Very odd - so even when venders are volunteering content it's being turned down...

Quote - So I doubt that much thought was put into preparing content for this release.

and there it is.
unless the program is free, thought and effort should be put into all aspects of it.

BH - true that

Helgard - let me know when your figures are being released - I'll be first in line to buy them

So speculation is now fact.

What the heck was their idea of target audience???
This certainly won't work for Arch Viz.
There are a LOT of much better starter meshes out there for video game creation.
For product demos, you need something that at least fits anatomy for artists 101, first day of class.
Any character modeller worth their salt, if they like to use starter meshes has made their own.-

Looking at what is contained in Poser Pro-, does anyone wonder why many professionals -call Poser the 3d Ghetto? That's what this figure seems to cater to. Someone with no sense of style, even approximate anatomical correctness or modeling ability.

I can just see Poser pro users using this hideous thing making a video game mod acting like it's a major accomplishment, getting criticized for how terrible it is, and then run home to rendo screaming bloody murder about how mean and elitist the pro's are.

GAWWWD... even the interface didn't change!  I was at least hoping for that.  YUCK!

Quote -
as one of the people at the forefront of poser rigging, surely youll admit that figure rigging in poser is getting a little out of hand, no? i mean figure creators are having to go to great lengths just to get something to pose naturally in poser - which is supposed to be a program first and foremost for figure posing and animation.

most poser 'technology' right now is actually nothing but text file hacks developed by individuals like yourself, nerd, drax, etc. this is all being taken for granted by the developers, and also by many beginner poser users who dont understand how much work is involved in poser content development. in the past half dozen poser versions why have no improvements been made to the heart of the program - posing figures? how much longer are people going to expect figure creators to take up the slack through countless hours of CR2 hacking?

as for those that are already working miracles within poser's limitations - think how much more they could do with more tools and options at their disposal.

I don't think hacks are needed for good figures. This was my point with Apollo. The problem is very few people know all the aspects of figure development. It is vastly time consuming and I agree people take it for granted.

As you know I have consulted with Daz, CL, and ef over the years. The community knows more about content production than the companies do. The companies are aware that their internal staff is less knowledgable about content creation than the community. The staffs at Daz, ef, Cl, etc are broken down to specialized jobs. The executives know little or nothing of the software they manage. They don't really use it, play with it, or create in it. They may be fans, but they aren't generally users like we are.

IMO they are all pretty much the same, justifying decisions internally and aren't generally fond of any external advice or input. Noone wants a "hobbyist' to come into their home telling them their furniture is outdated. Their priorities and perspectives are not the same as ours, for various reasons. It isn;t to say they don't want great software, but a boss can't see where change is needed if there decision making is dependent on advice from their staff, who may be looking to protect their jobs. Very few employess are going to admit they don't know what they are doing, or that their knowledge is limited.

Python was meant for users to add-on additional functionality to Poser. I think this didn't go over as well as hoped and is only catching on now. I think we can only hope that the executives, left over from CL, are eventually fired along with their support staff. In my opinion, a few remnants of CL are inhibiting growth. At least this was true, imo, in 2006.

That said, there is hope. The fact SM now owns Poser is a good thing. I think ef did a brilliant job making Poser stable but I do think they took it as far as they could of or would of. Our best hope remains in the community. It would be great if much of what we use was incorporated natively into Poser, but I don't think we should hold out breath. Nor should we have any expectations of salvation from D/S.

Helgard, Aren't you making this, 10,000 polygon figure?
Peeps, see this thread for reference:  http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2738361&page=3

See, I could see wanting to use something like the above as a starter figure.

There's absolutely no reason for a medium poly figure to look like 'The Poser Pro Thing'

I am rather curious where the notion comes from that the base figures are the dough boy and dough girl   Sorry to disappoint you all but they're still Sydney and Simon G2.

And the purpose of the hated pair isn't production anyway, so it seems that a lot of attention is drawn to these two for no particular purpose that I can see.

