As you might - or might not - have already heard, CuriousLabs is about to start a copy protection as soon as the forthcoming PPP bugfix, which will seriously limit the way how you can install and use your Poser. You will need an activation key which only works with your current configuration, and you will have to re-register whenever it changes. Steve Cooper made some very cryptic remarks at some other thread recently, which leaves you guessing when exactly the new code is needed - first it looked like every Poser install, then he claimed that it would even survive a disk format (which - frankly - doesn't seem to be likely). I'd like to make very clear that I support every reasonable way to fight warez, and have backed - as good as I could as a simple member by keeping an eye on suspicious activity - all MetaCreations, CuriousLabs, Zygote, DAZ, and independent artists whenever they got attacked by pirates. However, I also strongly believe in consumer rights, especially those of legal, loyal and honest users. This new "copy protection" has a couple of serious consequences which should and must be considered by every legal user: 1) You can't install your copy of Poser just on your own any longer - never again. Whenever this "protection" notifies a change, you are dependent on a contact with CuriousLabs. If this can't be established (because the server is down or you are without a connection), your use of Poser will be temporarily limited, and permanently cut off in the long term. This is especially critical if you depend on Poser as a source of your financial living. 2) You are dependent on CuriousLabs' grace when a new Poser version is released - if they stop to supply older activation keys, they (or any company that buys them) can force you to buy the update by stopping the old codes. 3) If CuriousLabs goes out of business, your Poser becomes worthless and all your money that you spent in both Poser itself and supplementary files (figure purchases) becomes void. The fall of MetaCreations clearly proved that a fading company does not care about their users, e.g. when they left localized RDS users in the wilderness. If none of this affects you personally - fine! However, if it does bother you, it's probably good to read on. While Mr. Cooper's statements make it seem pointless to argue or protest against it (because it obviously is a finally decided fact), it raises a lot of legal questions which are not entirely within CuriousLabs' influence. By chance, the recent copy of the German c't magazine (9/2001 on sale till 6.5.2001) has two articles which are of highest interest for all German Poser users, and I can only recommend to get hold of a copy. First of all, there is an extensive article about the forthcoming WindowsXP which is supposed to include a similar type of activation key as Poser (although still weaker, because they claim it is completely anonymious and does not force the user to register with personal data). To cut a long story short - it is very likely that this activation key will break German law, and that the lawsuits against them (which are already under construction) will be successful - like similar final court decisions in the very recent past. The result would be either the forced removal of the codes, or the users are entitled to claim back their money. Even more interesting, on page 46 there is a short note on the German Poser ProPack. According to Egi.Sys, the German localized PPP will not include the copy protection due to "uncertainties of the legal situation". Unfortunately it does not mention whether the initial German PPP already incorporates the bugfix. This raises another problem: Any protection like this will be clearly illegal without a significant warning before the purchase - WindowsXP will have a warning sticker for customers (which is not at all sufficient according to c't's lawyers). Anyhow, the initial PPP does not have any warning like this, and it is essentially lacking because of the number of bugs. But releasing the necessary bugfix with the protection would then definitely break local law. Apart from this - selling the initial version as a "normal" piece of software, and then suddenly adding this protection with the first bugfix could be seen "questionable" in every other respect, to say the least. An important thing that should be considered in future is the place of purchase. I'm not a lawyer, but I guess you should make sure to buy PPP from a local based re-seller, because this will significantly improve your chances for legal action and possible re-claims, while direct purchases from overseas resources will certainly make your position weaker. According to your own local consumer rights, this might be equally true for other European countries. Now the world is really getting smaller every day. The fact is, that local re-sellers must grant minimal consumer rights on their own, even if their goods originate from different countries which do not protect their people - and they are liable for it. If they dont't want to take that risk, they can't sell the product. I'd like to add a personal remark at the end. As said above, I tried to support everyone's rights in the past, but "everyone" includes honest users as well. CuriousLabs has earned an amount of sympathy and support by their user community which is rare in today's world. This support - which goes far beyond average moral behaviour - has certainly helped to fight the darker sides of the net in the past, we all witnessed the degree of support and solidarity whenever it has been needed. However, if they now think they can hit pirates by kicking honest users, they start to act like a doctor who fights cancer by killing the patient. We all know that certain other software companies are rather seen as "enemies" by their own customers, which significantly influences the way how they react upon infringements against them and their attitute towards the abusers. If a significant number of potential users everywhere stops buying it, because they draw their very own dividing line right here & now, and if no local re-seller deals with it anymore (because they are afraid of damage re-claims) and magazines recommend to avoid overseas orders (like they already do) the result could be nothing less than disastrous - for all of us.

