rm - are you a mod?  if not, then how do you know what they count as clothing and what they don't?

Yes, the rating system is subjective.  The Rederosity  system is also - to a certain exent - subjective (in that we could probably get into a looooong discussion about what does or does not constitute "transparent" clothing), however, I do think the analogy still works.

I don't recall whether or not Darryl Hannah was seen nude in the "preview" of Splash, however, apparently the ratings board thought that the amount of nudity in Splash was something that children over the age of 13 could handle with parental guidance.

Pasties are a manufactured article of clothing specifically attached by the use of an adhesive to cover the nipples of an otherwise bare breast.  Pasties are, therefore, an article of clothing ... however abbreviated ... intended to cover a woman's nipples.  

Hair is a natural covering, generally growing out of the dermis and through the epidermis, in non-uniform patterns and densities.  It is not considered to be "clothing" unless it is removed from the body and woven into some sort of external covering.

No, I am not a "mod" .... however, I can read the policy.  It is in very plain English, no matter how much you may want to try to read things into it that aren't there.  Also, my background (or a good portion of my background) is in law, so I'm pretty good at reading policies and understanding what they allow and do not allow.

plz99 .... don't forget, as you are writing down you list .... it has to be a list where a "complaint" made a difference.  So, no fair coming up with something like the Declaration of Indpendence or Rosa Parks not giving up her seat on the bus.  Those acts should not be denigrated to the level of a "complaint."

um, rosa parks did make a complaint.  that's perfectly fair.  you're the one denigrating other people.

and actually, applies to this "this is a private site."  integration and equal rights apply to private corporations and clubs.  if people had stopped complaining about the terms of service at lunch counters simply because they were privately owned, things would be a lot different.

i'd say pasties are jewelry.  i wouldn't call a belly ring clothing just because it's a man-made.  and amount of flesh covered isn't important as i've seen necklaces that cover (a lot) more area.   and no one's reading anything into the policy.  i've seen several issues like this come up, and i think they should be clarified.

No ... Rosa Parks did not make a "complaint" .... that would mean that she stood outside the bus and told people that it was unfair for her to have to give up her seat to a white man.

What Rosa Parks did was stay in her seat.  She did a one woman sit in PROTEST, which is going waaaaay beyond the level of just complaining about something.  She TOOK ACTION and DID SOMETHING that was incredibly noble.

People did not sit around and "complain" about service in restaurants ... again, they took action and many of them were arrested for taking action.  They did so much more than complain.

If you want to call pasties jewelry, go right ahead.  As long as the jewelry is pasted on and completely covers the nipples even in motion, I wouldn't much care what you called it.

And, really you've just seen the same issue come up time and again.  It's seldom a different issue, it's really just the same old issue posed by different people.  No matter how many times anyone tries to "clarify" it, someone else will come up with a post that restates the same issue yet again .... and on and on and on it will go.

And, mostly people will do nothing more than complain.  They will not take action or form some sort of organized protest that would actually make any difference.  They will just complain.

I beg to differ, a lawsuit is the sincerest form of complaint there is.

Here's a few more examples:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oncale_v._Sundowner_Offshore_Services
California, US, 1998
A male oil-rig worker complains that he is repeatedly subjected to sexual harassment by his male coworkers with the acquiescence of his employer.
"Oncale v. Sundowner Offshore Services set the precedent for analyzing same-sex harassment, and sexual harassment without motivation of "sexual desire", stating that any discrimination based on sex is actionable so long at it places the victim in an objectively disadvantageous working condition, regardless of the gender of either the victim, or the harasser."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Darby
Abu Ghraib, Iraq, 2004
Joseph Darby complains that members of his unit are torturing inmates of the infamous prison.  Impact of this is still evolving, but you can thank the guy for risking his life so that government officials will be more reluctant to torture people in the name of "Freedom".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph_Meili
Zurich, Switzerland, 1997
Christoph Meli, a bank guard, complains that his employers are destroying financial records for deceased Jewish clients (some of whom would likely have been Holocaust victims), so that the bank can keep their money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Serpico
New York, US, 1970
NYPD officer Frank Serpico complains about police corruption in his department.  He was the first.  It took some time before media officials dared to pick up his story too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Wigand
Kentucky, US, 1989
Dr. Jeffrey Wigand, Vice President of R&D at Brown & Williamson Tobacco Company, complains that his company is intentionally manipulating the effect of nicotine in cigarettes.  He is later fired and financially ruined, taking a job as a school teacher for 1/10th of his previous salary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._board
Kansas, US, 1954
Thirteen black parents from four different US states complain because their children are racially segregated and not allowed to attend "white" elementary schools.  You can bet they didn't all wake up at 3am with the same idea in unison.  Oliver Brown was the first to complain and contact a lawyer.  Volumes of law are changed or entirely thrown out because of this case.

