BTW - Karen if that's the only link you've foundyou aren't digging deep enough.

The limitation wouldn't appear on pro-nudity sites anyhow, they deal with laws in regards to the exposure of genitalia or public "lewdness" laws, a breast is not genitalia. Nor would the limitation probably fall under the lewdness or genitalia laws,  which is what pro-nude sites look at, since it was supposedly done to "protect" the individuals and not the public which is where they look.

The article on stupid racist laws and actions during Bush's governorship was iirc written by a woman , doesn't help the online search much though.

As I said I'll look into it more heavily this weekend and post what I find where it doesn't disrupt this topic, but today is Friday and that means Payroll and I have a few contracts to get out, so I don't have the time to search today.

LOOOOOOOOOL!
Leonardo violated the TOS of this site, so his work has been deleted. 
I hardly know what to say... I would like to laugh but then... I feel more like crying. What does all this nudity crap lead to? Shador? O Goddess!

And I'm missing something in this thread... what is it? Ah, now I remember - I desperately miss Captain Jack1, telling us off like schoolchildren that everything the authorities do is right. 
LOOOOOOOOOOL again.

Quote - JenX, I think what people are ranting and raving about concerning this issue is that it highlights just how pathetic Rendo's TOS enforcement has become. If any common sense is required it is from Renderosity/Bondware themselves.

I couldn't care for zeppelin-breasted, huge nippled, horribly lit thumbnails or art...but I do care about art and what it stands for. Art is a freedom of expression.

Now Rendo, may have the right to make rules as they wish (and I respect them for that), but they should remember a couple of things:

1. It is the members that pay for the upkeep of this place through the market place.

2. From Renderosity's mission statement: "MISSION STATEMENT
   The mission of Renderosity is to create a thriving, productive environment that encourages an atmosphere of community, respect, collaboration, and growth for graphic artists, digital artists, animators, photographers and writers of all backgrounds and levels. We are a community created by artists, for artists ... *Because The Art Matters!"

"Because The Art Matters!" -* if you enforce censorship, then I will argue that art isn't the thing that matters.
"growth for graphic artists" - growth isn't encouraged by censorship!

The TOS doesn't actually bother me, but I will stand for an artists right. Besides, Rendo's TOS is full of double standards - they won't allow copyright infringement (and rightly so), but do allow copyrighted characters from all media's (be it TV, film etc) to be used as avatars.

While I doo see your point, I still roll my eyes at the fact that so many want no censorship.  EVERY gallery on the planet has their own policies of censorship, whether it's "it doesn't fit our tastes" to "it has too much blue in it".  (For real)  I can guarantee that there are about 100 or less members out of the thousands of members here who have gotten their artwork into a brick-and-mortar gallery.  And I'll bet you that they faced some form of rejection and/or censorship while getting their art there. 
The fact is, Renderosity has a pretty lax TOS, in the scheme of things.  The nude thumbnail ruling will only serve to better Renderosity, by making it look more professional.  I know that I was forced to create my own, non-Rendo, gallery to showcase my portfolio, because I felt that even if I cried out for the ridiculously in-your-face thumbnails to cease, I would either get tarred and feathered, laughed at, or decried as a "censor". 
I know I'm not the only one who has created a non-Rendo gallery for portfolio work.  I've found, as I shop my work around, arthouses, printshops, publishers, and the like WILL join a "community" if they think your art is good enough.  And, if they find that your work is amidst trash (I've actually had that comment given to me...), they find that you find your work is trash, and DON'T ACCEPT  YOUR WORK. 
This isn't just about censorship.  This isn't about not being fair, or being contradictory.  This is about people who, from as far back as I can remember, ALWAY fight any version of change.  The only thing that Rendo is forcing anyone to do is to be creative.  On an art site.  What a damn concept.  :rolleyes: 
As for the avatars...I don't know what to say.  Not all of us watch t.v., or the same t.v. programs.  shrug  The only time I've used an avatar that wasn't me or created by me, I gave credit (as I had gotten it from the "official" site) as was necessary.  But, that's me. Staff here reside worldwide.  What might be highly recognizeable to you, some of the staff may have never heard of.  If you find problems, there are links to the homepages of mods and coords at the top of every moderated forum.  Use those links when you have problems.  That's what they're there for. 

JenX, I think we are in agreement to a large extent, but what I will just say is art is subjective and who has the right to decided if work is trash or not when regarding art. Personal opinions mean nothing to anybody but ones self, regarding views of art.
What is "creative"? Do Rendo know enough about my creation process or that of anybody elses to be qualified in knowing how to force creativity? I will go back to my original point that censorship is not a means to be creative...renderosity's TOS has no bearing on my creativity.
I would love to know who defined the limits of what is considered nudity and who actually considers nudity as bad.

As far as Avatars. I did indeed mention this to admins when the new design of forum came on-line and the answer I got back was that it would be an issue that is impossible to enforce. Hmmmmm, sounds like an excuse for not being bothered, something like this can be enforced as a day to day ongoing process.

