Not that I post here enough to contribute much to any tidal shifts, but I'm pretty close to making the jump from Poser to D|S.  Compatibility is the only thing holding me back.  If I could open a Poser scene in D|S and have it work properly more than 10% of the time I'd be using D|S more than Poser.

Quote - All kidding aside folks,  there are compatiblity issues between Daz Studio 1.8 and Poser 5 and above.  I don't like it.  I feel there should be crossplatform integration between the two.  Just like the high end apps have collada and fbx.  That being said I'm going to have to develope a Daz studio version and Poser 5 and above version of all my figures.  I can really see where this would discourage a lot of vendors.

That's one of my biggest issues right now. I've run into that incompatability just with making basic MOR poses for V4.1 already. They work fine in Poser. They do NOT work at ALL in Studio. I have to make an INJ/REM file rather than a simple MOR pose to distribute my morphs simply because Studio for one reason or another, will not apply the morphs in a MOR pose, and trying to get those INJ files made means saving THREE cr2's, and even then, if you have any morph dials turned already on the figure, it'll apply the INJ on TOP OF those dials.

Personally, I prefer Poser to DS. I've been using it since version 4, at any rate, and I just like it a LOT better than Studio.

At the same time, though, I don't think there is anything wrong with Studio, either. They are two different applications. They are not the same programme. Studio does exactly what it aims to do - it is a free 3D rendering programme, and allows people to get into the CG/3D art arenas and get a taste of doing the artwork without charging them a penny for the basic application.

They are two different animals, and everyone has their own preferences. You can't really say one is better than the other. Some people do better with and prefer Studio, other people do better with and prefer Poser.

I DO think the compatability issues are a problem. I DO think they ought to be more compatible than they are. I really DONT support Studio in the content I make for just that reason, and my recent attempts to do so has been bringing me one headache after another and I'm about THIS close to going back to saying 'these are for poser, if you have d/s don't ask me how to make them work!'

I think the community overall would be much better served by an alliance rather than the two companies (Daz and SmithMicro) working against each other and trying to outdo one another. I think the community would be far better served if there was more compatability between the two programmes.

But I'm also not holding my breath, either. shrugs Time will tell, it is pointless to get all worked up about the maybes, in my opinion. I wait, I watch, but if I am forced to choose between one or the other? Poser will keep my money. D/S will not. That's just me, though, and others will go the exact oppossite route..

Everyone has their own personal preferences, and they make their decisions on what to use and when and for how long based upon those preferences. For me, I don't like even ONE thing about Studio operates/functions/yada yada. I grew up in Poser so to speak, and it's what I know. IF I can make my content in such a way that it will work in both Poser and D/S? I will gladly do so. But I'm about fed up with jumping through a million hoops only to hit the brick wall on the other side in trying to do that, and I'm pretty close to simply going back to not supporting D/S at ALL any longer.

And I really think that in the long run? THAT is what will hurt the community. More than even SM and Daz battling it out... the incompatability of the programmes and files that causes such headaches for the vendors and content creators will harm things because a lot will eventually just say the heck with it, and produce for one or the other and in that kind of arrangement, one of the two camps is gonna be left without a fire burning, so to speak.

~ Seliah

I wonder if we could start a thread about these issues and find work arounds for them?

I haven't commented though I have been reading everyones thoughts.

Seliah, I couldn't agree more with the extra effort it takes to make your stuff happen in studio. It's a grind to make it happen in Poser. Carrara helps with that but realistically that's another app to make another app work. Where does it end? Are the companies helping end this, or are they actually widening the gulf?
I don't see a war really Kuroyume, but a stubborness that doesn't help matters. I agree with much you have to say too. Totally failing in the support it (Poser) deserves.

Here is my frustration:
I fully understand and accept that there is a great deal of work and time involved in making multiple apps work together. Zbrsuh to Poser takes some doing, but it isn't impossible. 3ds Max to Poser can happen, but you have to drive carefully.
But Poser to DAZ studio is silly. Poser to Carrara is good, but isn't Poser to Vue just the same thing, but more? Sure Carrara has modeling capabilities, but so what. There are plenty of resources available that can take care of the modeling end. Besides modeling is really out of the league of a lot of end-users. Sure some want to make something, but I would venture to say that most are not buying Carrara for modeling purposes. So what are they buying it for? DAZ figures? Maybe.
Anyways, Kuroyume already solved that problem for us with Cinema 3d some time ago.

