The best article I've ever read on Microsoft's latest bomb.
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
Scary, isn't it?

Attached Link: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

XP will still last me for years..... I've only switched to XP about 2 years ago. Did run Win98 until that time, but the updates of Vue and Poserdidn't run on that anymore. My main pc upgraded to WinXP and about a year ago the laptop and second pc were upgraded to Win2000 (which I like actually more then WinXP). Those systems will last years and by the time I'm going to upgrade I hope more software designers will run on alternatives for windows, so I can finally switch to something else on my pc.

If not..... I'm sure most of the software I own will still be usefull to me for many years to come..... even most poser content released these days is still compatible with Poser 4,  so it will take another 10 years before Poser 6 will the bottomline for poser content compatibility.

I think it's safe to assume I'm set for many years to come, since I'm not to eager to upgrade anything at all. I'm still one of those who uses Bryce 5.01, did not upgrade to Poser 7 and open office suits me fine.....

By the time I need a new windows, we're had a nuclear meltdown and no one uses pc's anymore ;-P

Vista is the most annoying and stupid OS that I've tried.  You literally get asked for permission for everything even to open a standard Windows message.

Unless they improve Vista a whole lot and make it less annoying, I fear that XP Pro will be the last OS that I use that is from Microsoft.  I can see me sticking with XP Pro long after they stop supporting it with updates if all they an do is come out with trash like Vista in the future.

Quote - I'm not to eager to upgrade anything at all. I'm still one of those who uses Bryce 5.01, did not upgrade to Poser 7 and open office suits me fine.....

haha! I thought I was the only one who felt like that!  I don't see a need to upgrade to the new versions of every program I have.

I still use Front Page 2000 for web building. My favourite graphic program is PSP 7.04 (they are on version 11 now.)  I only upgrade when the need comes up.  The only reason I upgraded to Poser 6 was because of the cloth room and the fact that I could use the Morphing Fantasy Dress in it and make the skirt dynamic.  Something that couldn't be done in Poser 5 for some reason.  If it could have I would still have Poser 5,  LOL

Thanks Mogwa - just spent the last hour reading through it and was totally horrified. One link there give me a real chuckle though "Translation From PR-Speak to English of Selected Portions of Macrovision CEO Fred Amorosos Response to Steve Jobss Thoughts on Music" http://daringfireball.net/2007/02/macrovision_translation

Thanks for the link, I need a new computer and I need to find a way to get a new XP for it. the stores keep trying to tell me that it Vista or nothing and I keep telling them that I don't want it. Not getting anywhere.

Acadia. Bryce6 is so much faster than 5.1/5.5. Also has much better lighting. I don't use it because I use Carrara5Pro and Vue 5/6I. But I did install Bryce 6 to see what was improved. Only paid $6 for the upgrade. That is why I can say that you would be better off with Bryce 6 if you had to use Bryce.

I hope there is a mass exodus away from this. You can finally see what the Linux boys have been screaming about for years... What vomit.

I know I will be laughed at or sent away after I say this, but I have been testing Vista at work, and, well, I have not had these issues after I configured it correctly, also, I heard, just heard that the high end Vista was created for benefit of programmers, so they can develop better games etc.  I actually am beginning to like Vista and let's face it, it will not go away.  XP had the same hesitant issues and I like my XP machine.

Sharen

One rule of thumb, with MS, NEVER upgrade when they first release a new OS until a year later when it's been fixed and patched too death. I'm pricing Mac's and plan to get one by next year, until then, long live XP.

Told ya they stuck sneaky copyright protection schemes into Vista. ;)

I make multimedia files, my own, I don't need my computer's or MS permission to play my own videos & music that I make with Poser.

That will be the day. HA!

Looks like MS is in bed with the RIAA/MPAA afterall.

Now I get the jest of those Mac vs PC's commercials where the PC has to keep asking permission to use everything & the Mac doesn't.

Quote - and, well, I have not had these issues after I configured it correctly,

The problem isnt the teething hardware/software troubles that Vista is having, cause those will go away soon enough as companies release better drivers and MS release service patches.