True, art is subjective.  However, those who decide what is and isn't trash to them are those who buy work.  And, usually, buyers don't pick through the garbage to find the pearls.
However, I'm absolutely sure that I could go through the galleries right now, make a "this is utter shit" list, and be a lot more hated than I am now.  I could even give reasons why it's not aesthetically pleasing and technically wrong. 
Hell, you can't even post actual constructive criticisms on a piece without most members here getting up in arms!!!!   If you say something like "Great lighting, wonderful texture work, however her feet aren't on the floor, and she's not posed as if she's floating.  Otherwise, great work", and you get RAILED on.  Anything more than "ooh, that's gorgeous, VOTE!!!!!!" is regarded as Trolling.

But, well, art is subjective, right?  And, we're not here to grow! We're here for kudos, and praise, and telling everyone how mad I am that I didn't make the art charts lat week, dammit, and it's rigged, and everyone else but me is shit, and.....do I need to go on? 

Put on your big boy/girl (as necessary or wanted) pants and deal with it.  It's called life.  If you want cooing and oohing and "oh, you're so clever", print it out and put it on your mom's fridge.  All artists grow in one way or another.  It's actually gasp a part of being human.  We grow.  We change.  Dare I say, we evolve?  To learn is to grow.  To refuse learning is to remain stagnant, and stagnant waters become putrid.  If the "great" artists of our time can become known for what they do, great.  While I'm not a fan of modern fine art, I understand that it is subjective. 
Anyway, that was an unnecessary tangent.  I need to take my pain meds and go back to bed. 

sorry to side track but someone mentioned breast feeding in public, that always stuns me that stores get away with shooing women off to toilets to feed their babies, i can't understand how they don't get sued for causing "unnessersary suffering to a minor" or feeding in an unhygeinic envioroment, its disgusting that stores do that. it is not like a baby cries " oh would you mind feeding me please... oh you can't ok i wait then!" they cry "feed me  NOOOOOOOOWWWW!! DAMMIT....I'M GONNA DIE, IF YOU DON'T FEED ME NOWWWWWWWW!!!!" if they don't provide a comfy and hygenic area for feeding (like the cafe)i think they should be sueable, who the hell wants their child fed in a toilet, whenever i had to change my son in a supermarket i found those changing rooms were pretty rancid, couldn't imagine him feeding in those places.

*"I can see why they did it.  Removed the DaVinci, that is.  Not that I agree with it, but I can see why.
It is sort of related to the new thumnail images, true....but it's not that the "prudes" complain about such things.  Because, usually, in all honesty, it's not the "prudes" who complain when stuff like this goes down.

It's those who are pissed at the new policy, who will bitch and complain until everything is "fair".  Well, DDevant, ya got your wish!  Renderosity is "fair and balanced", and the DaVinci sketch was removed!  Bravo!!!  Way to stick it to the man!  I mean, because, if we can't have horribly-lit, zeppelin-breasted, plasticky skinned thumbnails in the galleries, we HAVE to complain about every posting Rendo makes that might come close to skimming the line, or even crossing it!!!

.....it's crap like this that reminds me why I could never be a humanist.  I don't have enough faith in people."*

I thought it was worth reposting this comment by an ex moderator of Renderosity just so everyone is clear that it is my fault that Leonardo da Vinci’s art has been banned from this site.
The problem with this site, Jen, is that we have  to many horribly-lit, zeppelin-breasted, plasticky skinned thumbnails in the galleries. This is mainly due to Poser been the most important ap here. Get rid of Poser and we have a pretty good art site. There are one or two good artists that use Poser but the majority are masturbatory fantasies and this is the problem and this is why we have the situation that exists here right now.

While I agree that that is a huge problem with this site, and many other art sites, but, well, can you imagine the outcry if they implemented a QC setup here?  If people had to submit their site for Quality Control before it made it to the gallery here, there would be an absolute mass freakout.
Also, sorry for using you as an example...but, uh, you started this thread.  The result?  They removed the nude image.  Sketch.  Whatever.  You bitched, they removed it.  While it may not be your "fault", per se, you triggered it, in the end. 

