I've seen python scripts by Face-Off, Templargfx, and  I think bagginsbill, that all deal with this topic, but I have no idea how it's accomplished?

What's the least you should know about it's definition before you could tell someone you understand what it is?

What are the basic steps needed to recreate this in the Material Room?

Has anyone else noticed it works better on Medium-Dark, and Medium complexions, than on very Fair skin, by a long shot, why?

Why doesn't Poser come with this out of the box?  Are there any prospects to see this in Poser 7, or will it remain up to the Python Masters?

There are a lot of advanced applications for it that I don't pretend to understand, but there is a basic subsurface scattering Wacro in the advanced material room that is one click to apply.  To get an idea of how it looks please check my featured gallery pic, it has a high rez high quality example with text explaining which material uses SSS.  Basically I use it to catch light on things that don't want to catch it.

It works better on darker textures because very light textures already throw back a lot of light anyway; what it does is mimic the way a slightly translucent surface will gather and bend light rather than absorbing it flat or reflecting it flat.

Poser 6 does come with it out of the box, look in the Materials room on the Advanced tab, it's a plain Wacro; you just click whatever material, hit "Add Subsurface Scattering" and it's done.

Image:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1341120

Quote - There are a lot of advanced applications for it that I don't pretend to understand, but there is a basic subsurface scattering Wacro in the advanced material room that is one click to apply.  To get an idea of how it looks please check my featured gallery pic, it has a high rez high quality example with text explaining which material uses SSS.  Basically I use it to catch light on things that don't want to catch it.

It works better on darker textures because very light textures already throw back a lot of light anyway; what it does is mimic the way a slightly translucent surface will gather and bend light rather than absorbing it flat or reflecting it flat.

Poser 6 does come with it out of the box, look in the Materials room on the Advanced tab, it's a plain Wacro; you just click whatever material, hit "Add Subsurface Scattering" and it's done.

Image:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1341120

Actually, it's reffered to as "Fastscatter" and it's pretty useless other than the default lighting, and even then, you can't use it with cast shadows...I did a thread about a solution to that flaw a while back, but if you already have Vue 5 inf, it would be better just to upgrade to vue 6 instead of P7 because not only does it fully support total poser integration, but it does TRUE , and you can make excellent enviroments to boot! sub surfacescattering! "SSS" is used as an advanced skin shader to give it semi translucency towards the skin! Heres the link to my old thread!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2548324&page=1

Hmm, I thought the button says "Add Subsurface Scattering" but maybe I read it wrong.  It does appear to work with shadows cast for me, but maybe I'm wrong about that too.

Edit:  The thread you gave a link for appears to be a solution to a problem I don't have any context for.  Everyone seems really happy you and Bagginsbill found a solution, but what was the problem?  I'm asking because I don't know, because I'm new, not trying to tell you your business.

Quote - Hmm, I thought the button says "Add Subsurface Scattering" but maybe I read it wrong.  It does appear to work with shadows cast for me, but maybe I'm wrong about that too.

Edit:  The thread you gave a link for appears to be a solution to a problem I don't have any context for.  Everyone seems really happy you and Bagginsbill found a solution, but what was the problem?  I'm asking because I don't know, because I'm new, not trying to tell you your business.

No worries, check out images 4-5 in the thread, and you'll know what I mean!

Thanks Guys,

I thought it had something to do with making the skin transluscent, but it's been very nice to hear that affirmed by other people!

pjz99 - Thanks for reaffirming my idea that medium to dark complexions really do work better with SSS, and why

When you open the Poser 6 Wacros the button is indeed named "Add Sub Surface Scatter" but the node that is uses is called "Fastscatter."

takezo3001 - Thanks for the link!  I wish I had some results for you, but my figure's complexion is as fair as I could make it, and my lights are pretty intense.  Wven with the slightest SSS she starts Glowing!

FYI, it's not just for human skin, it has applications for a lot of materials and is basically just a cool effect to get some light thrown back by things that ought to do that.  Seems like everyone only looks at it for skin, I don't know why.

http://graphics.ucsd.edu/~henrik/images/subsurf.html

^^ by one of the guys that basically invented the technique in CG, has many interesting examples of how it can be applied.

Quote - No worries, check out images 4-5 in the thread, and you'll know what I mean!

Heh, well, I guess for the next 1.5 days until Poser 7 is released for download I'll get out of that what I can ;)  Going to switch over to Vue pretty soon anyway for all lighting and rendering, probably most of the materials too.

Quote - Thanks Guys,

I thought it had something to do with making the skin transluscent, but it's been very nice to hear that affirmed by other people!

pjz99 - Thanks for reaffirming my idea that medium to dark complexions really do work better with SSS, and why

When you open the Poser 6 Wacros the button is indeed named "Add Sub Surface Scatter" but the node that is uses is called "Fastscatter."

takezo3001 - Thanks for the link!  I wish I had some results for you, but my figure's complexion is as fair as I could make it, and my lights are pretty intense.  Wven with the slightest SSS she starts Glowing!

