Modern UI.

Something tells me I'm going to be disappointed on this one.  If they'd redone the UI as they should've, wouldn't the marketing people be bragging?

Check out "Reason #5" video at the website - same interface.

http://www.e-frontier.com/go/poser_7#

That sucks.  Thanks for confirming teh suck.

:(

Why are they adding a turbocharger when the tires are bald and flat?

Quote - Why are they adding a turbocharger when the tires are bald and flat?

Probably cos a lot of people get a comfortable ride from the tyres they are currently using... even if a little deflated.

Personally... I hate when a program I have used for years suddenly changes a UI layout that I have become comfortable with.

However, I agree that the UI could do with a few changes... from the point of view of being a little more customisable (if there is such a word)

I wouldn't say bald and flat....

Actually, I'd use a different analogy...had they changed the UI without changing the (much) needed things that they have changed. 

It would be like putting $150.00 rims on a Plymouth Duster. 

But, that's just my opinion :lol:

When it comes to things like the UI: you'll get about as many different opinions over what's to be done as you have users.

I agree with ziggie.  The key would be to make it so that individual users could easily customize their own UI.  There'd be limits to how far such an idea could be taken, of course -- but just making it simple to change the default UI color scheme would be a start.

A lot of people have their own particular "Reason 8" -- but I give ef total credit for what they've done.  I think that P7 is going to be a watershed for Poser.

Actually, the Poser interface is a lot more customizable than you think.  In the thread where people were guessing at what reason 7 would be, this topic came up.

I'm at work, so I can't look at it right now, but you can change your disply colours and all the icons exsist as (pngs, jpgs, bmps, I can't remember), but the point is if you don't like the icons, you could even take them into an image editting sofware and change them and then either place them in the same place witht he same name (backing up the old ones, just incase) or you could go into the xml file (again, not infront of my computer and can't remember which file off the top) and change where it is pointing to for the icons.

Set up you pose room as you like (ie: delete figure, set up two white lights, move aroudn you icons) and then in your prefences tell it to save current state.

If you are so inclined, you can even change what picture is displayed while booting up.

It is extremely customizable, you just ahve to look around a bit.

Cheers.

Attached Link: http://www.thewheelconnection.com/php/showwheel.php?name=Flame&brand=Absolute&brandsearch=1

I'd put these (see link) on that Duster.

However, the last Duster I came into physical contact with....had the word "Ouch" in duct tape covering a dent :lol:  Before that...was one an old boyfriend had....his friends painted over his paint job with house paint as a practical joke :lol:

ok, sorry for derailing :lol:

I don't mind the interface of poser.  I think it's a lot more user friendly than D|S...

*"I don't mind the interface of poser.  I think it's a lot more user friendly than D|S..."

*I agree.

I can't figure out the D/S UI but I sure miss the Poser 2 GUI. I would wish that interfaces were about being "transparent" and conserving screen space not about "branding" or hipsterism. There is something to say for the fact that aside from Poser I can run people through everything they need to do in most Windows programs over the phone without having a computer open.... last week I successfully ran some one through Power Point over the phone even though I had never used the program.... the GUI is standard enough that I "found" everything on the first or second try sight unseen.

I wish there was a simpler Photoshop type interface for Poser that used tabbed palletes more effectivly and had no "artistic" design to it. I run my PCs with the Win98 theme... and I wish I could find a Lynx browser for my OS. In my experience (as a user and a graphic and GUI designer) design tends to be about the designer not the user and a company will stick to an aweful UI for the sake of brand identity-- but then people use Photoshop and its design doesn't "assert itself" at all.

If anyone ever sells a replacement for the Poser GUI and "libraries" interface I will be first in line to buy.

Quote - Actually, the Poser interface is a lot more customizable than you think.

Oh, I'm well aware of the fact that the interface is customizable -- to an extent.  However: the customization isn't accomplished at the simple click of a button.  Making the process simple (i.e. - designed into the program) would help considerably.

Touche!

For me it is not a question of ugly icons. Some of the menus are very unfriendly. I'd like to be able to put 4 buttons on the desktop (like memory dots) that switch IK on and off.

The mirror commands ask you if you want to copy joint params EACH TIME you use them. I wish they had at least 2 separate mirror commands: copy with joint params and without.
In several cases the UI seems designed to slow you down.

In Silo you can set up everything. I stuck to the common setting of alt-left mouse to rotate, and alt-middle mouse to move the camera. The scroll wheel zooms.

Now in P6 there are only a couple of right click menus and there is no use of the scroll wheel.

alt-left mouse actually turns the cursor into a camera and rotates it! Did you know that? I found this by accident. Unfortunately it does not keep the horizon level, so I am back to using the bowling ball.