The real problem is that Vista has very draconian DRM services that are open for abuse by anyone that feels like it. So eg if tomorrow DAZ, eF or other merchants feel that their software/content aren't being protected well enough, they can start adding DRM keys to whatever they sell. If they do this, it will mean that every poser user that buys their content will face the exact same horrible DRM measures that video/audio users are facing now.

So your content wont work on anything but poser, you will not be able to edit or load poser meshes for reference on anything but poser, you will not be able to hand edit any poser file, you will not even be able to view any customised poser meshes on the latest large format displays. And if you do manage to do any of these things (even if it is all innocent), Vista will invalidate your keys, disabling not only your content, but also your graphic card drivers, your copy of poser, and any other software you may have been using to edit. And then it will not enable them again till you to buy/get a new set of keys for stuff you have already bought once.

This is exactly what happens in the case of HDTV video/audio on Vista right now, and it will happen the same way for any other DRM protected stuff running on Vista. It's a merchant's wet dream of course, but i'm pretty sure most users will not be happy, not that anyone ever listens to users.

A very good article.

My partner is a developer at Microsoft and I am on Vista thatnks to him. I totlly regret it and so does he - I complain about it daily because of all of the problems.
He did not like it either - and got very discouraged witht he company - and switched to a Mac. Now he loves it . . .  .and I am stuck on Vista.

All of his coworkers all switched back to XP. The people that make this stuff think it bad!

Normally as a mac user, I'd be thinking of a whitty one liner, But to be honest, I really feel sorry for you guys. That sucks!

Hopefully MS users will wakeup and stop buying MS/OS Vista crud, this will spell death for MS. I'm waiting for that day.

Quote - A very good article.

My partner is a developer at Microsoft and I am on Vista thanks to him. I totally regret it and so does he - I complain about it daily because of all of the problems.
He did not like it either - and got very discouraged with the company - and switched to a Mac. Now he loves it . . .  .and I am stuck on Vista.

All of his coworkers all switched back to XP. The people that make this stuff think it bad!

Now that's really saying something.  Not even the MS developers are using Vista!!

Since Intel are big proponents of the whole DRM thing and Apple are already doing something similar in iTunes, Mac users aren't exactly safe either. They may even be more at risk, since they generally care much less about the technicalities of their OS.

Either way, you can bet that the film/music conglomerates will not let any of us, Mac or PC, get away with freedom for very long.

Well, hate to say it, but I LOVE Vista. Runs faster on this machine than XP ever did, has never crashed. And erm... what DRM? I do the same things on Vista that I did on XP, rip cds to mp3, rip DVD to iPod. Whats the problem? The only issue I have is that my scanner doesn't work, but that's Canon's problem, not Vistas. Of course, I switched off that annoying UAC rubbish.

I booted into XP the other day, and it was like going from XP into Windows 3.1 or something. Horrible.

UAC? 

yeah, the User Account Control. Thats the little demon that lives inside Vista, and pops up asking "are you sure??" when you try to... do almost anything, really. Its intended to stop Mr & Mrs Stupid from running virus programs they've downloaded or deleting their system files. In practice, it pops up constantly... try to move a photoshop file from one hard-drive to another. "Are you sure you want to move that file?". erm.. yeah, I just moved it didn't I?

The UAC is a complete annoyance for 50% of users. I'd leave it on for your ageing grandmother or five-year old child, but for everyone else I say switch it off. (So do half the people at Microsoft too - well, the half that haven't gone back to XP anyhow lol). Point is we didn't have it on W3.1, W95, W98, WME, W2000, WXP - so why do we need it now? Are people getting stupider? Or are Microsoft getting nannier? (Is that even a word?)

Thanks for the explanation that totally clears one issue up.  Hope folks read this thread so they can go and turn off that horrible thing!  :blink:

Are you sure?  Are you really sure?  Are you positively, absolutely, really sure?...

Schmucks.

I guess this is better than the old Visual Studio days where removing source files from a project also meant that (unbeknownst to you) you also wanted to delete the source files from the harddrive permanently!  Never let someone else make decisions for you!  Demand control - not from MS or RIAA - but for yourself.

