so play time!!!
Here is an image of M3 using FS4, no tweaks yet.
Did make the texture because I prefer to do them differently than FS.

Tomorrow it's back to the sweat shop...sigh.

Quote - Had to take today off from working around the house except for meal preparation.
My sister came over yesterday and we moved a lot of stuff around to make some room here.
It hurt me...ugh!

so play time!!!
Here is an image of M3 using FS4, no tweaks yet.
Did make the texture because I prefer to do them differently than FS.

Tomorrow it's back to the sweat shop...sigh.

Well done, Miss Moneypenny. Now my martini, please - shaken not stirred!
Laslo

This is still a work in progress and lots to do on a texture for her.

Quote - Hi;
I did say that I'd post an image or so of my next morph with FS, latest version.
Here she is with a comparison photo.

This is still a work in progress and lots to do on a texture for her.

Wow, this is good stuff! I really like the composition with the hand in front of her. Also the softness of the render - very nice. One question" Poser or DAZ Studio?

Laslo

Poser. :)

I've been experimenting with FaceShop4 (standalone with Poser) for a good few days now. I've tried a number of different approaches with reference photos but have really been somewhat disappointed with the results thus far.
This experience is best typified with the approach suggested by santinocorleone, where the reference photo is manipulated to be exactly symmetrical . I took a straight on headshot photo into an image editor where I positioned a carefully planned out set of tiny points on one side of the face, then mirrored it to give a perfectly symmetrical image. The image was perfectly square and the center line exactly in the middle. I imported the resulting Jpeg and my cosen head obj into FaceShop and (very meticulously - I took a great deal of time over this) positioned the first set of dots.
Now...this is where I realised there were going to be problems, because although my reference image was a very good guide for dot placement in the reference display, the head obj display has no such guides. I don't know if you can display a mapped head (with the relevant dot locations). Anyway, although the head obj starts off directly face on in the display, even with very very careful placement  (trying for the same symmetrical placement as in the reference) after the first set of dots were placed FaceShop still rotated the obj head prior to the next  stage. So this makes further accurate placement of dots and curves very difficult.
Ok, so I went on to complete all the dot and curve guides (including placing curves on a profile shot), and the resulting morph was predictably asymmetrical (by miles). I'm kind of assuming that the mirror function doesn't actually mirror the morph in FaceShop, at least it hasn't done so on any of mine so far. It's very frustrating because one side of the morph actually looks frighteningly accurate (it's a self portrait BTW).

I so wish there was a way to 1. display a map on the head obj in Faceshop, 2. Fix the display angles to orthographic projections of the head obj in FaceShop so I can accurately place the dots to achieve symmetry.

If I've missed a Faceshop feature that enables me to do these things I apologise and will experiment further, but for now I think FaceShop lacks a certain functionality to construct the quality of morphs I'm looking for. It's full of potential, but needs further development before it becomes truly useful for me.  

Also, I've had a number of FaceShop saved files that have corrupted, especially after using a profile image in addition to the front view to add curves. They sometimes load with black mangled shapes in the head obj display and cannot be reworked.
I've had head objects export from FaceShop with missing polys (corresponding to material groups.
I too found the documentation somewhat lacking for standalone use.

Also when using as a standalone, you can't just load FaceShop and then load a FaceShop File, you have to load a reference photo and head obj every time.

I'm guessing that this app is a little more dedicated to working with D/S than as a standalone.

Quote - I've been experimenting with FaceShop4 (standalone with Poser) for a good few days now. I've tried a number of different approaches with reference photos but have really been somewhat disappointed with the results thus far.
This experience is best typified with the approach suggested by santinocorleone, where the reference photo is manipulated to be exactly symmetrical . I took a straight on headshot photo into an image editor where I positioned a carefully planned out set of tiny points on one side of the face, then mirrored it to give a perfectly symmetrical image. The image was perfectly square and the center line exactly in the middle. I imported the resulting Jpeg and my cosen head obj into FaceShop and (very meticulously - I took a great deal of time over this) positioned the first set of dots.
Now...this is where I realised there were going to be problems, because although my reference image was a very good guide for dot placement in the reference display, the head obj display has no such guides. I don't know if you can display a mapped head (with the relevant dot locations). Anyway, although the head obj starts off directly face on in the display, even with very very careful placement  (trying for the same symmetrical placement as in the reference) after the first set of dots were placed FaceShop still rotated the obj head prior to the next  stage. So this makes further accurate placement of dots and curves very difficult.
Ok, so I went on to complete all the dot and curve guides (including placing curves on a profile shot), and the resulting morph was predictably asymmetrical (by miles). I'm kind of assuming that the mirror function doesn't actually mirror the morph in FaceShop, at least it hasn't done so on any of mine so far. It's very frustrating because one side of the morph actually looks frighteningly accurate (it's a self portrait BTW).

