I noted the thread on what we all want for Poser 8, and some of the suggestions were pretty good.

But frankly I dont hold a lot of hope when a company like DAZ continually calls the shot on what characters are supported and what are dropped. Everyone oohs and ahhs about Girl 4, but that has to be one of the ugliest damn things I've seen in a very long time, an insult to Gossen's original, which had wit and style. This absurdity has been filtered through the V4 mesh and shoehorned into something it's just not, and the result is a mess.

But everyone's going "Wow! Girl 4! Really rocks!" when it's just a blowup doll missing the air nozzle and pump. Between this and the near non-stop slutwear, I really have to ask: Is this really where we want this program to go? Are all the requests for better shadows and better animations really worth it when the results are nothing but more and more crap better suited for... well, I was going to say MAXIM, but at least MAXIM has pretty girls in it. These chicks are better suited for HUSTLER, if that.

Guys, we deserve better. This last go-round of female figures from DAZ has been nothing but insulting, with overly complicated installations, even more complicated upgrades, and "support" that's a repetition of "how little we can get away with modeling and stil call it a fancy party dress". It's made this program and its users an embarrassment, because right now, all it is is some middle-age guy's fantasy wet dream: hot yo mama sluts he can bend to his every will.

Dont give me the crap about the "beauty of the female form". Girl 4 is not beautiful. Girl 4 is an absurd little piece of nonsense, and yet it's another step down the same road that DAZ has been dragging us since V2.

And we have let them because the "market" says so. Well, hate to break it to ya, but if all the market is getting is sleaze-wear for character meshes with breasts like bowling balls, then you dont have a whole lot of choice to work with, do you?

Yeah, it's been like this since Poser 3. No surprise. But funny how it seems we just get narrower and narrower in our vision of things, to the point where we've really hit the nadir with Girl 4. I honestly thought V4.2  "Elite" was bad enough, but this new one seriously takes the cake and slathers it all over herself.

There. Rant over. Have fun picking it apart, as I"m sure some will. But damn it, someone had to say it.

I prefer the male figures.... never picked up the Elite morph set for V4.2

Got V4.2 primarily for the Vittorio4.2 by pdxjims.

Don't like the installation process in the new generation 4 figures from DAZ3D.  

Don't like the horrible updating process  - running that batch file inside the !DAZ filder under the Libraries folder, each time I need to "update" the figure.  ( Merchants defend it as almost a heaven-sent, but that's not being very user-friendly, is it now ? )

Somewhat amused that slutwear and almost-nekkid female warrior-wear are predominant on virtual shopshelves, yes indeed.

Not exactly feeling that I've been dragged along.  Would like to believe that I DO have some free will to decide whether I need or want any item for use with Poser ( or Daz Studio ).

Back to the issue of Girl 4 - OK, I got her gratis anyway.  Might as well see what I can use her for - someday, sometime, somehow....

I for one like the Girl4,V4.2, A4, M4, H4.
I do not see what is so wrong with the G4.
I for example NEVER liked Sara , the Poser original figures.
I do like Miki2 though.
I do like Kiki, Kit  but I soooo do not like those plushies
I like a lot of figures

What happend to Koshini I wonder and her boyfriend, are they stillout there?
Once upon a time we saw her in almost every render.
I think that figure for example is so darn ugly and I never knew what the fuss was about her.

I let them be though.

For Poser 8 I wish they would make the Interface easier to use in regards to the libraries, it would be nice to have something like we have in the DAZ Studio, so much easier to swap between several runtimes and see everything at once.

Never was the slightest bit interested in the original The Girl, not interested in this new one either - same goes for Aiko 3/4 for that matter.

To SeanMartin: Firstly, I sympathise with your feelings, so don't take this as a personal attack on you, I don't mean it that way... it's just an alternative viewpoint.

I think your rant is really mixing up two completely separate issues:

1. The Poser application itself, what 3D modelling features it provides, how well it supports them, and where it is going in terms of development.

2. What the majority of hobby artists want to do with it (and perhaps also with D|S), which, I believe, mainly drives the market for what content is available at DAZ, Rendo, etc etc.

Your rant is really about number 2 above, not number 1. Well, if that's what many (most? I don't know) people want to do with Poser and D|S, and if they like the look of The Girl 4, or A4, or any other particular model in their renders.. what is there really for anyone to complain about? How does that insult our intelligence or taste? What does it really have to do with us at all?

So what is your real gripe? I don't believe you can (or should) give a quick easy answer to that question. Think about it.

Izi

>> "what is there really for anyone to complain about? How does that insult our intelligence or taste? What does it really have to do with us at all?"

When I started with this stuff, back in the days of Poser 4, you saw VARIETY. Poserworld was doing some seriously kick-ass historical stuff. RDNA was doing some pretty sharp scifi. Even DAZ had, more often than not, fantasy wear (for both men and women) that allowed a lot of customization, from skimpy to folly clothed and everything inbetween, all from the same outfit.

Now? Now it's all a joke.

