How about having the nudity, violence and whatever other scary filter there is, on by default for uploads?

This is already in place - you have to select "nudity" or "violence" or "both" or "none" before you can move on.

Pjz, I'll drop you a mail :-)

Karen, I just read the "reasons" for the changes.
Why the hell would you want the gallery to look consistent?? You mean a series of boring head shots, fractals and landscapes?
The ability to use shots in newsletters? Here's a sugggestion - don't use the "offending" ones in your newsletters.
The shock of seeing nudity when you open the gallery - better to err on the side of the mundane - you don't know how many people will fall into cardiac arrest seeing any form of nudity.
Rendo is being reduced to a homogenized bland site run by a group of anal retentives.
I think the reasons are assinine and there could have been better ways to address your concerns.
Noticed how many artists are leaving?

Anyway, I've had my fill of the endless debate. It is what it is...

Karen, your new avatar makes you look EVEN YOUNGER! Good for your! A couple of days ago I read a thread/post in the forum where someone (I think from Australia) was swearing British-style and I could hardly understand a world they said except "bloody". Someone told them to watch their language, It was really quite funny if you are not British. So swearing is relevant to the listener/reader. Now, how about some nice bland text thumbnails: ex: Naked Vicky 1, 2 ,3 4 in Temple; Naked Vicky (or Miki or whoever) surrounded by attractive props, car, or whatever; semi-naked alien gals; Man (this is a rare one) with naked naughty bits; Naked Vicky artistically painted in skimpy clothes; and so on. Just the word "Naked" will make people look, LOL!

I found the URL. http://www.calarts.edu/~jwhite/gbj/index.html

@Karen

Quote - So for both of you, you have not told me what type of images you feel you are prevented from displaying here...

Umm. So what? I can expect a 3 day ban for not answering correctly? :p
The "..." almost make a threat.

...

The pictures that I wanted to post are not longer relevant because I got no permission to publish them. Like I wrote before...
But if, the only concern would be the part of the TO(denied)S where all kind of violence against living beings is covered.
Other than that I had no problems so far and will have none in the next couple weeks or months.
Work...

Quote - Zarat, you have said that creativity and the TOS do not function together. But you haven't stated anything specific. I'm getting the impression from your post that you were happier when the marketplace accepted all kinds of sexual-orientated products?

I'm not expectig an answer regarding any specific problem.
Those artists who feel their creativity is limited by the TOS said this already over the past years and also in this thread.
I only expect some solution for the problem that many decide to move to other sites for the rules are less restrictive there. For example DA. DA is ... well, nothing good at all, but seemingly there are less problems with TOS while there's no porn all over the place.

I would be happier if there were not around 20 marketplaces to watch for new stuff.
The impression that you got is conditional.

IF many small marketplaces would be brought together in a few larger ones
***    THEN*** it's inevitable that the filtering is less restrictive
***        ELSE*** it simply won't work and things will develope as they do.

That should fix your impression...
Yeah, my post was a bit long and one can miss a line or two. :)
It's not what I find at RMP that annoys me, but simply that not only artists move elsewhere but also vendors. With the result of many small marketplaces.
And I'm not talking about all kind of products. It's fine if there are 4 MP's, ReRo, DAZ, Renderotica, and some MP solely for architectural stuff.

Quote - The decision to remove those types of products was made on a business basis. Sales have improved and customer feedback is more positive since that decision was made. Naturally we can't please all people, all the time. Please also remember that Renderosity is based in the US and subject to US laws. US views on some subjects (such as sex) can be quite different to the European view ;-)

Well, if you say so then it's fine.
There is still the option to keep all stuff located within 1 domain.
2 or more marketplaces for different types of stuff and 2 or more main galleries for different types of art.
There could easily be a listing of all written stuff and one for fairies, one for birthday/holiday stuff, one for more sexual oriented art and maybe even one big boob only gallery.
And for gods sake put all images that contain nudity in a separate gallery.

This way no one can complain about the nipples (or nudes) of fear and loathing that appear "unwanted" on screen.
If one enters a certain gallery under these circumstances, he/she should be aware what to find there.
The controversial US-views on some subjects won't matter in this case because the user decided to enter a gallery. No accidents, nothing unwanted. With US-laws that shouldn't be a problem.