They do anything like this and I will NEVER, EVER buy any of their products again! If this is true... they are MORONS... they will alienate and/or lose MANY of their true customers in an effort to stop a few illegitimate ones. I too condone reasonable attempts to get rid of so illegal copying... what is proposed above is NOT reasonable. That's even worse than a hardware dongle key! Guess it's time to start saving up for 3DMax, looks like my days of patroning Poser will end at version 4.

Martin, You have bought up some great points, and like yourself, I have also been active in letting companies know when I have seen their products on warez sites. When I first read about this new copy protection scheme, I could understand why Curious Labs had done it, but did not understand why us innocent users had to suffer in such a way. These are the reasons for my hesitance in using this type of protection: 1. All that Martin has mentioned above. 2. As you say Martin, software companies come and go, and I don't fancy having a useless piece of software that I can't use because the company no longer exists. 3. It would be nice to see CL help them selves out a bit more. It has taken them longer to sort out a registration procedure for it's existing customers, than it has to develop and release a new product (PPP). 4. Maybe they should look at Maxons way of handling piracy. 5. Just 2 weeks ago I let CL know about a giant warez site, that has everything on there from Adobe Premier, Lightwave, Poser 4 to Partition Magic etc. Went to check to see if it was still up on seeing this post...and yes it was. I'm starting to wonder if the support that we try to give software companies is really taken that seriously! It is funny that you mention Germany, as it is a part of the EU, so the same laws could be in force in other EU countries. What ever CL does, I will always support software companies against the threat of piracy, but not at the cost of a "sharp stick in the eye" for being supportive to them in the past. Cheers

Egads! I'm so depressed now. Do I even want to keep buying accessories (like Vicki 2) for a product that appears I will not be supporting in the future....

Personally, I think thats a bad idea, if I had to download an update all of the time and have the company have the potential to be able to cease my use of the program, I think that isnt fair. It loses all of the simple uses of a program, whats next, having to type in a username and a password to be able to use each program???? Also if this program is able to send out the times I use the program and all of that out to the companies, isnt that an invasion of privacy? Also I have documents and such on my computer, which are private, if their programs are capable of monitoring piracy, then is there a chance that these built in utilities can send out other data as well? (passwords, credit card numbers, online ordering info) If this could potentially give the companies the power to do that to my computer, I definatly think the software industry would crash, because to have my privacy invaded is a terrible thing. Also if this "Limits" your uses of poser, does this mean being unable to use two copies on two different computers that I own? If companies can shut off your use of the program, then couldnt they just force you to buy updates and such? Personally thats scary, and unfair. That is my two cents, maybe some more change will be thrown in later :)

I agree that if they do the above, then they may as well kiss their business goodbye. People will do "reasonable" things to use a program, but jumping through hoops everytime something changes is not one of them. I have always said that the people who use illegal copies of programs really don't ever use them for anything worthwhile anyway. Usually it's just a trophy to say that they have it. Learning a program like Poser, lightwave, max, and many others takes an enormous amount of time and energy. These individuals don't "usually" invest that kind of effort into learning what they steal. In the end, would they buy that product if it wasn't able to be copied? I don't think so. As was said above, That's my two cents. I know people from Curious Labs monitor this page, do they have anything to say on this whole matter? Dragontales

Ack! Still depressed. I feel betrayed by the very company I have been trumpheting for years. I feel like someone who has been voting for a senator for years and campaigning for him... only to find out that he plans on completely destroying my state's enivronment... all for a few extra dollars. Kind of like... "Oops... I forgot to mention this earlier... but I'm a complete bastard"."