There is also a DAZ style rotation tool, but I rarely use it. Just habit.

I agree with PapaBlueMarlin and beryld.   That was the first thing that turned me off on D/S.  That and the fact that it crashed a lot.  And you can customize it to some degree.   I have a number of the controls relocated and the editing tools are postioned in a column on my workspace.    

Quote - Now in P6 there are only a couple of right click menus and there is no use of the scroll wheel.

I can scroll-wheel through the library.

Quote - > Quote - Now in P6 there are only a couple of right click menus and there is no use of the scroll wheel.

I can scroll-wheel through the library.

Sorry. You are quite right.

However the scroll wheel is only a halfhearted addition, like the one little context menu. You could have used it for zooming or to do a "twist" when in "bend" mode, not just to scroll the menus.

Let's face it. When P7 comes out, regardless of what it can do,  people will still be churning endless V3 (V4) semi-nudes in seductive poses, with nothing to say other than "Look at the pretty picture I made". The program is not the problem here, neither is tallent, just imagination.

Well you see this in pretty much all apps/styles of CG, nude and semi nude females are the number one choice of subject for the largely male userbase. Forgive us, we cant help loving renders of nekkid women in seductive poses... ;)

Also i feel its not imagination thats lacking but time and resources. Mastering even one area of 3D takes a huge amount of effort, and for a decent looking scene you have to master multiple areas as well as art theory. ie for the average person who just wants to use poser for fun, it becomes quite a long and hard journey to get to that kind of level. So what are they supposed to do in the meantime ? I suppose they could wait till they get good enough and then start posting work, but IMO its much more interesting to see the progress of an artist as they improve and change. Sure along the way there will be plenty of boob infested pics, but that's all part of the fun no ?

Quote - Let's face it. When P7 comes out, regardless of what it can do,  people will still be churning endless V3 (V4) semi-nudes in seductive poses, with nothing to say other than "Look at the pretty picture I made". The program is not the problem here, neither is tallent, just imagination.

Perhap the user is moved to create this type of render. I don't see it as lack of imagination on the users part, but lack of insight on the viewers part.

As for the orignal post, It took me awhile to get used to the UI, but it works fine for me and like some others, would hate to have to learn a new one. That is what turned me off to hexagon. I am used to 3DSmax and the interface in hexagon, was confusing at best.

Quote - *"I don't mind the interface of poser.  I think it's a lot more user friendly than D|S..."

*I agree.

Yep, agree as well.

Quote - There is also a DAZ style rotation tool, but I rarely use it. Just habit.

That's not quite right: acutally there is a P5 style rotation tool in D|S since P5 got it already before D|S was even released :P

I used to think Poser was hard to figure, until I saw Blender..;)
I used to be disgusted, but now I try to be amused..;)

I agree with Tekmonk's assessment of the abundance of nudes.  Heck, a lot a newbies can't afford or justify buying clothing for their characters! lol.

As far as the UI, I do have to admit that it did take no time to learn the basics.  It really is user friendly in many ways.  I love 3D Studio Max, but it took me years of playing to learn it's interface.  Carrara make me feel like I'm playing the piano with mittens on!  I've used a dozen or so 3D apps inmy time and Poser was really the quickest and easiest to learn.

Now, that said, I can see the idea and appeal behind going to something a bit more like Photoshop, docking might be a nice feature, but I would probably letterbomb e-frontier if the UI was completely different.  Actually, opposed to being something I wanted as an upgrade, this was one of the things I feared!  I don't think I'm alone in that sentiment.

Quote - I'd like to be able to put 4 buttons on the desktop (like memory dots) that switch IK on and off.

Xen--  You can do that already, if you're willing to use up 4 of your 9 pose dots... which I for one am willing to do given how much animating I do.  If you want the pose dot code, let me know and I'll post it.  I'd do it now but I'm not on my Poser PC.

FYI, my 9 pose dots are:

1 = zero figure
2 = zero expression
3 = eyes point at main camera focus prop
4 = [temporary spare]
5 = turn on arms IK
6 = turn off arms IK
7 = special legs zero pose which works better for IK
8 = turn on legs IK
9 = turn off legs IK

I'd love to have more dots, though...maybe Poser 8

Quote - > Quote - I'd like to be able to put 4 buttons on the desktop (like memory dots) that switch IK on and off.

Xen--  You can do that already, if you're willing to use up 4 of your 9 pose dots... which I for one am willing to do given how much animating I do.  If you want the pose dot code, let me know and I'll post it.  I'd do it now but I'm not on my Poser PC.

