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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 14 4:48 pm)
Subject: Would a remapped V4 to V3 be a commercially viable proposition?
I'd buy - a complete package for me would include a remap of the V4 to V3 figure as well. When V3 was released, there was a remapped version which took V1/V2 textures, available at DAZ - Will Dupre mentions it in the DAZ thread that's linked above. It was distributed as a UVS file which could be decoded using UVMapper IIRC. I'd hope that DAZ's attitude would be the same; if it helps sell more V4s, then it's fine. ;)
Quote - Don't forget most of the main Daz figures are supported by UTC so if V4 is remapped to V3 textures any of the others can be converted for use on V4R.
Everything here is true, except for the name. I was thinking of calling the figure Victoria43. If anyone can think of a better, more imaginative name for the figure, I'm open to suggestions.
DPH
STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS
JoePublic:
Quote - What I'm talking about is that once we have a fully remapped V4, we can use this figure to build additional hybrids.
First we could put V4's head on V3's body.
Not trying to tell you that's a bad idea, but I really don't think it will be that simple. If you take the whole Head actor for one figure, and weld onto the other body, then I think chances are 50/50 that you'll have to add at least one vertex on one side or the other, right? This would break the morphs for that bodypart, and I'm pretty sure would also make the UVmap invalid. Even if you didn't have a problem there, it is very likely you'd have a pretty rough texture join along where you welded, at least in some spots. I'm not saying don't try, just that you're asking for something quite different from what Dave is looking at doing, remapping the whole figure with no provision for your Frankenstein project.
what about just putting the figures together and making the body of one invisable and the head of the other and leaving both necks to kind of merge together? love esther
I aim to update it about once a month. Oh, and it's free!
Quote - what about just putting the figures together and making the body of one invisable and the head of the other and leaving both necks to kind of merge together? love esther
You'll still probably have a rough texture join - OK for stills because you could concievably postwork it out, but useless for animation. For what you plan to do it'd probably be fine though (comics work).
Quote - > Quote - I was thinking of calling the figure Victoria43. (DPH)
That might cause trouble in a few years' time, when DAZ are wondering what to call the successor to Victoria 42. :lol:
We should all live so long! Halavai!
DPH
STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS
@pjz99: You're generally correct, but the process isn't that hard.
To make a hybrid you need new neck geometry, or at least a modified neck.
The head and the body meshes stay exacly the same.
If you look very closely at the picture I posted, you see a small discoloration around the middle of the neck.
It's because the head and the upper part of the neck of my "prototype" still use V4 textures while the body and lower part of the neck use V3 textures.
So, if I could use a V4 head that is already remapped for V3,
only a very small part of the (new) neck would actually have to be remapped.
The larger parts and the body and the head wouldn't have to be modified at all.
The far bigger problem is that the new neck needs custom made morphs so it matches with the default bodymorphs.
But with Cage and Spanki's morph transfer script this has become easier to do than ever.
Of course the original cr2 has to be modified so that it combines V4 head morphs with V3 body injection channels, and some joint parameters for the eyes and head will have to be changed a bit, too.
Attached Link: Matmatic Ultra Basic Skin by bagginsbill
you said "I have lots and lots of V3 textures (most of them free, but a dozen or so commercial) Only one of those makes (limited) use of the material room."
Methinks you need to learn to do this yourself as the people who do texture work seem to know next to nothing about skin shaders or intentionally don't use shaders because they want to maximize their coverage with P4, including DAZ. The new V4 shaders were actually written by face_off, and since he didn't want toj/couldn't use "realshader" script for SSS, he used one of my cheesy hacks I posted in the forums. Let's here it for cheesy hackery!
Anyway, I recently posted a thread in the Node Cult at RDNA showing how to use the standard V3 texture from DAZ to get a much better result. The technique is very simple, and while I did it with Matmatic, you can do it yourself manually. It only needs 3 nodes to get quite a nice effect. Adding a couple more spots nodes makes it even more interesting.
The technique can and should be applied to every texture you have. The details of the individual settings will vary with the overall tone of each texture and what you're trying to do with it, but the general shape of the shader should be the same in all cases.
You should check it out - follow the link.
The attached image demonstrates with the DAZ V3 high-res textures. There are lots more pictures in the linked thread.
Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)
When rendering in Poser (don't do that too much these days) I usually fix up the shaders. I'm rather partial to takezo(some number after the name) 's fake SSS setup, posted here about a year ago, it works pretty well with most lighting. Haven't gotten around to scripting it in a wacro yet, but replacing the texture maps in the shaders by hand isn't too much work.
I'll look into the link, it's always useful to learn about other ways to get results.
The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter
David -
How about Victoria 43?
"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan
Shire
Although it would annoy everyone when posting about her as they'd have to write the html code (since the FCK editor doesn't have a pulldown style for superscript.) So perhaps not :o)
"you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love." - Warsan
Shire
============================================================
The
Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
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I think it would sell! The possibility of more figure variance is ALWAYS a good thing! I'd say go for it!
I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act
together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An inconsistent hobgoblin is
the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!