Heck, the default workspace opens with good old Simon there with a two day growth of beard!

Blackhearted, yes there are rigging limitations in Poser which were faithfully copied into DAZ Studio.  For the moment they aren't going anywhere.  Too bad too.  But the focus on these two characters isn't going to get the developers to work on the rigging because no one is complaining about that.

The UI is awful to be sure.  Though I can't say DAZ Studio exactly screams UI heaven either.

Oh, and if you need it, the P7 content is a download away so no problem.

Now, onto one day of more or less playing with PP after a long download.

This thing loads lightening quick compared to P7 even on Vista.  OpenGL works just fine here.

Overall the program just feels faster and looks better with OpenGL actually functioning now.  Perhaps that's the on the fly gamma correction too.  It takes up the P7 runtime without a hitch.  It finally looks like switching between runtimes won't be a major pain in the butt to do and this is only 32bit.

Renders are quicker wtihout the lags that used to occur.  I sent a small one to the background and that felt really good to actually work on something else till it was done.

In one respect it's good to see people respond with such passion to a piece of software.  It doesn't happen that much anymore.  I've also been around long enough to remember, and have taken part in, doomsday threads like this one.  In spite of it all Poser is still here.

And, remember, this isn't P8, it was never intended to be.  The promo stuff released last fall pointed out that it isn't for everyone, it isn't an upgrade, it's a more professional version with more professional features that the developers have been asked for.  That's what they said they'd deliver and, as far as I can say with such limited exposure that's exactly what they delivered.  So far, so good.

It strikes me that if we want improvements in things like character rigging so that soft tissue, for example, behaves like soft tissue perhaps a thread for a wish list for Poser 8 should be started.  Now that ought to get the attention of the developers.

ttfn

John

Agreed, they're not the base figures, and I don't think anybody said that?

They are the "new content" - the content you only get if you buy the "Professional" version. HAHAHAHA

Quote - I don't see why so many have a problem with these new figures. No, they're not what we're used to as poser users, but they're not really for us. Smith Micro makes it clear what their purpose is and as a game designer I wish these figures would have been released 2 years earlier. It think it's a great move to tap into new market venues for SM.

Err, you do know that unless you're doing strict 2D animations/sprites from it, you're gonna smack right up against a concrete wall of copyright, yes? I'm very sure that SM would have a bit of a problem with some schmuck taking their meshes and redistributing them in a game (even as a mere MOD of an existing game).

Sorry guys, but it ain't gonna be that easy to use them in the way I believe that you intend them to.

/P

Attached Link: Vincent Parker

His name is Vincent. He is yapping on about himself over here.

Quote - BH's point was, you'd be kind of nuts to use a 15k human model as a base to start with for game tech anyway, aside from the appearance.  Much smarter to go with one of the 2-5k poly models available elsewhere (and much cheaper I might add).

Seconded... each game engine also has its own quirks and demands. Some engines demand tris, not quads (...or else you're stuck with having to bust up the quads yourself). Some simply explode at the mere sight of an nGon. Some would take certain complex angles and utterly destroy them in mipmapping or in other distance simplification algorithms (see also the long-distance rendering of player meshes in the original Unreal Tournament - yuck).

If you're going to build for a game, rule #1 is to study the unholy shit out of the engine you're using in the game... or else you're going to be in for a whole lot of crying bouts. Some are tolerant, some are damned tight (e.g. a lot of console game engines can get really bitchy about what they'll accept and what they won't).

/P

Quote - Conniekat,

His name is Vincent. He is yapping on about himself over here.

Ah, cool, thanks for clarifying :)

So... if I already invested in Cararra Pro, and Vue, and have P7 and D|S and Max...
Is there any reason I would want Poser Pro?
Other then to, let's say 'collect them all' so I can talk about it here?

BTW she's 10k polys and anatomically correct.

Quote - Plain Jane says "EW!"

