a dead horse is being beaten: then they should be free to point that fact out.  "Irritating" animations aside.  Some people are irritated by moving avatars, too......but I'm not.

"It's the ultimate real-world extension of the philosophy of the Marquis de Sade." Hmmm, she's talking about censorship, not suggesting that people should be free to practice mayhem on unwilling subjects. With few exceptions, I do not believe that censorship is a positive contribution to society. Others obviously disagree.

No, she's not suggesting mayhem -- but she's advocating a line of thinking that points in that direction: when taken to its proper logical conclusion.

No censorship at all would mean that kiddie porn pictures are OK.  But unfortunately for the children involved: the pictures have to get made somehow.

BTW - it's the official position of the ACLU that child porn should be made legal.  Their fig leaf is to say that the the production of it should be illegal.  That's like saying that it's legal to eat horse meat -- but that it's illegal to kill the horse.