I so wish there was a way to 1. display a map on the head obj in Faceshop, 2. Fix the display angles to orthographic projections of the head obj in FaceShop so I can accurately place the dots to achieve symmetry.

If I've missed a Faceshop feature that enables me to do these things I apologise and will experiment further, but for now I think FaceShop lacks a certain functionality to construct the quality of morphs I'm looking for. It's full of potential, but needs further development before it becomes truly useful for me.  

OK, it seems that you have a hard time aligning the photo and the 3D mesh (that's what dots do). There are little tricks here (see the enclosed video via the video/arrow button).
One trick is this: if you don't see an ear, try to guess its location.
If you have a straight head-on shot, just bypass the whole dot system, the default is also straigh on.
For version FS 4.5 we do plan a manual way to rotate heads in order to align to photos (similar to how it is now working with the profile image). For now, I agree that this is a weak point.
As far as saving .FAC files - I never do those. I usually just save heads as OBJ.
I hope this helps.
BTW: don't just give up - there are thousands of users who learned and using FS.
One more thing: using it as a DAZ plugin (and without turning on Classic 3.5) many people get instant good results (this is the method where you pick 3 points and let the computer do the rest:-).

Laslo

Thanks for the reply Laslo.

How does one bypass the dots system (in standalone mode)? As soon as I load my straight on ref and head obj a dialogue pops up with the dot system. I can't proceed until I've placed 15 dots initially (which don't include locating the curves for the brows, nose, mouth and face contours)? Surely I won't get an accurate morph if these arn't placed. I've tried this with and without ticking the 'Classic 3.5' box.
Btw, I'm importing Apollo's head into Faceshop (which probably means the bypass thing isn't possible - in any case, I think I'd still need to push some points around).

Is there any point to the FaceShop save files if they don't really work?

The manual head rotation will be a huge advantage. I'd also suggest a true orthographic system as well specifically for use with straight on and profile photos? This is a tried and tested means of establishing points accurately between a reference and a 3d mesh. TBH I kind of thought FaceShop would be more solidly based around this concept.

The ability to mirror the morph in FaceShop would also be a huge step forward.

But you can, Carodan, you certainly can ....mirror morphs galore!
Pls. watch the demo video included with FaceShop.
Also the manual.
Laslo

Why can I not import the default FSP 3.7 as a morph on V4.2 in Poser 7?

If I download d/s to use FSP can I export an .obj from d/s to use as my morph in P7?

Momodot,

Somehow D/S and Poser use different coordinates.
Hence, if you export/import between these two, you get the jumpy long neck and jumpy eyes:-)
So, the best is to follow the export first, FS, import back rule.
It is all nicely illustrated on the "How-to" videos.
Pls private message me and I'll give you the URL  to the videos (otherwise I'll be kicked out of Rendo).
Laslo

Laslo - this must be something to do with using a head other than V4 or M4 in standalone mode, but the mirror function definitely does not mirror the morph for me, only the texture. I've been through the entire process dozens of times now (I revisited this today) and not once has the mirror function mirrored the geometry - whichever direction.
I've watched  the demo video quite a few times, even written down the process so I can follow it step by step. I really am very methodical.
The one thing I haven't as yet done is to try this as a D/S plugin, but to be honest I really don't want to have to install it on my system at present.

I think I also mentioned in an email about resulting morph targets seeming to have some rotation/twisting as I apply them. I've been noticing this more and more. The whole face appears to twist and contort as I apply the morph from FaceShop. It's almost as if it inherits an aspect of the rotation of the preview of the head obj in FaceShop. Sounds crazy, I know.

I'll post some images tomorrow to illustrate.

Look, pls. save the files as .FAC and send them to me to info@abalonellc.com along with the original photos. I am here to help:-)
Laslo

Laslo - I've sent you an email detailing one of my Standalone FaceShop/Poser experiences with an attached zip containing all the relevant files and illustrations of that process.

Great explanation. Unfortunately, the enclosed zip has a virus, so my computer refused to download it.
Can you send me single jpg files instead?
Thanks so much for all this work!!!
Laslo

I sent them again as single files. Apologies for that - my visus scanner detects no virus in either the outgoing mail or zip. I know sometimes firewalls interpret zips as potential threats.

Wow! That is a very good result!

Carodan,

This is great!
Could you also post an image complete with texture?
I am curious to see how it turned out...
Laslo

Carodan,

Hate to nag, but did you do a full render of this item?
I'd love to see it posted here...

Laslo

Laslo - sorry for not responding sooner.

Unfortunately I never developed this particular morph to a full textured render. I never did really manage to mirror it properly in FaceShop and although it isn't explicit in the untextured render, the depth (z) aspect from my profile reference in FaceShop ended up twisting the whole face and then failed to export properly (missing polys corresponding to Apollos beard material group).