I have a copy here at work and a copy at home. I definatly will not uninstall it at home, reinstall it at work, work on it, uninstall it at work, reinstall it at home. When demands like requiring them to call everytime I need to reinstall start, I normally say no. After all I would have had to call them 6 times already in the past month for my home computer for each reinstall. My name would be flagged and they would start searching to see if I used pirated software. I don't like people looking into my life in all honesty. Anyone who disagress is free to put up their real name, home address, and social security number.

Oh well I already own lightwave 6.5 and cinema 4DXL and poser4 with the first propac release so i will most likely be saying goodbye to poser except for exporting my current poser figures mike& vicky as lightwave objects and rigging them in lightwave. Mocap

Hi Martin, I'm with you in this point, but there is a very simple and effective way to beat such activities: Just don't buy such software! Since I can't beat the feeling that recent updates are mostly made to please shareholders and not for adding usefull features for customers, it's an easy decision. (or could anyone give me just one good reason why I should update my Excel 97, Win 98, Photopaint9 ??) So what about PPP? OK, it's a "must have" for me since I heard about it and I'm looking forward that they accomplish the international versions soon, but if they would offer me such a "copy protection" the consequence would be that they'll lost a customer for ever. I'm a hard working and honest man, and nobody should treat me like a pirate or thief if he want me to spend my money for his products. Nor should anybody try to force me to visit his website and wast my time for his copy protection. (Guess that's the real reason for such a "copy protection") But let's wait what happens. I think this curiouslab guys are reasonable people who knows who makes them pay their bills. I can't belive that a company with such outstanding products and a good reputation in the community will realize such an dubious idea. I guess and hope that this is just a rumor. my 2 cents Thomas

I have a desktop and a laptop. My understanding of software licenses is that there can only be one concurrent use of the software at a time per license. I can either let anyone use it from one of my computers, or only I can use it from any computer I install it on. I choose option 2. (I don't play well with others. ;-) ) Soon I won't be able to do even that. I repeat a conclusion from an earlier post with all my problems with PPP: Character Studio is looking better and better all the time. I already have Max. I hate the hardware dongle but it'll be an easier solution to move the dongle between computers than use CL's solution.

With the software dongle that is being implemented in the Poser Pro Pack, you only need to connect to the Curious Labs website ONE TIME. You have a grace period from the time of installation to make that connection. CL server downtime is not an issue because they are not going to be down for several days straight. If you install Poser on a machine that is not connected to the internet, you can call their offices for the unlock code. For most internet connected users, this process will be invisible and no extra work for us. The only time you would need to connect to their server again is to unlock Poser if you installed it on a new machine or a new hard drive. Honest users ability to use Poser will never be "cut off" unless A) Curious Labs goes out of business AND B) The hard drive you install it all becomes completely un-usable.

Martin you are mixing terms and exaggerating this. Curious Labs is only using methods already established by other 3D Software manufactures such as Newtek and Discreet. I highly suggest that you re-read Steve's posts and the information in the Newsletter with an attempt to understand the new system rather than to feed some sort of conspiracy theory.

But what will I (as a GERMAN Poser User) do if I have to update my ENGLISH Version of Poser? Will there be a copy production issue for me too? Or will I be forced to buy a german - localized - PPro? I don't think I will buy a product using some"illegal" copy-protection features. But - we all know abot this fact - there are some "major keys" for all this "Microsoft XP" stuff all around the net; You could read about this in several computer magazines also. I don't think that this type of copy protection will work for a long time.

You can reinstall Poser Pro on the same machine as many times as you want without needing a new auth number or contacing CL. You can even have it installed on 3 machines simultaneously.

ookami, if you're planning on saving up for Max, be prepared for more limited copy protection devices you have to deal with.

Mocap, if you own Lightwave 6.5 you know about the unlock code they require. This is all CL is doing...and no hardware dongle.

No JKeller... according to the article above... if it can't go out to the internet and verify something... it gives you a limited version. WHAT THE HELL?! So now I can't use Poser on my laptop?! I'd rather deal with a hardware dongle I can stick on my laptop's parallel or serial port. MUCH easier. PLUS... I use Poser on 2 seperate machines.... but I'm doing it by moving the hard drive from one machine to the other using a removeable hard drive bay. What happens now? It is "coded" for one machine... but not the other?! Bullsht. Oh well... Poser was nice while it lasted.... This is one of those cases where greed will get the best of them. They aren't Lightwave, 3DMAX or Autocad... high powered applications used by movie and multimedia professionals... Poser is probably 80% amateur/casual users. They're going to cut their own throats. Oh well... believe what you want. I will not buy the next version if they try and pull sht like this. And I'm sure there are quite a few other people who won't either.