Ultimately (by what I've seen and watched) the two companies don't see a need for a better facilitation between their two apps. Which ulimately will hurt one or the other, or both. I understand why major 3d artists look down on Poser (I'm not saying I agree, but I understand their point of view), but I personally see Poser as a stepping stone that really facilitates the whole creation process. Do 3d purist's think it's cheating? Sure they do. But my analogy would be, if I can paint better and faster (for a specific application) with a roller than a paint brush...am I cheating?
It takes a long time to rig a figure in Max, will Max have more control and abilities than Poser? You bet. But there are different niches for different markets (agree again Kuroyume).
I see, and am trying to create, so much more in this program...including and using the figures from DAZ. Am I cheating? Heck yeah! Or my manager would say, "I'm being more productive with my time." Snort. I'm being smart.
What isn't being smart is the two brothers (SM, DAZ) not playing nice with each other at the cost of end-users. No war, but not helping either. Who loses?

I won't stop doing my thing, and will continue to grow in the supported and available apps on the market that allow me to create the art that I feel.
I don't care that 3d geeks don't consider my tool as viable, I do care that the companies supporting my tool...don't get along and play well with each other, ultimately hurting the end-user.

rant over
soap box put away
slithers back to the dark dank hole from which it came

Hi JQP

I'm going with Daz.  SmithMicro wants a war then by golly they'll get one!

Cheers

Pat

As a user of both programs I realize that we have little to limited say so, but I'll add this for what it is worth anyways. Daz Studio is free and it runs Daz content without all the bells and whistles Poser has and Daz provides a nice bundle of content with it. It's a great marketing tool for Daz and like someone else said it opens a door for beginners to get their feet wet in 3D without spending a lot of money. Daz Studio and Poser have to go in their separate directions in my opinion simply because they are different programs and they have different features even. However successful Daz Studio becomes remains to be seen, but it's obvious to me it's gaining popularity and it's still in it's infancy. Daz has out marketed the owners of Poser because Daz makes content and they provided an application that will use it for free.

Poser on the other hand has entered into the content arena. They make money now off of both ends(selling Poser and 3rd party content along with their own) and could easily provide a platform for their content free of charge to the public same as Daz does. They provided Poser 5  free for a limited time, but if you want to be the master of both realms then provide a platform and pay for it with the content sales and club memberships. They have Poser 4 or they can just provide Poser 5 and maybe even redo Poser 5 so that it runs better or even give it a new look(strip it of all the bulk content for bandwidth's sake), but end result is keep up or get the heck out of the way.

The reason I like Daz Studio is that it reminds me of the automaton plugin for Lightwave.  BTW I wish Daz would come out with a plugin that would import Carrara rigging to Studio.

Now as for Poser,  why should people buy it.  Daz Studio is free.  How much is Quidam?  How much is Carrara Pro?

Pat, I would look into Zbrush before I looked into Quidam. If you know how to create morphs (which you do) then ZB is the bomb. Heck, you could do quite a lot with just V4 and M3 and ZB morphs...and convincingly.
Just my dos cervantos to your life.

I like the new plugin for Photo Shop that Daz is giving away for free also. I could make a list of the things I like about D/S and things I don't. Mostly being just lack of bell and whistle, but it's free.

People boast about Poser's bells and whistles and functionality, but you pay for it. I hope it's better, I really do.

2/19/08

Are camel hair brushes better than synthetic for producing a master piece? Do you prefer acrylic or oil paints? What is the better medium, cante, charcoal, pen and ink, or pencil? Which language is better for poetry, Italian, French, German, Japanese, or English? Where does the artist fit into that debate?

Michelangelo or DiVinci could do better with a chewed stick and mud than I could with the most expensive brushes and paints. What a way to distinguish oneself in this craft. I use D|S. I use Poser. I use Vue. I use Maya. My software preferences are the best in tools, compatibility, and/or price. What in all of this is supposed to impress me? All tools bring accommodation and compromise to the process of expression. Don't show me your brushes. Show me your art.

LMK

Personally, I prefer camel hair brushes and acrylic paints on Daler board.

For poetry, French reputedly has a word for everything; however, English has at least four words for everything, so...

