OK, I just applied one of the Petite morphs to my figure. You do need the V4 NGM's to use the Petite NGM morphs.
Checking in the Breast section of the Morphs++ in my figure these are the dials which were automatically spun when the morph was applied.
I would then assume that if someone has both NGM packages & Connie has included the Morphs++ then this morph would be incorporated into the outfit.
Or am I missing something?

Quote - so you also have NGM for V4?  or are you trying to use NGM Petite with NGM for GND4?  or are you working with an advanced copy of NGM Petite for GND4? 

I'll cross that bridge when I get to it... sometime next week when I'm done with other morphs.

I can't imagine it being that difficult.  Looking at INJ files, Pettite morphs contain nine groups of deltas, so they are more then dial settings.  Looking at  Pose files for different looks, they have dial settings combining from theese packs: V4++, V4 NGM's and V4 Petitte NGM's

Either way, I have to export each morph containing with delta's as an OBJ. Not a dial setting combo, but the actual morph.  Then sculpt the outfit to fit around them. Not all that different then any other character or morph pack.

Quote - OK, I just applied one of the Petite morphs to my figure. You do need the V4 NGM's to use the Petite NGM morphs.
Checking in the Breast section of the Morphs++ in my figure these are the dials which were automatically spun when the morph was applied.
I would then assume that if someone has both NGM packages & Connie has included the Morphs++ then this morph would be incorporated into the outfit.
Or am I missing something?

Theoretically, that's how it should work. 

In practice, we'll see if there are adjustments or considerations I'll have to make once I try things out. Sometimes when you sculpt a morph into a clothing, even if you are as careful as you can possibly be, it doesn't always behave the same way as it does on the character mesh itself. In my last project, the wizard robe for Apollo, I encountered about 20% of the morphs behaving badly. Usually it stems from the fact that meshes aren't identical.

IAfter I sculpt the moprhs and have them in the outfit, usually during what I call alpha testing, my testers and I look at how things are working together. 

If there are any individual morphs behaving badly, if they can't be fixed or are complicated beyond reasonable, then they are dropped. This means that out of 10 petitte morphs, it's higly likely I will include around 8 of them. Five if we're not lucky, all ten if we're really lucky.  What will actually happen with any individual morph, I won't know till I'm knee deep in the process.  Or shall I say, in this casse, nipple deep in the process? :tt2:

Just give me a shout if you need help with the breasts!!

No, seriously Connie, you can only do what you can do. The important  thing I suppose is that the main FBM morphs are as right as possible. The NGM's would just be an added bonus.

Let there be boobs!  :lol:

Now back to FBM's. I think I dreamed of a process last night to speed things up a little. I have to try it today!

Stormy.... and anyone else reading this...
About the pettite full body morph... If I do a morph of GND4+pettite from V4 (which is how the other morphs are done, the morphs is not looking good (since GND4 is already pettite) type.

If I do Just V4 pettite morph, it wont function to make any character pettite, it will take any character to V4 look (away from GND4) and then make it pettite.

So, Stormy, you say you use pettite a fair bit... do you use it on it's own or mixed with other morphs?
(Try dialing GND to 1 and V4++ pettite to one, see what you get) Something more or less deformed.  Something similar would happen to the suit too. 

Pettite as a standalone shape belongs to Aiko 4 family actually. but in this case it won't mix well with other morphs.

*I think I dreamed of a process last night to speed things up a little.

I was already wondering if you're getting enough sleep with this project. I think you're a doing a great job, but I'm also glad you share your process with us. It's very inspirational.

best regards,

Bopper.

Thanks Bopper :) 
If people have questions, I'll be happy to try and answer them. Perhaps not as detailed as a tutorial might, but at least conceptually :)

Hello again Connie.

OK. Yes, GND4 mixed with the petite morphs will generally not look right if GND4 is set to 1.0.
When I'm using V4 I like to use the fitness morph alot as a base & when I'm using A4 I like to use the basic shape plus the petite morphs if required.
Mixing V4 morphs with A4 morphs can be interesting.
Fitness & Petite are already what GND4 is about so these morphs can't be used alot with her unless you have say GND4 set to 0.5 & then mix some of the other morphs in.
I haven't experimented withGND4 & other morphs as much as I should have done. I have a new character face for the Stormy outfit but no body as yet. I will be experimenting on different shapes until I come up with an interesting one.