But, you know what the problem is with the community as a whole?  I'm talking the Digital Art Community.  Not just Renderosity. 
Elitism.  Commercialism.  Competition.
I remember, when I joined rendo in 2001, it was after viewing Moyra's Web Jewels (which is now down.  Moyra, incidentally, is a talented artist, working for DAZ, making wonderfully awesome texture creations, mostly for Platinum Club items.), and seeing a link to Renderosity.  I joined.  I pined for the talent.  I tried the trial version of Bryce 5 (I think it was 5..it may have been 4, but I really do think it was 5), and loved it.  Then, I saw human figures.  Saw that Poser was used.  Tried the Trial version of POser 4 and absolutely hated it.  I convinced my brother to help me buy Bryce 5, and I had it within a month of joining here.  I sucked at it, but I was learning.  Then, I found Terragen, which was free, and I didn't suck as badly at, and was encouraged by others to keep up with...which, of course, I didn't.  In all that time, I admit to lurking, trying to learn how to use the programs, trying to find out how to be at least moderately okay at this digital art thing....and seeing so many people helping each other, FOR FREE.  Sharing their knowledge.  For no monetary exchange. 
I didn't really pay attention to community goings on at the time.  I didn't feel I was good enough to "mingle with the pros", so I stuck to my little corner of the world.  I did, however, chime in with help once in a while when I knew of a fix.  It made me feel like I could, one day, be an expert.  Anyway, there was a policy change earlyish on in my membership.  I don't remember what it was.  It may have been when the hardcore erotica was removed from the galleries, and Renderotica was born, but I'm not 100% sure.  Like I said, I didn't really pay attention to goings on. Anyway, there was a mass exodus.  The forums got quieter.  (Those of you who are constantly going on and on about "we're all leaving, and the site is gona die!!" You've never seen anything like it, nor will you. So, you can quit shouting about the 'end of times'.)  But, those who were here for Community...they've stayed.  They're not as active on the forums much lately.  A lot of the questions being asked have been answered over and over.  They're still helping people out. Making awesome freebies.  Writing wonderful tutorials.  Sharing their knowledge.  They are why a lot of people come here day after day.  They are why I decided to volunteer back in 2005 to become a Coordinator (later becoming a Moderator).  I felt that I should give back to the community that gave me so much.  I don't have a great talent for modelling.  (You know the "Space cow" tutorial for Hexagon that comes with Hex 2?  Mine looked more like an art-deco jalapeno-couch.  Yeah.  I'm awesome.  psht)  I'm not the best texture artist in the world (but I'm getting slightly better).  My lack of concentration makes writing tutorials for people without ADD a bad idea.  So, I gave my time.  I'm such an idealist.  I thought things would go better than they did.  At first, they did.  And when things exploded from time to time, I'd take a break and walk away.  But, like I've said before.....the sense of community is gone.  In its' place is the "look at me, look at me" mentality of the galleries, the competition to be the most awesome and have the most comments. 
None of that is the staff's fault.  When lines are crossed that could potentially make the site liable for any actions....when lines are crossed that turn the site into a trash heap...when lines are crossed and people can't have a grown-up discussion without attacking each other....things like this lead to rule changes.  Now, people site-wide are up in arms over this change.  The admin have never stated that nudity is banned from posted images.  It can no longer be included in thumbnails.  I'm sure that, had everyone acted with taste and maybe even some etiquette, this ruling would never have had to be made.  But, you know those pesky humans.  Silly mortals.  Always pushing lines, revolting against authority, making waves.  (I'm not saying always be complacent, but, really, does every breath have to create a revolution?)

"While I doo see your point, I still roll my eyes at the fact that so many want no censorship.  EVERY gallery on the planet has their own policies of censorship, whether it's "it doesn't fit our tastes" to "it has too much blue in it".  (For real)  I can guarantee that there are about 100 or less members out of the thousands of members here who have gotten their artwork into a brick-and-mortar gallery.  And I'll bet you that they faced some form of rejection and/or censorship while getting their art there.  "

What's that got to do with censoring Davinci? THE master artist? While every gallery on the planet may have censorship of some sort I'll bet you a years wages that NONE of the galleries on the planet would censor DAVINCI! In fact they would all sell their souls to have a Davinci on their walls for just one day. But not here at Rosity, oh hell no. Davinci's work is far to risque to be posted here. Funny they aren't above trying to capatilize on his name( and other famous artists) with this master a week promotion.If Davincis work isn't good enough to be seen on this site then pull it all and stop using his name to promote the site. Oh and STOP calling this an art site and call it what it is, a store front. If DAVINCI isn't welcome on the virtual gallery wall here then you can't really call this an art site can you? What's next? Pulling  Rembrandt?

True, but, as I said earlier...had there been no bitching, I'm willing to bet every drop of blood in my body that it would still be up there.  Supid policies come into place when pepole can't use their common sense.

"..had there been no bitching, I'm willing to bet every drop of blood in my body that it would still be up there."

Actually, the proper response from Rendo to the original post that started this thread should have been, "Don't be so bloody silly," rather than taking the image down.  Rendo's incredible reaction to that post, in taking it seriously, is what got the backlash going in the rest of the thread, so it is down to Rendo, I'm afraid.

"On the front page there is an article entitled "daVinci Thursday". Does not the 2nd image of that article, the one of the full frontal drawing of a male contravene your own TOS?"
So you interpret that as bitching. Interesting. I thought I was joking but there you go. 
"Actually, the proper response from Rendo to the original post that started this thread should have been, "Don't be so bloody silly," " That is the kind of reaction I was expecting from them.
Interpretation is everything. I was amazed when they pulled it. Still they want uniformity of art and the Market Place so what can you do?
The point I was hoping to make was that some great art involves nudity and there is no reason why this should not be shown as a thumbnail. It is not unprofessional to have nudity in a thumb.da Vincis image is no way unprofessional. As proven by RR's use of the da Vinci picture. I never thought in a million years that a site that professes to be an art site would not allow a da Vinci pic.
So I guess it backfired a little but I'm still gob smacked.