One of the Japanese modellers has a set of instructions, and a revised neck mesh, to put the V2 head on the V3 body. I've used it, because V2 has some head morphs which V3 doesn't. If you're doing stuff with P5+ math nodes to generate materials without texturemaps, both V4 and V3 have awkward features in the UVmapping. Some things are still easier with the V2 mapping.
Sounds like a wonderful idea to me. If it has a reasonable price, I'd definitely buy it! I could use my collection of V3 textures on V4, some of which are never to be converted by their authors. (I understand their creativity brings them to think about something new than remaking old works... but each character is unique and I want them all!)
BTW, if you could write a tutorial about remapping textures, I'd be VERY grateful, as I have the same problem with Miki 1 and 2: the differences in mapping are really small, but nonetheless, textures for Miki1 won't work on 2nd version, and I just want to use Nubya on Miki!!!
It also opens up the possiblity of using your M3 and D3 maps on Vittorio 4. I am so looking forward to this.
STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS
Quote - dp, did anyone ever re-group the Posette remap to take V3 MATposes?
Yes, a few even sent me UV's that would make this possible; but I've decided not to post them for reasons of my health. I posted two threads (one in the Copywrite forum, and one here in the General forum) asking whether there would be a violation of copywrite if I were to do so. The heat generated from these threads made me decide to leave sleeping dogs lie
DPH
STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS
"The heat generated from these threads made me decide to leave sleeping dogs lie"
There is no reason not to add V3's grouping, too.
The DAZ EULA for V3 covers EVERYTHING about V3, and that includes her mapping style and the grouping.
Posette-V3 already IS a violation of DAZ' V3 EULA because the simple fact that she can use V3's textures already makes her a derivative work.
But DAZ doesn't mind, as long as she is only distributed properly encoded against V3.
In fact Posette-V3 has to be double encoded: Once against V3 because she uses her UV-pattern and secondly against Posette because she uses her geometry.
BTW, the V2 style mapping IS NOT covered by any EULA, that's why figures like Judy or NEAena or MAYA-doll don't need to be encoded against V2.
So regrouping Posette-V3 to accept V3 MAT's doesn't add any further legal problems.
As I said, Posette-V3 already IS a violation of DAZ EULA, so it simply doesn't matter if you add some more of V3's functionality.
DAZ is very generous in that regard: As long as you encode yourfinal product using V3 as the key, you can "borrow" as much from V3 as you like.
But encoding IS a MUST.
And in Posette-V3's case, DOUBLE ENCODING is a must, because she also uses Posette's geometry.
Refresh my memory, exactly what V3 geometry does Posette-V3 use?
I've been through it pretty thoroughly and haven't ran across any, I don't think you have either.
I'm one of those that sent DPH a V3 MAT ready Posette obj file. There's no trick to it, just load the obj file in a modeling program and rename the appropriate parts. Anyone should be able to do it. Just keep in mind that the names are case sensitive.
Seems like there are some folk that are carrying quite a grudge against David. I think it's neat that he took the time to pull it off and am looking forward to the V4 version. Put me down for a copy when released.
You obviously completely misread my post.
Where do I claim that Posette-V3 contains V3 geometry ?
She can use V3 maps, and THAT ALREADY makes her a derivative work according to the DAZ' EULA.
Plain and simple.
So, as she already IS a derivate work of V3, it would be stupid to NOT include V3's grouping also.
Because a Posette-V3 that can only use V3's textures but not V3's MAT's isn't "more legal" than a Posette-V3 that can use both.
As long as she is properly encoded, DAZ doesn't mind which parts from V3 you "borrow".
But you must understand that her mapping and grouping and joints and morphs and general shape are equally protected "parts" of V3 and not just the "raw" geometry.
That's at least what the V3 EULA says.
I believe DPH used the F202 Dollie UV's.
This has all been hashed and rehashed in the L2V3 issue (Sixus1)
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2165790&page=1
Although the main issue there was joint parameters and body shape, the mapping was touched upon although unanswered.
AFAIK, the mapping issue has NEVER been tested, therefore can not be assumed as fact. Lot's of opinions though.
I'm one of the folks that are against this idea because it's stupid and a cheap way out for people to swap textures from one to the other. I have nothing against David. Id be aginst it no matter who did it. I have V3/V4 bases and Posette. The textures to me dont look right. Not out of the box it doesn't. V3 on Posette looks stupid. (MHO)
I can't imagine how this isn't against Daz's copyright. I can't imagine why Daz would allow him to sell this or anyone else for that matter who decided to remap to me it feels like a form of stealing. I just dont see the point in it and never will.
Seems to be a lot of work. Why not just make your own textures? Why remap? I dont get it? Make your own textures for each of the figures and sell them?
I cant see paying money for it. When I can go buy textures for these figures anyway. I'll get flamed for this but I don't care. I spent good money on these figures & their textures. You want to cheat and swap textures on figs, feel free. I won't buying it.
Good luck.
Content Advisory! This message contains nudity
@Dajadues
You're right. V3 on Posette looks stupid
Of course... :glare: some stupid advantages: extra-short-stupid-render times being a low-poly figure, stupid recover of a great (and stupid) figure, new (and stupid) possibilities of Posette under P6 and P7 impossible to imagine when she was released with P4...