Cue subliminal message...    1984

I'm not too hot on Vista either. Tried RC1, deleted it immediately.

If the choice is between Vista and nothing when buying a new PC, I'd choose nothing, and buy a WinXP or WinXP 64bit OEM version separately.

Another reason to stay away from Vista. How annoying is that or do they really think people are that dumb??? I hate popups of any kind. I still wouldn't trust it with a ten foot pole. Ive used computers for over ten years I think I know my way around them by now without MS asking me if I want to do something or not on my own machine.

Pretty bad when you can't even play your own audio and video that you bought... but that driver revocation is what blows my mind :scared:

Some bad decisions made by MS, and I have a feeling its going to come back and bite them in the butt..people just aren't going to sit still for that sort of thing

if you don't like the pop-ups, switch them off. if you're not smart enough to figure out how to turn off UAC, then you need it ;)

(by YOU, I don't mean YOU, I mean people in general).

seems to me that half the problems people are having with Vista is a) they're basing their opinion on a beta they tried or b) their machines are incompatible. Even new machines with a "Vista Ready!" sticker doesn't mean it will run Vista properly, just that it can run the basic basic version (and that is currently the subject of a law suit). Saying that, I don't have the latest dual core, 1 gig gfx card, 8 gig ram machine. I'm using a five year old Pentium IV, with one gig of ram, and an old Radeon 9550 gfx card. Vista flies.

I'm one of the only people on the planet who actually loves Vista, to the point of being evangelical about it. MS should be paying me or something lol. All I'm saying is don't believe the anti-hype. Seems people are ready to jump on Vista for every little thing... "Vista has drm? Damn, I KNEW there was a reason I didn't like it". Except - what DRM? On what?

It's still no OSX, but its the best OS Microsoft have released (and I was a big Windows2000 fan, but this is better).

I'll shut up now and go back to making pictures :)

My systems are definitely Vista capable. Athlon64 3500+/4 GB RAM/GeForce7900GS and Athlon64x2 4400+/4 GB RAM/GeForce 7800GTX.
It's not that Vista doesn't work on those systems - it works. But it's far too "Mac-like" IMO. Too many visual gadgets, and too much searching for options that I can find blindly on XP/2000, such as pagefile settings, performance tuning options and the like.

When I first read about "Project Longhorn," I predicted that when MS customers discovered the truth, they would revolt.

bB

*Vista has drm? Damn, I KNEW there was a reason I didn't like it". Except - what DRM? On what?

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/02/drm_in_windows.html

If nothing, an interesting read (including long list of comments).

I'm with iggy23 here - I have been using Vista since mid Feb and sorry, but I have to say - I LOVE it!!! 

I love the way it looks, it is fast and I haven't had any problems with it. All my programs, including Poser 7, PSP-XI and Vue 6 run fine and perform really well.  

There are issues with it - especially with drivers. Some of my older programs are not compatible with Vista so I will have to wait patiently for a new version or patch to resolve this. (I used XP right from day one too and there were issues with it when it was first released but now most people seem to be happy with XP).

The UAC is very annoying, but it can be turned off - it is up to the user. However, rightly or wrongly, this is a major part of the security for Vista. We always complained because earlier Windows weren't secure, now we have security measures in place and we are complaining...  

I haven't had any issues with DRM either - but of course if I had, I guess I would be upset about it.

So, the "I Love Vista" people are few and far between, but I am really happy with it. I use XP at work still and it is so flat and dull in comparison.

I also knew  people who swore by Windows ME - but you couldn't torture me into using it.  The beta couldn't even install on my computer - later, the release installed and then proceeded to crash relentlessly (BOS or worse).  That's when I fell in love with Windows NT.  Never went back (NT 3.5, 4.0, 2000 Pro, XP Pro, XP Pro x64).  If I had a real need for Server, I'd go with it as it is even more secure/stable/powerful.  For basic users, the hobbled versions might suffice, but you want anything really to work you need a real OS.  Vista sounds like, for the majority (including Microsoft employees?) to be not-ready-for-prime-time.  And it's rather funny from my perspective - MS has been working on this thing forever - just think "Boston's third album". ;P

and some of us are still on  Win 2k...;) No worries so far...