Being great art'  won't always pass the test though.  I doubt there's afamily'-type website anywhere (at least in the USA) that would show Courbet's L'Origine du Monde in its full glory :)

In fact you'd have a job finding a meaningful bit of that one to make an acceptable thumbnail out of.

Oh, please. If you didn't want it removed, you should have kept your fingers off the damn keyboard.  Rendo reacted on the side of caution.  As they ALWAYS do.  There is NO TONE to posts.  Why?  Because in the written word, no one can hear your sarcasm. Usually, there are a couple exceptions....like, whoever is reading it knows you, and has their sarcasm detector tuned into your frequency...or, you say "Hey, I'm being sarcastic".  What I, and a few others, have read from the first post, whether you meant it to be or not, DDevant, was "Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!  Rendo changed a rule, and now they posted a nude on a front page article!!!!  I know it's a classic piece of art, but, still, Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!"
Now, DDevant, I don't know your sarcasm style. I've read a whopping 12 of your posts total, ever.  I know that, when I'm sarcastic, or trying to be ironic, I tend to try to be blatantly sarcastic or ironic.  Why?  So people know that I'm either joking or being sarcastic.  And, even then, sometimes I have to retroactively cover my ass.
 What I'm saying is...your post did not come off as sarcastic.  It came off as blatant, in-your-face, whining, and/or just trying to stir up shit.  Was that your intention?  Maybe, maybe not.  If you hadn't wanted the controversy that has ensued, you wouldn't have posted.  But, you had to have had some idea that, regardless of Renderosity's following actions, there would have been a shitstorm either way.  If they had left the image in the front page article, there would be twice as many decrying the site of censorship, and worse. 

OK I get the message

Say nothing, conform, what a stupid foreigner I am.

Quote - Say nothing, conform, what a stupid foreigner I am.

Of course.  You are getting in the way of selling things, which is the whole purpose of this store front.  Puritan/Disney, you've gotta love it; it's compulsory. 

Puritanism and Art are not compatible, just look in history to what happened to Art in places where Puritans ruled.
You cannot expect to Da Vinci, Michelangelo, Boticelli or centuries old statues be compatible.

Quote - True, but, as I said earlier...had there been no bitching, I'm willing to bet every drop of blood in my body that it would still be up there.  Supid policies come into place when pepole can't use their common sense.

He was pointing out a certain double standard.  If Rendo admin had any sense they would have come to their senses and realized how stupid the new thumbnail policy actually is.  Instead, they decided that their idiotic new policy was so sacrosanct that even Leonardo now has to comply with it.

Put I guess puritanical prudery trumping art is the new norm in today's society :cursing:

I think all that is too easy to understand 

I joined Rosity in 2002

Rosity was mainly a big art community with a growing store. And Art was The Law

Nowadays Rosity is mainly a Huge Market with an adhered community... of potential buyers. We aren't artists but pockets. Money is The Law. Money doesn't likes naked faeries? No naked faeries. Doesn't likes first page nude promos? No nude promos.  Doesn't likes naked thumbnails? No naked thumbnails. Tomorrow the next is full nudity? Well... Money commands, we obey. And Money always requests for more, more, more, more...

Do you like it? Eat it. Don't you like it? Eat it too or go away

I love the new thumbnail policy and Leonardo should respect the rules as well. People complain all the time that the rich and/or famous don't have to follow the rules like the rest of us.  I appreciate that Renderosity is willing to make appropriate changes to create an atmosphere suitable to be viewed by everyone. 

It isn't censorship, folks, it's called courtesy. 

I just wanna know who came up with this whole tribute to the masters thing...
 .... speaking of which, I think "da Vinci Thursday" doesn't have any more poetic ring than, say, "van Gogh Tuesday"....

ummm, but, I have to wonder just how many people here really care about da Vinci, Monet, van Gogh... and...whoever might be up for postmortem embarrassment in the future. I mean, considering they don't create Poser Content, 'n all, yanno.

It reeks of pretentiousness, IMO, but I mean that in the nicest way possible.

Quote - True, but, as I said earlier...had there been no bitching, I'm willing to bet every drop of blood in my body that it would still be up there.  Supid policies come into place when pepole can't use their common sense.

I agree with that, since the total lack of tolerance for others is what put these policies in place. If they people that had a problem with the thumbnails could have had tolerance and respect for the opinions of others then they would've just set the nudity filter in their profile and eliminated the problem without having to affect everyone else. How is that using common sense or courtesy for that matter to force their opinions on everyone else because they're offended?

