Attached Link: http://excalibur.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1315368

Two days ago, my daughter Caro (caro_gigi) uploaded a sublime portrait of a Balinese child in her gallery : http://excalibur.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1315368

When I saw this portrait, I was speechless… then, I told Caro that this image would for sure supplant her “lecherous monkey” as her most commented image….

And today, this image has got 19 views and…5 comments (including mine and the one from Marie…) L

(while my stupid gull image (not even a good one, posted the same day) got 55 views and 24 comments !!!)

It means either it’s not a good picture and then Caro (and me, since I consider myself also as a candid portraits photographer… ) would appreciate receiving critics and advices to improve, or the Rendo community is in its great majority not interested …in photography… ?!

It’s just a “club of friends”, chatting, playing games (participating to challenges, “show me” threads,…), commenting each other images, …

In June-July, I tried very much to highlight the work of members that, in my opinion, would deserve more views (I choose everyday my favorite in the previous day uploads and put the thumb in my comments… but I rapidly found that these efforts were vain and pointless

For me, it means also that the time is coming to move to a different place, where people are really interested in photography, where so many good artists have moved and are…

As a mark of respect for some very good friends made here, for the ** 93** members which added me to their favorite artist’s lists, and for the 12747 comments received on my 638 images uploaded so far since joining on ** May 28, 2004****,** I will not delete my gallery….

But I will find a new way of living in this “weird” community…

So long ! * salute * !

Good bye Michel, I wish you luck in finding a place on the internet that will offer honest critique and advice.

This situation seems to be a lack of communication to me - you are angry yet still you don't explain why.

Perhaps if you had said what it is that you find so awe inspiring about caro's portrait you could have helped people here to understand.

I see a cute girl - perhaps that is enough to warrant more views or comments ?

Without any explanation of something different what I see is : A photograph that is not particularly well taken technically with loss of detail in blown highlights,and a lack of detail in lost shadows/darker areas. There does not appear to be any attempt at the image telling us anything about the child or her way of life, neither has any attempt been made to shoot from an aesthetically pleasing angle or composition. It is a snap shot of a child from a standing position, towering over the child as she tried to sell souvenirs. Does that warrant our attention - if so please explain why.

Goodness... You do realise that the number of views and comments highly depends on how many people happen to be around when a photo is uploaded? Certain times of the day have more traffic than others.  Just because fifty-three people do not comment on a photo is not any indication that they do not care or that there is anything wrong with the photo.  It happens to me quite often. Sometimes I get a lot of views and comments right away, and sometimes it seems like everyone missed my photo entirely!

It's an online community, fluid and changing, with the wonderful possibility of sharing photos and receiving comments.  I've always found this community to be extremely supportive, despite the waxing and waning of activity levels.

Please forgive me but I find it kind of extreme to get "disgusted" and run away because not so many people looked at Caro's beautiful photo.  I'm sorry you feel bad about it, but ithese things do happen...and it really is not any indication that we do not care.

Respectfully,
Stefanie

I agree with Stefanie, you are totally blowing it out of proportion! I was getting an avg 25 to 35 comments on my posts and then I had to take a break to train for another job, now I get 5 to 10 comments. Part of my own lack of commenting has to do with the slowness of this site these days. And I have LAN..... I can imagine those that still have dial-up!!!!! I don't know about you, but I have a life outside RR! I am not retired.... I have to work and photography is not my business, it's my hobby! Maybe someday I could make some money at it, but I have to work a "REAL" job to pay my bills and so I am lucky if I can spend 15 min to an hour on this site! Even today, being my day off, I am sitting here defending myself to the likes of you when I should be doing laundry or better yet.... spending some time outside getting some photographs!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AUUUUGGGHHHH!!!!!
This is not the first time you've blasted this place............why do you stay????????
If you hate it here so much???????

Michel, it was a wonderful portrait, well worth of receiving many more comments. No doubt about that. But you know how the commenting goes about; it's been like this for so long, you know that... So I guess this was just 'one drop too many' in your bucket. But you have to consider... Most of the photography members are not professionals, not in photography, nor in any other artistic field... They're here for the fun, to enjoy, to find or do something interesting, to communicate with the community. This goes for 90% of the participants. Let's say that 10% is serious about photography, and as such really 'interested' in photography. Even those 10% are all different, have all different tastes, and aren't necessarily the biggest commenters. So 90% of the commenting has absolutely nothing to do with photography, or the quality of a photograph. That is not my opinion, it's a given fact... and it's inevitable with a community as large as Renderosity's. And that is both the blessing and the curse of this sort of community formula. Just depends how you see it... I sincerely hope that you are not feeling too bad about this. You have always been one of the most respected and highly regarded people here, and put a lot of serious effort in the community. If you're leaving, you will be missed, certainly by this ol' compatriot... But I'm sure we'll meet again... All the best to you in whatever you decide to do. See you, --Geert

Wow! You´re really upset aren´t you?