BTW she's 10k polys and anatomically correct.

Yup, you got that EW right Patorak, I mean, Plain Jane.

Hmmmm.  Interesting comments by all.  Poser Pro appears to be getting a mixed reception.  But what new software doesn't?

I must say that I'm not sensing the same level of community negativity as the prevailing negativity which accompanied the last three releases of Poser.  I......tend to take that as a good sign.  So far, the biggest general gripe seems to be over the "Gumby" figures that have been introduced with Poser Pro.  The second biggest gripe seems to be over pricing.

The first gripe about the figures is a legitimate one, IMO -- although I feel that it's a gripe which can be overblown.  At least that's true for me.  As I hinted above: SM might have business reasons for doing things the way that they have, vis-a-vis the content offerings in this release.  Whether or not SM was correct in their decisions others will have to judge.  I'll still be concentrating on the DAZ figures inside of Poser Pro, so it's just not a major issue to me:  although it is for others.

The second gripe about pricing is an illegitimate one, IMO.  $200 seems quite reasonable to me.  It's about the price of a couple of fairly fancy restaurant meals -- or perhaps ~four tanks of gasoline at current pump prices. [Edited to add: or one trip to the grocery store.]  So I don't get the basis of the "costs too much" gripe.  Nor do I agree with it.

Unfortunately for me, while I've downloaded & installed Poser Pro, I just don't have the time to do much with it this week: especially as I'll be traveling this weekend.  And my normal weekdays don't permit for much "Poser playtime" -- if any.  sigh  It'll be a bit before I can form my own opinion of this release.  But in the meantime: it's interesting to see the thoughts of some of the pros in this game.

Quote -
I must say that I'm not sensing the same level of community negativity as the prevailing negativity which accompanied the last three releases of Poser.

IMHO, I think that Poser 5 was the only release that really generated anything more than the usual grumbling. This was due to P5 being hyped beyond belief, only to fail miserably.

P6 actually behaves itself just fine (at least the Mac version does), and from most folks whom I consider credible, P7 is pretty solid as well, stability-wise.

I suspect that, aside from the bolt-ons, PoserPro (v 1.0?) is pretty much the same stable codebase as Poser 7 in most respects.

/P

My problem is that the features in Pro Base, the version that would suit most of us, are the sort of features that I would expect to see in Poser 8. If these features are not in Poser 8, other features will be, meaning that I would have to switch between two version of Poser to get use of the different features. Alternatively, a new version of Pro may be released along with the new version of Poser. Do I switch upgrade paths now? Will I need to buy the pro pro if pro base doesn't have the same upgrade path? I don't want to pay an extra $50 for a bunch of real pro featues that I won't use. So, do I pay $150 now for Poser 7.9 or wait a while longer for Poser 8?

I think we need some clear statement regarding where Poser is going.

Err, you do know that unless you're doing strict 2D animations/sprites from it, you're gonna smack right up against a concrete wall of copyright, yes? I'm very sure that SM would have a bit of a problem with some schmuck taking their meshes and redistributing them in a game (even as a mere MOD of an existing game).

As stated before the figures were released with a purpose in mind and have a new distribution license. Doesn't any take the time to read information anymore? Straight from SM's website:

New Distributable ContentPoser Pro comes with a set of four re-distributable 3D characters to help users save production time. This set includes a male and female figure in both medium and low resolutions. These professionally modeled 3D characters include facial morph targets to create expressions and visemes to synch with imported sound files in the Talk Designer, plus they are Face Room ready.

Use these four figures as a starting point and customize them to create your own real-time 3D or game characters. Modify these fully-rigged characters with Poser Pro’s powerful magnet deformers or sculpt detail using the Morphing Tool. Import them into the Face Room and modify their geometry and texture to match your imported facial photographs. When you’re finished, these four figures can be exported via Poser Pro’s many geometry export options including COLLADA, or hosted via PoserFusion plug-ins, and re-distributed for royalty–free use in your project.

