I think I've got the UV mapping thing down now, and I got a good workable map generated for the gown and bodice.  I "may" still model and map a real bodice for the gown .... I'm thinking about using Phil C's clothing generation software.  Does anyone have any experience with that??  Is it worth the money?

Anyway, comments are welcome, also suggestions for other outfits, colors, textures.  And, Vilian, you are welcome to create additional textures based on the maps when I send them to you, if you like.

I splurged and bought the whole suite, although I don't know how to use a lot of it yet at this point.  In my pretty uninformed opinion, the main thing PhilC's stuff has going for it is that it all works entirely within Poser and requires no third-party tools.  From the above, you're obviously pretty comfortable with modeling your own clothes; I'd expect that you could achieve the same results, but PhilC still has some pretty cool tricks up his sleeves and you might find that his tools can save you some time.  The Scissors tool is really pretty clean, works very simply and dramatically extends the usefulness of a lot of the built-in clothes.  Wardrobe Wizard is also particularly spiffy, and may save you a great deal of time in converting clothing from one character to another.  

PhilC himself frequents these forums (which of course you already know, I'm sure) and you might get a reply from him here; he is also pretty responsive to email if you have a genuine feature question.

The gown itself looks very cute, although I might suggest making the bell a bit less regular and cup-like.  The fluting of the cloth looks great.  Might want to settle the tutu down a bit on the main bell of the lower gown.  Very cute, I'd bet it looks great with little mouse ballet slippers ;)

I was going for a hoop skirt sort of thing (sort of a Civil War era thing), so I may leave the bell as it is, however, I definitely see your point about resting the upper tutu down on the bell.  I will work on that this weekend.

This is actually my first week working in 3D modeling.  I purchased Rhino ages ago, but just never had the time to play with it.  All I had done before was build Bryce primitive structures.  However, the more I work on the few things I've started, the more I am enjoying it.

I have textured a set of slippers to match, although beats me if they'll ever be seen.  :)

Hoop skirts are great and all, just think about the way you have the fluting of the cloth on the bell nicely defined - seems to me something would need to support those folds to hold them out from the rest of the cloth.  If you've got a series of hoops pushing the dress out, the folds will tend to lay a lot closer against the hoops (I'm certainly no expert and I don't presume to tell you things you might already know, but ...):

http://www.farthingales.on.ca/simplicity_9764.php

With that dress I would leave out leg bones if you are rigging it.

Quote - I have textured a set of slippers to match, although beats me if they'll ever be seen.  :)

You get to see the slippers at the stroke of midnight... boing... and she turns back into being an everyday scullery mouse maid... Mouserella...

or...

behind the bike sheds after the High School Prom...

That's a beautiful looking ballgown!  It is great that you are finally modeling in Rhino and doing such a superb job in such a short time.

pjz ..... I see your point.  You are right, of course.

Back to the drawing board ...quite litterally.

Thanks, UVDan.  I still have a long way to go (which after a week should be true of 99% of the population).

I wish sometimes I wasn't such a trial and error type.  It would save me time.  Lots of time.

I suppose I should download some ballgown models and study their profiles ... or at least some 2D photos.

I was thinking of doing a gown with a farthingale.  That would support the upper part of the gown, so the tutu would still stick out, but then the gown would drape straight from there down, and I'm not certain those gowns fold ... and I would like to have folds.

(more mumbling .... wanders off)

oh and PS, pjz ... thanks for the link to the hoop skirt pattern and pix.

Much appreciated.

You know, I wonder what you would get if you took just the mesh for bell of the gown, took it into Poser, clothified it, and simmed it a little bit over a sphere or rounded cone in the shape of the bell you want, with the Fold Resistance set pretty high.  Might save you a good bit of manual tooling.  I'm really curious to know what you come up with if you should try this.

Hmmm ... well, I couldn't find out how or if you can create primitives directly in Poser, so I just created one in Rhino and brought it in.

I clothified the ball gown and set to to collide against the sphere, and the simulation has been running for quite a while.  I'll let you know if it does anything.

Will I be able to save the draped ball gown as a separate mesh??

However, I now have a shape that I think looks much better and I'm going to take Mousie back into Rhino with the gown and tailor it to her.

pjz99??  What think you of this shape??  Please tell me you like it.  Lie to me if you have to.