edit: formatting cleanup

A lawsuit is more than just a "complaint" .... it requires the plaintiff to go forward with the complaint, submit it to the court and argue the legal issues before the court in order to get a judgement.

Lots of people file complaints everyday, but never get them past the complaint stage.   So, again ... I would like to see a list of things where nothing but the complaint made a difference.  Not where someone took action as a result of their complaint.  That's taking action ... not complaining.

Where do you think the action comes from?  One person holds up their hand and says, "Hey, this sucks."

PS: the language used in all court lawsuit documents revolves around "complaint".  The one who brings the lawsuit is called the "plaintiff" (literally, one who complains).  You may use a different definition. I dunno.

Although, pjz99, your examples of things I don't consider complaints do bring to mind something I would consider to be more than just complaining about the Rederosity policies.

If you don't like them, and you think that they impinge on your rights somehow, rather than just complain about them, if you think you have a real case .... take it to court.  Filing a lawsuit would be taking action and doing something more than just complaining.

Okay, will you pay for my lawyer?

If what the one person does is just hold up their hand and say "this sucks" and enough people agree with that person, and that one person or someone else organizes those people into a group and they take action .... then something began to happen when they decided to take action.

But if that person complains, and not enough people agree, or care enough to take action, then that one person can either continue to complain (and get nowhere) or decide to stop complaining.

Although a complaint in and of itself, might be the impetus for action, a complaint without action is never more than just a complaint.  And, unfortunately, many people here seem to love to complain, but never are willing to take any kind of action.

Taking action in this case would be:

1.  As mentioned above .... taking a case to court;
2.  Starting an alternative site and making your own rules;
3.  Coming up with an alternative thumbnail system and convincing Renderosity to use that.

But, just complaining .... no action ... just complaining.  I don't see what that is supposed to achieve.  To me, complaints without action are just so much yammering.  And, while I'll fight to the death to defend someone's right to yammer (or vent), because it is a form of protected speech after all (at least in the country where I live), I reserve the right to not see what good the yammering (by itself) will do.

i just read this whole thread ... 10 minutes of my life I'll never get back

i just read this whole thread ... 10 minutes of my life I'll never get back

And ... I just read the response that you posted ... twice.  4 seconds of my life I'll never get back.  Time has a way of marching forward.

Quote - Although a complaint in and of itself, might be the impetus for action, a complaint without action is never more than just a complaint.  And, unfortunately, many people here seem to love to complain, but never are willing to take any kind of action.

Since we have a fundamentally different way of looking at things that is likely irreconcilable, and since you summarily rejected my data which took a fair amount of time to research, I will politely sidestep discussion with you on this. 

You people make me laugh.
As far as the thumbnail rules go...stick with it and there will be no problem. 
Let's not try and make this into another "free" pornography site. This is the aim of Renderosity. 
While I agree that some nudity is artistic. I like to see how creative people can get with clothes on, rather than off.
To the original poster, if you are so adamnant about having nudity allowed in the thumbnails, go to, and stay, at renderotica.com, where almost anything goes.

Sorry pjz99 ... but you are right.  I'm an attorney, so I see the "Complaint" of a lawsuit as a form of taking action, rather than as the type of complaining that goes on here.

So, you are right, we have a fundamentally different way of looking at things.  Or at least as to how we define the word "complaining."  I see it as essentially passive, you see it as a form of action.

As to your data, I do think your list is a wonderful compilation of people taking action through the legal system rather than just sitting around complaining.  I appreciate the time you put into that research, and I apologise if I was not clear enough in how I defined the words "complaint" or "complaining" such that you thought I ment taking action in the form of a lawsuit, when I did not mean that.

And, with that, I think I will leave PerfectN's complaint (of the non-lawsuit variety) for others to debate.  Because, as noted, I don't see what further debate would add anyway.

Adios ....