And yes, it's possible to set up a website like this.
There must now be an really really good excuse why not to go this way.
Why not to please more people while at the same time not making more feel offended.

The couple 1000,- USD to write all the needed code shouldn't e the problem here.
It must be some other reason. It's also not a real problem to come to this solution. Every average human being would end at this point pretty soon.

If it's really the money then maybe ReRo want to collect donations to get this done.

Sorry but I don't get it.
To me it only seems like some responsibles make a problem out of something that is none.
After all, no one asked for something like a unified field theory. Only some HTML and so on...

It's like trying to teach a dog how to read and write. If there's any reaction at all, then it's always the same 3 noises. But I'm curious what we will see first: a dog that can read and write or a good management for ReRo . Prolly we will rather see an dog getting it's PhD than the latter.
I could almost feel pity for such an management.

The horse is not dead yet. It's only dead if it's completely fragged and scattered across the web.

Umm. So what? I can expect a 3 day ban for not answering correctly? :p
The "..." almost make a threat.
What, an ellipsis is threatening? That's a new one.

And yes, it's possible to set up a website like this.
There must now be an really really good excuse why not to go this way.
Why not to please more people while at the same time not making more feel offended.
Because that's not the website we want.
We don't want to segregate nudity.
That certainly wouldn't please me, nor would I imagine it would please a majority of users. It's never come up as a request in the annual surveys (to my knowledge), whereas the nude thumbnails has been brought up time and again.

And I'm not talking about all kind of products. It's fine if there are 4 MP's, ReRo, DAZ, Renderotica, and some MP solely for architectural stuff.
OK, so you approach PoserPros, Raunchyminds, PoserCorner, Netherworks, RuntimeDNA, and all other "small" markets you can find and ask them to close down because you'd prefer to just visit 3 websites. You let us know what they say ;-)

Or better yet, approach the people who sell their products at those sites and ask them to move to Renderosity (or Daz, or Rotica) because it makes your life easier, and see what they say.

You're trying to deny market forces. This is capitalism at work, my friend. People will broker where they want to and buy where they want to. It's voting with your wallet - democracy and capitalism hand in hand. No?

well, as someone who had an image removed recently because it depicted a girl wearing a thong, and that was what the thumbnail was concentrating on, I'd like to give my 2 cents here...

i did feel the "rejection syndrome" when I logged into my account and I saw that my last image was not there anymore... "my image doesn't have ny nudity, why the heck did it get pull off" was what i thought, I guess similar to what meltz felt... and there it was, the site mail...

it explained my model showed too much buttocks, even if she was not naked.. so the moderator put the "nudity" tag for me but still removed the picture because of the thumbnail... adviced me to send her a new thumbnail and that would be the end of it...

I had a really short exchange of ideas with her, but in the end, Renderosity is her house (so to speak), and she's representing the owner of the house regarding what "framed pictures" I can hang in their walls or not... so, I just took like 30 seconds of my frugging time, I created a new thumbnail and sent it to her.. hours later, my image was back on...

what I'm getting at is : what's the big deal? I don't own rednerosity,a nd certainly don't pay for its hosting or any of its operation costs... it is not my website, so, if I'm a guest here, I should adhere to the rules.. otherwise, I just should leave, which is what pretty much everyone has concluded here...

just saying: rules are there for a reason, don't get mad because people who are supposed to inforce those rules are doing their job... in the end, meltz decission to leave the galleries is the perfect one, to my consideration... me? I'm just  NOT gonna use thumbnails of girls wearing thongs anymore, but I'm still for damn sure gonna keep posting them in the actual full size image (with the nudity tag, of course, lesson learned). I'ts so simple I don't even see where the darn issue is...

I have always stated to people concerned about the new policy,  if your not sure ask a moderator or coordinator. I myself love helping people. Renderosity has always had a TOS. and a simple we are not going to except anymore nudity in thumbnails  is pretty simple. Read the TOS or ask your Moderator or Coordinator its not that difficult to work together and thrive as a community.
We have over 3 million members here.  Why is it that only ten percent still don't get IT were as the majority like or dislike the policy still get  IT ?

Over all I still say ask a Moderator or Coordinator of the gallery ..Part of there job is to help you the member out .I want to see everyones post your Image up in the galleries but lets work together  abide by the rules and agian If not sure ask away

SITE WIDE CONSISTENCY

Sorry to be the one to be the bearer of bad news, but there is no "sitewide consistency".

