Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2700199&page=10

A sad case of overacting.
Laslo

I just read the last two pages. No wonder it's closed to new posts.
Nit-picking and hair-spliting never achieves much IMO.

haven't the foggiest why they keep letting that troll post its rants, other than to give us a good example of what's wrong around here. seems like the tiniest little thing is enuff to set it off. :lol:

Quote - I just read the last two pages. No wonder it's closed to new posts.
Nit-picking and hair-spliting never achieves much IMO.

Still, it seems to me that one should eliminate the offending comments and not the entire thread with all the good info in it.
It just doesn't make sense.
If someone post something that is against the rules (or good taste), it should not cause dozens of other people to suffer the consequences as a collective punishment, ne ces't pais?
Again, the thread had great art and good info. How will people access these?
Laslo

Sorry I didn't see 10 pages of hardcore info there, I saw maybe five pages of good info before it desolved into personal attack after personal attack for just as many pages. if a thread goes for 5 pages without a civil word being spoken I think it has lost all semblance of being a helpful thread.

I can see this thread is off to a GREAT start!  :rolleyes:

Quote - I can see this thread is off to a GREAT start!  :rolleyes:

I am sorry - I am not uncivil or controversial. I just want to know what the principle is behind this closure. I do belive that personal attacks should be censured - I am just curious whether it should take the form of banning the offending comments or the form of a collective punishment.
If the latter was the case, any miscreant could shut down any thread at will - which just does not seem right.
I would politely ask anyone who cares to answer this post to be as measured as I am and stick to the subject matter without getting into personal attacks.
Laslo

Seemed very obvious to me, many pages of "you're a poopiehead" "you drink pee" and presto, thread became locked.  Just because you're allowed to advertise your product here to the extent you already are - and imo, it's a lot, but they tolerate it so whatever - doesn't mean any thread containing a reference to it is holy ground.  Karen did her job, and imo the only thing she could have done better was to have been more aggressive about it and less tolerant.

Quote - Seemed very obvious to me, many pages of "you're a poopiehead" "you drink pee" and presto, thread became locked.  Just because you're allowed to advertise your product here to the extent you already are - and imo, it's a lot, but they tolerate it so whatever - doesn't mean any thread containing a reference to it is holy ground.  Karen did her job, and imo the only thing she could have done better was to have been more aggressive about it and less tolerant.

I am sorry that I brought up the subject. It is really true that people here are simply incapable of NOT making anything into a personal attack (see above). Your note, alas, is not addressing my question: censor comments or entire threads?
I am off this thread because I don't see a chance of a measured and dignified discussion to develop about the guiding (and hopefuly democratic) principles of these forums.
Lesson learned.

um what personal attack? you intimated that the thread was locked due to overreacting (I assume that's what you meant by overacting, or did you mean that someone was hamming it up?)and people were simply disagreeing with your assertion that the thread deserved to be saved.

Quote - > Quote - I just read the last two pages. No wonder it's closed to new posts.

Nit-picking and hair-spliting never achieves much IMO.

Still, it seems to me that one should eliminate the offending comments and not the entire thread with all the good info in it.
It just doesn't make sense.
If someone post something that is against the rules (or good taste), it should not cause dozens of other people to suffer the consequences as a collective punishment, ne ces't pais?
Again, the thread had great art and good info. How will people access these?
Laslo

I have to disagree with you there. The thread still exists, it's just been closed to new posts, so people woud hopefully get the message and stop the mudslinging. People can still find it and read it, so the info has not been lost. Anyone wanting info on faceshop can find the thread (search for the info)
You didn't expect the thread to stay on the front page forever, did you?
Yes, personal attacks, mudslinging and pointless argumentative combativeness is against the terms of service here, AFAIK. So if you have a high interest in your cause or product being promoted, you'll have to rise to the occasion and do it in a civil manner.
I'm sure you already know it's a really good business and PR practice to not get into mudslinging, right? Even this thread, you started in a rather combative manner. It's not going to get you very far.

Ah, but there is your mistake.  This forum is NOT a democracy (you'll learn). ;)  The site is run by Bondware and is, first and foremost, a commercial site with the Marketplace.  There is a TOS and we really don't get a say in how the forums work in such regards.

One good thing to note: unlike some forums where threads might be removed completely, at least the locked threads here remain viewable despite the lack of further posting.  It might happen here on ocassion but probably only under really bad circumstances - say, a thread based purely on personal attack might be removed.

Disgareement or disapproval, itself, is not a personal attack or a valid reason to lock or delete a thread. Although the thread wasn't friendly, I was suprised it was locked. Far worst threads have gone on for pages and pages and pages and days and days and days.

A common issue is that in the end, a thread should be locked to prevent harm to a member, not as a way to silence an issue or teach lessons to others. Forums are for discussion.
Locking threads that contain more negative participation thancan be controlled seems reasonable

Mant times I have seen moderators tell members that others are free to have their opinions whether they like it or not. It is easy to see things differently when the tables are turned. Personally, I was once told by a mod here she thought I needed to be taught a lesson and left a thread open. Whatever. Petty victory. Small reward.

