Quote - You do most of us no justice if you call us the Poser crowd....

I used "crowd" in the sense that Swift uses "mob." But I was referrring to the "crowd" element in the Poser community, not suggesting that only "crowd types" use Poser. After all, I use Poser myself.....

Frankly, this "Fool me once, make it a hobby" mentality is pervasively American if not built into the human genome. How else explain the ability of the American people to go back to the same lying, hypocritical thugs, time and time again, like abused children hugging their abusers, confident that this time, this final time, things will be different?

... and you think that's unique to America? 

"Frankly, this "Fool me once, make it a hobby" mentality is pervasively American if not built into the human genome. How else explain the ability of the American people to go back to the same lying, hypocritical thugs, time and time again, like abused children hugging their abusers, confident that this time, this final time, things will be different?"

I think he musta meant pervasively human, since the poser maretplace spans every continent on the globe. And after reading that, I thought about all the Japanese created digital cameras that didn't quite fit the bill properly, and are replaced with new models every 3 months or so.

Truly though, that slam aimed at Americans is quite offensive. I would think the Poster wouldn't own any american produced items since they are so inferior... must not be running Windows or a Mac either, since they are American made.

it's most unfortunate for anyone to criticise the americans as if they were some monolithic herd of clones. I can assure y'all that they're not. we don't see the americans here criticising citizens of other nations. perhaps we should follow their lead in regard to tolerance of others.

Actually I always find it amazing that "Americans" are always lumped together as if there is "ONE" mentality and culture. Look at the size of countries in Europe... Germany, Italy, Poland, England.. and look at the diversity of cultures.

You see MUCH the same thing over here in America, just unified under one label.

The "cultures" of Inner City New York, Orlando, Florida, Hollywood, California, and Maine are all excellent examples of culture differences because of the sheer size of our country. There are local "customs" that are not the same from place to place, and you could easily spot and place a picture from each location, just as you could place a picture from Germany, England, or Italy.

Quote - Actually I always find it amazing that "Americans" are always lumped together...

I was referring to the "lumping together" that occurs every four years when we (American-born, me) elect a President so he can bankrupt the Treasury, send our children off to die for his big business cronies, wreck our schools.... Oh well, never mind.

M

.......must.......not.........type..........

:b_grin:

::: ignoring the American/Bush bashing fool above :::

Regarding Cararra render speed....I did an intensive one-month trial with C5. I found that indeed a 'low quality quick render' with nothing fancy is lightening quick, but that as you work you way back to Poser quaity with skin, closup and soft shadows, render time returns to Poser speed, as someone else noted above may also be true for C6.

::::: Opera :::::

if I'm not mistaken, Political diatribe is foridden in the forums, so you'll have to peddle your wares elsewhere.

Pulling the thead back before someone Godwin's it, this is pretty much another of the 'It's a Modeller! Poser is Dead!' masturbatory round robins that pop up. Poser's renderer may be 'slow'....but when you start pushing all the floats around that shadows, hires textures, ambient or GI, and any of the AA schemes creates, you can bring -any- renderer to its knees. I hope the C-heads enjoy the new release; it still has the same spastic dsylexic monkey designed interface. If the render nodes for P7Pro peform like I think they will, there may be a serious re-evaluation of the Poser REYES render engine as a useable option. From my work with Vue, it's remote Rendercows bury the application in render speed; they don't have the GUI handles to work around, or the library access code or the undo system. Just a minimal port display GUI, and the render engine with a TCP/IP interface. If P7Pro uses a similar scheme (and considering their relationship with eon, and the modularity of that scheme), animators could see maybe a doubling of renderspeed on a remote node. And look at the way they implemented the usage of multiple cores; tile rendering. Which means that you could easily alter that to use remote nodes for tile rendering, as well (as in having 3 or 4 computers chewing on a still instead of one). We shall see......

Heck, if EF would switch Poser's renderer over to Vue's, that would be a big, VERY big selling point now that you bring that up.  If only.

Would yo ube willing to pay a few hundered dollars MORE for poser if they did?

Odds are, that's how much the license would cost.

Has anyone reading this thread got a comment on Viewport Response in C6?

When I was testing C5, I found viewport response miserable compared to Poser. For instance, moving the animation slider was like molassas. Claims have been made that this is improved now.
 
I find the viewport response in Poser7 satisfactory even with full shaded mode with up to about 200,000 polys. After that, it gets progressively more sluggish and I have to switch off to cartoon or wire mesh for posing. One of my big reasons for moving to 3DSMax (but waiting to purchase for the next reslease in October) is the promise of fast viewport response, even with many hundreds of thousands of polys. Also, PoserPro....perhaps there will be an improvement in viewpoint response with 64-bit liberating more RAM, etc.

::::: Opera :::::

Quote - Would yo ube willing to pay a few hundered dollars MORE for poser if they did?

I would have before I'd spent three thousand on Cinema 4D, sure.  Not now.

