Hi all,

theres a post in the 3d modelling forum about a dress moving when a mat-pose is applied.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2756383

I have checked the mat-pose , it looks ok, created by a hogsoft utility.

If anyone has any ideas the OP would be grateful for any help.

thanks

I have noticed that Poser sometimes makes your figure shift when you apply a material.  But I am pretty sure it is only temporary visual glitch because after it is done, it all returns to normal, it does not actually affect your keyframes.

I don't know if this is what you are talking about.

Hi I am the one having trouble....
The figure doesn't shift..it's the dress that shifts...and it's only at the thigh area...it moves the dress and if you don't reconform and try another it goes even worse until in the end it all blows out ( thats after applying the 6th texture)

It couldn't be in the cr2 could it?

I have had this happen once before and I had to scrap the item...I really would like to fathom out what is causing it!!

Thanks for any help

Sanbie

a conforming dress IS a figure. 

I don't know, If it is not the visual glitch that is your problem, then maybe you are actually applying a POSE FILE to the dress and it has been mislabeled as a MAT FILE.

Now you lost me...I made the mesh...conformed it etc...Then I sent it to my partner to make the extra textures for it...She has made mat files many times and has not had this problem before...

I tell you it's a total mystery!

Oh though I did notice...when I make the cr2 I make it  version4.1

I notice on the mat files it says version 5

Could this make a difference?
Though it didn't with any others that we have done...

Sanbie

I've seen it happen as well. I put a hair prop on something, then change the hair colour using a MAT pose, and the figure's foot moves. Damndest thing I've ever seen. Sometimes it'll move back, sometimes it wont.

I've heard about this happening before and had this problem as well - created a bike riding pose pose (not a MAT pose) - and when you go to use the pose it places the figure dead centre instead of in the correct postion. 

So is this a poser bug or something that can be fixed ?

I dont think it's a Poser bug so much as the pose itself not built properly. For example, when you apply some poses, the hair goes flying: that's not because of Poser -- it's because the pose creator built it by saving it from the POV of a particular body part instead of with "body" selected. Most people seem to understand that.

Quote - I dont think it's a Poser bug so much as the pose itself not built properly. ... it's because the pose creator built it by saving it from the POV of a particular body part instead of with "body" selected. Most people seem to understand that.

I didn't understand it, so I did some test saves - and each pose I saved was indentical, no matter what body part was selected before saving. Besides, markschum has examined the offending MAT pose and pronounced it free of pose information.

I vote for "Poser bug". ;-)

:: shrug:: I've had several instances where I have a character in the zero position and I add a hair prop (more often than not it's a hair prop that shows this), and once I move the character into certain positions, the hair goes flying. When I check, it seems that the hair hasnt been properly parented when it was saved as a smart prop, usually to something else, like the hip for example. Once I reparent it and save it again, the problem goes away. So I'm not convinced it's a Poser bug, but, hey, I could be wrong.

But that foot thing... arrgghh.

The mat pose in question has no positioning info that I can find , it was created with a Hogsoft utility, so I am giving them credit for getting it right. I didnt see any movement applying it to a figure either.

I would accept bug, but the OP says the problem gets progressively worse if you reapply the texture. Thats a very consistant bug. ;(

A random thought: does the pose have a "thighLength" line in it?
If so, what happens when you remove it?  This line is sort of boilerplate
but it certainly isn't needed for a MATpose.

It's all fixed...I started from the beginning again...We still have no idea what was done differently...because this time it all works fine!! Perhaps my poser had a hiccup at the time of conforming...who knows...But I have it working fine now!!

Thank you for all your imputs

Sanbie

thats excellent to hear.   if you kept the first attempt you could compare the two files and try to see whats different ...

Now why didn't I think of that....

Attached Link: ExamDiff

Thanks for that..Have downloaded :)

PoserPro on a Mac. If I turn IK off on the base figure, it normally stops this issue (most of the time)

@Sanbie
Hi, I have that problem that a MATpose is turning something in the legs also with your "Hooded Wintercoat Set". B.t.w. very fine clothing ...

I have looked to the MATposes but found no reason for the posing mismatch.

But looking to the CR2 I found 2 strange things.

First in both "Goal"-Props are a embedded geometrie of an ball (and also a extended shader-tree, I think).  I have never seen in any model to date that the "goal"-prop does include something.
Ok, I am not realy sure for what the "Goal"-props are realy necessary, so I was astonished to find something like a geometrie in that. I don't know how you rigged the models, but I rather sure that this was not by your intension, or am I wrong. Might be this could make some strange effects ???