"according to the article above..."

What article? The first article Martin mentions is about Windows XP and the next one has to do with the fact that the German version of Poser Pro won't include this device. According to Steve Cooper, you only have to connect to the internet ONE TIME to get your auth code an you are set.

Hardware dongles can break and in office settings they get stollen. Replacing a Hardware dongle requires the company is still in business, and it often costs you money to get the replacement. Plus downtime waiting for them to ship you the new one.

I'm not sure how it will work with your swappable hard drive, but I'm sure there's some solution.

Well, if curiouslabs do that, i think poser is over. We only have to think one thing, all this protection only goes against legal poser propietaries. All the protections the software companies try to do always are desprotected by the pirates, only we have to look around us. This protections always go against legal propietaries, this is not the initial intention of software companies, but at last , this is that it happens. I hope, for the good of poser world, curious labs dont do that.

The copy protect sounds like the Vbox system or something similar. I use several programs delivered electronically using Vbox -- from Digital Origin, Macromedia and Adobe. So far only Adobe GoLive 5 had the restriction on movement and re-installation of the registered program. (but Adobes license does allow for a home copy and office copy). The technology also allows for full version time-limited demos which can't be reset so I think the claim about surviving a disk format is valid. It only requires contact with Vbox on installing/purchasing it. So far I haven't had any problems but I haven't had to re-licence my copy of GoLive yet. My main concerns are backup of the program and continuing upgrading of my hardware. (It might work to stick the program on an external drive, I don't know) The big incentive for me was price. It was cheaper and quicker than getting a boxed version. If Curious gives a substantial discount and ESD, it might encourage people to use it. (The feature set of 5 had better be good too) I do think its a very bad move to tie a bug fix with the implementation of the scheme. Cynically I wonder how long it will take hackers to circumvent it, ultimately its all only a delaying tactic. As for Curious going out of business, the worry would be for both Curious and Vbox (or whoever handles the scheme) to go bust. I do think the new system will be a PR headache to Curious if only to get its customers to trust them and buy into the system. How long it lasts will probably depend on Curious's bottom line. If they make more money they'll continue with it, if customers leave in droves they'll probably rethink their position. If a competitor comes out with a similar unprotected compatable product, it would also require a rethink. The big difference with the Adobe product was I had a choice with GoLive to buy a version in a box that had no restrictions (apart from normal license) --I may even still be able to purchase a standard CD ROM version and paper manual for an extra charge. Curious doesn't seem to be offering that choice. Its a pity that legit users are seemingly being at best inconvenienced, at worst punished because of pirate users. Depressing all right but I wouldn't get too paranoid about it.

JKeller I can not understand how you will only have to visit the site once to register on the software dongle. The only way that can happen is if the registration info is kept on a hidden partition, a whole can of worms in it self. As soon as you re-format, and try to install Poser again, as far as the software is concerned it is a brand new machine, unless the software has to connect to CL to varify that the registered user of the computer tallies with the serial number of the software. Exactly how much info is needed about your PC to make this registration process feasable? Cheers

I would HIGHLY understand the procedures like that being done with 3d studio max, lightwave, and all other big name applications, but we are all talking about a $300 piece of software in which is not really necessary. Also will the poser prices go up because of the anti piracy tools they are making for it? Prices WILL go up because of that, which is stupid, like Dragontales says "the people who use illegal copies of programs really don't ever use them for anything worthwhile anyway." I agree so much with that statement, I think the companies are at no loss, because the people who had to drive themselves to search and download a copy of the software, they most likely would not buy it because if they had the money for it, they would have been willing to buy it!

Attached Link: http://www.curiouslabs.com/labReport/features/stories/html/locksUpdaters.html

Darth, considering how many warez copies were distributed in the first week of Pro Pack's release, it seems that some procedure is neccessary.