I'm with ya, My "Akemi" Character is a TRUE redhaired woman{I'm crazy about redhaired women!} And I can agree with ya on the fair-skin goddesses! My latest image is using a brilliant texture from Apographix, It's extremely RARE to see a texture with LIGHT Eyebrows! Also I use Fastscatter in my latest render with fair skin! And I also put the Edge blend node in the translucent, and the fastscatter from the edge blend!

BTW, I love your renders of the fair-skinned as eyelashes are a BYITCH to texture!
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=37447

Quote - > Quote - No worries, check out images 4-5 in the thread, and you'll know what I mean!

 

Heh, well, I guess for the next 1.5 days until Poser 7 is released for download I'll get out of that what I can ;)  Going to switch over to Vue pretty soon anyway for all lighting and rendering, probably most of the materials too.

As I understand, Vue 6INF not only has TRUE SSS, but it also fully supports poser integration, INCLUDING shader trees! IF I had the dough, I'd get Vue 6INF in a heartbeat!

"Going to switch over to Vue pretty soon anyway for all lighting and rendering, probably most of the materials too."

pjz99  -Oh, you won't regret going over to Vue. While I still like to render in Poser for portraits, the lighting & rendering in Vue is awsome & the detail of materials crisp! I'm waiting to get more memory before I can really get stuck into Vue 6 Esprit.

takezo3001 - Yes, I've seen ApoGrapgix' works before, the Scandinavian appeal there is definately attractive!

Your Akemi character is also very pretty!  Is she your own testure, Apographix, another?

Thank you!  The lashes took about a week if I remember.  It boiled down to getting the camera really close, opening photoshop, and getting used to the Render > Reload Textures function.  I just wish I could have half the luck with Trans-Mapped Eyebrows...

If you get a chance I'd love to see a screenshot of how you setup the Transluscent node, with the Edge and Fastscatter, for the SkinHead zone of the Material Room, please?

Wow, the wierdest thing just happened...I thought I'd show my appreciation for your help images with a link to where I got my V3 texture; and then one of my browsers was already opened to the artist's Marketplace?  

...Valea's Christmas Give Away, from last year, is my All Time Favorite V3 Texture, and it comes in High Res. if you ask nicely.

Natasha

Quote - pjz99  -Oh, you won't regret going over to Vue. While I still like to render in Poser for portraits, the lighting & rendering in Vue is awsome & the detail of materials crisp! I'm waiting to get more memory before I can really get stuck into Vue 6 Esprit.

You know, I don't know enough to understand the improvements in quality (but I trust that it will be better) - I'm switching over more for performance and convenience, I don't know how people can stand doing very much rendering with the builtin Poser 6 renderer.  I'll be glad to see the ass end of that thing, I tried the demo of Vue 5 Infinite and it sold me in the first 10 minutes of use.  I'm just killing a little time to let some versions shake out and then I'm upgrading everything at once, that will be a fun week or two :) ... broke, but fun!

Quote - takezo3001 - Yes, I've seen ApoGrapgix' works before, the Scandinavian appeal there is definately attractive!

Your Akemi character is also very pretty!  Is she your own testure, Apographix, another?

I modified the texture by using the Dodge tool where I wanted specific light tones{The Eyebrow area}And the burn, and my own Freckle brushes! Other than that, I used Apographics, and morris textures....And every freebie I can scrounge!

Quote - Thank you!  The lashes took about a week if I remember.  It boiled down to getting the camera really close, opening photoshop, and getting used to the Render > Reload Textures function.  I just wish I could have half the luck with Trans-Mapped Eyebrows...

You're welcome! Yeah, the eyebrow's/lashes transmap is all but useless to me as it's mainly used for dark textures, and the only way to get light eyelashes/brows is to apply a translucent node to them! But even while they looks great in direct light, in shadow they still glow! When I find a solution, I'll let ya know!

Quote - If you get a chance I'd love to see a screenshot of how you setup the Transluscent node, with the Edge and Fastscatter, for the SkinHead zone of the Material Room, please?

Here ya go,I did however, do a revision on this node set-up, but I still use the same principle..

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/media/folder_7/file_319874.jpg

Quote - Wow, the wierdest thing just happened...I thought I'd show my appreciation for your help images with a link to where I got my V3 texture; and then one of my browsers was already opened to the artist's Marketplace?  

...Valea's Christmas Give Away, from last year, is my All Time Favorite V3 Texture, and it comes in High Res. if you ask nicely.

Natasha

THANKS FOR THE LINK! You can NEVER have too many textures!

Thanks takezo3001, I'm trying to recreate that screenshot now.  What image is plugged into the Image_Map_2 node, is it he same as Image_Map_1?