This does highlight why moderators and admin volunteers must be careful not to use their authority or capabilities to impose their own personal opinion via granted authority. That is why people have children and pets. :)

Rather is is best to simply moderate and not participate. A hard thing to do but it avoids conflict of interest. This is not directed at Karen in any way, but there is much discussion off the boards that many moderators in Poserdom need to be rotated out of service at many store sites.

Read thread, Karen was right to lock it. It devolved into downright NASTY personal
attacks. To be blunt, I couldn't believe what I was reading. Karen, I do not envy you
your job. If I had to deal with stuff like that, I'd go postal in short order. :)

Greywolf

Quote - Seemed very obvious to me, many pages of "you're a poopiehead" "you drink pee" and presto, thread became locked.  Just because you're allowed to advertise your product here to the extent you already are - and imo, it's a lot, but they tolerate it so whatever - doesn't mean any thread containing a reference to it is holy ground.  Karen did her job, and imo the only thing she could have done better was to have been more aggressive about it and less tolerant.

Poopiehead? ... you drink pee? ....... ROTFLMAO !!! :lol:

Thanks for the chuckle, I needed that ... life is too short - trust me , I know from personal experience.

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

P.S. I checked the [X] "Language" box because I wasn't sure if  "Poopiehead" qualified or not. ... ;=]

Hi Laslo!

I edited your thread title to reflect reality more closely...

But I guess you won't see this, since you said you were leaving the thread. Oh well, I shall explain on for the benefit of anyone else.

Threads are locked when they degenerate so far as to become useless. This is to prevent forum disruption and innocent bystanders getting sucked into the mudslinging.

I am personally in favour of leaving threads in the forum once locked, if they contain useful and relevant info. Hence, the thread you refer to is still fully accessible and will remain so.

Folks - thanks for the support. Thread locking is not something we want to do frequently because it kind of defeats the purpose of a forum,  i.e. communication. I think most regulars know and appreciate that we all try to walk a line between total "order" (i.e. suppression of any controversial talk) and outright chaos.

Some comments might have been removed. I see a few specific people going at it on page nine. I have seen worse go on much longer and much harsher. We all have.

I think the problem in the forums has many heads; with a stacking effect. Now I do understand and advocate free speech. I also understand the need for rules, but the intrigues and sematics have never been effective. 

There are many great moderators and admins for sure, some seldom seen. I appreciate locking a thread is a quick fix, but why is the clone, thread spammers, and troll crowd being indulged for these many years? It has occassionally seemed they are indulged when their postings are deemed "useful".

I do understand some find these people  intimidating for fear of being mass trolled. But perhaps consistently dealing specifically with the clone accounts, trolls, and mentally ill that only post for the controversy and giggle factor might be a better long term solution.

I just don't understand why some threads can go on for days and pages with threats, insults, etc etc and some are quickly snapped shut, not that this one was. I speak generally and not neccesarily specifcally about the FacePro thread.

Crosspost Karen. 

It did seem the whole point, at least at one point, was to engage you and a few others specifically for sport. It was a lot to read, perhaps that is just how it seemed.

Anton, all I can say is that decisions are made on a case-by-case basis, with input from Admins if necessary.

I can tell you that I've been bullied, harassed, stalked and threatened by experts in the past; hence I find forum trolls about as intimidating as my kittens.

Crosspost Anton! :lol:

Yeah there was a lot to read and yes, I think there was a specific agenda there.

**Quote - I can tell you that I've been bullied, harassed, stalked and threatened by experts in the past; hence I find forum trolls about as intimidating as my kittens.[/quote]

Hey, don;t talk about kittens that way. :)

You know, with this latest upgrade, an ignore user feature would bee really handy. :)

"I AM NOT INTIMIDATING!!"

"Just very wet and annoyed..."

lol. One more.

ARGH! OK, that IS intimidating! :lol:

OMG Karen, that kitty is tooo cute LOL!

And Anton, that kitty is flat out frightning..EEEK! :laugh:

If some folks think thread locking is distasteful, I suspect you'd like selective post-deleting even less.

One more Karen...............well ... I think it is a cat anyway. Not entirely sure to be honest. Anyone else know what the hell this thing might be?

Ok guys, there are always two sides to every situation. I think it is great that you mods leave threads open after they have been locked so that we can still read them and benefit from the information they contain.

I do however also clearly see laslov's point here. Effectively when one or two (or ten) people come along and start derailing a thread or posting questionable or downright antagonistic and rude material there is obviously a problem.
 
The thing is though that when a thread is locked for this reason it kind of sucks because it destroys the flow and merit of the discussion that was taking place originally. It also prevents the discussion from ever continuing or evolving within the bounds or its original context.

Normally I suppose this isn't a huge problem but think of the threads that are started to discuss technical problems or techniques. They become very broken and disjointed and people end up having to scour the forums to get the complete picture or information they are after.

As per usual, just my $50 (damned inflation )

Quote -

One more Karen...............well ... I think it is a cat anyway. Not entirely sure to be honest. Anyone else know what the hell this thing might be?