If they were so concerned about thumbnails of the featured artist in the newsletter, why didn't they use common sense and just use an alternative like the avatar of the artist instead of insisting it was a factor in getting rid of the thumbnails?

If they wanted to promote artists, why would they be so dishonest in trying to pawn off a sanitized version instead of using common sense to give a true representation of the image? It makes you wonder who they're trying to promote it to and which artists they're trying to promote?

If they used any comon sense or tolerance for others then none of this would be necessary but that seems to be gone the way of the dinosaur. Those that replace them will have only "joy joy feelings for everyone around them" since "The future is a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiener"

Poser gallery shalt be closed.

Exodus 20:4, Derteronomy 5:8 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath. Deuteronomy 4:16-18 Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the simultude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air, The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth. Deuteronomy 4:23 Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget ... and mke you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the Lord thy God hath forbidden thee. Deuteronomy 27:15 Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman.

JenX:

Quote - What I'm saying is...your post did not come off as sarcastic.  It came off as blatant, in-your-face, whining, and/or just trying to stir up shit.  Was that your intention?  Maybe, maybe not.  If you hadn't wanted the controversy that has ensued, you wouldn't have posted.  But, you had to have had some idea that, regardless of Renderosity's following actions, there would have been a shitstorm either way.  If they had left the image in the front page article, there would be twice as many decrying the site of censorship, and worse. 

That was really unnecessarily snarky, given that the guy only pointed out the blatantly obvious.  When you have a rigid, inflexible policy ... with "exceptions" ... people are going to point that out.

I really have to think this one through...first joined in 2000, moved than in 2002...moved and now once again in 2006 (reasons for multiple joins is that I always had my 'rosity account connected to my work email...whenever I move ...I'm in the military...and get a new computer all the username/password information was lost, this one however is now on a yahoo account that I've established that will be the same no matter where I go in the world. That being said:

I've seen a lot of changes in Rendo over the last six years...I used to come here just to look at the Superhero images, so when the 'rotica left I didn't notice it.  Then I actually started using Poser using the default charecters and started reading the forums, I watched the very last volleys of the Erotica and watched Renderotica grow out of that.  Curious I looked over and saw Renderotica and learned a lot...came back here and applied those things I saw there with some of the stuff I saw here...I like to think I grew.  I remember when the the big names here weren't big names and they used the boobs in a thumb technique and guess what it worked, they can post anything and be guarenteed a jillion views and comments.  After my last move in which I didn't relocate until months after, get the house set up and came back here, I established a new username (mainly because I had so many variations of my username and had switched work email accounts three times (re structuring) that I didn't know what my username was or what email account it was established with...
Before I had become accustomed to to recieving about 600 views the first day an image was posted and a few pages of comments, because I was established (I found my old username password combo awhile back, and deleted the gallery), now I'm not, so if an image gets 600 views and a few comments I'm  happy, but I tried to post clean thumbs at first, since the last time under my old username that's what I was doing....nothing but crickets, as my thumbs got racier the comments came, it was when the thumbgate crisis that I finally figured out how come the old username could post clean thumbs and get many views and comments and the new one couldn't....I originally thought it was because now I was using Aiko heavily and not V3, it wasn't...it was because before I was posting clean thumbs, I was posting booby thumbs, once folks knew who I was...I didn't need that gimmick, but the gimmick got people in.
So just because  you don't need a gimmick anymore don't dismiss it, I'm willing to bet more of the very well known Poser artist here used it back in the day (I won't name names), between the Aiko/Girl controversy and now thumbgate (I can't take credit for that term),  Rendo has stopped letting the newbie have a chance to shine.  
As a reborn newbie I can see this.  Those of you who are mad because boobies got more views than your work...how many comments did you get compared to their's.  All rendo has done is alienate the newbies who want to be noticed, they eventually find their way, but Rendo is only interested in creating cliques.
Like I said, I love the site, but I've seen too many of my E-friends leave, or get banned within the last year because of  either let's redifine this and that.
In the end, I will comply.

Oh, Jen...when I go through the galleries every now and then I'll leave a "this looks wrong to me" or "hand going through wall" comment, I haven't been tarred and feathered.  I just don't leave a rating on those because every now and then someone will IM me and say, hey that part you didn't like well I was going for____________ and I go..."oh, now I get it"

Peace. love and boobies in jogging in Maine!

I think the trouble is Rosity unknows its own policy

A mod says there's no problem in nudity policy criticism while another mod ban a pic or a thumbnail with the same nudity policy criticism

Someone posts a nude pic (or thumbnail, I don't know, I don't saw it) in a daVinci article (so in the name of Rosity, so theorically it's GOOD), other one deletes the pic (so it's bad)

People says mods they don't want staff pics or Monthly Top 20 anymore because it serves no other thing but to create conflict, mods say okay, and some days later they post Staff pics again

Too much erratic. The big trouble isn't nudity policy, daVinci Thursday, etc etc etc. The big trouble is people don't trust in a site with erratic behavior...