Distributable Content Includes:

• 2 Male Figure Versions (LowResMale, MedResMale).
• 2 Female Figure Versions (LowResFemale, MedResFemale).
• Developmental OBJ geometry files for all for figures.
• Figures are Face Room ready.
• Figures include facial morphs for expressions and synthesizing speech.

Note about this license..... we will soon see DAZ do the same thing (since they always copy everything someone else does), they will release new figures with new distribution licenses. SM and DAZ both desperately want to get a foothold in the game design community. EF started this move, SM followed through and DAZ has copied the move (they've already announced it). The poserverse is too small for all the players to operate, so they look for new markets. Unfortunally as usual, they all go into the same thing, since only a handful of people in the poserverse are really innovative, the rest just follows.

@ Bagginsbill,

BB, I want to come back to the displacementmap/ gamma correction issue. I said that they fixed the problem with saved poserfiles, but I found out that it isn't solved when you save a character to the figure library. When you load a saved character, all the gamma setting of the displacementmap textures (and all the other texturemaps)  are set to default. So this is still a problem.

regards,

Bopper.

I've just spent a few minutes reading the tutorials on morphing, normal mapping and texturing. This is the final image in the tutorial.

Since the image is such an eloquent rebuttal to views expressed in previous posts I am going to make the assumption that Smith Micro will not mind me posting it here. If that is a problem I'm sure that they will tell me.

Again if this does not suit your work flow, or if you have no intention of learning how to use the resources then do not purchase Poser Pro. Move on, let it go, do something different.

Me? This has exciting possibilities. It opens up new creative avenues that I am eager to explore.

*Again if this does not suit your work flow, or if you have no intention of learning how to use the resources then do not purchase Poser Pro. Move on, let it go, do something different.

*I'm glad there's more PP then these figures :-) You don't need to skip PP just because you don't want to learn how to use these figures, there are other great things in it. Your statement is a bit to far fetched. For me PP is about the new features and improvements it offers, not about these figures, if they weren't in PP, I stil would have purchased it.

Wonder how long and who it will be to offer for sale a texture and map set to turn the gumbies into Cool Characters (tm)? Cool work, Phil. So how long do you think the basic WW support will take? For that matter, with the lower polycount, dynamic should work a bit better on the gumbies, shouldn't it? Now, if E-on implements COLLADA in the next Infinite version....

Lower poly count for collision is certainly faster, but depending on the mesh it can be less accurate - depending on what you want for "better".

Thing is, bagginsbill, that I don't recall any promotional material that promised new content in terms of figures.  Features, yes, content I don't recall.

But still, what's a new Poser release without a ton of complaints! :-)

ttfn

John

Low poly proxies work perfectly for strand based hair. I often use kirwyn's dynamic hair products, and they simulate FAST! Often several frames per second. If you let the hair collide with the full mesh, a single frame can take minutes to calculate.

For dynamic cloth, I prefer collision against the original mesh, The precision of the full mesh collisions is far more important with dynamic cloth than with dynamic hair.

To me...guess there was something there about new figures.  I didn't pay it much heed cause I have  a good library of stuff so that wasn't what I was looking for.

One comment about a post above that said that the writer expected that the feature set in PP was what they expected in P8.

For what it's worth, I'm thinking that there will be two streams of Poser now, the Pro stream and the regular stream. That's not all that unusual in 3D software, I've noticed.

ttfn

John

Quote - The new figures.... much has been said about them and most people completely ignore or have no clue what they're meant to be. These new figures are for game engines & visualization applications and such, so need to be low poly and using as little textures as possible. They're not created with the regular Poser user in mind, but with a completely different purpose. They also have a different distribution agreement, not the one for regular poser models. Good move from SM, but a bit too late for me, I wished they would have done this 1-2 years ago.