Well boys and girls, curiouslabs tell us: Let me enter in your computer because i need to know you are using a legal copy. Well, they are asking for us we trust in them, but they dont trust in us. Well, my computer is mine, Curious labs or any other software company is not the owner of my computer. And guys, we are talking about a cheap program, Who is so stupid to get a warez copy of this program .

They are not entering your computer. When you register, your computer asks them for an unlock code.

Who is so stupid? Check the Forum news board and take a look at how many people they have to bann from this site. And that's just a small percentage.

...and yes it is going to happen... Yes... and THIS is going to happen... I won't buy it... Wow... look at that... they just loss a customer... and it wasn't due to warez.

Yes i know, there is many stupid people. Whe CL do that, How many time do you think pass till a pirate do warez copy of the protected program? one week, one month....

ookami, I suggest you read up on this issue with an open mind before you jump to conclusions. If you want to stop using a tool that you are very good at (IMHO) I can't stop you, but I would hope you atleast make an attempt to understand the facts instead of basing your decision on a misunderstanding of the issue.

adh3d, locks keep honest people honest. This probably won't stop or slow down your hard core hackers and folks who get all their software from warez sites, but what it will do is stop people who don't realize they are doing anything wrong. Like folks who borrow CD's from a friend at school or at work.

Well, that's a great way of doing things, to avoid children in the school share cd, all the people who use poser to do profesional work have to have a headache everytime we are going to chage something. I have poser 4, i am going to buy poser 5 when it will go to the market, but if poser 5 will have this, sorry, but i stop in poser 4.

It's a lot more than just children at school, adh3d, and I'd be willing to bet folks who lend CD's to their friends are the cause of more lost customers (people who would otherwise purchase the program) than what takes place on "warez" sites. Both cases are still illegal.

I have no problem at all if it works like the one with Max- you plug a dongle into your printer port, you install the software, you get 30 days to call in your serial number,when you do you get a "real" number that works forever, on any other machine you put the dongle on. I'd like to see some kind of provision for running the software on another machine though, right now I have Poser on a Mac at another location. Keeps honest peopler honest, but I think there are still tons of Warez copies of Max out there. There seems to be a lot of people with nothing better to do than to crack and steal software. Maybe what we really need is a course on ethics at every school!

No need to stop using poser altogether, just don't buy poser 5. I certainly won't if this is put in.

I think they'll lose more than one. They think that they'll make more money by keeping it out of warez sites? Those people who get their software from warez sites do not buy software! I have been waiting patiently to see if PPP would be worth the money, (by reading the forums, not warez!) obviously it is not, by the number of bugs and now this. Hey look, they just lost another legit customer, and I saved $200. I do feel sorry for those who have already bought PPP or those that need it for work though. I think that I fall into the majority of Poser4 users, I'm a hobbist.

Hi JKeller, just to make that clear, for Lightwave and Cinema4D you have to register and get your "final serial number" or unlock code once. IMO forcing customers to register isn't legal either but that's another story. The point is, that if one have got his final unlock code from Newtek or Maxon he can install the software on every machine and theoretical for ever. You'll not be forced to have any further contact to the company. If it is that what CL want to do, ok, I'll hate it but I could live with that. Updating the unlock code for any reason is just not acceptable for me. An other point is, that PPP is just an add on for Software like Lightwave or Max. Some Lightwave user have 10 and more of such commercial add ons and plug ins. Now imagine how delighted one would be if every company had such a software protection and one have to update 10+ lock codes every time he change the machine. regards Thomas

From how I understand it Jim, it works similar to that, except that there is no hardware dongle and you need to get a seperate unlock code for each new machine you install it on. You don't even need to call them, because you can handle it all straight through the website. Although you do have the option to call them and handle it that way.

Well. Poser 4 is a great program.

From how I understand it Jim, it works similar to that, except that there is no hardware dongle and you need to get a seperate unlock code for each new machine you install it on. You don't even need to call them, because you can handle it all straight through the website. Although you do have the option to call them and handle it that way. And if you don't have internet access from the PC you are installing Poser on? JOY! JOY!