Boston, in the news the other day, found the guy dead. Not going to look for his name in my old albums but don't expect a Boston comeback.

If they toast the DRM, I'm sure Vista would sell much better. I know I would feel better about it.

Quote - *Vista has drm? Damn, I KNEW there was a reason I didn't like it". Except - what DRM? On what?

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/02/drm_in_windows.html

If nothing, an interesting read (including long list of comments).

DRM in HD-DVD and blu-ray? Well.. it'll be a few years before I buy one of those players, and a video card to play them, and a big plasma to play them, and then buy the disks...

Its like saying the audio drivers for VST instruments use a protected pathway that only neural-net audio drivers can bypass... like... huh? and how does that affect me using Poser? Does it encrypt my Photoshop files? Does it require a key so I can load shaders into C4D? Do my word documents need clearance with the FBI before I can email them? DRM in Bluray is irrelevant to me. Certainly no reason for me to stop using a fantastic OS. And like I said, if I could afford to go down the HD route, I wouldnt be using a Windows machine I made out of spare parts anyhow.. I'd have an 8-Core Powermac ;)

Oh I love reading these - lets all jump on the bandwagon...jeeez!

Well, firstly, I have no constant pop-ups while testing Vista...but then again, I suppose that's because I've set the right permissions for my user account.
DRM - oh well boys and girls, aren't you in for a shock. DRM will be incorporated into all pre-recorded media eventually, so it won't matter if your using Windows, OSX or Linux - to view the content you will have to have HDCP support  within your hardware...else you'll not be viewing anything.

As already mentioned, Apple also have a strict DRM policy within iTunes and the iPod, so don't think it's a Microsoft only thing.

I'm having to test Vista for deployment to 600+ graphic workstations, so I have to be sure it will work or not or my head is on the block...and so far, I have seen nothing in Vista that causes me great concern...well nothing that can't be overcome or was any worse than what I saw in XP or 2000.

As I said above, I do like using Vista, of course I am testing it and know how to work around issues, but many people will and have jumped into Vista without any background knowledge and are getting (they feel) burned.  Many just get it because it is new, or just got a new pc and because of lack of knowledge think they have been dupped.

But as stated by iggy and rocco_9, It is not as bad as it is getting bad comments by users whom are in unfamilar grounds.

Software is evolving as well with it's own protection and users will begin to see these popups (if you want to call them this) and it will also cause people to stir.

Some new software won't even run now without registering a pc key.  There has been so much piracy around, it will only help prevent the waraz around the PC and Mac world. I know so many people that still steal software, it amazes me that they just don't dig down and pay out for their own software.

I stand on my opinion and tests, it will evolve and sooner then later,  you will see only Vista around the pc arena and others will eventually like it.

You still see others complaining about XP, but again it has to do with not knowing the basics of pc's.  Sharen

I still plan to get a Mac. Ive always wanted to get away MS period. Of course they're gonna be users who love and will defend Vista  & MS me, on the other hand, is not going to take any chances nor do I really want it. I make my own media files. I dont do itunes so that wouldn't worry me at all. I dont listen to the top 40 nor do I listen to music on computer unless it's a file I made with a video.

I dont like having the latest MS OS shoved down my throat because MS says you have to get the newest version. Blah. I still say they have sneaky copyright protection in their OS's. I've already read far too many articles written by techs on it to not believe it.

All the protection in the world isn't going to prevent a hacker from hacking into their OS. You are fooling yourself if you believe that a hacker can't crack MS products in a day. I dont  care what childish schemes they install, it won't work. It's been proven, time and again a hacker will out beat MS on the sameday something is released.

(mho)

Umm, Sharon? Keep an eye on your cpu utilitation with a 3rd party app; the Vista DRM scheme has been benchmarked as eating 20% of your CPU power. I'm actually typing this from a laptop I just bought with Vista Home Premium on it (I needed a portable computer, and this way I do not have to sacrifice one of my renderboxes on the altar of needing to keep up). Losing one fifth of your processor power in an unneeded routine is never a good thing. On the other hand, I specifically got the laptop with Vista to evaluate it myself, so......