Never let it be said that you can't download Carrara 6 Pro and its content with a 56k connection. It will take about 35 hours if you aren't disconnected. I did some test renders. There are odd, jagged edges on some of the included props that I'd like to eliminate. Perhaps it's possible, or maybe the spline models just weren't saved at an adequate level. I've just begun to tinker. Carrara must be the smallest place in the 3d universe because the microscopic Poser imports are giants in comparison to Carrara content.

"Heck, if EF would switch Poser's renderer over to Vue's, that would be a big, VERY big selling point now that you bring that up.  If only."

That would for sure mean I wouldn't buy Poser anymore. I do not like Vue's rendering engine at all and when it comes to speed, using a single core pc with no other pc's attached as I do, the Vue rendering engine is much slower then the Poser rendering engine.

There are some people complaining about Poser's rendering engine(s), but the are scores of people happily rendering away with it, never complaining. I'm one of the majority who actually likes the Poser rendering engine, it may be slow at times, but so is the Carrara or Vue or Bryce rendering engine when I do the same with those as I do in Poser. I actually do like the final results the poser rendering engines do give and Vue, Bryce or Carrara simply cannot achieve the same look and feel and it would be a real shame if EF decides to switch to Vue's engine.

Vue's renderer is generally slower than Poser, but it has the advantage of more realistic lights and shadows. Unfortunately, it has nothing like what faceoff and bagginsbill have contributed to Poser for realism in skin.

If you turn down quality low enough, and use unrealistic-enough lighting, you can render very quickly in Vue.  It takes math to do global illumination, which is one big reason Vue renders slower - it does GI, Poser does not.  It does area lights also.  And if it were integrated into Poser, all the shader support would be 100% native - but it'd never happen, just a pipe dream.

I never said the Poser renderer didn't produce excellent quality (with the needed work); just that the single render engine scheme was too slow for use as an actual end stage. The network rendering, if it performs as I hope, could change that. The real question will be how much of a system hog the remote nodes will be; if they can run in tandem with Vue's Rendercows, then those of us with any kind of renderfarm would have the ability to dual render scene elements for later compositing, or two separate scenes at the same time (and yes, I do know that the master workstation would have to be a MASTER to handle that kind of memory load. It's also about upgrade time again.... >:D ). The only problem with the Poser/Vue integration idea is that one shader scheme would pretty much have to be scrapped. A lot of the compatibility issues there are due to the translations that have to occur, as the app's shader schemes are fundamentally incompatible. Aside from the fact that one would just about have to buy the other out for it to ever happen....

Attached Link: Realtime character animation in DAZ studio

I actually own the older C4PRO
and the outdoor stuff come im still seeing in CP6 is nowhere near
the realism that I can get in  my Vue6 easel

im not even talking "ecosystems" just the depth  and realism o the skies and horizons. etc

I would also add that ones software choices are always affected by ones hardware
capability and workflow,subject matter preferences.
for me having 2 fairly capable MACs configured indenticaly has been
a big help. and as a rare poser user who has lost all interest  in  Organic figures
this issue of Shaders( skin&hair) is rather moot for my output.

this is why Vue 6 "easel" which imports poser animations  is sufficient
for my  vast outdoor  landscape renders and Cinema 4D takes care of all other  types including ,obviously, toon renders.

on the issue of viewport responsiveness if one are truly interested in rendering alot of animations in rich environments one should really start to consider rendering separate layered elements and compositng them in post.
none of the big CG houses cram everything in one scene and try to work with the characters  in there ,not ILM not WETA (LOTR) no one.

BTW DS 1.7 has a neat tool for real time Character animation

Cheers

So far I have not been impressed by the outdoor scene renders (with no figures )ive seen posted by C6pro users. I'm hoping there are untapped resources lurking in the program somewhere to propel it beyond a Bryce level of low quality.

"So far I have not been impressed by the outdoor scene renders (with no figures )ive seen posted by C6pro users."

Neither am I, it's obvious that DAZ has focussed way to mcuh on copying Poser features in C6, instead of improving the outdated landscapes features. It seems like DAZ is spending al it's energy on trying to take poser out of the market and winning poser users over to their side, instead of expanding into new areas and generating new users.

"I'm hoping there are untapped resources lurking in the program somewhere to propel it beyond a Bryce level of low quality. "

Don't count on it, it seems like DAZ lacks serious innovation, inspiration and knowledge to do so. All the added was a scene wizard and a bit of ocean and to be perfectly honest the old C5 plugins do a better job. The scene wizard seems to be a waste of time also. They're still using hopelessly outdated materials and vegetation in C6.