A V4 remapped to take V3 textures? Another stupid idea. Over all if you (like meh) are owner of hundred of excellent V3 textures and you has the ridiculous (and stupid) idea of working with all them without buying more toons of new ones. Stupid thing, over all if your runtime is multiple (4 runtimes in my case), with more than 30 GB, and it's a way to re-utilize all your stuff
I have Posette, V2, V3, V4, SheFreak, SP1, SP3. TheGirl, Aiko3... and I hope to be able to use my textures with all them at least until Poser10. So welcome to ideas like dphoadley's
But of course, I'm stupid :tt2:
CASETTE
=======
"Poser isn't a SOFTWARE... it's a RELIGION!"
Swapping textures on a figure is CHEATING? My god! I've heard it all, now! RTE encoding is permissable with DAZ. You HAVE to have the original figure, or you can't use any derivitives. You are free to believe anything you want, but I strongly disagree with you on this, Dajadues.
I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act
together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An inconsistent hobgoblin is
the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!
We're all stupid I guess. I guess not only do we have to be users, but designers and texture makers too? Look, I dont know how to build a stove, but I can cook. Just because I can use posette (or v3 or whatever) and not make a texture doesn't make me inferior......... stupid.
Its all be stated so I won't reiterate. I guess we just have to keep buying..... in some people's opinions, until our bank accounts burst. I suppose then there will be joy and happiness in the world.
If he doesn't want to use it, fine by me, more for me to love far as I'm concerned. I don't see anything wrong with it as I already OWN the base figures, and tada, the textures I plan to use (yes i paid for them...... was that stupid?) and I want to use them on other figures and stretch the life out of them.
Kudos David, don't let the turkeys get you down.
just to say- i sometimes sketch my images first (which pretty much always means they're better), and that means that my main figure(s) will have a specific look before i choose a figure. anything that makes that choice simpler, easier and more accurate to my vision is a very welcome addition. i have several textures of types rare to v3, not guaranteed for v4, and non-existant for posette. i find when i look at my sketches, i see different figures with various tonal combinations (e.g., pale skin and black hair, pure deep dark skin, golden tan with pale blonde, etc.). in the past, i've mostly used v3 because i knew i could find the right texture for her. making it so i can use the appropriate figure would be better. i do this in my spare time, and i'm often pushing poser (or d|s) to its limits. with hours spent on setting up the scene, each test render taking as long as an hour, and me being technically deficient but picky about lights, i find that i mostly don't have time to learn how to texture figures, and certainly not time to learn on a figure with as many seams as v4. i'd love to get into it at some point, but even then, i doubt it will be for every picture. and i suspect i'll start off very unrealistic.
i see nothing wrong, misguided, cheating or unintelligent with being interested in something that expands the functionality of textures i already paid for, to a figure i've already paid a lot for. especially when i expect to pay a lot more for future morphs.
I hate the concept of disposable art. As if art works on a timelimited basis. Good today, yesterday's fad. Some of Poserdom's very best textural artists have produced phenomenal textures for V3. These will in all likelihood never be duplicated. But as time moves on, more and more people will move to V4. Granted the V3 textures can still be used on the other Mil3 figures, until they're upgraded.
So works of art, like Morris's Miss April, Sydd's Shahara or Ravenessa, Danae's Milla... what, they just become disposable trash?
I cannot see why this idea is so threatening to some people. If you've purchased V4, you will likely buy new works of art designed for V4, but with a remapped V4 you'll manage to snatch some true masterpieces off of the (eventual) virtual trash heap. That's a good thing.
And as for the legalities... DAZ has never, to my knowledge, been a slouch in the protecting their rights. If they aren't complaining...?
Quote -
So works of art, like Morris's Miss April, Sydd's Shahara or Ravenessa, Danae's Milla... what, they just become disposable trash?
I cannot see why this idea is so threatening to some people. If you've purchased V4, you will likely buy new works of art designed for V4, but with a remapped V4 you'll manage to snatch some true masterpieces off of the (eventual) virtual trash heap. That's a good thing.
And as for the legalities... DAZ has never, to my knowledge, been a slouch in the protecting their rights. If they aren't complaining...?
I totally agree with your points of view!! Also, David DID start a thread over at the DAZ forums and I think Will or one of DAZ's boys popped in and didn't mention anything like it was wrong or what ever. I think David is smart enough to know that RTEncoding is going to be the way to go. 
---Wolff On The Prowl---
@ Tiari
That is truly an exceptional piece of work, very lovely. I especially love the vulnerable eyes.
STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS
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I think V4 was made in Modo.
Modo had a video of Modo unwrapping a Characters head 2D UV map with in seconds.
Very Impressive.
zBrush,C4D auto maps and you paint right on the mesh.
zBrush maps where not like 2D maps.
C4D's auto maps are not really 2D Ready but ya can tweak them manually like in UVMapper.
RorrKonn
http://www.Atomic-3D.com
============================================================
The Artist that will fight for decades to conquer their media.
Even if you never know their name ,your know their Art.
Dark Sphere Mage Vengeance