Second thing is that most of your models come with a PMD-File. Though I not a friend of this, but it's ok.  But I find also all morph geometries in the CR2-File.
I have read and checked that this is a specific bug with Poser 7 SR 3. P7SR3 isn't erasing the geometrie information from the CR2 when building its PMD file. Poser 6 and Poser 7 up to SR2 are doing this correct.
Loading the Wintercoat with Poser 6 and saving it under a new name with building PMD made a different CR2 file as expacted. But there are not only diferences by the morph geometrie but also differences to some other parameters, e.g. KD-Colors etc.
So to store the same model with P6 and P7SR3 and then examine the CR2's diferences might bring some ideas why there are that misbehavior with MATposes.

@SeanMartin
Hair props often goes flying off although correctly parented then using pose files PZ2.
Mostly it's cause the people creating the pose have forgotten NOT to save the hair with the figures parameters. If such a pose file is used and the hair is a other than that at the pose creation (that should happen often ...) the hair reacts to the wrong parameters of the file.

Greatings Jo

Sorry I never saw this message before...I have been away..just got back...
And wow thank you for your reply...now I will have to look into what I am doing...
I use AutoGroup Editor  then when I import to poser I use OBJ2CR2 to make conforming and use Morph designer to make the morphs...
I do notice sometimes that the item is fine until I conform it then it goes funny sometimes...I have to delete it all and start again...Mmmm maybe there is an update that I haven't got...
I am bad like that...once I get something I work with it and forget there could be updates!!!
The PMD file is made through poser and I have now found how to turn this off..so that's no more!!

I will have to look into more as I spend enough time making the items...let alone having to do them all over again!!

Thanks again for your answer
Sanbie

No problem ... normally I look throu the forum only on weekend ... otherwise to timeexpensive, to much interesting things to read ...

But if you really want to rework all you did may I beg for something at the Wintercloak ???

The middle top of the hood seems a bit to much backwards compared with the left and right side.
As I remember to my anoraks in youthtime mostly the problem was that that part was falling into the face ... opposite to your version ... and been rather cold and snowing it was ok so ... :closedeyes:  So coming with that middle top a bit more to front ( plus on the z-axis) would be more in reality.

Also a morph to lower the hood behind the head would be a very very nice thing ....

All other a fine oiece of cloth with that nice fur boardings ... specialy no going to X-Mas in the cold time ... :biggrin:

But this is only if realy want to rework something, so no urgent neccessariety ...

OBJ2CR2 is a well known tool from PhilC, I think, he is very generous in helping with problems and that geometries in the goal entries might been produced by that tool. So you should ask him directly or on his own forum http://www.philc.net

Greatings Jo

Yeah PhilC is lovely and has helped me tremendously...I must admit to going to his forum heaps of time...and the poor dear has even emailed me trying to help me!!

I know it must be something simple that I am doing...sometimes I start again from the mapping...But I must admit that sometimes..especially because of the joint editor ...I get frustrated and put it through WardRobe Wizard...which regroups and morphs the cr2...Most times that fixes it...

Yeah I did ask on PhilC's forum how to do the hood morph like that...But I got no reply!! So unfortunately I still don't know how!!!

But I think I am learning more and more...and getting to understand the how of things now...

Sanbie

Attached Link: http://www.philc.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2296

If you need any more information, please ask...

Oh well pickle mine...I must be blind...I NEVER saw that!! Thank you...

Now I just have to figure out what he is talking about... ROFL

Sanbie

Ok I have a query...obviously this problem is in my cr2...so I remade from the mapping and now I have a new cr2..and yep when I apply the textures when the item is in a pose...It moves!!

I am wondering if someone can look at my cr2 and tell me where the offending line/s are...and what I have to change them to...That way if it happens again I will know what to do...:)

Sanbie

I did the radical method according to the old rule "All not paying rent has to go out"

I took your hooded winterwear - jacket and pants - as example.

First eliminated all that geometrie in the both goal props as also the morphs (value parms) in that both. But only the geo and the morph's not that actors as such !