Honestly that looks really great.  You might play with multiple versions, because that dress looks great as is, but you might also try for bigger bells.  What you have really does look great though.

That looks fantastic.  When you are done, I hope you will write a mini tut in the Rhino forum to help the newbies along.  It seems that nobody wants to take the plunge into clothing modeling for Poser.

Here's a render.  Tell me what you think, as opposed to the first ball gown.  I think I may have gotten the tutu too close to the bell, which makes it look like it's painted on.  Grrrrrrr!!

I don't know if I am the best person to reply about dresses for mice, but I really do like this one better.  Don't worry about knowing what you are doing.  This is inspirational stuff and should shake up us guys who are used to making rockets and submarines and motorcycles and such.

Best person or not, you go with your gut.  I do think it has the better bell shape that jpz99 was talking about .... I do wish, however, that the folds looked a little less scalloped,  but I can't seem to get it so that I have a nice pleated joined waistband and loose folds as well.

I'll just have to really study some more.  However, I do think that I will stick with this skirt shape for my first freebie, and I will post a tutorial in the Rhino forum when I'm done.  I suppose I'm a bit nuts for diving into more organic forms without doing the more mechanical type stuff to start, but I really want to model clothing.

Sigh.  I'll soldier on ........

I think you're coming up with some really nice variations on your original theme.  I still like the fluting of the cloth on the first attempt you posted too, just the overall shape of the bell was a bit to spherical.  I'm sure you're on the right track and I look forward to future versions - and depending on what you end up with, you might find a place for it on the marketplace here, there are tons and tons of tight, slinky dresses but almost no hoop skirt formal gowns or period wear.  I think all the gown shapes you've put forth have potential.

We'll see if I can figure out what to do with it once I'm in there.  At least I know it all fits and it looks ok .... a little stiff, but ok otherwise.

Keep in mind, guys, I know from nothing in Poser.  Less than I do about Rhino.  And, although I've got the manual open in front of me, it doesn't do much in the way of providing examples.  It just sort of gives you less than no actual information.

This will probably best be left till next week.  I'm getting a headache.  But, I do like the way she looks now.  I really do.  I hope Vilian can come up with some really nifty textures for the gown and body suit.

I'm tired.

PhilC has a very good video tutorial with voice that covers how the cloth room works, it will help you tremendously getting started.  I can see from the shape of the gown that you probably don't want to try to clothify the whole thing at all; the top is tight against the body, so simulating cloth will do you no good for that, and the ruffles on the sleeves will be ruined.  The skirt could benefit from being converted to dynamic, but if you do, you probably want to split the model into two parts, and just make the lower skirt dynamic.

Phil Cooke has a lot of things heavily tutorialized actually, one of the reasons I threw him a bunch of money with no regrets even if I end up never using some of the things I bought, because he's very generous in making Poser more approachable for everyone.
http://www.philc.net/tutorialsIndex.htm

The basic intro to cloth room (very good, very clear, very informative):
http://www.philc.net/CC_sampleVideo.htm

PS: this would make your model significantly more complex, but if you REALLY wanted to dynamicise the hoop skirt in a convincing way, you might consider actually making a separate object UNDER the skirt, the "bones" that make the cloth hold its shape in the same way a real hoop skirt would.  The "bones" understructure would be a conforming figure like any other conforming clothing item, but you'd have the added spiffyness of a dynamic cloth item draping over that structure in a realistic way as Mousie moves and animates.  Beware that the tutu will probably gives you problems if you try this, because as I've found, it can be really difficult to get two planes of cloth to lie against each other without some really frightful glitching (see my gallery for a couple of examples).

oops, one more small suggestion:  any cloth item you have modeled, when you export the OBJ file, you probably want to make sure it is made up of triangular polys and not quads; Poser cloth room seems to really dislike quads in dynamic cloth.

That is a very nice looking Mousie dress:)

I may wait to make my model more complex after I've done a few more simple ones.    I already feel a bit like I jumped in the deep end.

If I can just manage to get this outfit set up so that it poses properly and consistently, I will be every so happy.

I'll check out Phil's tutorials later.  I remapped the lower skirt.  I think the new pattern adds a little something.  I think I will move back to Poser for a bit so that I can stage and render my next two images in my mouse series.

oh my!
another modeling star is born. good work, nice to see you found a way around your earlier dress issue.