Quote - Note about this license..... we will soon see DAZ do the same thing (since they always copy everything someone else does), they will release new figures with new distribution licenses. SM and DAZ both desperately want to get a foothold in the game design community. EF started this move, SM followed through and DAZ has copied the move (they've already announced it). The poserverse is too small for all the players to operate, so they look for new markets. Unfortunally as usual, they all go into the same thing, since only a handful of people in the poserverse are really innovative, the rest just follows.

aeilkema - enough with the game design thing already - the 'people who complain about them have no clue what theyre for' is getting insulting.
several people have explained why noone is going to start with a 10-15k nude base model to create game meshes from. they still need to be clothed, reshaped, optimized from the ground up, re-UV mapped. if someone possesses the range of skills to take one of those figures and optimize it into a game model then they also posess the skills to just make it from scratch and will undoubtedly do so because it would be easier.

as for the license,  i do agree and im very happy to see licensing that gives the content creator more freedom. i dont see how daz following suit would be such a bad thing. daz has been offering low-res meshes for many years now, and currently forms the backbone of poser with the vicky and michael lines. you can hardly say that all they do is 'copy others', much less smith micro.

i think the idea of including low and medium res redistributable figures with poser pro is a very good one. my only gripe is that they look rushed and unprofessional.

*i think the idea of including low and medium res redistributable figures with poser pro is a very good one. my only gripe is that they look rushed and unprofessional.

Yep!  I agree!  I think those figures are a joke!  I mean us "indies" half to go through a mountain of crap with beta testing and everything to get our figures to market and here SM just spreads their cheeks and shits them out!  BTW they look like they were the base meshes that Don and Judy were developed from. 

Quote - But still, what's a new Poser release without a ton of complaints! :-)

for the time being, my livelihood is tethered to poser. the success of poser, renderosity, daz, etc is in my best interests.
my 'complaint' is that poser already has a very poor reputation amongst the general 3D communities -- if it wants to draw in a larger audience and be accepted as a viable 3D tool then it needs to clean up, modernize, and start looking more polished. this is definitely not the way to do it.

i had a faint hope that when smith micro took over we might start moving in that direction. i literally recoiled in horror when i saw the 'new poser figures'.

if these are truly 'so easy to improve' - then why the hell didnt their creator or smith micro improve them before releasing them? why release them like this?

Quote - *Poser Pro comes with a set of four re-distributable 3D characters to help users save production time. This set includes a male and female figure in both medium and low resolutions. These professionally modeled 3D characters include facial morph targets to create expressions and visemes to synch with imported sound files in the Talk Designer, plus they are Face Room ready.

Interesting. I believe that I'd stand corrected on the licensing issue, but I'd want to see the actual license and not the marketing blurb before committing to anything. I would also still avoid blindly using them for games development for reasons outlined before.

Quote - Note about this license..... we will soon see DAZ do the same thing (since they always copy everything someone else does), they will release new figures with new distribution licenses. SM and DAZ both desperately want to get a foothold in the game design community.

You really missed the point: You always, always, ALWAYS make sure the mesh matches your engine's capabilities and limits. I don't think that happened here.

There also aren't many game engines out there (probably two at the most, and one of those experimental) that can handle 10k (naked) polys per mesh in a realtime game environment. (Also, does someone have a wireframe shot of these things? Because if they're built out of quads, you've pretty much wiped out most of the game engines out there for suitability).

I don't see DAZ being as willing to simply toss out some meshes and say "put these in yer game, d00dz!!!11!!" Sure, they bought a games package, but I suspect they're going to do more than just toss in some meshes and say "okay - got for it!"

/P

I thought Poser Pro would be more along the lines of Quidam.  http://www.n-sided.com/

Robert: *$200 seems quite reasonable to me.  It's about the price of a couple of fairly fancy restaurant meals -- or perhaps ~four tanks of gasoline at current pump prices.

*You live in paradise - paid yesterday the equivalent of about 180 USD for

                                                                      ONE

filling of 85 litres.