The basic point is that when mixing morphs it's generally not a good idea to have a particular strong morph set at 1.0.

What I was wondering: are you making all those morphs as Inj and Rem files or as one file? It's a gonna be a very big cr2 file if you have all the morphs in it. I'm making an outfit for V4 myself at the moment , but the cr2 files with all the FBM morphs are getting very big, so I think making seperate Inj-posefiles would be a good solution.
IMHO making all the morphs manually is the best way, but also the most tedious way, I have deep respect for that!
I've been wrestling with all these morph programs like Wardrobewizard, morphmagic, and recently Crossdresser and freely speaking there's none that does it perfect! Crossdresser makes the smoothest morphs but the morphs aren't tight enough for me. Wardrobewizard makes the very tight morphs, just like morphsmagice does, but they also make very annoying wrinkles and bubbles.
So doing it by hand is the most sound way to do it, but I'm afraid I don't have enough time (and patience)  to do that.
So.. hats off for your efforts!

Bopper.

Stormy,  with the outfit being based on GND 4, morph mixing will be somewhat limited. This is because Outfit is starting with GND4 as base/starting point, and character is staring as V4. I'm afraid that this will most likely be true with FBM.
Once I have a few more done, I'll send you some files so you can experiment. We can always add or take a way a few morphs later.  I still need to check and make sure that my thinking on how the morphs will behave isn't faulty. I never believe it 100% till I see it.

Bopper, what I did on my windy wizard robe, which is also a pretty sizeable mesh is to make six or seven logical groups of injectable morphs. I think I'll do the same with this outfit.

That way those wanting Aiko morph, won't have to have Alice and other characters in there.... and those not wanting the V4++ morph overhead won't have them in there unless injected. Same with some of my styling morphs.

Usually the initial outfit is likely to come with only JCMs already in there (Since they need to work transparently.)

About hand doing morphs... Since they're for marketplace, I can't put out crappy transformations. If it was for my own artwork, I could get away with a lot more little flaws.

Another thing I couls do....now that I have V4 morphs, is I can make that into a default mesh and loading shape, and turn GND4 into a character morph....  maybe.

I'm not sure if that's as good of an idea as it sounds at the moment.

I'll be glad to experiment if you need some feedback Connie. Anytime.

About hand doing morphs... Since they're for marketplace, I can't put out crappy transformations. If it was for my own artwork, I could get away with a lot more little flaws.

You're a perfectionist, aren't you?

B.

Quote - Another thing I couls do....now that I have V4 morphs, is I can make that into a default mesh and loading shape, and turn GND4 into a character morph....  maybe.

I'm not sure if that's as good of an idea as it sounds at the moment.

Maybe I'm naive, but will this make a difference?
Let's say if someone doesn't have GND4 but they have Alice, would they conform the outfit (set at GND4) to their Alice figure & just inj the Alice morphs? Will it be a straight transfer?
Sorry, I'm really tired & I'm struggling to concentrate!

If it makes it easier for people then maybe having the V4 as the base would be best.
I guess it depends on your work flow though?

Quote - About hand doing morphs... Since they're for marketplace, I can't put out crappy transformations. If it was for my own artwork, I could get away with a lot more little flaws.

You're a perfectionist, aren't you?

Well... it may sound like it, but look at what came out of Wardrobe Wizard on this outfit :crying:
I kind of had high hopes for wardrobe wizard.
It turned out that by the time I got all the flaws smoothed out to the acceptable level, I spent the same amount of time as I would have foing it 100% by hand. Especially since all the little dimensional details, seams and piping got almost completely flattened (in another attempt with WW2). I didn't have a clue where to even begin fixing those pieces.

My other favorite converter aid - Tailor, doesn't work with V4.2 at all. That one too leaves a lot of stuff to be fixed. I can never get Morph Magic (or is it Morph Manager - I always goof up the name) to work at all.

Sure, if I was doing a scene where she was one of ten figures and far away, it may work.  Not anything I'd offer in the marketplace, by a longshot. Especially since I'm sorta tryin to build a reputation for quality product - as much as I can.

Quote - If it makes it easier for people then maybe having the V4 as the base would be best.
I guess it depends on your work flow though?

It starts to make a difference when I make partial body morphs, things like Boob shapes and butt flex etc...  I have to make those on the mesh that will be used as the base OBJ.