"It’s just a “club of friends”, chatting, playing games (participating to challenges, “show me” threads,…), commenting each other images, …"

Yes it is a club of friends. I for one think that is what a community should be. A bunch of friends "playing games" as you put it. Aren´t we suppose to have fun? I´m not getting paid for all the time i put into RR....i do it because it´s FUN. Heck...if i got paid...then i´d be a millionare by now. LOL. And sure there is alot of comment-trading going on around here. But that is something you yourself are guilty of as well as the ones you now you are slandering, and you know it. But now you´re disgusted by that behaviour?

Stefanie also mentioned one important thing to consider:

"You do realise that the number of views and comments highly depends on how many people happen to be around when a photo is uploaded? Certain times of the day have more traffic than others. "

That couldn´t be more important at the moment to remember. The gallery is moving in such an amazing pace at times that you simply don´t have time to view all images before they are bumped off the page even. And i should know...i spend hours each day looking and commenting.  That photo that your daughter uploaded.....even i missed it.....and i usually comment on all her work unless i´m on a break. Some call me a comment-whore...yes....but i can´t be a very successful one seeing how i still comment when i´m not allowing comments myself. :tt2: Hmm....come to think of it....if everyone felt as robbed of comments....then we´d all have to be "comment-whores" to supply all the demand wouldn´t we?

"For me, it means also that the time is coming to move to a different place, where people are really interested in photography, where so many good artists have moved and are…"

Good luck with that. When you find one....please let us know. You gotta remember....this isn´t a "Renderosity-related phenomena"....it´s called human nature. I´m a member at many different photo-sites and i can assure you....it´s the same mentality everwhere else. Photos that i have gotten 80 comments on here.....if they get 3 at those other sites....then i´m thrilled with joy. Usually i don´t get more than 1-2. But i still don´t bitch and moan about that. I think it´s good that you will look for another place to upload your photos to.....i think you will gain some perspective doing that and maybe then you can try to show some appricitation for the attention and encouragement you do get here.

Back to that photo....it is indeed an adorable photo of an adorable girl. But personally i still think the money takes the prize.....because monkeys are still more rare than little girls.

P.S Did you know that the average upload gets 8 comments?

GiMi53, you made several good points which I respect and I hope everybody takes note. I also know that you have been unhappy now for quite some time and it was evident in the forums as well as on certain of your uploads.

If I were as offended as you are I will even remove my gallery so nobody can ever offend me again.

This is real sad as I regard your work as good and your efforts to promote other artists as admirable.

Goodbye you will be missed.

yeah, he makes some valid points!

Andreas said: "Good luck with that. When you find one....please let us know. You gotta remember....this isn´t a "Renderosity-related phenomena"....it´s called human nature. I´m a member at many different photo-sites and i can assure you....it´s the same mentality everwhere else..."

So very true.  We each have a personal conception of what deserves comment but frankly cannot blame the community at large or scapegoat a "group of friends".  I do not depend on friends for comments, eventhough some do comment when they happen to see one of my uploads and I am grateful for their honest commentary and criticism.

The easiest way to gain more comments is to comment on the images of others. This is not a "trade comment for comment" as I see it. If simply happens that when a photographer or other artists comments on one of my images..and I am not familiar with that person, I will go to veiw their gallery.  I want to see the sort of work they do!  If then a comment is needed, it is given. If not, it is not.

I doubt anything anyone says here will change your thinking. I am not a bout to try to change a "decison already made and stated."

Please read Onslows comment and take a look.  That comment does have meaning.  Oh, why have I not commented on the shot you mention? I simply have not seen it during my limited gallery time..timing has a lot to do with it.          TomDart.

P>S>These sorts of threads bring out some good thought but overall are not constructive at all. imho

P>S> Edit to last paragraph on above post by TomDart:

Please read Onslows comment and take a look, very critically. Take it as you will.  I do now remember seeing the thumbnail but did not open it..other subjects were simply more interesting at the time. Then reread the comments the image did receive..those are not fluff.  We each have a pov here and each has that prerogative. 