And having played around with PP a little - I would have paid the 200 bucks with a dirty grin for renderqueuing/-batching  and -farming only. The only problem I am having now, is, how do I make look the results like Poser.... ;-}

And I don't understand all the anger - can't rememenber that one came along and forced me to buy it.*

Quote - Lower poly count for collision is certainly faster, but depending on the mesh it can be less accurate - depending on what you want for "better".

Not sure what aspect you're speaking of...  if it's in a game, you usually skip the poly -counting and just use a hypothetical sphere (or at most a 'bounding box') around the entire body to do your calcs. Or were you talking about hair/clothing? IF the latter then yep - less polys mean less time spent in making calculations to an extent (the clothing and/or hair can be converted into a spring-loaded object which cuts down on at least half the polys that need to be checked against :) ).

--

Quote - if these are truly 'so easy to improve' - then why the hell didnt their creator or smith micro improve them before releasing them? why release them like this?

I think I see both you and Phil's arguments, and perhaps the best compromise would've been for SM to include some presets - to shape the characters into something useful-looking, so as to give folks an idea of what's possible.

/P

Quote - And I don't understand all the anger - can't rememenber that one came along and forced me to buy it.

speaking for myself, there is no 'anger' - just frustration. corners were cut and the end result will be that poser will become even more of a laughing stock than it already is.

Quote - I think I see both you and Phil's arguments, and perhaps the best compromise would've been for SM to include some presets - to shape the characters into something useful-looking, so as to give folks an idea of what's possible.

IMO thats like people who apply for an art job, and submit their portfolio with all of their earliest, beginner works for the prospective employer to wade through. 'it shows progression'.

bah, noone cares about progression -- they want to see what you can do NOW - out of the box.

'here are some models packaged with Poser Pro ($500). dont worry if they look inhuman out of the box, because they are easy to fix'.
*

The tutorials are very informative. I feel that they very clearly show how these figures are intended to be used.

I grant you that without that information and possibly a limited understanding of topics such as Normal Mapping, it would be very easy to just point the finger and wonder what is going on.

Sadly even when the information is available there will still be those who stick tenaciously to their original end of the stick and wave it wildly in the air.

Poser Pro comes with all the legacy content back to Poser 4. I do not feel that these figures will make or break it. They are just one part of a very large library of content. Yes there will be those that totally fail to understand their purpose. Some of those folks will be highly vocal, such is life.

Hi PhilC

Could you post a wireframe pic of these figures?

Phil -- poser is marketed as a human posing/animation tool for visualization, fine art pose models, digital art, etc. and the figures are lacking in that area. its not even about finding them appealing or not, but that there are many features on them that are inaccurate anatomically.
more attention should have been paid to their base shape rather than shifting the onus onto the customer to correct these issues.

based on your defense of them i am starting to think you were involved in their creation. in that case i sincerely apologize for being so critical -- i highly respect you and your work.  you are one of the pioneers of poser content and you are the last person here that i wish to offend.
on the other hand, i am very concerned about the future of poser and i believe that releasing them in this form was a big mistake.

Well it's all a bit moot anyway - it's packaged and released.  Unlikely they're ever going to modify them once they're final, look at the buggy data that's still in the P6 figures (wonder if that's addressed in Poser Pro?)

Well,  I guess if the figures have proper edgelooping,  then whipping them into shape is only a matter of developing a deformation cage.  If not re-topo is no problem either.  I could do it and release them as freeebies.

Quote - IMHO, I think that Poser 5 was the only release that really generated anything more than the usual grumbling. This was due to P5 being hyped beyond belief, only to fail miserably.

P6 actually behaves itself just fine (at least the Mac version does), and from most folks whom I consider credible, P7 is pretty solid as well, stability-wise.