Quote - Are people getting stupider? Or are Microsoft getting nannier? (Is that even a word?)

Not stupider, just becoming common sense ignorant. We are moving to a race of individuals that wants everything done for them without the individual having to think about it. The more we depend on man made technology and think how perfect and infoulable it is because man made it the more and more we lose the ability of using common sense.

I read an article, and I believe it was also on ABC world news, about the new technology going into cars. Things like flashing lamps, bells and horns to tell the driver if he is driving too fast and catching up to the car in front, to tell the driver he/she is drifting into another lane, to tell the driver that the light is red, etc. If people are not paying attention to traffic signs and signals now what make the car manufacturers think they will listen to bells and whistles?

If you're that stupid that you can't pay attention and need flashing lights and audible sounds in the operation of a 2500 pound weapon that can kill you ( 50,000 Americans die per yr in senseless auto related deaths) or others then maybe you shouldn't be driving. To me this does nothing more than build a false sense of security and remove personal responsibility. Why use common sense when you have all those pretty lights and bells doing it for you? And if you are in an accident then you can just say you didn't hear the warnings. It's all rubbish the more  so-called technically advanced we become the more incredibly ignorant we become.

Same can be said about this. Why be aware or educate yourself with basic computer functions, web surfing, virus and other nasties when you can have a software do it for you? Why be responsible? Is this not the teaching of the future? It's not my fault it's somebody else.

Hmmmm, well I certainly wouldn't consider myself a MS fan...in fact I cut my teeth and and pay some of my bills working under a Linux enviroment and actually have an intel Mac dual booting Microsoft, Apple and Linux OS's.

I just see an awful lot of miss-information spread about about Vista, as well as Linux and OSX. Vista isn't perfect, just like OSX or Linux. DRM may be a pain, but don't choose to ignore the fact that you will see it in all OS's sooner rather than later, or ignore the fact that other OS's already have it incorporated to certain degree!

I see so many people complain about Vista - well, you have a choice to use it. Use OSX or Linux. And for those who say, "my app isn't supported by it" - well, I say, use an app that is supported by it. There are plenty of graphics apps that support Linux or OSX, so choice shouldn't be a problem.
I really can't see what all the complaining is about...it's not like you have a gun to your head to use it.

OK, some people like Vista and some don't. I don't see any need for Vista as long as XP fulfills my needs. The new Vista user interface looks cool, but it also costs a lot of performance. The lack of Open GL support is annoying and leads to a lot of troubles on some PC configurations with Poser7 and other application that use Open GL. Nvidia seems to have implemented Open GL in their graphic card drivers to compensate that.

If you have installed Vista on your PC and it works you're lucky. A lot of people have problems with Vista for various reasons. Often due to a hardware configuration that is only partially useful with Vista or instable drivers.

I installed XP64 Pro on my new PC and I'm very happy with it. I didn't find arguments for myself to upgrade to Vista. People who prefer Vista over XP may do this because of the better user interface. I didn't see other improvments yet, except higher memory and CPU consumption and lack of drivers. Microsoft has still a lot to do to make Vista really superior to XP. On the other hand, Microsoft needed SR2 to make XP superior to Win2k.

So let's wait one or two years...

Actually, OpenGL support has always been supplied by the graphics card manufacturers. Not only for Vista, for all versions of Windows. And Linux. And OSX. Microsoft only provides OpenGL 1.1 emulation for all their OSes, if you want real OpenGL support, you have to turn to the graphics card manufacturers.

There's a lot I do not like about Vista. But the lack of OpenGL support is not primarily Microsoft's fault.