Hi Everyone,
Sorry Gimi that you feel this community has failed you and your daughter. But from my own experience i remember i only received a couple of comments for a while as a new member.
Members tend to not comment on others work, only comment on their favourites, only comment when they receive a message that their added favourite has uploaded, some only comment around same time as they upload, some only comment on what the preceive as excellent photos, some comment  what they like to photograph.
What i am trying to say is that all members are different.  We all come into this community to show our creative side. What we get out of it depends on what we hope to achieve and also  what we put into it.
After reading what has been said i went and viewed your daughters image. As i havent been on much in the last week due to jaw infection and then son gave this pc 42 viruses. So i am truly sorry i missed her beautiful portrait. 
I love viewing young peoples work for they hold the future. Hope to see more of her images and watch her photos grow as she grows in experience. As i love your work.
Chris

5 comments and you complain... there are people out there who dont get much past 2 or 3 even if it is good.  One of my favourite shots in my gallery Into the Mist and possibly one of the most technically sound photos i think i have taken (tell me if i am wrong - i never studied photography) only got 5 comments and is currently on 28 views... why? - well people dont like "boring" shots - and that shot is, firstly, black and white and, secondly, of a very mundane subject matter.  You only need to see the number of views female model shots (nude or not) get in comparison to anything else to realise that if it hasnt got something to grab your attention out from the rest of the shots on the galleries then it wont get looked at.  Someone said to me once that if it hasnt got a "wow" factor then it wont get looked at.  Personally i only look at shots which interest me in both style and what i consider quality and generally only comment if i think i can bring something useful into the message and wont look at something i dont like. Also, sometimes you can assume through a lot of views and hardly any comments that "no news is good news".

Anyway - good luck finding somewhere to get honest critique, but that only comes through individuals and not a whole site.  Just a few points to expand on what was said above and my two pence...

Sad to see such a good photographer leave, but such is life.  Thanks for leaving your gallery up.

Almost forgotten in all of this is Caro...is she pleased with her photograph? Is she pleased with her improvement in photography? Is she pleased to read the comments received, regardless of how many?   I see that as the important item missing in all of this and that is strickly her business.

I should not post anymore to this thread.      TomDart.

My only obsevation in all of this is that,for the most part, the gallery serves as a place to display your art. The oohs and ahhs are icing on the cake and encouraging to be sure. If a person wants a piece critiqued then the forum is a good place to post it. I think many are reluctant to be critical in the galleries but would be more than happy to assist, if asked, in the forum.

Being a total amateur I'm reluctant to comment unless the piece strikes me "just so". Not saying anything doesn't mean I didn't like it...I just didn't know what to say. On the other hand, I don't know enough to be critical of anothers work so I try not to put my foot in my mouth.

This "newby" will sit down now.

C'est comme çà que tu dis au revoir toi maintenant... grand' influence...

Je tiens à te rappeler un petit détail, en parlant de commentaires: tu te rappeles mon post avec seulement une feuille morte? et que tu as mis un links directement en commentaire? J'ai reçu un grand nombre de message qui me conseille de demander d'effacer ceci....

Pour le forum: "It’s just a “club of friends”, chatting, playing games (participating to challenges, “show me” threads,…), commenting each other images..."Quel est le problème? Si tu participes jamais... Pourpuoi tu critiques maintenant, parce que il n'y a pas la bonne tête de turc ?

Pour les commentaires : chacun est maitre de mettre des commentaires ou non comme chacun est maitre de voir ou non un post...

J'espère que dans l'autre tu auras vraiment ta place...

au revoir

Michel...I too,am a proud parent.I have a daughter who posts here,too...albeit infrequently...but neither of us is either dismayed nor disappointed by a lack of viewings and/or comments on her work.She knows,as well as anyone else here should,that one shouldn't expect anything by simply posting.

She rarely comments herself...not even on mine...but she has the good sense to know that by not doing so,she should be happy with the comments she gets.That's the reality,whatever you think of it.Viewings are a different thing ,altogether.That,I think Stefanie addressed quite well.

All in all,I must admit,I'm surprised that someone like you, who has long been a part of the RR community, is acting as if you don't understand how it works at these sites.You confuse me,Michel.You act like you very much want to be a part of the 'community' here and yet you also choose to show your  disdain...and repeatedly so.

I think,if you or your daughter are unhappy,you should seek greener pastures.It's that simple.As for me,I have looked at the alternatives,and for the moment,I get exactly what I expect and need from RR....and that's all I  or anyone else...can ask for.