If I don't do it on the base, then every time you want to flex biceps, the whole outfit may change from GND to Plain V4. This is if I make the morphs on V4, and use GND4 as the base mesh. I have to make that decision before I start on that set of morphs.

Also, it may make some difference in how well the morphs mix together... but that, I won't know for sure untill I try.

My other favorite converter aid - Tailor, doesn't work with V4.2 at all. That one too leaves a lot of stuff to be fixed. I can never get Morph Magic (or is it Morph Manager - I always goof up the name) to work at all.

Tailor refuses to load the original V4.2.cr2 file because of an ERC setting with a new ValueOpTimes  keyword  in the eyebrows, which AFAIK is a new Poser7-feature. You can get Tailor 1.6 to work by saving a V4.2 with all the morphs included, then you have to hack that CR2-file and remove the ValueOpTimes keyword, Tailor will load without any problems, allthough you can't use this cr2-file in poser.

Bopper.

Yea, that was the error message. I didn't want to mess with hacking the cr2... I may try again...

Pettite morph done! 
That makes 6 distinct character FBMs done so far.

Hey Connie. This is just my two cents (for what its worth nowadays).

I think it might make the most sense and probably give the greatest degree of flexibility to the outfit if the default was the standard V4 shape, especially since you're also including several character morphs. It may also tend to make morphs mixing work better if the default is Standard V4.

Take all of this with a grain of salt, I've never designed so much as a simple skirt so I may not have the slightest clue....

However, I will say that when you go to make your promotional images, the more petite characters will look the best in the Stormchaser suit.

Thanks Joe-B :)

So, I think I decided on which morphs to eliminate...
Bulk and Pear figure - I just don't like how they look with this outfit. Too stocky.
A4 Realistic - Takes Aiko, makes her look more like V4. there are others that achieve similar enough effect.
Thin - too close to emaciated kind of thin. Young morph does almost the same thing, but without the emaciated look.

That leaves me with the following FBMs to make:  Young, A4Stylized, Fitness, Tanith, Pretty 3D, Milan.   Tanith actually looks a lot like A4 stylized morph. so, 6 FBM's done, 6 to go.  12 should be plenty!!!!

If you need a helping hand , don't hesitate !

Quote - Connie, absolutely fantastic work! Can you give me a clue as to what method you use to form the original plain bodysuit so that it's skin tight? I've tried splines, box modeling and point to point but still haven't gotten the wonderful results you have here. That's great!

In Cinema, if you have the MOCCA module, take a look at the Shrinkwrap deformer - it can be used with a point or polygon selection tag combined with the Restrict tag and can get you ultra close fitting for a model like this.  Also works well with the Brush tool if you want to smooth out point distribution, or smear mode and drag detail around.

I think the 12 you're going with just about covers it, brilliant!
Also, the ones you have chosen to eliminate is a good decision. I think it's true that the slimmer figure will look best in this outfit.
Is going with the base V4 as the default still an option for you Connie, or are you staying with the GND4? I don't know how this will change your workflow so I'll shut up if it's going to cause problems!
From a personal viewpoint I like to mix morphs but I don't know what percentage of people who buy this outfit will? I guess you have to take into consideration what the majority would go for.

You're the 'Morphing Queen' KittyConnie :)

12 morphs, it's much much more than the average products! You'll make plenty of people very happy :D

Quote -
12 morphs, it's much much more than the average products! You'll make plenty of people very happy :D

That's why this outfit is awesome, aside from the brilliant design.
I have purchased outfits in the past which were modelled really well but just didn't have enough morphs in them, for figure shapes & movement.

Oh yeah, diggin the Morphin' Queen.
Sorry, showing my age now!

Oh, thanks for the encouragement you guys, you're too cute!!!!!

One of the things that I want to see is if customers will end up appreciating the amount of morphs, and if it makes them more marketable. If I discover, after a few pieces, that they don't, I may not make future pieces as elaborate.

Quote -
One of the things that I want to see is if customers will end up appreciating the amount of morphs, and if it makes them more marketable. If I discover, after a few pieces, that they don't, I may not make future pieces as elaborate.

That's a really good way of viewing it Connie.
I hope enough people appreciate the diversity of this. You will give them so many options. I'd like to think most Poser people view this as I do, that when you buy a clothing item, the more of the important base morphs there is, the better. Plus, you will be giving them the option to use two of the best characters out there, GND4 & Alice.