By the way, when it comes to DRM, Apple has done its share too, and is now facing lawsuits over their policies considering iTunes and the iPod...

you know, its funny. Not funny ha-ha, but funny strange. Vista was released, and it was almost as if all the hardware and software manufacturers were getting it the same time as we, the public. Thus your printer probably won't work, cos XXX haven't written a Vista driver yet. Your scanner probably won't work, cos XXX haven't written a Vista driver for it yet. Your.... get the picture? I blame poor planning for this one - MS should have finished the OS, then released it to every hardware and software company they possibly could. Then sat on it for three months... and THEN released it to the public. But nooooo, they wanted it in the stores the day after new years, whatever the cost. Well, the cost is that everyone is complaining that their hardware/software is incompatible with Vista. And that Vista doesn't go OpenGL. And that Vista crashes their RAID. And don't get me started on Vista64...

OpenGL is there on Vista.. trouble is, especially with ATI, they took the new OS as a chance to re-write their catalyst drivers from scratch. So when Vista was released, the Vista version of Catalyst had... what could be described as alpha versions of OpenGL. Its getting better, we're now on Catalyst 7.3 and OpenGL works fine in Poser, DazStudio, Cinema4D, Second Life.. I'm not sure what the situation is with Nvidia, I think they are slightly ahead of ATI as far as their OpenGL goes, but not by much.

Nevermind.. by the time VistaSR1 is released at Xmas I'm sure everyone will just have about caught up :)

(please don't take my OpenGL spiel as gospel - thats just how I understand the situation to be, I could be wrong)

Quote - And for those who say, "my app isn't supported by it" - well, I say, use an app that is supported by it. There are plenty of graphics apps that support Linux or OSX, so choice shouldn't be a problem.
I really can't see what all the complaining is about...it's not like you have a gun to your head to use it.

I disagree. Microsoft's operating systems completely dominate the pc format market. The corporation is a monopoly that has been convicted of predatory business practices. That is not my opinion, but that of the United States federal courts. The fact that they have been able to thumb their noses at the courts' explicit order to make Internet Explorer deletable from their operating systems by finally allowing the installation of other browsers is remarkable, and clearly demonstrates the willingness of my country's authorities to ignore the law whenever they choose.
Claiming that programs capable of running under Linux is offer a viable  alternative  is not a valid point. Each application has unique properties that make it an irreplaceable asset for individual users. Besides, Microsoft does all it can to discourage developers from porting titles by punishing "violators" with sanctions. Withholding SDK's or delaying their distribution is a a common tactic. Then there's the complex matter of accessing or using proprietary code without "permission." In other words, you serve only Microsoft, or you'll find yourself going broke from horribly extended development times for Windows apps, or winding up in court.
My only reason for submitting the original post in this thread was out of concern for the users here. The majority of us are working people who have to carefully consider most of the purchases we make. We don't have unlimited financial resources. Vista is the most expensive public sector operating system MS has ever released, and it established fact, not opinion, that it is incapable of dependably running a great many popular programs we all use, and have invested substantial sums of money in. If Vista serves the needs of a business, fine.If not, the cost of the software is tax deductible. I couldn't care less.
Vista seems to me to be the perfect avatar of our times. We live in an age of vanishing freedoms and diminishing choices. My government has practically abandoned its constitution in the name of security. Our brothers and sisters in the UK can't walk across a street without being spied upon by surveillance cameras. Some British private schools ( what we refer to as public schools in the U.S ) have announced their intention to stop teaching anything concerning the Holocaust because the parents of some Muslim students may find it offensive. My God.
And now we have put up with Vista. Installing it on your system is like having a three hundred pound cop come bursting through your door and jumping astride your back. Once comfortably settled in, he proceeds to criticize and  interfere with everything you do. Sure, you can gag the thug, but he's not going anywhere. He'll just continue his spying in silence until he decides to fetch you a good whack upside the head.
I don't need to pay for that service. My wife does it for free, and she's a lot cuter than Bill Gates.

Yea, but Iggy, weren't most of the hardware manufacturers given copies and plenty of heads up to get those new drivers ready and out the door at release time?  From what I've read around the net leading up to Vista's release this seemed to be the case.  So then some blame needs to be put upon those companies that fell short!! 

As for switching to a new OS, XP, as I've stated is my fav and will remain for the time being.  I'm not closed to Vista but I'm a bit shocked by all that I've read, esp here in this forum.  I'm sure by SR1 things will be MUCH better and then I'll think about it again.. 