Sad :(

Ps. I request a new Content Advisory option: Constructive Criticism

EDITED
@**cruzin

**I love the 'ThumbGate' word ;)

Quote -

That was really unnecessarily snarky, given that the guy only pointed out the blatantly obvious.  When you have a rigid, inflexible policy ... with "exceptions" ... people are going to point that out.

oddly enough, that sort of proves my point in what I'm saying.....that wasn't be being snarky.  I do try to make it blatantly obvious when I am.  That was me doing my best to be poigniantly straightforward, and minutely sympathetic.  Which is what I mean by tone not being recognizeable in the typed word on message boards.  Had I posted that as a .mp3 for all to hear, you'd probably have caught my tone.

Quote -
People says mods they don't want staff pics or Monthly Top 20 anymore because it serves no other thing but to create conflict, mods say okay, and some days later they post Staff pics again

I don't know about the other forums....but the Staff Picks was one of the most requested things to bring back in the past 6 months, IIRC.  In forum postings, IM's, etc.  I don't recall hearing any complaints about the Staff Picks, we had stopped doing it during the conversion, since we would set them up in the back room.  Now that staff has the ability to stickify a post, it makes it slightly easier to just do them.

But, yeah, it was the Hot 20 and the Art Charts that people complain about the most.  shrug

You know what would be nice?
One day I open up to Renderosity and see I have a message, I open the message and read:

Good day member,

     We here at Renderosity are considering changing the TOS specifically YOU NAME IT, because YOU DEFINE IT and we would like to participate in a poll as we weigh in on this descision please click the following link:

Then I would click the link and see the options

1. Yes this change is good

2.  This change is bad  let's stick with the way things are

3.  I don't care either way

4.  Read others comments before voting

Then I would click on one of the choices and I would see the results thus far

1. 58%

2. 29%

3. 13%

and a box stating please post my opnions on the matter.

Renderosity is a buisness and it wouldn't be what it is without the Artist, the merchants and the folks who buy stuff.
Then Rendo could look at the poll and then make a descision,  they don't have to agree with the poll but if would be a more informed way of doing things.  In cases like the example above Rendo could say "hey a majority of you wanted this" those who complain can only blame those who voted.  (btw...if were in charge I would count the didn't care as in favor of).
The site seems to be trying to attract new people at the expense of their regulars...
just a thought, just a thought.

reminds of me of the Simpson episode where Moe changes his bar to "M" and the tip jar is still empty

Quote - Renderosity is a buisness and it wouldn't be what it is without the Artist, the merchants and the folks who buy stuff.

Nice. But useless. Because I think already we are numbers. And I'm sure Rosity new members' number grows day-by-day. And Rosity's economical benefits too (obvious: more members, more sells, more money). So... what's the importance of a bunch of old members crying for ancient times?

Believe me: I'm sure people are leaving Rosity by its new policies. But I'M SURE TOO is bigger the number of new members. These are just the important numbers for a market: 'each month we have a bigger number of members', not 'old members are going away' 

the funny thing is you can't tell when old members leave or are permantly banned because the profiles still exist....the images are what get people here, the newbies see what the experianced guy has done and thinks "wow, I like that, ooh I wanna get that"  like I stated before I've been here for a bit and most of the stuff I purchase I've seen used in the gallery.

Quote -

Too much erratic. The big trouble isn't nudity policy, daVinci Thursday, etc etc etc. The big trouble is people don't trust in a site with erratic behavior...

If there ever is to be found an underlying theme around here (aside from the idea of Poser-as-art-tool), "Erratic" covers it fairly well, from the ever-changing TOS to the inconsistency of mod-stuffery. 

There's an idea for a website...  www.renderratica.com.

Quote - There's an idea for a website...  www.renderratica.com.

Yah, and it's not taken yet, either. Maybe they could buy it and put all the "questionable" stuff there...

Perhaps the trouble is that changes in TOS are too much quick and continous in order that mods could learn them. I suppose they aren't reading daily TOS thinking: "mmh, well... what's new today?". So some mods are busy and they learn changes later than other ones

I posted a theorically explanation in a paralel post about all this mess. A fiction. Let me show it. This is an invented story: imagine all you that PayPal's manager, a 60 years old man, takes his laptop and surfs the web taking a view of some sites where he have his bank online. Suddenly, while he's visiting Rosity he finds a thumbnail with a huge boob in the middle. Inmediately, he takes his cell and says: 'Pete, please, send to Renderosity administration the usual nudity email, second version' 

And a Rosity administrator glups his coffee reading an email like: 'Dear Renderosity Administration: we're sad to tell you we comprobed your site and we're still founding nudity without warnings, so a software like CyberNanny couldn't detect it and OUR CLIENTS' KIDS would watch forbidden content. This is the second warning we send you requesting you need to extreme cautions because PayPal only offer its services to 'family friendly' sites. We warn you if we find again another example of carelessness we'll inmediately paralize our account with you. We hope next time blahblahblahblah...'

Perhaps...