I hope so! 
Well... I'm grumpy... didn't get the arch viz project I was trying to get... they couldn't get the money approved since the 'times are tough'.  If I only had a dollar each time I heard that.

A workflow note.

One thing that I'm liking in Max a lot better then Hexagon is how it handles soft selections across elements. It pulls them around together (when in vertex mode). Hexagon doesn't it makes you work with each element separately.

What this means in plain english is that I can push and pull straps and the main robe body together, rather then one piece at the time.

This should speed up the morphing!  I hope I hope I hope!  And, why didn't I try this 6 morphs ago????

Three FBM's left to do. Things are going faster in Max  happy dance

Hoho! You're working fast! It won't be a DAZ soon so ;D

Thanks Vince!  Two more to go.

Not sure if I'll get them done today. we're going out to celebrate birthdays at home. My stepdaughter turned 20 on April 24th, I had a b-day on 28th, and my stepson turned 18 on May 1st. I have about 4 hours before we go anywhere....

Hey, I just noticed your stain' alive outfit. How cool is that!!!!!  Go Vince GO!

One more morph to do, Pretty 3D!

I think I submitted 30 resumes today. I dunno what'll come of them since they're sidestep from my main occupation.  I'm tired of filling out online forms! No more forms!

Also, the flyer for my consulting work is getting printed  www.cb-design.net   I still need to update my website. Have to render out some good pics!!!  I need to revamp my website, and I'm totally uninspired.  (I'm open to ideas and input)

Hi Connie, sent you an email.
Let me know please.

Update... 12 Full Body Morphs are done.

This is the set:  GND4, Alice, Pretty 3d, Tanith, Milan, A4, A4 Pettite, A4Stylized, Fitness, BodyBuilder, Amazon,V4Default.

Now that I found a quicker way of doing them, if someone screams loud enogh I may consider adding one or two.

Now onto the rest of the morphs....

**EVOLUTION EVE!!!

Pretty please? With sugar on top?**

Well, that was pretty loud...........:lol:

Good to hear things are going so well with the outfit Connie.
Hope the employment situation goes just as well soon.

It sounds like this project is a great learning experience for you too. That's good for the rest of us, cause hopefully you'll continue on with more wonderful things after this one.

Oh, Someone mentioned Evolution Eve before too, how could I have forgotten about her! 

Oh that was me,

She happens to be a favorite of mine but she is a little difficult to fit in the breast area and of course the butt and thighs:biggrin:

I'm glad you asked again... the first time you did, I was overwhelmed with something else, and lost track of it!
Which goes for everyone... if someone asked something, and I didn't answer, Please do ask again, or smack me upside the head to pay attention. Sometimes I just lose track of things. And it's ADD in part, when i zoom in on one thing, I forget a lot of other important things. Sowwy :(

About Evolution Eve, I was able to get Van Helsing body morph to dial. Barbie is giving me a hard time. Van Helsing seems to be better suited for this outfit, since she seem more athletic.  Is that okay?

Evolution Eve hey? An interesting character which I've had in my runtime for sometime now but never got round to using. Another good morph for you Connie!

I want an outfit morph for those new figures that come packaged with Poser Pro. They'd look cool in the outfit.

Definitely, Helsing is what I'd considered as Eve's core body morph. I tend to mix it with the Absenthe muscular morphs, and I have V4 mucsle magnets which should cover those.

Thank you, I can't wait to get my hands on this.

BTW, if you are thinking about adding more FBMs, the only other one that I think would benefit would be Didi by Liquid Rust.  

At least the unemployment insurance finally kicked in. I feel like such a friggin' leech having to use it!  :crying:   I never had to use it before, ever!
Hopefully not for long!

*At least the unemployment insurance finally kicked in. I feel like such a friggin' leech having to use it!     I never had to use it before, ever!
Hopefully not for long!

I thought you had your own business.

Connie,  did you state you're a vendor here and that you have your own business on your unemployment claim?  http://www.edd.ca.gov/uibdg/ut41505r.htm

Quote - *At least the unemployment insurance finally kicked in. I feel like such a friggin' leech having to use it!     I never had to use it before, ever!
Hopefully not for long!

I thought you had your own business.

Pat, I am not going to discuss my details of private finances with you here in public. I don't appreciate you asking even this kind of stuff in public. If there's anything you wish to alert me to, you have my email, you know how to send me an IM.

However, you can rest assured things are being done properly.