Smart propping would be nice. I can see running this thing very lightly through the cloth room to get uneven waves on the skirt, something I'd want to do after getting an even copy, rather than pre-distribution.

Looks really cute.

Illustration #1- we bring in our zeroed Poser figure.

Illustration #2 - bring up the layers dialog and create a new layer by clicking the new layer button and make it active by placing a check mark in front of it.

Illustration #3 - we change the new layer’s color by clicking in the color box in the layer dialog in this case I chose magenta.

Illustration #4 - we maximize our top viewport, make sure snap is off (F9) and select the control point curve tool shown.

Illustration #5 – in the top viewport start putting down the control points to outline the folds in the new layer as they would appear along the bottom fringe of the dress when viewed from above. Make the shape as wide and as deep as you would like the bell to be at its bottom most edge. This is a rough draft of the curve.

Illustration #7 – Here is an example moving a control point to give more fold to our skirt. Compare this shape to the one in illustration #6.

Illustration #8 – At this point we have two options for our second curve: we can put down an entirely new outline shape as we did above but placed between the existing curve and the figure in the top viewport or we can do what I did here to save some time and that is to copy and scale the first shape to use as our second curve and alter the first shape for fold variety. To copy the first shape, click on the curve to highlight it then click the copy button shown. You will be prompted to point to the curve you want to copy from, select the first curve we laid down and in the front viewport, holding the “Shift” key (this will restrict the axis) bring the copy of the curve to about mid thigh of the figure.

Illustration #9 – To scale the curve so that it is smaller in diameter to the original curve we 2D scale by RMB clicking the button shown and scale the curve in the top view so that it is midway between the first curve and the Poser figure in the top viewport.

Illustration #10 – We can now access the control points of the first curve again and alter them as we like to bring some randomness to our folds.

Illustration #12 - Now before doing anything we activate our new green layer by placing a check mark by it. We go to the “Curve” menu --> “Curve from objects” --> “Section”

Illustration #13 – Holding down the “Shift” key to restrict our axis, we draw a line straight across the figure’s waist. Press enter or RMB click to finish the section selection process. We now have a curve which exactly fits the figure’s waist. To avoid crashing into the actual figure we would 2D scale it as we did above to make it slightly larger all the way around.

Illustration #14 – To make things easier to visualize I’ve hidden the Poser figure by clicking the visibility toggle (a little light bulb) shown in the layer’s dialog.

Illustration #15 – Now we can see the three curves we’ve created, you certainly can add more if you wish but three will be enough for our demonstration. Now to loft our bell skirt. Go to the “Surface” menu and click “Loft”. Starting from our bottom curve click one at a time and RMB click after the topmost and last one. You will then see that each of our curves has little white arrows indicating the direction of our curves. Satisfied that they are going in the same direction we RMB click again and a polysurface appears as well as the Loft dialog box. Leave the “closed Loft” option unchecked in the “Style” panel and select “Do not simplify” in the “Cross-section curve options” panel, click the “Preview” button to rerender.

If you’re not happy with the outcome, you can delete the polysurface before you polymesh to get the model and play around with the curves to your heart’s content until you do come up with something you like. Further, once you’ve created your model, I would take it into the clothroom in Poser and let it add more realism to it. Make a short animation maybe some 15 frames. Add a slight pose change somewhere halfway in the animation. You may have to add constraining vertices at the waist to keep it from falling to the ground. When the simulation is finished, play it back and see which frame offers the better view and export the mesh at that frame as an object file.

As a side note: You can use the trick outlined in illustrations 11-13 on your new skirt model to give cross-section curves for you to use on your tutu model just don’t forget to 2D scale them. Have fun and good luck!

Wonderful job Quest.  I don't suppose I could talk you into posting your tut in the Renderosity tutorials section.

No kidding!!  I could have used this information before I went through my little process.  But, then again, I learn best by doing.

I should probably take my little tutorial on skirt making down.  I posted it on the Rhino forum, but this really blows it away.

I'm going to print this out and study it in depth.  Thanks a lot Quest.  Really.

However, it does give a lovely drape of the folds.  I've still got to try doing the arm sections that way .... I suppose you can loft sideways??