I'd agree with you that P5 was by far and away the worst-received of all of the Poser releases out of the starting gate.  And it took a good while for the P5 problems to be rectified afterwards.  P6 -- I recall a fair amount of moaning over its initial release: most of the griping centering around the "Poser 6 is Poser 5.5; nothing more than what Poser 5 should have been; it's a service release for Poser 5" type of remarks.......but there was plenty of such grousing to be had.

Regarding Poser 7, I beg to differ.  Out of the box P7 wasn't very stable -- P7 had many inexplicable crashes to the desktop.  On the other hand, I have to give EF credit: they had fixed the problem within approx. 2-3 months of P7's initial release.  So that was good.  P7 pretty much took over after that: but you still saw lots of "I'll never buy P7!!!!!" types of forum comments at the time.  Still do occasionally.  And you also see the "Poser 7 is nothing but Poser 6.5" comments from time-to-time.

We've got a formula to follow, don't 'cha know?

Quote - I suspect that, aside from the bolt-ons, PoserPro (v 1.0?) is pretty much the same stable codebase as Poser 7 in most respects.

/P

Yep -- Poser Pro has likely benefited from Poser 7's SR's.  So Poser Pro gets the advantage of prior experience.

Heh -- so Poser Pro is Poser 7.5...........

From what I've seen in the forums thus far: Poser Pro is doing well overall.  As discussed throughout this thread: the main complaint seems to be about content.

Quote - Robert: *$200 seems quite reasonable to me.  It's about the price of a couple of fairly fancy restaurant meals -- or perhaps ~four tanks of gasoline at current pump prices.

*You live in paradise - paid yesterday the equivalent of about 180 USD for

                                                                      ONE

filling of 85 litres.

Whoa.  I suppose that a lot of people use Vespa's or perhaps bicycles?

Quote - And having played around with PP a little - I would have paid the 200 bucks with a dirty grin for renderqueuing/-batching  and -farming only. The only problem I am having now, is, how do I make look the results like Poser.... ;-}

Yes -- that's a tough one for me, too. 

Quote - And I don't understand all the anger - can't rememenber that one came along and forced me to buy it.

I haven't actually noted high levels of anger with this release -- certainly not when compared to previous releases.  This one actually seems to be doing surprisingly well -- the Poser crowd (read: mob) tends to be a tough audience.  They are about as friendly as a Comedy Club crowd on amateur night.  So far: the anger has been pretty muted over Poser Pro.  That amounts to high praise in this setting.

Quote - Here is another example.

Again if this does not suit your work flow, or if you have no intention of learning how to use the resources then do not purchase Poser Pro. Move on, let it go, do something different.

Me? This has exciting possibilities. It opens up new creative avenues that I am eager to explore.

Did you create the displacements inside of Poser Pro?  I didn't see it advertised anywhere that it has that ability.

Quote - > Quote - And I don't understand all the anger - can't rememenber that one came along and forced me to buy it.

speaking for myself, there is no 'anger' - just frustration. corners were cut and the end result will be that poser will become even more of a laughing stock than it already is.

Yeah, I can see that happening :(
With having one foot in poserdom, and one foot in higher end 3D, I can totally see Poser Pro not cutting it. Especially now with the 'pro' adjective in the name.

With my position in the 3D world, I was hoping that Poser Pro would be a step to push Poser little more into high end.  I don't see any features in it that make me interested in buing it.
By the time one becomes a content creator, you already acqire tools that do all the stuf that Poser Pro is just starting to offer.

Doesn't look like they did much to improve workflow and productivty (with the same ole interface)

If Poser Pro has other redeemable features that we're not noticing, they're doing a sucky job at advertizing them.

Quote - low res male after 10 minute tweak.

Tweaking inside of Poser Pro?
Does it offer any improved tweaking tools, above and beyond what P7 has?
Or did you have to go the same ole route of exporting to another 'sculpting' software?

Could you elaborate?

I did not create anything, The images are from the tutorial that comes with Poser Pro. The work flow in the given example includes using ZBrush and UV Mapper. I'm sure other work flows are possible.