At the moment, D|S can't do the things I need.  I'm sure it will eventually but at the moment I'll stick with Poser.  Getting a higher spec package and/or computer ain't an option for me right now, either, so that's out the window.

I'm used to Poser but I'm pretty sick of fighting with it most of the time.

The keyboard right now is my brush. I'm painting with B.S.

Like it?

You asked me to show it to you. :)

Really, you have a point. It's not just the tools.

Hi DarkEdge

ZBrush is top of the list as soon as I get my tax return. 

Hi Dogor

The Bridge!  You know that's what I like about Daz,  they're always looking to the future.  Now,  why didn't Poser develope something like the bridge when CS3 came out.  Personally,  until Poser decides to integrate with the rest of the CG community,  Poser 6 is the last for me.

Meh... I use 'em both... still. D|S more than Poser, though. I can tell you this: It's a lot easier to get stuff done in D|S (...and not just becuase I know the guts of D|S, either). I keep Poser around because I only have C5 Pro (second-hand, and C6 is coming... as soon as the IRS deigns to cut me some refund dough). I also keep Poser around because sometimes there are a couple of tricks I know for building characters that I can only do in Poser. OTOH, newbies don't know those little bit (e.g. the hierarchy editor), and from their POV, D|S is hella easier to use (just in my opinion). As for which will reign supreme? My answer is (for now) Neither. Poser still has a lot of folks in the pro community who reach downwards to them (whereas DAZ has to do all of its reaching upwards). The pro community knows the Poser brand name (trust me, they certainly don't piss on Poser when the deadlines are tight and resources are short...). Meanwhile, D|S is still getting its name out there. That said, IMHO D|S + Carrara is vastly superior, judging on what I've seen them capable of doing seperately. Once I get C6, I think I can ditch Poser entirely, using Carrara to do what Poser does now. /P

Hi Penguinisto

I agree.  That's why I'm stopping with Poser 6.

2/19/08

Many of us who use Poser are hobbyists, or at least not professionals. I for one do not have a deep pocket of money, and no time or real need to learn how to use a dozen software packages. To extend a metaphor I have previously used, those of us who are highly invested in Poser have painted ourselves into a corner. We cannot just go out and buy a few other very expensive programs, so, we might as well learn to use the one we already have as well as possible. Hence, we have a POSER FORUM to help us do so.

I have installed every version of D|S that has come out since I first became interested in CG, and I have uninstalled the software in one or two days. While many novices may find D|S easier to use, I (as a novice) do not. Poser was by far easier for me to learn, and deal with. I like Poser (7), I have Poser, and I use Poser. I will probably buy Poser X, when it comes out. I am really not too obstinate to consider other possibilities. I have considered them, and Poser is the best program for me to use to do what I want to do.

And, D|S is not free. The base program may be, and a few plug-ins, but it is every bit as expensive as Poser if you want or need all of the available plug-ins. If one wants D|S to do nearly what Poser 7 can do one will need every plug-in, or several other programs. DAZ’s business model is free or cheap base software (figures, etc.) and expensive or numerous add-ons. It is a different business model, but not a better one.

D|S and Poser are mutually incompatible. One may not be very well able to use Poser base figures or G2 figures in D|S, but DAZ figures all have known idiosyncratic problems with Poser. Problems that have been known for years and never get fixed.

D|S is extendable through plug-ins, and I believe the SDK is free? So, why doesn’t an enterprising software programmer build a D|S bridge to and from Poser, and then each community can contribute more than just comments to the other community. Unless D|S is simply not that flexible, this should be easier than making plug-ins for Poser to send data to high-end applications.

LMK

Okay, suppose Daz figures have idiosyncratic problems in Poser(specify the version). Are the G2 figures 100% compatible with Poser 4 or 5? That's home built stuff.

We haven't seen the changes in Poser X yet.

2/19/07

*"Okay, suppose Daz figures have idiosyncratic problems in Poser(specify the version)."

Poser 4, 5, 6, and 7.

"Are the G2 figures 100% compatible with Poser 4 or 5?"

????? Who would expect that? I cannot open files saved in the latest version of MS Word format with my old Word 97. Does any one expect DAZ to produce only figures and plug-ins in 2008 that will work in the oldest releases of D|S? In fact V 4.2 requires an update to work in D|S ("That's home built stuff"). This seems to be a non-issue to me. If one wants to open Poser 7 specific content, buy Poser 7. And that is part of my point.