Well, its been somewhat disappointing watching poser for the past year or two. with the whole meta creations-curious labs deal, the somewhat disappointing pro pack, and now this? how long do they think it will take till someone is able to crack it? What do they think this is, frickin Maya?I am an honest poser user, I paid good money for poser 2, 3, 4, and the pro pack, why do i have to suffer? I guess ill just uninstall and reinstall my Metacreations copy of poser 4. Like many of you have said, maybe it's time to move on to 3d studio max... or maya.... anyone spare some change? $3500 to be exact? --------------------End Rant-------------------------

I eagerly await an update for the pro pack to fix my problems with max 4, but I am not sure its worth it to upgrade now that my ease of use is decreased. I do understand Curious Labs' stand on the warez, but were your sales REALLY suffering? It is said over and over that the people who bootleg software NEVER pay for software, and that is completely true in my opinion. I think there would be a big loss of customers on account of this convenience we all had, which will soon be taken away, with every update we download, and have Curious Labs control my use of the program, that is a bad thing for me. This is all like saying, if I bought a video game, (if bought it should become MY POSESSION) but if the company has total control of my ownership of that game, then I guess it really wouldnt be owning it! Software should be treated as property, and if I bought lets say.... Poser 5, I think it should be my property, not to be controlled by the company, and have them check me each day to make sure I am not pirating anything.

Ok, after reading the long.....line of messages, I basically have a couple questions regarding this issue. Perhaps they were answered above, but...well, call me stupid. 1. Each machine I install it on, will need a new unlock code, right? 2. Do I need to reconnect and get a new lock code if I reinstall the software on the same computer, or is there a place where you type in the original lock code? 3. If there is a place for the original lock code, what prevents me from using that same lock code on the other machine? 4. Is it mandatory to register my program with CL to use the new software? Dragontales

ookami, re-read that same paragraph you just quoted from me. If you don't have internet access on that machine, you just call them for an unlock code.

Darth, they are not checking you every day, and I think that is how a lot of people are unfortionately misinterpretting this issue.

"people who bootleg software NEVER pay for software"
That's a falicy. You seem to think there are only two groups: good, honest users and warez kiddies. The truth is there is a lot of gray area inbetween.

Right Hemisphere went that route and it sucks. I didn't know that before you format you have to unregister the program in order to reregister it. Took multiple calls and emails to get it straightened out. I will update once just to get the update, but I will never buy another product from CuriousLabs again. Any warez site has ways to get around ANY dongle, copy protection out there. Basically I read that they just change the code so it doesn't look for the dongle or cd or whatever. I hate piracy, but I am DAMN sick and tired of being punished for it. I have an account at the bank. So if multiple robbieries occur I have to be the one responsible for making up the loss to the friggin bank???? Let's put a STOP to this by boycotting these companies. I've HAD it with being ripped off by the very companies I have been SUPPORTING by purchasing their products. They need to remember where the dollars COME from...not where they GO!!! Marque

dragontales, this is just how I understand the issue from what I've read.

1. Yes, you need a new unlock code for each seperate machine.

2. No, you can reinstall the software on the same machine as many times as you want, without needing to enter the original code at all. It stores this information on your hard drive the first time, and will read it each time you reinstall.

3. Each new machine you install it on, it writes a seperate lock code on your hard drive. Each seperate lock code requires a specific unlock code to uninstall it.

4. I beleive you do need to register your program, at some point within the grace period, in order to use it after the grace period is up.

ookami, re-read that same paragraph you just quoted from me. If you don't have internet access on that machine, you just call them for an unlock code. Uh... no... THAT was my point exactly! Now I have to call them... joy... joy! Do I WANT to call them?! NO! Do I WANT to waste my time on hold or talking to someone... I have better things to do with my time than to sit on the phone waiting around for an unlock code for a $300 piece of software. "people who bootleg software NEVER pay for software" That's a falicy. You seem to think there are only two groups: good, honest users and warez kiddies. The truth is there is a lot of gray area inbetween. Right... there's (a) the people who try it and then buy it because it's good... and (b) the people who try it and don't buy it because it's crap... and (c) the people who toy around with it... get bored and move on to the next thing... and finally... (d) the people who like it but don't buy it. Ok... just assuming that those are the basic categories... are they losing any sales from category (a)? Nope. In fact, they are gaiing sales. Loosing sales from category (b)? Not really... those people who probably just return it anyway and definately wouldn't be repeat customers. What about (c)? Perhaps a few. And finally (d). Yes... (d) people suck. But I don't feel like being punished because they suck.