Not when we all can see nudity in a banner ad at the top of the page, wich if I'm not mistaken is at the top of every page one visits at the site.

There's not any "sitewide consistency" when there's still nudity allowed in the gallery images themselves.

And there's not any "sitewide consistency" when there's still nudity in promo pics in some of the stores over in the mp.

Please stop trying to pee on our legs and tell us it's raining. I seriously cannot understand why ya'll just don't come out and admit what we all know to be the real reason for this anyways.

Darth,

There is NOT nudity allowed in the banner ads??  Please let us know which specific banner(s) you are referring to? 

Also there is NO nudity allowed on Mktplace thumbnails or the first promo image. Just on promo 2, 3 or 4.. So like the gallery, you have to click into something to see the nudity. Not sure exactly what you are referring to??

Oh and yes we still allow nudity in the full image just like we do in the 2, 3 and 4th promos on the Marketplace. We never said we were doing away with nudity altogether so again I don't know what you are referring to?

Im offended by that male chest two postes up.  lol j/k ApolloMaximus rocks.

this is something i can see someone getting offended over though lol  so siilly!

Someone prior mentioned that "renderosity is not my house...etc". Yes, that's true to a point. However rendo survives on people visiting their house, and despite the bullshit that karen spouts as to the reasons for the changes - nothing will change until the "outrage" that people feel effects rendos wallet. The underlying reason for any change in business is to increase the bottom line.
Yes, its rendo's house and if you want to use their house you have to abide by their rules. But the rules were once different. And it is THAT that bothers people. We once had the right to wear our shoes in the house, and now rendo won't allow us to. At the end, it is their right to do so, just as it is our right to leave or at the very least bitch about how we don't like the new rules - hoping that enough people will join in and force a change. Sadly, I don't see that happening. Some people don't "understand why the big deal", then I look at their gallery and understand why they don't get it. Im a published pinup artist - that is what I do, Im not into landscapes, or fractals or cutsypie pictures of fairys. And I would challenge anyone to say that, left to its own devices,  sexual pictures would be far more popular than any other of the aforementioned pics. And im not talking about the "hug club" pictures. Wherein, such and such posts a mediocre picture at best (Im not talking topic, im talking technical execution), dedicates said picture to someone and then receives endless praise usually ending with "hugs" or "kisses".  No offer of improvement, or truth anywhere to be found. And I suspect that is these people (I imagine they have lots of cats) that spend the most money in the marketplace and therefore have the biggest voice.

PerfectN,

Things always change that is a fact of life so there is no way to avoid change. This site and others like it have all  made changes over the years as things evolve.

Nudity is still allowed here as long as its within our TOS the only thing that has changed as far as this thread topic is considered is the THUMBNAIL of an image, NOT the full image.

The reasons Karen stated taken from the Front Page article are not "bullshit" reasons, its THE reasons, not made up, fabricated reasons but the absolute exact truth of why we felt the need to bring about this new policy. You may not like it or agree with it but I can assure you there are no "underlying" reasons that we didn't list. I really really really am amazed at the fact that there has to always be some conspiracy or underlying secret reason for changes according to a small minority of members. 

You may not like or choose to actually hear what I and other staff are saying but it doesn't change the fact that the real reasons are what they are and there is nothing more to it than that no matter how much you try and argue it.  It is what it is, all laid out on the table in the Front page article.

And one more thing, its a very generalized statement to make to say that the members that don't feel this new policy is a big deal are all members that according to you have galleries that either doesn't have any nudity in it or don't measure up (I'm assuming one of these reasons is  what you meant by that statement above)....If not, maybe you can clarify what you meant by ALL the ones saying its not a big deal after looking at their galleries makes you get why they say that. 

Let me clairify ... People that don't feel that the changes or policies are a big deal are generally people that don't post images that now violate the new terms.  People that post fractals will not be affected by the TOS.
Get it?
And yes, you and the other mods have made it painfully clear as to the reasons, let me be as equally clear. I run many companies. Changes are not implimented unless they will improve/ and/or effect the course of business and therefore INCREASE business. You are either naive or not privy to the MOTIVATING reasons as to why these changes were implimented. Yes. I get it - here are the reasons (assinine as they are) - BUT WHAT PROMPTED THE NEED FOR THESE CHANGES. WHAT WAS THE MOTIVATING PROMPT?
Did I claify it for you now?