YES PLEASE

Wow, Tguyus, I'd love to see that pose dot code. I had no idea you could do this with pose dots. With this mod I might actually use them for something.
UI dots are the ones I use most. Sometimes they break on me though.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I'd like to be able to put 4 buttons on the desktop (like memory dots) that switch IK on and off.

Xen--  You can do that already, if you're willing to use up 4 of your 9 pose dots... which I for one am willing to do given how much animating I do.  If you want the pose dot code, let me know and I'll post it.  I'd do it now but I'm not on my Poser PC.

YES PLEASE

Okey-dokey... here you go:

_________________________code starts below
{

version
.{
.number 6
.}

figure
{
.inkyChain     LeftLeg 
..{
..on
..}
.inkyChain     RightLeg 
..{
..on
..}
}
_________________________code stops above

Just open one of your existing pose dot pz2 files located in the dots subdirectory (or make any old one and save it to get the dot pose file created) in a text editor and then paste in the above code, and replace the periods with tabs. 

This code turns on leg IK.  To make an IK off version, just copy it into another dot pz2 and change "on" to "off" where it appears below the inkychain line. 

To make arms versions, just change "LeftLeg" to "LeftHand" etc

This works on my Victoria and other Millenium characters.  If the relevant inkychain body parts are named something else, you'll have to use the appropriate substitute names.

Credit for this idea must go to Little Dragon or lesbentley or maclean or one of the other exalted wisemen.  I can't remember which of those three came up with this a few years ago, but I'm pretty sure it was one of them.

happy dotting...

Tak! I wish I had thought of this.

It is a bit like the MAT pose thing from a few years ago. Poser lives a lot on user innovation.

Quote - Wow, Tguyus, I'd love to see that pose dot code. I had no idea you could do this with pose dots. With this mod I might actually use them for something.
UI dots are the ones I use most. Sometimes they break on me though.

I use the UI dots all the time too.  Besides the default square work space, I have separate UI dots which change the window size to 640x480 or 1280x720, depending on what size video I'm using for a given animation.  It helps speed and simplify matters when framing the animation and configuring the "make movie" process.

I also have matching dots in the camera group which give me a default, full body, straight-on main camera view which is scaled to each of the different movie format window sizes. 

Dots just make life easier.

Quote - Actually, the Poser interface is a lot more customizable than you think.  In the thread where people were guessing at what reason 7 would be, this topic came up.

...all the icons exsist as (pngs, jpgs, bmps, I can't remember),

psd... that is adobe photoshop files.
unfortunalty i have not had any success changing anything. I only have Paintshop Pro which will open and save psd but apparently doens't do something right so Poser will refuse to open if i have edited the files.

Quote - It is extremely customizable, you just ahve to look around a bit.

and if you have the right tools and can understand the xml.

I have trouble resizing the windows.  I would think no one would complain if they were easier to resize. 

It would also be nice if the controls that are ordinarily under the main pose window were moved up to buttons on a button bar.  But of course this is just my opinion.  I suppose some people love to have the controls under the pose window.  To each thier own.

These are just some wishes for future versions not a big deal.   You certainly won't hear me complaining abotu p7 if they implement all these promised features in a stable program. 

So do you want a modern UI like 3dmax`s windows 95 style UI?

OK call me a silly duck (quack) but where did you come up with the source code for the buttons, I know you didn't decide, hmmm I wonder if I put a bracket here, and a couple of periods there, what it would do.  Is there an article somewhere that will give us clueless birds a clue?  As far as screen realestate goes, if you can run dual monitors, undock all of your menus and move them to the other monitor and leave your primary monitor for the dsign window.  I guess it all depends on (insert commercial Viking voice) "What's it your wallet?"  Someday after I finish my computer room, I am going to take my baby up to her full potential with 4 monitors, yea baby!

Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with his expertise

Hey, defend the indefensible all you want, no skin off my nose.

No, sorry, having all those finger joints in the menu is not a matter of taste.  It sucks.  Period.

No, sorry, having to go all the way to the top bar to lock a body part is not a matter of taste.  It sucks, period.  Not having a way to quickly lock multiple body parts sucks too.  How hard would it be to make a tool or a menu or a window where the user could quickly toggle parts locked and unlocked?

Most of that goes for visibility too.

No, sorry, having those stupid color dots on the main pane where it's easy to inadvertantly change colors is not a matter of taste.  It sucks, period.

No, sorry, not having a way to scale a hand and all fingers simultaneously is not a matter of taste, it sucks, period.

Having all that wasted space on the borders of the main window pane, space that could hold any number of buttons or drop-downs, is not a matter of taste.  It sucks, period.