Quote - Thanks takezo3001, I'm trying to recreate that screenshot now.  What image is plugged into the Image_Map_2 node, is it he same as Image_Map_1?

Sorry for the delayed "RE" In the second Image map node I used a bump-map. As far as bump maps go, If you DL a texture set that doesn't have a Bump map with it, You can also make your own, and you don't even need Photo Shop!

Just use Infranview, or Xnview  to desaturate, and invert your picture!

In case you don't have it here's the links!

http://www.irfanview.com/
http://www.xnview.com/

Thanks again, takezo3001!

I thought it would be a simple process, that worked from an original texture, but why Invert?

Quote - Thanks again, takezo3001!

I thought it would be a simple process, that worked from an original texture, but why Invert?

:lol: Sorry again for the late "RE" but you need to invert the Black and white texture because the white shows up as a "Bump" and the black shows up smooth, or no bump! You invert it so the {Lets say} Eyebrows will raise itself in the render using the inverted B&W text, whereas the simple B&W texture would lower itself into the texture in the render!

Hope this helps! ;^)

Inverting would account for painted on brows, but it's really a poor solution, causing as much or mor trouble than not inverting.... you end up inverting all skin pores, lip bumpiness/ridges, etc.  You'd be better off making a B&W texture and then 'fixing' that in a paint program (paint over the brows, or invert just those) before using it as a bump-map.

i just want to say that i'd like to know who to petition for true sss in poser.  for less than $30, you can get pwSurface for daz studio at full price.   it's less on sale.  if you use it, you'll immediately see the difference between full sss and the small and oddly implemented back scattering that poser does.  the main reason i use d|s at all is the wonderful effects it has.   i was reading up a bit on it, and an expert said that basically every non-metallic material has some sss. 

all the shader solutions i've seen are still too harsh, imho, and don't create any of the depth i can with pwSurface.  they're very nice and i'm terribly, terribly grateful, but i'd still like something that could produce effects like those in the pwSurface promos (frog and cube, especially).  i prefer poser for all its power and flexibility (can't do a simple hue shift in d|s without having to open a second app- which sucks for any shift of hair and eye color), but i very much prefer the skins i've made in d|s with pwSurface.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of D/S (probably because I haven't used it much), but that pwSurface is sweet and has always made me wonder why Poser doesn't have true SSS.

That might be my only disappointment (thus far) with P7.  Hopefully they will recognize this and put it in an update someday.  (but, then again, maybe it's not possible, I'm not a programmer, so I really have no clue.)

You might also have a look at Templargfx's SSS.py.  I have'nt seen, or heard much of it, but it's the only other SSS product, for Poser, that I know.(He's does magnificent Car Mats!)

Although, I may still have not answered your question.  If  "Free" is up your alley, then head over RDNA and look up bagginsbill.  He has a free beta program, called Matmatic, that creates out of this world materials!  He's got a thread called "Matmatic Jessi Skin Demo" you'd be interested in.  The "Jessi" part is adaptable to V3, with a little work.  He's also in a thread over there named "Porcelain-like skin", by jquin3 that's nice look..

Angelouscuitry, that turned out really nice.  Is that a face-off script?  I use and am a big fan of his Real Skin Shader.**
**

Quote - FYI, it's not just for human skin, it has applications for a lot of materials and is basically just a cool effect to get some light thrown back by things that ought to do that.  Seems like everyone only looks at it for skin, I don't know why...

Very true...I have found it effectively used for ice/snow and for all those that think Poser associated characters teeth look unrealistic - just add SSS to teeth and you will notice a world of difference!

Cheers

i've looked at bagginsbill scripts, all the shader solutions here, and asked about this over at the node cult in rdna.  you see how shiny your pics look?  that's exactly the opposite look i'm trying to acheive. 

face_off scripts are perfect if you want something to look like a photo, and a postworked photo at that.   i personally find both he and bagginsbill's solutions, though much, much, much, much, much more advanced than i could ever dream of accomplishing.  even with the proper 2 layers of sss in skin (red is for the scattering under the skin, but the skin itself also scatters),  are too red and even.  the result is a very flat look, imho, without the volume i get with pwShader.  it might not even come close to what they do in terms of realism, but i prefer the look while still loving all the skin tricks i've picked up from geniuses like face_off, bagginsbill, takezo, and others.  basically, as much as i love to use the looks i can get by tweaking poser scripts, i still want that soft pwSurface look.

i had never head of templargfx coming up with an sss script.  could you point me at it?

a link to a paper on proper sss and other effects in skin:
http://www.lamrug.org/resources/doc/sss-skin-tutorial.pdf

Quote -
 i personally find both he and bagginsbill's solutions, though much, much, much, much, much more advanced than i could ever dream of accomplishing.  even with the proper 2 layers of sss in skin (red is for the scattering under the skin, but the skin itself also scatters),  are too red and even.

ok, that made no sense and now i can neither delete nor edit it.  i meant (in actual english):

 i personally find both his  and bagginsbill's solutions a little too red and even, though much, much, much, much, much more advanced than i could ever dream of accomplishing.  i couldn't even with the proper 2 layers of sss in skin (red is for the scattering under the skin, but the skin itself also scatters).

and i cannot say how much i bow to those who know much more technically than i.