This is unreal, I can't believe this has turned into such a shitstorm and has blown WAY out of porportion.
For the record:
Rickymavetty: I dont' have a problem disagreeing with my point of view - I love conflict - however stick with the issue, make a personal attack as shonner did "weak ego and whiney" and Ill let you know how I feel.
I think the thumbnail rule is shite - my opinion. In order to keep posting my images here I have to comply with regulations - doesn't mean I won't state my opinion. You can keep stating that rendo is a business and "blah blah"....I know how to run a business - I have 7 of them.
Some poster previously asked if I think that I am somehow above the rules as I am an "elite" artist - no, not by any stretch (but thanks for the compliment). This is nothing more than my stating my opinion on something that I think is ridicuouls.
Pjzz99 - your standpoint was well thought out and stated - too bad it was skirted by other posters.
What I find amusing is that people state "that they find this arguement stupid or a waste of time" yet they still feel the need to put in their own 2 cents.
Again to Ricky - you somehow feel that I have failed to raise the winds of revolt merly because I have just "complained." Im not looking to change policy - I could give a shit if the thumb rule changes or not. I think its stupid and I said so nothing more, nothing less.

this has become a pissing contest ..all this energy should be focused on making art ...
(just make sure that art doesn't have any nipples, cracks, orifices, pubic hairs, crotches, cleavages, holes, moles, hairy moles, cheeks, balls, nuts, muffs, cuffs, cookies, johnsons, juggs, wee-wee's, marbles, ta-ta's, one eyes bandits, choochies, hoochies, units, family jewels, slits, peckers, long duck dongs, beavers, the fuzz or hooters ... and you'll be fine ;)

Since you are not looking to change policy, PerfectN, as mentioned ... I think it's nice that you have somewhere to vent and complain.  But, it is, after all, just a complaint.  No one ever said that you shouldn't state your opinion.  You can shout it from the roof tops.  

You did a little more than just say the policy is stupid.  At least, you said a lot more than that in your original post.  Had you simply said that, in your opinion, the thumbnail policy was stupid, and left it at that, who knows if there would have been the same thread at the end.

And, LeoLang, since you haven't posted any art (that I know of), why don't you focus your energy on making some?  And, you can even leave in all the things you mentioned .... just don't put them in the thumbnail that is used to preview the image.

my art is in the animation gallery you dip ... its called Mars 2120 it's a full length 10 minute animation completely done in Poser ... check it out ... you'll see my energy is rathered focused

Actually, I am not a "dip" as you term me.  Since there is no link from your profile to your gallery, I have no way of knowing what your "art" is all about.

However, I doubt that I would want to take 10 minutes of my life that I would never get back (as you so brilliantly pointed out) in order to view your animation.

Especially since you were so sweet as to call me a "dip."  That's really a great way to get people to see your "art" call them names.  Great advertising strategy.  Good  luck with that.

I donated my two cents to this topic, and bowed out gracefully some two pages and countless posts earlier.

PerfectN posted an image that didn’t conform to R’osity policy. He was informed of this by jumpstartme2 (a moderator), and thus chose to vent his frustration in this forum. A simpler, more human motivation one could not ask for. Granted, some of his methods have been...questionable ;).

I propose to you all, perhaps it’s time to let this thread die as dignified a death as it can at this point.

I suppose that brings me up to four cents now?

Does anyone have any idea how ridiculous this badinage is to most Europeans?
 
Only in Amerika.

'Methinks the Lady doth protest too much' - Hamlet. Is Rick a ladies name?

This is the most absurd rubbish that I've had the annoyance to be bothered with ( as a subscriber to the Renderosity Poser Forum) in my entire cognisant adult life.

ENOUGH!!!!!

pruiz ...

No idea how ridiculous this bandiage is to most Europeans.  Not a clue.

I'm also not certain that everyone involved in this particular bandiage is American.  There could be some Europeans participating in the argument.  Again, I don't know one way or the other.

What is it that I'm supposed to be "protesting too much"?  The point as to whether or not I'm a "dip"?

Yes, "ricky" is a lady's name.  It is also a man's name.  It sort of depends on what sex the person is who is given the name.

Let's hope that there aren't any more posts of any nature about the policy, and then you will be spared from this type of rubbish.

Enough is right. I have already asked for the name calling and personal attacks to stop. I dont think this is going anywhere but down, so Im closing it off. Sorry gang.