Hey Anton...  I think it's one of the zombie dogs from Resident Evil!!!!  Or a Chernobyl SPCA adoptee....  

The difficulty wiht selective deleting is, if someone posts an inflammatory post, and is replied to by another member, and THEN the original post is deleted, then the ongoing communication in the thread gets disjointed. I much prefer the system of locking down a thread, but leaving those comments there for posterity. If nothing else, it allows everyone else to see what ridiculous fools those antagonistic posters have made of themselves, and to take any future postings they make with a certain objectivity. IF the poss were deleted, we'd never know who the trolls were out there, would we?

Just my tuppenorth.

jonTheCelt

Unfortunately there's no stopping thread drift unless we totally censor threads to the point of disallowing any free discussion beyond the original poster's point. Once threads drift they can go anywhere, good, bad or ugly.  

Many people, including folks posting to this thread, have derailed topics in the past and will likely do so again. Original Posters have no control over how a thread will go and should never expect to have such control in any open discussion. The closest thing to a control allowed the original poster is that they can ask that their thread be locked once their original question has been answered. Beyond that, only a breach of the TOS will get something closed.

Although it's a shame that a thread should be locked, I agree with it ,if it should stop the sad drongos from posting any further comments. Yeah, I think we've all had a little gripe on here at some point, but when it got to the stage where they were personally insulting Karen, that was it for me. Now they were obviously in disagreement, but you can tell from the way people post that they are using a disagreement just to boost there sad little egos.
You can talk about democracy all you like, but I'm willing to make sacrifices on this issue if it gets shut of morons who are just out to antagonize people. How sad must one's life be to come on a forum & have a continued rant with someone over something which really isn't worth it.
Whether you agreed with Karen or not, I thought she was tolerent in this issue & handled it well.

Actually ... it almost looks like da NaySayGuy ............ after a night of wild partyin' at the "U." :cursing:

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Hey doc, stick to the damned point!

eeek! at geep!!

isn't that thing what pops out of Gizmo if he gets wet?

that thing has got smoke coming out of its head and is eating its own foot!!

can you imagine trying to get the TV remote back, if that is sitting on it.

That's not smoke Vince, it's the poor creature's last 3 remaining grey hairs!

I thinked dat he wuz ... duh!

Hay mehbee dat look lahk mah littlel brother jus bak frum da wars.

Ah dun't thinks Ah'm gunna use him dentist thou ... yuk!
 
 

Personally I think thread drift is fun.

Two points I want to make:

1. Please stop posting pictures of my mother in law without permission.

2. Poser sux. Discuss.

For the humor impaired, this is an explicit notification that this posting is completely a joke and is meant to be read with a smile.

LOL bb, it seems we have to put disclaimers everywhere nowadays! Sheesh.

Quote - One more Karen...............well ... I think it is a cat anyway. Not entirely sure to be honest. Anyone else know what the hell this thing might be?

It's the late Sam a Chinese crested. he was a 3 time winner of the worlds ugliest dog contest.
http://samugliestdog.com/
http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/uglydog.asp

To put the matter bluntly: Karen is one of the best Mods in the business.  And that's why she gets grief from some.

When I see an utterly unjustified, behind-the-scenes coordinated personal attack going on: I'm not the type to sit idly by and watch it happen.  I never have been that way.  If some wish to consider that as 'trolling'......it isn't.  It's a response to trolls.

Yes ...!!!***
Kudos for Karen ... YAY !!!!!!  *** :thumbupboth:
cheers,
dr geep
;=]

I like thread drifts, most of the times they are entertaining... Especially when people start posting kitty pics  :)
Those poor dogs, they are an actual breed that's supposed to look like that! What the heck were the breeders thinking??? :blink:

Awww guys, you are all making me

I need cheering up today (got some kind of horrible stomach bug and a bangin' headache), so thanks

Man I wish these smilies weren't all ugly-ass now :lol:

Awww, sends Karen a flurry of fuzzy-hugz x's and o's
[looking over my sholder hoping that won't get me in trouble]

The smilies are complementing that poor dog at the moment ;)

Yes ...!!!***
LOTS MORE Kudos for Karen ... YAY (again)  !!!!!!  ***

Keep up the good work and don't let the  ******** get ya down.

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Karen deserves the support of the community.  She works hard at what she does -- both publicly and behind the scenes.  She's the type of individual who is of inestimable value to any team, and who is a tremendous help to her co-workers.....in ways that most people never see.

Perhaps Karen would be honored by becoming a featured character in Dr. Geep's comics. 

:lol: (ugly smilie added for emphasis)

Well, I know Karen in RL so I can attest that she's a proper diamond.

We used to work for the same shower of bastards company, which is how we got to know each other.  Hell of a shock when we discovered we'd been communicating in the forums but didn't even know we worked in the same building.  :lol:

You know, that's what I'm beginning to love about this forum.. the drama, the killer humor, the drift, the cat pics... but you couldn't pay me enough to switch places with any of the mods here. Poser mods deserve combat pay.  Oh... wait... they get all this humor.. does that count as a fringe benefit? ;)