Cobaltdream, those are really cool renders.  I like the way you've used the sss.  Not everything has to be photoreal, and it is interesting to see someone push the boundaries a bit.  And, saddly, I don't believe there is anyway to achieve that look in Poser presently.

yeah, poser not so much.  and as much as my use is stylized, pwSurface can acheive a softness more like actual skin (that isn't made opague with makeup), with the translucent edge i see in real life.  and honestly, i haven't been able to get the rich shine i see in really dark skin the more ivory tones i see in pale people of different races, nor the tans and olive undertones of anyone who's been in the sun or just has some natural pigment.  and certainly not combinations, like the ivory with olive undertones you see coupled with dark hair you see among italians, greeks and latinos.  even thinking photoreal, i find the existing  solutions lacking the softness of people who aren't lit and made up (again, makes the skin more opague) and postworked to be a bit more hardedged and flat (less depth).  

if you look at the article i linked to, and the different types of scattering and such, you can see how much easier an actual power tool can make things, but also what proper sss can do.  it looks very different than the poser solutions we have, and with much more softness and depth.  i really don't know how we could even approximate that with poser, but i think it's possible to get pretty close with pwSurface (even if i haven't or can't).

As I occasionally search for my name, here I am. :)

I totally agree with all you've said - we need real sss.

However, since we're not always talking about realism, but just interesting effects, one of the earliest things I tried for juicing up the skin was this simple shader, seen on the left. The James on the right is stock.

Like it? It's not got anything to do with realism - it's just a look. Will post the shader next.

I have two monitors, and on one it looks good, and on the other it looks too red. Our eyes are really really sensitive to the tiniest changes on light skin. But the shader is so simple, it's very easy to adjust.

The most dramatic changes are possible by altering the Green value in the pink color on the top Edge_Blend node.

Check out how V4 is SSS'd.... I'm trying to duplicate this on other textures. It's a nice subtle effect.

it's a variation of bagginsbill's technique.  he's got a few different skin shaders in different forums, and one of the one's here he actually shows where that one has difficulties and face_offs works better.  conversely, face_offs needs recalculating each time you change the lights (which is problematic to me since i love the real skin shader but don't like to use it raw and unchanged). 

and neither produce anything quite like what i use of sss and translucency in d|s, and what i've seen of sss in galleries of different applications.  it's a very nice effect, and it definitely is an improvement, but i'm still hoping for something that has more softness to it.

http://www.runtimedna.com/mod/forum/messages.php?forum_id=92&ShowMessage=314074

:tt1:  Hi bagginsbill!  Here is an image of yours, we hav'nt seen,  over here at renderosity.com.

  I think this one is particularly advanced; but maybey too much.  I think the; gain, grain, poors, and freckles are too small.  When I first look I can see there is ton of contrst to focus on; but then when I do so I see/think there is too much detail, to attribute to Skin Contour.

  I see bagginsbill's:

Apollo Maximus Unbelievably Complicated Figure Shader 

Parmatic 2

and 

Baggins Lights

threads are all good to go, in the RDNA Node Cult Forum!

:biggrin:  Bagginsbill - I also read, somewhere, that The Secret V3 shader has already been done; along with a version for another figure also?  Allthough this would be the ideal time to start using AM, I never have before, and with V3 on the horizon maybe I'll hold off.  When do you think V3's version will be up, and what was the other figure?

I've been trying to help out another Member, DarkePhazeGraphiX, in her thread:

Can someone give me a brief tut on "FauX Skin Texturing"????

And thought I'd just update this thread, of my own, with some of the images; as this is where I link people, when they ask about SSS.

Here is an image, of Mari e17's Jullisa texture, before and after Face_Off's HyperRealV3.  These are the HyperReal settings Im getting comfortable with, so this transformation took all of the 20 seconds the script ran for!

Here is where I am with Fair skin.  I often say that medium Complexions work much better with SSS, and REALism, and this is why.

 The top left is as best as I've done; without SSS, or Realism.

The top right is as best as best as I've made it with HyperRealV3.py.  It is'nt bad, but I think it is too busy, and prefer the much smoother shader of the first image.

But mind you I've had weeks of practice with Face-Offs script.  The bottom picture is an example of what happened the 99, of the hundred, times I've tried to get his script to work; with this free texture, from Valea, named Natasha.