LMK

Quote - The Bridge!  You know that's what I like about Daz,  they're always looking to the future.  Now,  why didn't Poser develope something like the bridge when CS3 came out.  Personally,  until Poser decides to integrate with the rest of the CG community,  Poser 6 is the last for me.

So if Poser intigrates with CS3, Cinema 4d, Maya, or Max then you'll buy Poser 7?

Yep!  All it has to do is be able to import and export in fbx or collada format.

Here's the thing though lkenndal. Yes, Daz updated D/S to handle V4.2. How much did you pay for that? For that matter how did you pay for the V4.2 update for Daz Studio or Poser?

As far as the supposed "idiosyncratic" problems. I would like you to explain the way you are using the term. All character/figures or models have mannerism or habit inside a program. So what. Daz characters worked to my satisfaction in most of those versions even when they were fundamentally different in the way they worked and behaved(BUGS and all). By the way they still sell most of them and never update them to use newer content either. 

It doesn't bother me you want to stick with Poser, but it seems people make up and imagine reasons for Daz supporting Poser because deep down they know if Daz doesn't support Poser then Poser is probably screwed. Idiosyncratic really.

I guess my only put off with Carrara would be that I get to learn how to rig from scratch in a new program...me brain/hard drive is getting a little full up here. lol.

Quote - 2/19/08

Many of us who use Poser are hobbyists, or at least not professionals. I for one do not have a deep pocket of money, and no time or real need to learn how to use a dozen software packages.

IMHO, many more who use Poser are pros. I'm very willing to wager that nearly all of those who crack a snide remark in Poser's direction are either pros who use it in a pinch, or wannabes who like to pretend they're pros. > Quote - I have installed every version of D|S that has come out since I first became interested in CG, and I have uninstalled the software in one or two days. While many novices may find D|S easier to use, I (as a novice) do not.

Of course not - you're too used to the way it's always been done in Poser. No shame in saying so...

I could list a lot of reasons why I think D|S is easier to grok for the newbie (starting with multiple Runtime handling), but instead let me boil it down to the UI... it's laid out in a more intelligent fashion that Kai Krause's effort, and it doesn't require my setting aside a ton of desktop real estate just to get a good-sized viewport area. The tools are laid out in a shallow manner (meaning I don't have to go digging for them all). Many of the functions that require separate actions in Poser (e.g. IK removal, selecting base figure body parts, morph dial limits, or the act of conforming one figure to another) are automatic. Selecting an item in a scene, making it visible or invisible, or even parenting it only requires eyeballing one easy-to-read Scene Tab.

This is not to knock Poser at large... it was after all an experiment in User Interfaces. BUT... each and every Poser user in this joint (myself included) must admit in all honesty that their initial look at Poser was more than just a little opaque, to say the least.
  > Quote - And, D|S is not free. The base program may be, and a few plug-ins, but it is every bit as expensive as Poser if you want or need all of the available plug-ins.

Sorta... depends on what you want to do with it.

For the basic "hey, what's this three-dee thing all about"? newbie, it's completely free. Costs $0.00 to load a figure, compose it, add props and lighting, then render it. Now if you're already someone who has used Poser for eons, and you want dynamic this-or-that, and you want HDRI/AOL/IBL, okay... go buy Carrara 6 Pro. It'll cost about as much as Poser Pro, and it'll give you a far more comprehensive set of tools to boot (including modeling, and I don't mean Hexagon).

For the in-between folks? Meh - ye picks yer poison: Add plugins, or go whole hog. Overall you end up with a better value.

Quote - D|S and Poser are mutually incompatible. One may not be very well able to use Poser base figures or G2 figures in D|S, but DAZ figures all have known idiosyncratic problems with Poser. Problems that have been known for years and never get fixed.

I could just as easily turn it around and say that if the default Poser figures were even halfway comparable (and weren't warmed-over Zygote figs)...  I know eF/CP could churn out some decent figures fer cryin' out loud... Terai Yuki is living proof of that. But seriously - the default stuff kinda blows chunks in the flexibility department. Otherwise, why would anyone bother with Vicky/Aiko/yaddayaddayadda... ?