Good luck to you both.

Sincerely,

Y'know, I've been in and out of here for the last 6 years.... nothing is different now to what it was then regarding viewing habits.  Tits for Hits being my main cry over the whole period.

So, bearing that in mind, do you (as individuals, not aimed directly at Gimi or anyone) want to post your images for your own satisfaction and the veiwing of a small group of people who respect your work and you as an artist?  Or do you just want hits and comments?  If it's the latter, then take risque photo's, a bare nipple or two (or three depending on planet of origin) and watch them roll in.  We all have the choice and opportunity to do that, it's up to us to be individuals and decide if that's the path we want to follow.

Me?  I still have a photo (under my original name) on the first page of the most viewed, purely from following this formula.  Does it mean anything to me? Nope.  When I post I seem to have a small group of people who always comment, and I appreciate them.  My girl finds the same.  I haven't formed a little 'club' or anything, but this small group is seeing my work develop.  That is my satisfaction.... at the end of the say I do the pictures for me, no-one else.  If people choose to look at them, nice.  If they comment, bonus.  But if people stop viewing will I stop posting? nope....

As for the photo itself, I have to be honest and say I wouldn't have gone past the thumb.  Child pictures are 10-a-penny imo, and let's face it, children are everywhere and not exactly difficult to catch in either poignant or funny poses, and there's nothing in the pic to make the child's situation interesting.... if she had, for example, been working in a cotton field and therefore in a situation that most of us wouldn't come across normally, then it may have drawn my attention.  But to get this picture you would simply need to say "hey, child" and they would look up like this.  I'm not trying to be critical to be nasty, sorry if it seems that way - this is simply my take on the subject matter, which (like a lot of people, I'm afraid) isn't enthralling to me.

I honestly wish you well in finding a gallery where human nature is so different - your only problem is that when you find it there'll be so few members that your viewings and comments will probably be less than here........ ;-)

Take care, and keep up the (overall) good pictures!

(",)

Michel you said it all ... and that is more than enough !
You'll find

salute
Carlos Giraldez.

Oh dear lets hope it was not PG you were going too -  that can't be a very good site most of their members seem to spend their time here trying to recruit someone to go and join them.

Perhaps that is what you mean about not having a circle of friends to view your images  

:lol: onslow... You make me laugh hahahah....excellent !!!

Ah yes the old fight starts again.

I'm just glad and proud that I can say I generally search the whole gallery - commenting on the work and not the photographers. Yes I have my friends but I never stop and alway take time to find new "talent" or to share "help" to EVERYONE.

Gonna miss you GiMi53!!! You know I loved your work!

Quote - Michel you said it all ... and that is more than enough !
.

LMAO!

Well, if you want to join a 117-member web site (filled with an unholy mix of banned or otherwise sad Renderosity has-beens) where you can't post many photos (invitation only is the official excuse) due to a limited amount of disk space and/or bandwidth on their $7.95 per month hosting plan, but ARE encouraged to bash Renderosity in any manner you choose, then that is the place to go.  The new David Koresh and his Branch Davidian followers will welcome you with open arms.  A sad life, really, but if that's what you're finally reduced to then that's the place to be.  They're sheep of a different color if that's what you're looking for. 

(watch this post end up over there, compiled by Star Reporter Tedz)

bruce?

Folks, let try to keep this thread on track and not make any personal attacks on current or former Renderosity member or other sites, okay? Michel, while there is some validity to some of the statements you made, others have made the good point that this is not only a Renderosity related phenomenon. I have joing other "photo only" websites and posted some of what consider my best work. I was lucky to get a comment or three. I'm sure if I had hung out longer,made friends there and commented on other's work, I would have started getting more. But it just showed me that web galleries are similar everywhere and no one is that much greater than the other. New memeber take time to become a part of any online community and be recognized. Let's face it, we live in a busy world and most people don't have time to browse the galleries and comment on every 'deserving' image. We find artists who's work consistently impressed and inspires us and we return to them because we know it will be worth our time. I try to browse when I can and give as many images their just due as I can, but it is hard. Even visiting our favorite artists is not always possible. I consider you one of those inspiring artists and hope that you reconcile your mixed feelings about Renderosity and continue to share your art with us.

ben voilà Michel, je crois que tu t'es fais de bons amis, la vie est belle!!!