My final self portrait  (my current profile) was created the old fashioned way using a mixture of Apollos head morphs, magnets and the P7 morph brush.

I do hope FaceShop continues to develop - for now I've had to put it away but I'd like to pick it up again (probably when there are a few more features and the stability issues are fixed).

Hey Carodan, now that I've spotted your real picture - While I love your portraits, you didn't quite do yourself justice with the self portrait.  You're much more handsome IRL !!!!!!!!!

Quote - I've found that when my morphs start getting lumpy it's due to me not placing the dots or lines correctly.
If I get tired and my eyes get tired, I make errors.
but when I'm having a good day and get the placements right, I get a really good morph.

This program is like any other, it takes patience, practice and depends on the user.
some are comfortable with it, others aren't.

I so want the latest version but with Christmas close, all my spare cash goes to buying my grand-babies some gifts.
And it will still be a lean Christmas for them...sigh.

I looked at the 3.5 version many moons ago, but decided against purchasing it primarly because a very small change in where those dots are placed results in a very large change in the resultant mesh.  I never could quite get the hang of placing dots so that the mesh would come out looking reasonably human, much less recognizable as a particular individual's face.

Sent an email about this to their "customer support" and never did get any response, apparently since I hadn't yet paid for the program I wasn't worth responding too, nothing I could find in the instructional video seemed to address this problem, and I simply didn't have several months of "play with it" time to work out dot placement on my own. 

So I decided against purchasing it and have generally recommend that others do the same, at least until they either fix the ultra picky dot placement problem or at the very least give you some idea on how to place dots properly.  The videos make it look falling off a log easy - it isn't, not by a long shot.  A minor varation one way or the other and you get a huge variation in the resultant mesh. 

Ok, I give these folks credit where credit is due, they certainly are one of the "better" applications available for doing this sort of thing and that is an accomplishment.  But from my experience their customer service wasn't just below par, it was practically non-existant, so that in and of itself made me decide to what until some other company came out with a similar product.    Still waiting, granted, but I'm not in a hurry to be anywhere. 

Quote - > Quote - I've found that when my morphs start getting lumpy it's due to me not placing the dots or lines correctly.

If I get tired and my eyes get tired, I make errors.
but when I'm having a good day and get the placements right, I get a really good morph.

This program is like any other, it takes patience, practice and depends on the user.
some are comfortable with it, others aren't.

I so want the latest version but with Christmas close, all my spare cash goes to buying my grand-babies some gifts.
And it will still be a lean Christmas for them...sigh.

I looked at the 3.5 version many moons ago, but decided against purchasing it primarly because a very small change in where those dots are placed results in a very large change in the resultant mesh.  I never could quite get the hang of placing dots so that the mesh would come out looking reasonably human, much less recognizable as a particular individual's face.

Sent an email about this to their "customer support" and never did get any response, apparently since I hadn't yet paid for the program I wasn't worth responding too, nothing I could find in the instructional video seemed to address this problem, and I simply didn't have several months of "play with it" time to work out dot placement on my own. 

So I decided against purchasing it and have generally recommend that others do the same, at least until they either fix the ultra picky dot placement problem or at the very least give you some idea on how to place dots properly.  The videos make it look falling off a log easy - it isn't, not by a long shot.  A minor varation one way or the other and you get a huge variation in the resultant mesh. 

Ok, I give these folks credit where credit is due, they certainly are one of the "better" applications available for doing this sort of thing and that is an accomplishment.  But from my experience their customer service wasn't just below par, it was practically non-existant, so that in and of itself made me decide to what until some other company came out with a similar product.    Still waiting, granted, but I'm not in a hurry to be anywhere. 

Hi,

Not sure where you get your customer service experience - I am at info@abalonellc.com and I answer EVERY email within 24 hrs latest.
In regard to make FS4 easier, we know have an easy option (default for V4 and M3, unless you activate "3.5 Classic" button. In this, you can't really go wrong, it is as simple as placing 3 dots.
I agree that the classic 3.5 option does require precise dot placing and some experimenting to getting it right.
Hope to come up with a better solution for FS 4.5.
Best,
Laslo

Some people who experienced problems (and even crashes) with FaceShop 4 were able to get it working properly by updating their video drivers.
It is now known that some nVidea drivers don't work:
Here is one:
"After updating the driver to 6.14.11.7798 version (the last

one) (Nvidia 9600Gt), the result is disastrous"

But:
"GOOD NEWS, with the last version of Nvidia driver (181.20), all seems to
be good.Stand alone and plug-in."

Also: I"I have GeForce 8600 GT, vs. 167.63. Works like a charm..."

There seem to be issues with nVidea, not ATI or others.
If you have problems, pls. consider changing drivers.
Laslo