Despite the resources used to power Vista I do like all the cool interface stuff.  I will admit that!!

It's already been mentioned about the false information concerning OpenGL support  in Vista, so I'll not repeat what has already been said. Just another false rumour concerning Vista...one of many.

As for it not being true about apps not being supported in other OS's - well, this is a Poser forum and I do believe Poser is supported in OSX.
Want modelling in OSX - Modo, Maya, Blender, C4D etc, etc
Want scene creation in OSX - Vue, Bryce and Terragen etc, etc.
Want modelling in Linux - C4D, Maya, Blender etc, etc
Want scene modelling in Linux - hey, it's lacking, but I bet 90% of people who use Vue or Bryce wouldn't be interested in Linux anyway.

I think there's is plenty of choice and the facts speak for themselves...and I've not mentioned half of the 3D and 2D apps available on multiple platforms.

As I say, nobody is making people choose to use windows, the hardware and software is there for people to use if they wish to change...the only problem is that people find it easier to find fault in something than actually get off their arses and change what they find bad. Nobody has to put up with Vista...it's your choice.

If you have to buy a new PC with Vista on and don't like Vista, then install Linux. Don't like Linux, well buy a Mac - you can then put on it whatever you like.

That's the rub, Cheers. Sooner or later we won't have a choice if we prefer pc's over the more expensive Macs. The SDK issue is not a figment of my imagination. Developers will either adopt Vista protocols and standards, or MS will not co-operate in facilitating production, thereby vastly increasing costs. So much for choice.
Complaining about the obvious and well documented intentional hobbling of an operating system the user pays hard earned money for is not bitching by lazy layabouts. It is a legitimate complaint against an inexcusable business practice that should be punished in the marketplace. The article I referred to earlier refutes much of what you're claiming with detailed, documented fact. My take on this issue seems to be shared by almost every professional programmer and developer I've encountered.
As for OpenGL, when thousands of users repeatedly encounter a Windows generated shutdown error message with the same programs on different machines, and when following the option for a detailed technical report reveals a failure of an OpenGL call, I think the point is obvious.
I hope you will not take my contrary position as a personal attack. We simply disagree.

Steve Jobs is on the case to get rid of DRM. iTunes has to have DRM because the Record Companies instist on it. There's nothing Apple can do about it other than try to convince the Record Companies to drop DRM. The good news is, This week EMI came around. The new DRM-free music will cost $1.50, instead of $.99. --- http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/13181/ Apples DRM-free EMI deal a master stroke that should cement Apples dominance Tuesday, April 03, 2007 - 10:11 AM EDT "Apple's deal to put the EMI music catalog on its iTunes store without antipiracy software is a master stroke that should cement Apple's dominance -- and could lead the change in how most consumers get their music," Priya Ganapati reports for TheStreet.com. Ganapati reports, "The lack of restrictions and the higher-quality sound could potentially make iTunes the clear choice for music distribution, as users get rid of the intermediary step of buying CDs from retailers and 'ripping' tunes onto their iPod." MacDailyNews Take: Users were already eschewing the practice of buying CDs and ripping them via iTunes and the iTunes Store was already the clear choice for legal online music distribution before yesterday. Apple's DRM-free, higher quality deal with EMI (and the others sure to follow) will only accelerate what was already taking place. Ganapati continues, "By opening up the iTunes system, Apple has turned itself into the most important link in the music distribution business and has turned up the heat on subscription-based digital music rivals... Apple expects about half of the 5 million songs currently on iTunes to be offered DRM-free by the end of the year." MacDailyNews Take: Like Apple needed to turn up the heat. The subscription outfits were already baking to a crisp in a blast furnace simply because they are trying (and failing) to offer something designed mainly to extract recurring revenue, not to fulfill consumer's desires. People want to own music, not rent it. Ganapati continues, "For Apple, this move could signal the next evolutionary change in the iPod/iTunes empire." Full article here. http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsanalysis/techstockupdate/10348107.html --- bB