1. Yes, you need a new unlock code for each seperate machine. Each seperate machine? So, for instance, I have it on ONE removeable hard drive that I use in 2 machines - my work machine and my home machine. If it writes the code to the hard drive... which code does it read? Does this mean it will only work on one machine now? 2. No, you can reinstall the software on the same machine as many times as you want, without needing to enter the original code at all. It stores this information on your hard drive the first time, and will read it each time you reinstall. What if the hard drive blows up? New code? What if you install a new version of Windows? New code? What if you use disk compression? New code? No code? What if you move the hard drive to a new machine? New code? What if you then stick the hard drive back in the original machine? New code? Sorry... it's just alot of extra headaches for us legitimate users. And you know it's probably going to take oh.... about an hour or so for some 12-year-old pimply faced whiz kid to crack it anyway. Then it goes back up on the warez sites... but the legitimate customers have to suffer through greater burdens.... WHERE DOES THE INSANITY END?!

Scenario (18 months from now): You have had Poser 5 for 6 months, and last month CL went bust and ceased trading. You have found that your PC cannot handle the more advanced software or complex Poser scenes that you are now creating. You decide that you need a major PC upgrade, but how are you suppose to do that and keep PoserYOU DONT! Steve Coopers press statement at the website does not promise anyone that CL will be around for as long as you want to use Poser. If CL went belly up, do you think they would really care if there where thousands of users unable to use the software that they paid for, because they need a new PC. You dont think that CL could go bust? Look at the reasons why they are prepared to use this software dongle in the first place. Within 6 months of the release of the software dongle (if not sooner), cracks will be floating around the web. If Steve Cooper could promise (and I mean promise) that provisions have been put in place (in the unlikely event that CL did cease trading), that registered and license abiding users could use the software for as long as they like on any machine, then that would ease a lot of fears. Cheers

1) You can't install your copy of Poser just on your own any longer - never again. Whenever this "protection" notifies a change, you are dependent on a contact with CuriousLabs. If this can't be established (because the server is down or you are without a connection), your use of Poser will be temporarily limited, and permanently cut off in the long term. Please God let this be a hoax or a joke. What happens if the user hasn't got internet access? Not everybody has!!!! Otherwise, Poser 5 etc can keep itself, all that silly paranoia because e.g. a few people buy a Poser and install it on two computers. Poser 4,0.3's nosing about the local net looking for duplicates was bad enough.

pasted from the Curious Labs article "And even if your computers hard drive is reformatted, this code would remain intact." Start......Shut Down......Restart in MSDOS Mode....at the prompt, type in format c: /u ....no more code that can alledgedly survive a format......rebuttal, anyone?????

Cheers, I'm worried about the sceneraio you describe as well. Don't get me wrong, I'd much prefer that they didn't do this, but it seems they are. It may be a minor inconvienience to me, but I personally don't see it as a punishment.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm not saying that we should not question what is happening...we should. But let's get the facts straight and attempt to have some sort of rational discussion about this before we start calling for boycotts. I have a lot of respect for the people in this thread but I feel like there's a mob mentality developing here. Let's keep this rational folks.

JKeller, Huh? If I do a full reinstall (fdisk) how can it keep the hard drive key? I normally write zero's to the hard drive and do a clean install and I wonder how they are able to keep it without doing that. Or do I have to go begging to them each time I do an install of 2000 server. Also, I do not want Curious Labs to have any information about me. Is there anyway I can use their future prodects without being a number in their database?

Just 2 weeks ago I let CL know about a giant warez site, that has everything on there from Adobe Premier, Lightwave, Poser 4 to Partition Magic etc. Went to check to see if it was still up on seeing this post...and yes it was Leaving this big warez site up and fussing about a few people loading on two computers is "killing the kitten and letting the cat escape", as Tolkien wrote. Anyway, if someone has a desktop and a laptop, and loads on both, but only uses one at a time and doesn't let anyone else use either, is not breaking a condition about only one user per sold CD-ROM copy of Poser.

Hehehe, that's really a fair solution. Bye, bye Poser5. Sometimes people should think things to the end before making such things public. Just my opinion. Means, i love poser4 and have one more point why not to jump to PPP. SHARKEY