Having to go through the same process of closing figure hierarchies each time you want to set a figure or prop parent isn't a matter of taste.  it sucks, period.  It sucks even more that I can't scroll those hierarchy windows with the mousewheel.

Having right-clicking on an object or part in a scene do nothing is not a matter of taste.  It sucks, period.

I can go on for a while like this.

The mirror commands ask you if you want to copy joint params EACH TIME you use them. I wish they had at least 2 separate mirror commands: copy with joint params and without.
In several cases the UI seems designed to slow you down.

Yeah.  How much time would they have saved all their users by adding something in preferences we can check to select our defaults and decide whether we want to be asked the same questions over and over in these dialogs?

Let's face it. When P7 comes out, regardless of what it can do,  people will still be churning endless V3 (V4) semi-nudes in seductive poses, with nothing to say other than "Look at the pretty picture I made". The program is not the problem here, neither is tallent, just imagination.

What irrelevant nonsense.

As for the orignal post, It took me awhile to get used to the UI, but it works fine for me and like some others, would hate to have to learn a new one. That is what turned me off to hexagon. I am used to 3DSmax and the interface in hexagon, was confusing at best.

I'm not after change for its own sake, I'm after LOTS of SIMPLE improvements.  I guess my OP didn't really say that...

Hey, defend the indefensible all you want, no skin off my nose.

No, sorry, having all those finger joints in the menu is not a matter of taste.  It sucks.  Period.

No, sorry, having to go all the way to the top bar to lock a body part is not a matter of taste.  It sucks, period.  Not having a way to quickly lock multiple body parts sucks too.  How hard would it be to make a tool or a menu or a window where the user could quickly toggle parts locked and unlocked?

Most of that goes for visibility too.

No, sorry, having those stupid color dots on the main pane where it's easy to inadvertantly change colors is not a matter of taste.  It sucks, period.

No, sorry, not having a way to scale a hand and all fingers simultaneously is not a matter of taste, it sucks, period.

Having all that wasted space on the borders of the main window pane, space that could hold any number of buttons or drop-downs, is not a matter of taste.  It sucks, period.

Having to go through the same process of closing figure hierarchies each time you want to set a figure or prop parent isn't a matter of taste.  it sucks, period.  It sucks even more that I can't scroll those hierarchy windows with the mousewheel.

Having right-clicking on an object or part in a scene do nothing is not a matter of taste.  It sucks, period.

I can go on for a while like this.

The mirror commands ask you if you want to copy joint params EACH TIME you use them. I wish they had at least 2 separate mirror commands: copy with joint params and without.
In several cases the UI seems designed to slow you down.

Yeah.  How much time would they have saved all their users by adding something in preferences we can check to select our defaults and decide whether we want to be asked the same questions over and over in these dialogs? (though I guess my preference would be just one save dialog box with checkboxes for all the questions)

Let's face it. When P7 comes out, regardless of what it can do,  people will still be churning endless V3 (V4) semi-nudes in seductive poses, with nothing to say other than "Look at the pretty picture I made". The program is not the problem here, neither is tallent, just imagination.

What irrelevant nonsense.

As for the orignal post, It took me awhile to get used to the UI, but it works fine for me and like some others, would hate to have to learn a new one. That is what turned me off to hexagon. I am used to 3DSmax and the interface in hexagon, was confusing at best.

I'm not after change for its own sake, I'm after LOTS of SIMPLE improvements.  I guess my OP didn't really say that...

The problem is that improvements for you would not necesseraly be improvements for others, for example, the daz studio interface is quite different from poser but I still find it quite awkward to use.

A solution would be an interface like you want and the option to use a standard poser interface built into the program, so that everyone would be happy.

Quote - so that everyone would be happy.

:huh::laugh:

Not in this lifetime.

I'm not making fun of what you've said here -- because you make an excellent point in your post.

One can argue -- as has been done above -- that certain aspects of the Poser UI aren't to your....uh.....taste.  But as others have hinted at in this thread -- it's neither a simple nor an easy matter to radically alter a well-known program's UI in one fell swoop.  If the changes are spread out over several versions, then the customer base would likely be OK about it.  But a sudden, total alteration of the UI flipped over in one version would be quite likely to antagonize far more users than it would ever please.  Even if the shiny-new interface were to be perfect (however one's...uh....taste.....chooses to define the word "perfect" in this context) -- many -- perhaps most -- of the fans would be furious over suddenly having their well-worn & comfortable shoes snatched away from them.  Even if those old, comfortable shoes have holes in the soles & worn-out heels.

New Coke, anyone?