But, in either case the arguments don't wash as absolutes. After all, why should DAZ bother to try and make a figure 100000% compatible with a hideous and crufty codebase like Poser? Why should SM bother with R&D into default figures that basically come free with the package? > Quote - D|S is extendable through plug-ins, and I believe the SDK is free? So, why doesn’t an enterprising software programmer build a D|S bridge to and from Poser, and then each community can contribute more than just comments to the other community.

You mean things like the Poser Format Exporter (which is a freebie item @ DAZ)? Or perhaps the extensive Poser format importing capabilities that is already built-in to D|S?

Problem is, that flexibility has to go both ways to accomplish what you're proposing, and I don't much feel like paying $20k+ just for a copy of the Poser SDK, you know?

(I already know what the Poser answer will be: "use Python". That said, sometimes not every problem is a nail, but in this analogy Python is only a hammer).

/P
 

What is Keystroke Spy for? It seems to be with a bunch of Daz stuff and Spyware Doctor says the infection is Elevated. It's also attached to a Poser 7 e frontier .ink.

They were talking about something like that over at the Daz forums,too.

Keystroke Spy does not sound good my friend.

I have no idea what the heck it is or used for...but logging keystrokes sounds very funky.

Side topic...peps are actually (during christmas time shopping) sitting in their cars with cell phones are are able to hear/access folks using the number pads on their car door locks (instead of a key).

No it doesn't sound good at all. As far as information goes, why would Daz need it. They have it per say, but I just finished a full scan and found it with Mimic and a whole bunch of Daz files. Maybe their download server was infected or maybe it's just something Daz put there. That's why I'm asking folks.

Can you get a traceroute on it?  To see where it originated from?

Where exactly does it show up for you guys? I just ran couple spyware scans on my computer, and no keystroke spy.

How would I go about that? I have a list of all the directories it's in.

See for yourself.

Nice render Pat, where's the CPU heat sink?
Oops, now I guess I'm getting nasty.
 

I had a vendor, whom I trust, who had me run a python script on my system that would record stuff so he could see a reason for his products failure. Now if it were anybody else I would have told them to get lost. But there is something not right if somebody puts that kind of spying in their software without letting you know. Are they using it for deviant activities? I doubt it. But goofy individuals with nothing better to do can hack these things...and they might have deviant motives.

Who put it there? I reloaded Poser 5 on an external hard drive(to get the runtime mainly) here a few weeks ago. This is the first time I've gotten these results and I've run many many scans on this computer. Of course Spyware Doctor does updates almost constantly.

Quote - Who put it there? I reloaded Poser 5 on an external hard drive(to get the runtime mainly) here a few weeks ago. This is the first time I've gotten these results and I've run many many scans on this computer. Of course Spyware Doctor does updates almost constantly.

Those are all shortcuts to various uninstallers, so the file size should be tiny (less than 1Kb).

If your really worried, contact the scanner vendor and get them to find out why it's giving you a warning for these.

I'm not shaking in my boots. I was curious to see if anyone else had picked up the same thing.  If it was common .

Quote - I'm not shaking in my boots. I was curious to see if anyone else had picked up the same thing.

Because of the methods used by detection software, false positives do occur.
As these are shortcuts, you can delete them without ill effect and if you ever need to run the uninstallers that they point to, you can run them directly from the directory they're in.

I have both D|S and Poser on my system.  Carrara and Vue, too.  I don't plan to delete any of them off of my hard drive.

I deleted the supposed key loggers.

Quote - I could list a lot of reasons why I think D|S is easier to grok for the newbie (starting with multiple Runtime handling), but instead let me boil it down to the UI... it's laid out in a more intelligent fashion that Kai Krause's effort, and it doesn't require my setting aside a ton of desktop real estate just to get a good-sized viewport area. The tools are laid out in a shallow manner (meaning I don't have to go digging for them all). Many of the functions that require separate actions in Poser (e.g. IK removal, selecting base figure body parts, morph dial limits, or the act of conforming one figure to another) are automatic. Selecting an item in a scene, making it visible or invisible, or even parenting it only requires eyeballing one easy-to-read Scene Tab.

This is not to knock Poser at large... it was after all an experiment in User Interfaces. BUT... each and every Poser user in this joint (myself included) must admit in all honesty that their initial look at Poser was more than just a little opaque, to say the least.