I’m truly sorry Ricky I didn’t realize until now you were having any difficulties whatever modeling with Rhino. I offered help in the Bryce forum but no one indicated they needed it. I wrote it here specifically for your information and anyone else who can use it after reading this thread. I’m much more experienced using 3D Studio Max and Rhino isn’t really my forte as far as modeling programs go but it is my second choice. If you like, you may use this information and rewrite your tutorial but please don’t take yours down on account of this. It takes time to write an in-depth tutorial targeted at the masses with quality images and at present I have no such inclination.

I must add that there is one drawback to the technique I use when deriving curves from cross-sections and that is where the mesh is very detailed like around the face and when you try to derive a cross-section of the breast area of the figure, it will give curves but often they are opened curves and the loft feature in Rhino cannot handle both closed and opened curves in the same loft. It will handle either opened or closed curves but not both. Rhino will stop dead and tell you it cannot loft the object. So to get around this we must blend and join the curves to form one closed curve and this can be time consuming depending on how interrupted the cross-section is and how many cross-sections there are. It works well around the waist area because that part of the model is fairly contiguous and smooth.

Upon trying to execute a loft after selecting all your curves the loft tool tells you (just above the command line) to your dismay that it cannot do both closed and opened curves at the same time. So how do we know which curves are opened? What I do is create my own closed curve and run the loft again starting with the closed curve I created and then selecting the next curve from the model. If the loft takes, I cancel out from the loft options dialog now knowing that both these curves are closed. I then proceed to loft starting from the second curve, which I now know is closed and select the third curve and see if that loft takes. If it does, I cancel out again and continue the process until I find a curve which will not allow the loft to go forward. This curve then we know is opened and needs fixing. Fix that curve and continue on.

As an example, you determined which is the opened curve and you’ve isolated the curve from the rest of the mesh by hiding the mesh, if you see large gaps between the curve, these gaps can be easily handled using the Blend curves tool. But it’s not enough just to blend you also need to join all the ends to have them fuse into one curve. Blinding provides the missing piece but you need to join the ends.

Often you’ll not be able to visually detect a gap. To get around this you simply type in on the command line “CrvStart”, simply typing a “c” will bring up a list of commands which start with the letter “c” and you can select it from there. This will place a point where each segment starts letting you know where the breaks are in the selected curve (you can also use the “CrvEnd” command to find the end of a segment or use both commands). Use the window zoom tool as often as necessary to be able to view the gap allowing you to blend and join them together. The points will remain even after all the ends have been joined giving the illusion that you still have breaks but this is a fallacy. All you need do is select the point/points and delete them.

If you are interested and these procedures are not clear to you, then let me know. I will churn up a fast and dirty mini tut for you.

Oops, cross-posted! As for the colliding, I mentioned that in order to avoid crashing into the model, you need to 2D scale the cross-sections so that they overlay the model. Even if you have to take the time and scale each curve individually. LOL…yes, you can loft sideways also. One observation on your latest render, I thought you were going for more of a bell shape to the gown. To achieve this make the second curve (counting from the bottom up) wider and deeper. A wider diameter will loft to more of a bell shape if that is what you’re looking for. Also, try not to make your folds too even. You should be striving for a natural randomness. Don’t be afraid to experiment by pulling on the control points. They’re like rubber bands and act as such on the surface. Also do this: after you have constructed the polysurface, select it and turn on the control points to the surface. This will allow you to pull the clothing away from certain parts of the figure.

Yeah, I found out about the open closed curve problem with lofting.  It showed up because the mouse waist is seriously tilted, and so you can't draw a straight line over just a waist section, the way you can with a human figure.

However, I also figured out that I could join the curves into a single curve before lofting.

I am going for more of a bell shape for the ballgown, but I just wanted to give your tutorial a run through and see where it took me.

I've only been playing with Rhino for about a week ... if that, so it's not so much that I'm having problems, it's just that I've never done it before, so it's the natural learning curve.  I had no idea you could "blend" curves.  I will try that out tonight too.

I've never done any modeling before except for with primitives in Bryce.  Your posts and have been a huge help.

And I'm really glad to know that I can loft sideways ... that's going to come in handy I can tell.

**Please don't take it down.  You got your mousie a nice little dress using that method.
**

OK ... I won't take it down.  What I will do is get better at modeling clothing in Rhino and then I'll post all sorts of tutorials.

I'm gonna work at this until my eyes bleed.

Looks like I will have to put a link in the Rhino forum to this post as well.  Cannot let good info go unused.