Nope -- big changes to the UI are best done in stages.  I think that the good folks at ef know this fact better than we do.

My point was that they could make a totally new interface and have the standard poser interface as well and you could set, in the preferences, which one you want to use.
It wouldn`t really be too difficult to do.

shrug  Not necessarily a bad idea.  You can suggest it to ef..........but I'd tend to suspect that doing so would be just a little more complicated than not doing it.  The law of diminishing returns, and all of that.

I've just never seen a huge protest going on over the UI.  Over other matters -- yes.  But not over the UI.  I've only seen a few comments here and there on the topic.  Not that such an observation constitutes a scientific survey -- but the UI has just never been the type of forum hot-button issue that other things have been (and are).

I like the poser UI and I would probably use it if they did make two interfaces.

Quote - Actually, the Poser interface is a lot more customizable than you think.  In the thread where people were guessing at what reason 7 would be, this topic came up.

I'm at work, so I can't look at it right now, but you can change your disply colours and all the icons exsist as (pngs, jpgs, bmps, I can't remember), but the point is if you don't like the icons, you could even take them into an image editting sofware and change them and then either place them in the same place witht he same name (backing up the old ones, just incase) or you could go into the xml file (again, not infront of my computer and can't remember which file off the top) and change where it is pointing to for the icons.

Having to hand-edit XML files to adjust the UI sucks. I can set up Windows to give me consistent choices of colours and font sizes, chosen to suit my tired old eyes. Poser ignores these choices. While I would be concerned at changes to the symbols I have become used to, and some of the tools have to be outside the standard, office-oriented, paradigm of the Windows UI, Poser doesn't have the adjustments that were available in text-mode MS-DOS programs written to run on an IBM XT. This is the 21st Century, when everything changes. And you've got to be ready for it.

Quote - Okey-dokey... here you go:
[....]
happy dotting...

That is very cool and handy, thanks for posting it.

The problem is that improvements for you would not necesseraly be improvements for others, for example, the daz studio interface is quite different from poser but I still find it quite awkward to use.

Please point out which of my examples would not be an improvement, and for whom this would be the case.

There's something to be said for taste, but there's a limit to the argument and Poser is way beyond that limit.  No, sorry, there's no argument to be made for putting all those finger joints in the list, or having right-click do nothing, or having the top border of the scene pane take up almost an inch of screen space, 90% of which is empty and serves no purpose.

watching someone make a list of ideas for improving the interface and posting it to a forum instead of sending it to E-f where they might actually read it is not a matter of taste,. It sucks, period.  :-P

some of those ideas sound similar to ideas i have sent in. If they hear it over and over, they might just listen. It has happened before.

As for the suggested user interface improvements, I've sent in lists not unlike JQP's. To e-frontier. For P6, and for P7.
What I would like best is a highly customizable interface. So would many others, it seems. e-frontier knows. 
What I would like best are controls that conform to the OS standard styles, as far as possible. So would many others. e-frontier knows.
Until now, e-frontier has NOT listened. We all know.

JQP I could do without most of the improvements you mentioned, the hierarchy editor ones are ok but the rest I don`t need.

The scaling a whole hand thing can be done if the cr2 has propagating scale in the hand, it is not a UI thing.

watching someone make a list of ideas for improving the interface and posting it to a forum instead of sending it to E-f where they might actually read it is not a matter of taste,. It sucks, period.  :-P

...and your whole point hinges on the word instead.

;)

SVDL, yes, it's pretty obvious that they know their UI sucks ass.  (btw your spawncharacter script kicks ass)

JQP I could do without most of the improvements you mentioned, the hierarchy editor ones are ok but the rest I don`t need.

I'll bet you could do without a computer too.

What's wrong is cranky things like the library interface. Admittedly, it's much better than it was, but it's still creaky to display and navigate; particularly the difficulty in switching from one runtime to another, or the awkward handling of large folders.

Yeah, the library's just bad.  I've been using Advanced Poser Library and that helps a lot.  One thing that using APL has made me wish for is a way to select which figure a pose or other entry is being applied to (sucks having to switch to APL, choose a pose, switch to Poser, change selection, switch to APL, choose a pose, switch back to Poser - still a lot better than without APL of course).  Other than laziness I don't know why ef wouldn't have looked at APL and said "ah!  why didn't we think of that?  let's implement it immediately!".

You know you're lazy when a FREE aftermarket addition is totally owning you on your own software (if P7 comes out without a new library, how many editions will that be that APL has owned ef, I wonder?).

I just looked at Advanced Poser Library (hadn't really heard of it before) and I would HATE it if the Poser library was like that.