I can assure you that I am not in the least bit "naive"....

I beg to differ on the statement that "generally" most members that don't see this as a big deal is because they don't post nudes.   I don't agree with that assessment at all. But we can agree to disagree on that one.
Its not "images" that may now violate the new policy we are discussing, its the thumbnails.

And as the Community Manager I was involved from beginning to end on the discussions that led us here. 
What prompted the need for the change were all the reasons listed as we have said over and over and over again. Its not what you want to hear so therefore you are choosing not to get it.  The motivating prompt were ALL the reasons that kept coming up time after time after time (consistency throughout the site with policies, the problems with images that couldn't be placed in the newsletter, the TOP page that is the landing page for the galleries, the growing number of in your face T&A in the thumbs, etc) and it became something that didn't need to be put off any longer.  We had to put it off awhile due to the conversion of the site but after that point, it was time to put this new policy in place.

Changes are not always about MONEY..We make changes on the Community side alot that have nothing to do with money. It may be about the look of the site, the members requests (and NO not buyers I'm talking about, just members that enjoy the site) that kind of reason. I don't know what kind of "companies" you ran but with this site there is of course the Marketplace side and the Community side, its a fine balance but every decision we make on the Community side isn't always about the money/bottom line. 

Did I "claify" for you now?  Lets be honest, for you it won't be clarified because you just don't agree with it and that is fine..It would be "naive" on my part or anyone on the staffs part to expect that everyone in this large member base would all see things the same way. I won't debate with the same question over and over again. Its been answered and whether or not you get it is up to you. We've answered honestly and tried to explain as best we can and in the end that is all we can do.

On a personal note (not speaking as an admin but just a person that enjoys art) I LOVE it when I see a thumbnail that is creatively done without all the T&A cause it makes me so anxious to peek at the full image that I know contains artistic nudity because of the flag. When all that can be done is a thumbnail with T&A in it, I don't care to really go any further because whats the point really? I've seen it.  Artistic nudity I like but I don't care to see a thumbnail that either reveals it all in the thumb or is just a T&A hit button

This is my personal opinion.

Some Admin finally...
Well that doesn't make it more official than any answers of some moderator but I will believe that  this thumbnail decision and the TOS were done with only the best intentions in mind.

If these were the motivations then it's fine. Not that I think the whole result will be good only because the intentions are. I no way. It's only good to know what the intentions are.

Besides the erudite "babbling" about economics and the sophisms of Karen this one made me laugh tho:

I can assure you that I am not in the least bit "naive"....

Reminded me of someone I know who said this pretty often and with some variations.
It's an embedded systems engineer. And now this "least bit" together with "Site Admin" brought up some memories... "well, even with the best ECC there will be BSOD's..."

No insult intended...
Actually I like pugnacious admins. Tempts me to flame all day long. :p

Maybe the reason for these discussions was that the intention appeared implausible after the short explanation in that Front Page article.
Most companies tell so many things for why they did something while soon after it becomes obvious what the true intentions were. The reaction is only based on some sort of traumatization, so to say.

The naive part could be to believe that everybody put so much faith into some words of some stranger that he accepts them as a truth.

Well said Zarat!
Regarding StaceyG statement:
"I can assure you that I am not in the least bit naiive" - never state what you can't imply.

Quote - Regarding StaceyG statement:
"I can assure you that I am not in the least bit naiive" - never state what you can't imply.

That is actually the funniest thing I have read in a long long time, lol....

Which further reinforces the statement.

::))))

I should unsubscribe from this thread, but I am interested in how long it will get. This is the first thread where cat pictures did nothing, LOL!

Quote - I should unsubscribe from this thread, but I am interested in how long it will get. This is the first thread where cat pictures did nothing, LOL!

True!  How about some pixie land? 

Maybe someone can do a morph, texture and clothes for Hiro of him- would fit, I think. Is that Daz's Prince Charming Hair or Bang Hair?

Actually, this is real from BBC Feb. 24, 2006.

Sudan man forced to 'marry' goat

**A Sudanese man has been forced to take a goat as his "wife", after he was caught having sex with the animal.**The goat's owner, Mr Alifi, said he surprised the man with his goat and took him to a council of elders.