Wow…I just took a run over to the Rhino forum for the first time in a very long time and let me tell you, I feel like such a heel now. I’m so very sorry Ricky! I didn’t mean to rain on your parade. I had no idea you had posted a tutorial there until I read it here after my posting. That is a wonderful tutorial you wrote. It serves its purpose very well and sets down many of the basic techniques and “must know” routines that anyone just starting out would be very grateful to get their hands on. Always remember there is no right or wrong way just different ways of arriving to the same destination. And I must applaud you. I had no clue that you’ve only been modeling less than a week. I thought that surely you had been at it for at least a few months. I mean, it seemed to me that you were able to import freely from Poser using the object file, converting over to Rhino’s native format 3DM, rotating the model and then scaling it up to work in Rhino with it. You are creating your own polysurfaces then translating that to mesh all while making sure that the object normals were all facing in the right direction so that the model would be visible in other 3D programs. Then scaling back down and rotating the model back for exporting to Poser. I mean these are routines that don’t come easily and must have taken you at least several hours of hard work to get down pat. My hat’s off to you, you’re doing some fine work and great progress!

And an apology goes to UVDan. It seems I don’t get out much or as often as I should other than to Bryce, Photoshop, 3D Studio and the Poser forums. Every once in a great while I do meander across to the other forums but it’s seldom. I knew you were somehow involved with the UV Mapper forum and I just come to realize that you mediate the UV Mapper forum as well as the Rhino forum. I now understand the reason for your flattering invitation to post the tutorial at Renderosity’s tutorial section. Now that I know the request comes from lord of the domain (lol…let me know when this gets too bombastic for you), I see it in a different light now and your interest becomes clear. Not to mention the guilt trip you both have managed to put me on…LOL. But you both have good points about sharing information. So, if you’re still interested, allow me to reconsider the invitation. Of course I’ll have to get all the information required to satisfy the tutorial section requirements. Then I’ll have to make the time needed to develop the tutorial within the guidelines.

Thanks, Quest.  That's s really nice of you to say that I seem to know what I'm doing.  I haven't a clue, really, but it's nice to know that I at least look like I do.

Really though, you did not rain on my parade.  Knowledge is precious, no matter how it is acquired, and I always feel that my efforts are a little lame compared to masters of the craft.  It just inspires me to work harder.

I will model the greatest mousie ballgown ever seen .... I swear on the tombs of my ancestors.

Naw, honestly you're doing great, you're learning way faster than I am and I had a few weeks head start on you.  Struggling right now with Hexagon trying to make a simple, lumpy Tee shirt.

It's OK Quest.  I did not mean to lay a guilt trip on you.  Especially at this time of year.  I understand how time demanding tuts can be, especially when there is  a specific format to follow.  I have linked this thread in the forum based tutorials in the Rhino forum header so people browsing over there will have a trail for find it here.

Awesome Mousie gown!!!

And yet, I am still working on it ..... 

The skirt portion is in its 7th or 8th itteration.  I may have something I can live with now ... then again, maybe I'm just getting sick of it.

I've been taking breaks to work on textures.  I found a site with some really nice close up fabric textures, and I've been turning them into seamless tiles so I can use them on the gown.

Man, this learning stuff is haaaard!!

Tell me about it.  :(

How do you turn textures into seamless tiles????? That info would be most useful to those of us that don't know how.

I download a copy of each fabric image that I want. I will usually download several of the same fabric if there is any kind of complex pattern on it, because I can't make a seamless tile out of something with just a portion of the pattern, and if I can get several that each have a part of the pattern, I can piece them together into a single pattern.

So, with my fabric images in hand, I take them into PSP (I have version 8.1) and I select one that I want to work with.  I increase the canvas size to about 1000 x 1000 and decrease the colors to 16.  I save the palette and make a note of the RGB information for each of the colors as well as the color index information.

Then, I make a copies of the other fabrics with the same pattern, decrease their colors to 16 also, and save their palettes as well.  Then, I take those copies and play with the color indices until they are the same color and have the same feel as my starter image.

Now, I can cut and paste them into a complete pattern.  When I have enough material pasted together to have a large enough section for a single repeat, then I merge my layers and save the result as a tile.  I can then take that tile back into PSP and save it as a texture which I can then just paint into my UV maps (and distort  and resize as necessary) to create fabrics.