Heh.
's kinda funny - years ago they had a button on the gallery images enabling one to "Send to Renderotica". True, yes there was. I can't remember if it was publicly viewable, or only seen by mods, but it was there, alright.

'course, that was back when RO still had something to do with R'otica.

I have to say, thinking about it, it's been interesting over the years watching the TOS here "evolve" like it has; the strictness therein almost seems to directly coincide with the success of the site.

Not that that should be surprising....

Casette: You may not be far from the truth with that, didn't something similar happen at 'Rotica where all the nasty pics had to be pulled because the credit card Company's demanded it???

Maybe the "God Squadders" over in the US have the same prickly pear up their arse!!!!

Oh, yes... and in Erotic Illusions with violence and death pics... another matter with a bank online...

Sadly, but The Bank Is The Boss

Quote - I have to say, thinking about it, it's been interesting over the years watching the TOS here "evolve" like it has; the strictness therein almost seems to directly coincide with the success of the site.

Not that that should be surprising....

Hmmm, what do you mean by "success of the site". Compared to what the site was like 3 to 5 years ago I think it's less of a success - the forums are certainly much quieter than they were and if this is an Art Community than I would think its the forums that define a "community" and there for the success of the site.....OH DAMN!! I keep forgetting - its not community it's how successful the marketplace is.

Isn't that just yet another example of the Golden Rule? Those that have more gold make the rules for those that don't.

I suppose if that has more priority than all other considerations then they'll get the members they deserve. If they want to have only a commercial art site then why not just dump all the fine art and put Advertising, Banners, TV Ads as genres instead?

It's keeping up the pretense and perpetuating the deception that's the problem

Quote - I keep forgetting - its not community it's how successful the marketplace is.

Hmm .. valid point. Now I know this will probably be removed but here it goes anyways:

As the ole saying goes - "Money Talks" - so if you're bothered by the TOS then don't spend a red cent in the marketplace. Its that simple. If people stop funding the merchants - the merchants will start questioning policies and if the site wants to keep their marketplace running they'll have to address the issues. Or .. they'll just ban the merchants and users who protest. shrugs

damn, i should have read this before buying stuff.  
You know when I was taking buisness courses, Iearned the value of Market research, polls and such, I read the post about the McDonald's blah blah, but if McDonalds had a new policey that stated everyone must where a tie, to please those folks who did wear ties....they wouldn't do so well, Rendo keeps doing the same thing to us.
They keep forcing rules down on us "Homers, Lennys, Carls and Barneys" on the road rushing to find ties....pretty f'd up policy.  
I notice that none of the Rendo gods even bothered to respond to my poll idea, they are quick to jump on people who are complainers  and say "stop whining" but when someone presents an idea...and one that actually may make a little sense....nothing but crickets. 

Cheers, you're absolutely right there.
I was going to put the word success in quotations, i.e. "success", but I figured y'all would know what I meant anyway.

It used to be a much more intimate place than it is now, and I don't mean even having to go all the way back to '99 or 2000. Perhaps a bit more unruly, but it had a certain "personality", which seems to have become watered down considerably, with the advent of the takeover of rampant merchandising.

As for not buying stuff from here as a form of protest or whatever, I doubt that'd have any impact. I haven't bought anything from here in years, and it hasn't mattered any to anybody, I doubt. But it's not out of protest, it's just because, frankly, I don't see anything here ever that I'd want, plus, I'm not so sure about the quality, after reading things like "Marketplace tester wanted...must be able to release 3-5 items a day". The quote isn't exact, most likely, but the essence is accurate. That was an ad for a new MP  tester, placed here not long ago (maybe 6 months ago?). The key word being "release". Not "test", which you would think would be the important thing, but, "release"....

I browse DAZ all the time, and have bought much from them over the years, and even very recently. On average, I'd say I buy something or other from them every 2 weeks. The best thing about DAZ is you don't have to wade through 1500 pages of garbage to get at something decent; they're much more strict on their quality, so alot of merchant wanabees don't even get their foot in the door.

I look in the MP here, and I see.... well, I'll be nice today.

         "...but when someone presents an idea...and one that      
       actually may make a little sense....nothing but crickets. "

You don't know the half of it... In the end, this isn't "our" site. It hasn't been "our" site for a long time now. Suggestions will be heard, of course, but anything that goes against the predefined set of parameters that the PTB have laminated in stone, will not be even considered, particularly where the Almighty TOS is concerned.

Casette: You may not be far from the truth with that, didn't something similar happen at 'Rotica where all the nasty pics had to be pulled because the credit card Company's demanded it???

Yeah - I remember reading that was exactly the case - it was images dealing with rape and torture if I remember right.