They ordered the man, Mr Tombe, to pay a dowry of 15,000 Sudanese dinars ($50) to Mr Alifi.

"We have given him the goat, and as far as we know they are still together," Mr Alifi said.

Mr Alifi, of Hai Malakal in Upper Nile State, told the Juba Post newspaper that he heard a loud noise around midnight on 13 February and immediately rushed outside to find Mr Tombe with his goat.

"When I asked him: 'What are you doing there?', he fell off the back of the goat, so I captured and tied him up."

Mr Alifi then called elders to decide how to deal with the case.

"They said I should not take him to the police, but rather let him pay a dowry for my goat because he used it as his wife," Mr Alifi told the newspaper.

After that story, how can anyone worry about TOS or nudity in thumbnails?

Quote - I should unsubscribe from this thread, but I am interested in how long it will get. This is the first thread where cat pictures did nothing, LOL!

The cat pic part I don't get...
I mean if it's some thread about cat pics, then there would maybe some reactions to said pictures.
But this is not a thread about cats. - So what should cat pics actually do here?
Is there something behind "cat pictures" that goes beyond that's it is a picture showing a cat?
Like some geek code or such. Id est, would you expect dog-, bird- or car pictures doing anything different than cat pictures?
Could also be my english that fails on this one. I'm curious about the logic behind it tho... ^.^

:biggrin:

""Could also be my english that fails on this one. I'm curious about the logic behind it tho... ^.^""

The kids on the gaming forums have a term for it, it's called "+1"  or "<3 Juan" or to be specific "post farming".   That's all I can really gather about the incessant need to hijack any thread not of interest to said person - with post after post that people interested have to scroll past.

I like goats myself.
and hey while Im at it:

+1

The +1 format has been deprecated for some time, the new standard is:
postcount++;

well, I'm totally at sea. situation normal. and pixie-dude should dress to the left IMVHO. I hope they get the galleries all fixed up to the original complainant's satisfaction.

Thanks for enlighten me on that matter, jjroland and pjz99. :)
Seems I'm getting really old, lol...

postcount++ or +1 would also be good replacements for the "wonderful", "great work" and "excellent" comments on pictures.

Quote - I hope they get the galleries all fixed up to the original complainant's satisfaction.

I hope that as well. Sadly these threads end way to often in flame wars and all kind of insults.
Not that I'm an exception to this if a certain point is reached...

How the hell did this arguement degrade from dealing with bullshit rendo policies to pictures of cats and infeminate guys in green tights?

Dunno,...we just like cats?

Mylemonblue, that is one I haven't seen before LOL! too funny :laugh:

Totally awesome shark pic.. To those of you who obviously have not learned the time-honered Renderosity forum customs, cat pictures signify the thread has gone on too long and it is time to "give it a rest". Rules are rules, and if you do not like the rules go someplace else.

And it is that submissive "ill just accept it" type of attitute the prohibits change.
Rules are rules - If I dont like something Im going to bitch about it until I either want to leave or am forced to leave.
"Time honored" tradition" of indicating a thread has gone on too long - it too post pictures of cats. If you think the post has gone on too long - unsubscribe to it and post your cat pics in the gallery. As you said if you don't like something go somewhere else.
Unfortunately since input of any value has declined and the only ones adding anything related to this thread, seem to be jjroland, zarat and pjz unsubscribing seems to be the only thing left to do.
Continue to add your cat pictues ad infinatum.

Quote - And it is that submissive "ill just accept it" type of attitute the prohibits change.

No, actually site admin prohibits change, now that this policy is in place.  I don't know why they bother to entertain discussion, they clearly have no plans of changing it no matter what anyone thinks.  Bitch all you like, it won't get you anywhere.  I agree with you completely regarding the thumbnail rules, not so much for freedom of expression reasons but simply because under the current rules, it's impossible to see or post a thumbnail that accurately represents a flagged image.  At times I wish site admin would just come out and say what is painfully obvious, that they really don't care too much what individuals think, this is just how it's going to be until further notice.  Instead we have 5 page threads that are littered with cat pics and vitriol.  Whatever.  ^_^

I just deleted my images from the gallery. I uploaded an image yesterday, and nothing. People are looking for lusty images, and giving credit on that kinda stuff. I am not in that category. Not going to waste my time. Let them have it.