I was a beta tester on Vista and now have Vista ultimate and have never had a problem till recently see my earlier thread 'Seriously...' or so I thought till this morning.  Sure Vista gets your ok before it does something but can turn those off, I don't simply because I have deleted too many files over the years by accident.  Vista is more stable than XP, and the big problem is that 3rd party companies didn't upgrade their own software, even when they knew that Vista was on the way.  Example, the reason I had to buy a new DVD burner was because the old one which still worked fine, didn't work with vista.  The software actually only went up to win98 not even ME or 2000, much less XP.  I got it to work by finding a 3rd party driver file that worked under XP.  Samething with my flatbed scanner, although it's software went up through win me.  This had gotten me wondering just how many problems people have with windows is actually due to some other software that hasn't been upgraded since win 95.  It still might work under win me, 2000, but by the time you get to XP, problems are starting to crop up.  Then you start looking at Window since it is the operating system, not a software problem from you scanner, printer or what have you.  I am sure that the people who know software and hardware can usually fix these kind of problems with no effort.  But the rest of us, usually don't thing about the 3rd party software that sits on our computer.  I know that I usually don't.  It's always something to with Windows.

Here's what happened this morning...

This morning, I got the directions on how to remove the software from a DVD Burner I had bought and the software wouldn't load under Windows Vista. The burner was made by Sony and the software is made by NERO. The cleanup program supplied by NERO removed the earlier version of the software and loaded the new software and it works under vista. Here's the whoops. After it cleaned the earlier verison of NERO that didn't work, I checked my email and guess what! everything was there. All the stuff that I thought I had lost was sitting where it should be including all my documents and everything. So here's the question, Did Vista knock everything like I assumed or was it the NERO software? I got the update for Vista on the sameday that I got the Burner. The Nero Software hung up and wouldn't finish loading. That night I got the update for Vista rebooted the computer the next morning. So was the screwed version of NERO or Vista that caused the problem.....
Inquiring minds want to know.....

Earlier this weeked I posted a message warning about Vista and the upgrade that I had thought had destroyed, erased or whatever a bunch of my files.  But when I got NERO straighted out, all and I mean all of my stuff was suddenly back.  The Problem it seems was with NERO not Vista...

Cinema 4D can only be run on Linux through an emulator!

There is a Production bundle that runs natively on Linux, specifically for STUDIOS and not for individual consumers - and, iirc, it costs a bundle as well.  It has a service contract and can only be purchased upon request.  I don't know the cost, but lets just say $10000-$20000 isn't a bad guesstimate.  So, no, there really isn't a Linux option - unless you're a rich guy with a studio making a few $100K/yr.

Windows C4D 6.3-10.1
MacOS C4D 6.3-10.1

And I'm a Cinema 4D plugin developer - so I know these things... ;P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_4D

Oh no Mogwa, certainly not taken personally, but as a good debate ;0)

As for the OpenGL, well, is that Vista or poorly implemented drivers from the card manufacturer? It's easy to blame Vista, but it is up to the drivers to properly integrate with the OS they have been developed for. The machines we use are mainly used for 3D (Maya, Max and ZBrush amongst others) and I have found OpenGL to run sweet and I must have put in at least 200 hrs of testing so far. As I say, my job depends on me making a wise decision and so far out of 10 test machines things are looking good to roll out Vista this Christmas (the earliest time we can consider a change for logistic reasons).
Hey, if it was down to me I would run everything on Linux (it is what I learnt my  shader programming on), but we are stuck with Max, so in this case I have to go with the flow.

As long as our programs run well on Vista, it is all I'm worried about.

As for the resources Vista takes up..well, I'm afraid a graphical interface and indexing activated by default doesn't come without cost...but then again when XP was released the realistic chance of buying a workstation with 24GHz of processing power was pie in the sky as well.

I know C4D for Linux is for studio use only...I've used it ;0) The nature of this argument isn't concerned with cost..it was about the restrictions associated with Vista.
I argued that if you feel that restricted then you had the option to change without much hassle.

Lets face it, money will always be an argument for getting something...I'm sure if it wasn't we would all be buying a 3Ghz 8 core MacPro.