You just uploaded Michel? Hmmm...i thought the point of your thread was that we all disgust you and you wanted to leave RR. How you said that the great majority of this community wasn´t even interested in photography? Still you want our opinion? Or how does this work now? Can anyone comment or only your friends...because didn´t you establish that´s what goes on around here? Yeah...me sooo confused. 

excellent question :biggrin:

I apologize to the forum.  I'm sure there are more than a few good people at PG, but I also know what goes on there with many of the members; all you have to do is pop in and read its forum.  Even PoserPros never stooped to that level...well, not as low.

It seems like we see more and more of this type of thread here in this forum and others, with all sorts of reasons.  Some personal, some angry at Renderosity, whatever.  But when a member pops in and claims disgust with fellow members because they didn't flock to his daughter's upload to rave about it, it absolutely pisses me off as a slap in the face of those members who HAVE taken the time to comment on his work in the past, as well as his daughter's.  I agree with the consensus here; good luck finding it different anywhere else.

And, admittedly, when someone posted that link to PG, I flew off the handle.  No, I shouldn't condemn an entire site because of a few rotten apples.

Again, my apologies, as some members here may also be members there.

Steve

I'll add my two cents worth here..

I did see the image that was mentioned at the beginning..I thought it was a good photo.

From my personal perspective, I don't have the time to comment on as many images as I would like to. On any given day there are (on average) around 10 pages of images uploaded here. When I go thru the gallery, I don't have the time to comment on every image.

With that being said...beauty is in the eye of the beholder..My personal "most viewed image" is something that I considered a failure..But obviously, everyone else didn't..

I've posted image that I loved..only to get a few comments.

Renderosity is a HUGE Community, it has it's advantages and it's downfalls.

"It is what it is"

GiMi53,

If you decide to leave, I would respect your decision, yet I would miss your work.

In the grand scheme of things..this community has been through a lot in recent history. The staff we have now is working hard to restore the sense of community this forum once had. I feel that we are moving in a positive direction. The forum is once again active with good threads about Photography and related topics. people seem to be enjoying themselves.

As to other sites...Every site on the web is to some degree a "club of friends" 

In closing, I hope everyone can draw something positive from a thread like this. Some very good points have been made, and perhaps we can all learn something from this..

Peace,

Bruce

Thank you for that Steve, it is appreciated. And Andreas, he was not talking about his work, rather his daughters and other that in his opion should be getting more attention than they are. Edit: And Bruce, we cross-posted. Very good thoughts from you as well.

I am pleased to see reason come into play here.  Thanks for the cognizant posts.  Yes, this ticked me at first, having grown weary of such.  Glad to see reason and honest emotional reaction combined in these thoughts.     Tom.

perhaps not too late to give my view:

I said frankly in my profile that I've hardly time to comment on other pictures (sometimes even no time to browse through the postings of my "favourites") - the more grateful I am to those commenting on my few postings.

Of course there is the discrepancy between hits and comments for portraits vs. nudes - but actually if I'm interested in valuable comments (as there are) and not only applause that's still good (and here at R'sity far better than in other communities I saw)

with emphasis on actual work and avoiding redundancy with my personal site I found it then consequent to keep my gallery as small as possible here - and that seems to work

so if someone feels hurt by "normal" behavior in such a community as RR I found it more consequent to stay present (perhaps with only a small glimpse) than to leave a big gallery and quit...

After the duck's pond, it seems we have now a piranha's one.

What a mess ! and what happened to this "community" !

As Pushinfaders said "this community has been through a lot in recent history. The staff we have now is working hard to restore the sense of community this forum once had" Hope they will succed to do something.

Most of the old ones have been pushed away and the new one can't insert. Why ?

I think that first RR is very slow now (much slower than months ago) and personnal ambitions of some members is to monopolize the getting scarsed comments  and flattery seems to be the best way to get them (no matter if the photography is good or not) and it becomes an inner circle of self congratulation. It has always been of course but it's now a caricature here. Sometime revolting or simply ridiculous.

It's unfair to say it's the same in other photography site. I'm now in a French community and in the community of "the 117 otherwise sad has-been members" and I can assure you that if nothing is perfect, you don't feel the hate between members as you feel it here.

@terra Dreamer: I'm not against paying something to be free in a gallery. Here I think  you can have this free gallery because people like me buy a lot of Poser's stuffs (dont forget we are in a merchant site).

Have a good day

No regrets to have left but hope to come back a day in a more serene and objective place.

Time to move on..let's get back to talking about Photography, rather than bashing individuals and websites......