Ya know... I am a diehard Poser user myself. I've been using it since version 4 (prior to the update), and I am currently in here at Poser7. That said... I actually DO agree with a lot of what you've said. I DO agree that in many ways D/S is easier to grasp for the beginners who are getting their feet wet in the 3D area. I do agree that some of the functions (such as IK/parenting/etc) are much better thought out and impleneted in D/S.

However...........................................

The interface. The UI. That is EXACTLY what turned me OFF of D/S, to be blunt flaming honest here. I can't STAND the ui. It makes my head spin, it ticks me off, and it drives me absolutely BONKERS. I hate it. I despise it. I can NOT get used to the user interface of D/S, I have NEVER liked it, and I simply most likely never will. For me, the UI is a MAJOR deciding factour on what programme I am going to go with. I've got D/S 1.8 on here. I've had all the previous versions on here as well. I've tried them. I've deleted them within a matter of days every time because for ME, the user interface alone is confusing, infuriating, frustrating, NOT explanatory, and leaves me sitting here wanting to pick up my computer and throw it out a window.

So... yeah. Even the UI is not neccessarily a 'newbie' thing. Granted I'm not a newbie, but nor am I pro. I'm a middle ground hobbyist who mainly uses it to illustrate her own work and occassionally gets a stroke of luck and cracks out a freebie here and there for folks to play with. But until such time as I can open up DazStudio and spend more than 2 minutes inside of it without my blood pressure skyrocketing because of how cumbersome and ugly and confusing and sheer FRUSTRATING the interface is (for me!!!!!!)...... I'm very, very, VERY NOT likely to EVER use it as my main rendering programme.

Does D/S do what it adverrtises to do? Yes! Definitely.
Does it have things done in there better than Poser? Yup! There are definitely things D/S does and handles way better than Poser.

But it's completely unusable by me because of that user interface design. There really are no words for how strongly I detest the UI... thus... I have stuck with Poser, and I likely always will because by version 1.8, they've decided what their UI is going to be and they are not likely to ever change that. Which means I won't use it because that UI is 99% of the turnoff for me to D/S.

All that said. laughs

I do honestly LIKE D/S for what it's capable of doing, how it's worked, how it's coded, and how it allows people to get the base programme and such and start playing around in 3D. But I just don't think it's for everyone. Just as I don't think Poser is for everyone.

What it boils down to for me, in my view, is that Poser and D/S are like choosing to use a PC or a Mac. Or choosing to use Windows or Linux. It's PERSONAL preference. Some will like one and not the other, others may be the exact oppossite. You CANNOT compare them, because they are not by any means the same product, and attempting to do so is doing a disservice to BOTH products, in my opinion. Compare D/S on the grounds of it being a CG artwork and rendering programme. By all means!! But don't compare it to Poser, or compare Poser to D/S. That's apples and oranges folks, and every discussion I've ever seen of this nature invariably seems to turn into a Poser vs. D/S topic and it really... makes very little sense.

Naturally, D/S users will support D/S. Naturally, Poser users will support Poser. If they didn't, then they're using the wrong programme!! Naturally, people will support that which THEY like and find the most use out of.

For me, that's Poser. For others, it might be D/S. Personal preference, personal opinions. That's why we have the ability to make the choice in which to use. :) I don't give a flying hoot about the advertising, the marketing, yada yada yada. I don't care. I really don't. Your adverts and marketing has ZERO to do with whether or not I stick with one programme or use another to accomplish what I wish to do. What makes that decision for me is functionality, user interface, and performance. For me, Poser wins that contest.

Personally? I try to support BOTH programmes. Why? Because I feel they are both valid 3D/CG tools, and deserving of that support. I try very hard to make my freebies compatible with both Poser and D/S. I'm in the middle right now of making a completely separate packaging of Caris specifically so that the D/S users can actually use my V4 morphs. I shouldn't HAVE to. I SHOULD be able to release one file and expect it to work in both Poser and D/S, but yet that is not the case. So I am sitting here reinventing the wheel to make my morphs function inside of D/S, because I don't want to leave the D/S users out in the cold, either.