I'm sure C6 will generate some nice funds for DAZ, even after lot's have returned C6, but I'm afraid all these new resources will only be used to try and gain  the upper hand in the poser software market, instead of getting C6 uo to date. It's very clear what DAZ want to use C6 for...... independancy from EF and another application to push their content. It's a shame, they own such cool applications and yet fail to utilize, modernize and innovate them.

it's obvious that DAZ has focussed way to mcuh on copying Poser features in C6, instead of improving the outdated landscapes features. Frankly, they didn't even draw on their Daz Studio know how to get Carrara 6 Pro to include the hair props when a pz3s is opened. I barely know how to use Carrara at this point, but I can safely say that it handles Poser files far worse than Daz Studio.

Correction, some hair props don't show up, even though the name of the prop appears in the items list. Some do show up.

Quote - Would yo ube willing to pay a few hundered dollars MORE for poser if they did?

Odds are, that's how much the license would cost.

Why bother w/ Vue's? It's nice, but 3Delight is far, far cheaper, and does everything Firefly does (and then some) - much faster. BTW - yes, 3Delight has Ambient Occlusion and such (and it can be implemented in D|S - pwSurface does a little of that w/ AO now).

--

Quote - Carrara must be the smallest place in the 3d universe because the microscopic Poser imports are giants in comparison to Carrara content.

That may be a pre-scaling thing. Poser meshes are typically 1% the size of a std. per-unit size in most modellers, so C6 may accidentally be overcompensating for that (or more likely there's a switch flipped wrong in the import scaling section of your setup :) ).

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Quote - If you turn down quality low enough, and use unrealistic-enough lighting, you can render very quickly in Vue.  It takes math to do global illumination, which is one big reason Vue renders slower - it does GI, Poser does not.

Indeed - I love GI; and Vue 5 renders (on the Mac anyway) runs at a fairly respectable speed, even on my G5 rig. OTOH, it's a one-way shot - once you import, you'd better really like the pose and morphs...

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Quote - The only problem with the Poser/Vue integration idea is that one shader scheme would pretty much have to be scrapped

Keep Vue's - it actually makes sense when you use it, w/o all the spaghetti. Opinions ab't Poser shaders aside, it also makes technical sense to keep the shader that already works w/ the renderer.

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Quote - I actually own the older C4PRO
and the outdoor stuff come im still seeing in CP6 is nowhere near
the realism that I can get in  my Vue6 easel

You're talking ab't the diff between Vue's primary focus (environments) and Carrara's (more towards animation and rendering, with a whole suite of other features included). C1.1 (my latest version) has no such thing as a terrain generator or atmospheres, etc.

Honestly - if Vue had a better importer and a way to actually composite/morph/pose figures in-app? I would've jumped that way ages ago. As it is, they don't.

--

Me, I'll plonk down for a copy of C6 when time actually permits, then play with it a bit. Until then, I have no judgements on the proggie itself, though if it does what the feature list says it does, it'll be sufficient for me to delete Poser from my disks; something that hasn't occurred for ab't 7+ years now.

/P

Something positive I can say about Carrara 6 Pro. It appears to have a full animation system, with separate key frame timelines for each moved or altered part or prop. Also, once you load your Runtime folder into the Content browser, the Poser content works pretty well. Oddly, for me, Carrara seems to support Poser's pz3 files a lot better than the Daz Studio files which will crash the program.

Quote - Unfortunately, it has nothing like what faceoff and bagginsbill have contributed to Poser for realism in skin.

one word - SkinVue :)
Provided you have at least Vue x Infinite

... and you don't use a 64-bit OS (last time I checked anyway).

Btw: Apollo works in C6. 

I am going to start a thread in the Carrara forum to help gather usage info if anyone wants to add info

Here is the link.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2711492

No trolls please. :)

*... and you don't use a 64-bit OS (last time I checked anyway).

*That does still seem to be the case.   

Quote - " .... I registered my C5P at DAZ less than two weeks ago, giving them my serial number to verify and succeeding to the point that I qualified for a free upgrade. Fine, except my free upgrade says I have an invalid serial number. So I've had C6P since Wednesday, but I can't install or use it. I e-mailed DAZ immediately. Got a responsemore than 24 hours later that their Tech people would "look into it." So now it's Saturday and my C6P is still not installed. No word from their "Tech people."

I considered buying another upgrade, but what if the problem is that it can't read my serial number? Then I'm out a small but useful chunk of money. I even considered buying a new full license (a similar problem occurred with my Hex 2.0 license, and I gave up and bought a one-month PC and a new Hex 2.1 license), but based on what I see here, I think I'll wait until the product catches up with the promise. Who knows? Maybe what I have already was worth every penny?

M

Not to state the obvious, but did you try CALLING?.  they have a very friendly customer phone service which I have used several times for simple tech questions (better than forums) and purchases. In this days of cyber world, people have really loose the personal touch to the point that they don't even think about talking to one enother.

There was a similar problem with Bryce's serial number when I upgraded to 5. They sent out new serials. Also, what is 3delight?

3delight is renderman compliant reyes render engine.
D|S has a stripped down version of it hardwired.
http://www.3delight.com/en/

Attached Link: http://www.3delight.com/en/index.php/products/3delight/3delight_overview