Second all the actors came out which are not needed. So for the jacket you have geometries for forearms over breast to hip and neck plus head. For correct posing you need 1 more actor at each border so hands and tighs remain also. This is cause a moved child, e.g. tight, is influencing aslo his parent, in this example hip. Shins for example are useless cause tight has no geo to be influenced.
So following this guide in jacket all shin and toe actor are eliminated, in the pants toe actors and all above chest (last geo is in abdomen), e.g. collar, shoulder, forearm, hand, neck and head, is obsolate. Doing so you need to erase in 3 areas, first there the geo-references stand in the top region. In the middle all that actor definitions completely and rather at the end all respective welding informations.
Additional you have to find in the borderparts the respective joint and smooth parameters.
Fore example the now gone shins (in jacket) have such parameters in the tight actors. After deleting the shin actors you should easily find them if you search for "shin" with the text editor.
Eliminate these parameter blocks complete but only this so don't touch the rest of the tight actor.

This up to now seem to be more of cosmetic value but otherhand all useless things in such definitions need memory to be loaded and also time while poser is recalculating his figures if xou move them. If you see the "fater" ladies like V3 or V4 (compared to P4 Posette) and the biger and biger becoming cloth figures (morphs !!) and also the needed props and figures for a scenery then you know that poser is  pleased  about all useless things it's needs not to load and calculate.

So while doing so I found at the end of the welding section the definition of the "inkyChains" and thats the real point of all the annoyance.

That inkychains are the definitions for the inverse kinematic. This is not really neccessary for any conforming clothing. The main sense of the IK is to pose and/or animated easier. So you need only to move foot ... shin and tight follow accordingly. Without IK you have to pose all 3 separately. But no conformed clothing will be moved by itself. You move it's parent figure and the clothing follows. In that way the inkychain in the clothing is useless.
Ok, might be you want to have a empty shirt walking ... :sneaky: ... but also than it's better to conform it to a master figure and make that invisible.

So I first tried to stop that IK via unchecking in the poser menu ... it worked !!! The movement by matposes was gone. (see image) Also you might see the small difference if only conformed with IK on or off.
But this solution is only temporary. Although there is the first parameter in the inkychain definition (on or off) that should correspond to the checkmarks in menu. But it doesn't work. Poser somethere sets that IK's by default legs ON and arms OFF and the settings from the CR2 are ignored. For Example the original DAZ V4 CR2 comes with all inky's OFF but after loading V4 the default is set with legs ON.

So the only longtime solution is deleting the inkychains completely from the CR2.
If doing so also the "inkyparent" and "noninkyparent" parameters might be killed in the CR2.
These parameters are defined in the goal actors of the IK, the foots and hands.

B.t.w. referencing "Secrets of figure creation with Poser 5" (the best and only ?? book covering this theme) that inkyparents are foreseen that a moving of the figure by BODY with IK on lets the hand and/or foots goes with that movement and the figure is placed total, not that the IK goals keep left. So normally the inkyparent should be BODY and the noninkyparent the normal next actor, e.g. the shin for a foot.

In your CR2 both the inkyparent AND the noninkyparent are set to the same, the next actor.
If looking on my image you see the difference if using a matpose the first time.

Now I believe that this should solve that problem for ever ... ok, up to the next poser release ... but show me any bugfree software ... :tt2:

But it's not a Poser 7 bug !!! This also happens in Poser 6 in the absolut same manner, might be also in P5, didn't try that.

If you ask why, I don't know but as software developer I think that poser each time you change something has to recalculate a lot internal. If the material is change it has to go throu the complete figures geometrie to map new textures correctly. In this procedure there must be a flaw in connection with IK AND the legs or feet cause that effect doesn't happen with the arms and hands. So it's not the IK procedure as such but something in there if called for the legs.
If I would be the beta tester I would give this advise to the programmer and if I would be the programmer than I would know where to search.
But my experience with hotlines and/or helpdesks of all levels are such worse that I don't while away my time to report such things ... either I find a workaround or have to live with until next update. My last try with such a theme is 3 years back and lasted for 1 year and in the end the hotline gave me a brandnew workaround ... yeah, it worked but I did so by myself 1 year back as the bug occured. If I had waited so long my customer had been gone and my earnings had been buried ...

I hope this might help you out .. so not need to delete all, only some small text editor work.
If you want the edited CR2's please give me a PM with a e-mail address where I shall post them.

Cheers Jo

OMG your wonderful...Thank you soooo much for taking the time to look at this for me...

I have no idea how to PM you from here..but if you can send me the info to sanbie@gmail.com
I will be forever in your debt!!!

Thank You again!!

Sanbie

Your welcome ... CR2's are on the way ...

I hope further for a moveable hood sometimes ... :tt1:

Jo

Thank you Jo...Now off to study them!!!

Sanbie