They're both good programmes. They both do function well as their designers intended. They both have problems. They both have supporters and non-supporters. People are individual and not cut from the same mold anymore than these two programmes are, and will make their own decision. I just wish it was less 'poser sucks, d/s rocks' and 'd/s sucks, poser rules' and more an attempt to try and work with the playing field that's laid out before us. That's all.

/rant off
/soapbox away

slinks back off to her dark corner
~ Seliah

Quote - What it boils down to for me, in my view, is that Poser and D/S are like choosing to use a PC or a Mac. Or choosing to use Windows or Linux. It's PERSONAL preference. Some will like one and not the other, others may be the exact oppossite.

Exactly. > Quote - Compare D/S on the grounds of it being a CG artwork and rendering programme. By all means!! But don't compare it to Poser, or compare Poser to D/S.

Correct - it's better to compare D|S + Carrara vs. Poser if you want a more even comparison. That said, they do compete - there is no escaping that. -- Personally, Poser is in no danger from users leaving it. It's biggest threat is two-fold: 1) that it changes ownership almost every two years (MetaCreations -> Curious Labs -> CL/EGISys -> eFrontier -> Smith Micro )... it stands a good long-term chance of being orphaned that way. 2) that it needs a complete re-write of its codebase to keep it from bogging down as each new version is issued. To be fair, D|S also has some dangers, albeit not as severe: 1) SDK uptake is slow - most prefer to script rather than code. 2) it has become less of a stand-alone program and more of a path to Carrara. 3) There are some features (e.g. IBL) that it could certainly stand to have, but doesn't. /P

IMVHO, because Poser is a hobbyist application, it will never make a lot of money for its owners. If we were professional graphic artists, we would all be on Poser 7 because (a) the company would pay for it, and (b) earlier versions would no longer be supported. As it is, there are a lot of people who, for various reasons, still use Poser 6, 5 and even 4. I wonder how many regular Poser users upgraded to 7?

e-Frontier made no money from existing Poser users who didn't buy Poser 6 from them or upgrade to 7. Likewise, Smith-Micro will make no money from existing Poser users until a new version comes out. (I doubt that CP makes a lot of money.)

Mike

D/S is the gate for poser content into Bryce.

Carrara takes runtimes now so really it can function on it's own without Daz Studio. Carrara 6 imports Daz scene files and Poser pz3's now. Really you could say that Carrara is stand alone because it can do it all by itself.

The reason some still use Poser 4 is because there are still people out there that own and run a Windows 98 computer. Or simply they like it and don't feel the need to purchase an upgrade. Could be why they still use Windows 98. Part of it is that everyone cannot own nice powerful computers.

Quote - D/S is the gate for poser content into Bryce.

Carrara takes runtimes now so really it can function on it's own without Daz Studio. Carrara 6 imports Daz scene files and Poser pz3's now. Really you could say that Carrara is stand alone because it can do it all by itself.

How do you apply Poser materials in DAZ and Carrara? I'm not talking about fancy nodes or anything, just Poser files that apply a image map.

Quote - IMVHO, because Poser is a hobbyist application, it will never make a lot of money for its owners. If we were professional graphic artists, we would all be on Poser 7 because (a) the company would pay for it, and (b) earlier versions would no longer be supported.

Actually, if I were a pro gfx artist, I'd be using (mainly) Modo/Maya/Shake/etc... and for the exact same reasons you state. And it'd be on an eight-core Mac Pro w/ a huge color-calibrated monitor (the gfx artists here @ work use 'em).

I mean, if the boss is writing the checks, I can damned sure justify the higher-end gear.

Quote - e-Frontier made no money from existing Poser users who didn't buy Poser 6 from them or upgrade to 7. Likewise, Smith-Micro will make no money from existing Poser users until a new version comes out. (I doubt that CP makes a lot of money.)

I suspect that CP does okay, income-wise. Otherwise I agree.

/P

Quote - D/S is the gate for poser content into Bryce.

Carrara takes runtimes now so really it can function on it's own without Daz Studio. Carrara 6 imports Daz scene files and Poser pz3's now. Really you could say that Carrara is stand alone because it can do it all by itself.

It can, but D|S -> Carrara is apparently a whole lot smoother (due to Materials and etc).

Bryce's fate I'm not really sure about, though...

/P

CP hasn't shown me their books yet -- so I have no clue as to what their profit margins might be.  EF never showed me their books, either.  SM seems to be doing OK, though.