For example, I found a really nice brocade at the site, and took the blue, red, and brown jpgs to work with.  Made them into a single repeat tile, and then took that tile, recolored it as needed (with only 16 colors to work with that part is really easy), and mapped it to the latest (not quite finished) version of the ballgown.

She's going to be sort of a "Miss Scarlet" kind of character, so I still need to model a nice wide bonnet for her ..... but you can see how the green brocade fabric works.

Working with plaids and some other types of fabrics is much easier simply because getting to the point where you have one repeat is a piece of cake.

Thanks so much!!!!!!!!!

Oh she’s beautiful! Miss mousie, will you go out with me? LOL Ricky, you can’t give up. Just put it away for a couple days take a break and come back to it later. That’s what I do. I’ve been working on a gown now since October.

BTW since I know you’re using Rhino I’m posting instructions on how to create an auto scale and rotate button on the Rhino interface which after format conversion will allow you to scale up and rotate Poser meshes with a single click of your mouse for working in Rhino and then by clicking the other button down scale and re-rotate your mesh to export back to Poser when you’re finished.

Thanks for the link!

Thanks, Quest!!

Anything that makes my life even a little bit easier, I am for.

I'm having a hard time putting the mousie gown away.  I'm cleaning house today (I mean CLEANING house), and after I mop a floor or dust a shelf, I find myself wandering back into the office and pulling out the damned gown and fiddling with it.

I finally discovered the bitmap import, and imported a picture of the Degas ballet ensemble for sale at the DAZ site.  That gave me the outline for my latest gown, and then I did your lofting tutorial again.  I still need to get into tweaking each lofting cross section to get the folds to be more realistic, but everytime I play with the control points, something seems to go ary (sp??) and somehow I screw my curves up such that one or more of them become open, and suddenly I can't loft.  Grrrrrr.

Over time, however, I am bound to improve.  I remember when I started with Bryce, and I couldn't figure out how to do the simplest things.  Now ... many years and a couple of Bryce Camps later, I'm whizzing through the Bryce parts of most scenes (except for lighting .... lighting is still hard for me .... I have no sense for it, no matter how many books on photographic lighting I read.

Modeling I can do .... once I figure out how to do it and what all the commands are, and where they are hidden.  I hate it when the books say (and the Poser book is one of the worst when it comes to this ....) "just click on the button and do " and I am sitting there going "Where is the friggin blah blah button, and HOW do I do it????"  Would it be so hard for them to stick in a few examples??

Must stop whining and moaning.  The cats aren't going to mop the floors for me.

I'm having a little difficulty understanding what you mean by the curves are opening, which curves, the original ones you lay down at the base of the skirt or curves that you cross-section on the tutu? The base curves should not open at all since you start with a closed curve.

If it’s cross-sectioned curves from the tutu then you need to follow what I said about using the “CrvStart” command and actually window zooming in to see the gaps. I cannot emphasize enough about it not being enough just to blend the curves. They need to be joined solid to the blending curve that is created and the only way to do this is zooming in close. Also, once you’re sure that a curve is closed, save the file and reopen to test it using the loft tool or in the analyze menu click radius and you place it to the curve and move it around the curve you should see a circle moving or if the circle is too big just click on the curve and above the command line if the curve is closed you’ll get a definite radius number feedback if the curve is opened then it will say “radius=infinite” and continue from there. I seem to remember having a similar problem once and thinking that either the computer was screwing up or the software was. Sometimes you might have created more than one curve both occupying the same space (closely occupying the same space), try deleting one and see if one still remains in its place if nothing then undo to bring back the curve. If the cross-sections are bogging you down so much that you’re wasting valuable time then the best thing to do is move on by manually creating your curves.

You can lock your main model in the layer’s dialog panel (the little lock next to the light bulb) and build around it looking at your progress from all viewports. Lay down points then connect them to create a curve or you can simply create an ellipse, place it close to where you need the curve and again viewing from all viewports scale it first in the one direction then the other getting the general layout then add control points and pull them out individually to where you need them.

Yup .... I did all of that.  Found the start and end points, made sure they were joined ... went all around the problem curves looking for gaps.  These were all on the cross section curves and some other ones I tried to create by joining one hand drawn with a previously close curve.

Anyway, whether it was two ore more curves in the same space, or some pesky unjoined end that I could not for the life of my find, I finally said to hell with it and just moved on.  There is more to life than nitpicking over one or two stupid closed curves that are apparently really open.

Sigh.