The almighty dollar speaks - that's a fact of life all over. Rotica found that out the hard way - almost losing their entire way of doing business which would have SHUT IT DOWN ENTIRELY - no business, no gallery...(hint hint hint) Gripe about the business side of Rosity all you want, but if it goes, so does the Gallery. (NOTE: I've never bought anything from the Rosity MP - so I'm not plugging anyone here)

BTW - JenX was right - the first post  entirely read as a complaint calling them on the TOS. Direct complaint - no sarcasm at all (there's some research that says a little over 40% of meaning is lost in written communication - this was clearly the case) - and then I was totally bewildered and frustrated that you were NOW complaining that it was removed - I was thinking, "PICK ONE, WILL YA?!?!"

And because the Admins took the complaint seriously (as did I - and I know I'm not alone) and didn't want to ruffle feathers (remember, this IS a business site - and BTW there's a Gallery), they're being hung in post after post.

With all this whining about "not being a community" would everyone suddenly become happy if Rosity became like DAZ in that it's a marketplace first and, oh by the way - we have a Gallery?

That's a real question, BTW - not a gripe - would it make things easier to define as far as TOS if the open-notion of the site changed? Keep in mind that this would be a drastic change, and become MUCH easier for those-in-power to remove/ban/never upload/dissaprove images. It would become a direct representation of "look what you can do with our products" and not filled with a lot of  "I did this in less than 3 minutes (I even timed myself) and here is my new ART. I'll be able to upload another one after midnight - so watch out for it!"

I don't give 2-s**ts about nudity - what I DO care about is a complete lack of creativity, or even TRYING to make an interesting image - if you're just learning, more power to ya - and we all understand that when you post - so don't think I'm saying only seasoned professionals should post!

The TOS change as they receive more complaints - if you're not complainging, then be VERY obvious that the post is sarcastic as there's no "tone" in typed words.

"The almighty dollar speaks - that's a fact of life all over. Rotica found that out the hard way - almost losing their entire way of doing business which would have SHUT IT DOWN ENTIRELY - no business, no gallery...(hint hint hint) Gripe about the business side of Rosity all you want, but if it goes, so does the Gallery. (NOTE: I've never bought anything from the Rosity MP - so I'm not plugging anyone here)"

Well,maybe the gallery SHOULD go. If Davinci isn't good enough to grace the gallery here thenwhat IS? NVITWAS is fine but Davinci isn't? Give me a break.

"And because the Admins took the complaint seriously (as did I - and I know I'm not alone) and didn't want to ruffle feathers (remember, this IS a business site - and BTW there's a Gallery), they're being hung in post after post."

Ok, here's a complaint. Lets see if it's taken just as seriously. I don't like Rosity using Master artists names as promotions for their products, just to pull THE master artists work because of some piddly complaint. So lets just end this Great master promotion bullshit,

And Rosity already IS a marketplace like DAZ that oh yeah..... has a gallery. Has been for quite some time. Where have you been for the last 6 years or so?

Well,maybe the gallery SHOULD go. If Davinci isn't good enough to grace the gallery here thenwhat IS? NVITWAS is fine but Davinci isn't? Give me a break.

He is - a complaint was announced that Rosity was a hyppocrit for having nudity in one of its own articles - so they removed the ARTICLE because of the complaint.

And Rosity already IS a marketplace like DAZ that oh yeah..... has a gallery. Has been for quite some time. Where have you been for the last 6 years or so?

Um... Duh... I um... Knew that one... Thanks for sharing... So VERY informative - funny how it's thrown in my face as if to be an informative "you should know that - been that way the entire time" when all I've heard is people bitching over the fact that THERE'S A FREAKIN MARKETPLACE!!!!

I'm sorry - clarification - not that there IS one, but that it's such an integral part of the site that it overshadows the beloved Gallery that everyone complains about uploading to. They've gotta have SOME kind of TOS or you could post ANYTHING!

And what do I mean about "anything"...? One of the local colleges here has a problem - it's mostly an art college - with certain "rights" groups - "Right to Life" specifically - who keep showing up on campus with large boards they display to the students with photographs of aborted fetuses in harsh lighting. They parade around like they're making a point when all they're doing is trying to shock the st out of everyone - no TOS and you have some ahole posting THAT here on Rosity calling themselves "ar-TEESTS". They just want people to look - no viable point, no creativity or thought, no decency - just for people to LOOK (are we noticing a similarity, though, to some of the "ar-teests" here on Rosity - no thought behind an image - that they just want as many people as possible to LOOK?).

I know there's an MP - thanks for the scoop - but what YOU don't realize is there's gotta be some certain level of respectfullness (as JenX pointed out before) in order for any business to be viable. Pose a bunch of st, you don't sell st at the MP - and then the Gallery goes away.

So lets just end this Great master promotion bullshit,

Um... Ever buy a magazine...? "Interview with [big name master what what they do] - Understanding His Unequalled Techniques!" Not only informative, but it's for marketing purposes too - and if they don't do that, they go away... There's YOUR scoop - deal with it.

"Um... Ever buy a magazine...? "Interview with [big name master what what they do] - "

Oh I missed the interview with da Vinci. I bet that was informative. Does he buy Photoshop actions from the Market Place too?