We're limiting ourselves more and more and more and more and more. Everything's honing in on JUST one body type and JUST one approach to suport. Regardless of whether it's fantasy armour or sci fi or (laughingly) "normal" wear, it's all taken even more of a triple-x, hard core sexual edge to it, to the point where it's passed absurdity and dived head-first into complete and utter WTF-land.

Hell, at least Barbie got to be an astronaut and an airline stewardess. Our Barbies, if they're astornauts, wear a pasty here and a pasty there and maybe a helmet -- and as a result it's no different from anything else. All we've done is change a few minor details and called it something new, which is generally followed by "Wow! That's so pretty!" -- when it's not, guys. It's freaking silly and (more and more, it seems) freaking ugly, with makeup applied with a proverbial trowel. I mean, my god, look at that image Mariner put up. Those eyes alone on G4 are enough to scare the crap out of someone. That. Is. Not. Pretty. Not by a long shot.

We deserve better, and we're "making do" with crap. You wanna do pin ups? Be my guest. I have no issue with that. It;'s what you have to work with that disgusts me. If you wanna do that stuff, go for it... but for god's sake, cant they at least be pleasant to look at?

Quote -

Now? Now it's all a joke.

We're limiting ourselves more and more and more and more and more. Everything's honing in on JUST one body type and JUST one approach to suport. Regardless of whether it's fantasy armour or sci fi or (laughingly) "normal" wear, it's all taken even more of a triple-x, hard core sexual edge to it.............

You should consider learning to make your own content
Daz is not deciding what gets supported its the hapless masses who desire
everything to made for them who decides this.

Yes Girl4 is just a new morph of ubiquitous V-chick and most of the new content
is the predictable repetitive fetish wear.
 this is the Daz business model.
what were you expecting from them??

Example
if you dont like the way hollywood is producing certain formulaic crap
its not fair  for me to say "well go make your won $85  million dollar sci fi  movie."

But its fair to say that you have the option of creating your own poser content even figures for very very  little cost and the tools & Documentation to learn  how are easily obtained.

now if you dont have the time ,talent,will etc to learn how to produce for yourself what YOU want then you will be stuck with whatever DAZ& Co decide to feed to
the masses.

Cheers

looks at girl. looks at girl 4

so girl4 is a clumsy copy with the style and charm removed?
glad I don't use daz figures....

Attached Link: Art Charts

;)))

Yeah, and car buyers all wanted SUVs until Detroit made them into crap as well.

I've said my peace on this. Girl 4 is an ugly piece of junk, an insult to Gossens' original. You wanna go out and spend the big bucks on not only the mesh but everything else you have to have to make it work? Be my guest. Glad you have that kind of money to throw around on something so really, really bad.

to Sean...
smiles
You're right.
Pro wrestling these days does suck.

Aw, c'mon, Sean ;)  It feels like you're holding back.  Let it all out, will ya?

Truth is, DAZ, Rendo, RDNA...all those merchants make what they want to make, or they wouldn't make anything.  You might here a lot of "oh, but this is what the public wants!"  I don't trust the public.  The public likes Spam (the meat).  The Public has Miley Cyrus at number 8 on the Billboard Hot 100.  The Public shops at Wal-Mart.  I could go on, but won't.  Merchants wouldn't make what they make if there wasn't a little bit of "ooh, I could do THIS with that figure...sweet!!"  So, honestly...if you want to see the content you want to see, you may have to make it or commission it.  shrug  Because, in the end, that's the only way you have control over it.

I got both figures for free because I am a PC-member. I never liked the girl and IMHO there was no need for an update.
But I do think it´s a good thing that the "new" DAZ figures are just morphs of a base figure, it gives you more variety. You are no longer stuck with the look of one figure but with a combination of looks, and now it´s up to you what you make of it.

Hi Sean

I think the problem may be that only a few content providers have mastered Daz's JCM,  Magno rig,  thus limiting our options.  We're going to change all of that with our Mark 4 figures.

Nonsense, the magnet JSM rig is trivial to work with compared to JCM.  It's literally a hundred times easier.

*Nonsense, the magnet JSM rig is trivial to work with compared to JCM.  It's literally a hundred times easier.

AH...HAH HAH HAH!...

Brilliant riposte!

Sorry SM, but this is a rehash of the same old rant, albeit delivered with a righteous indignation seldom outside 18th Century New England pulpits. New depths of depravity, cultural devolution, den of debauchery, yada yada. Forget de gustibus non est disputandum, Vicky and her sisters workin' hard for the money enable you to have luxury of putting them down while using Poser for more refined endeavours. How long would this business survive on Marie Antoinette frocks and pompadours? Youl'd be left without a pot to pose in. It ain't ray traced reflections that sells most copies of Poser any more than Bavarian hops sell beer. You want go back to some golden age but you I doubt that you want to give up the advances in the software that the content you despise and the users you scorn paid for. Just when I think that the anti-intellectual, anti-elite strain in America is misguided, I see something that makes me understand it all too well - you betcha!

*Sorry SM, but this is a rehash of the same old rant

Nah...Seans right,  the sun is setting on the daz empire.

Quote - albeit delivered with a righteous indignation seldom outside 18th Century New England pulpits.

laughing out loud at the irony
Know thy preacher, before thou judge him!

"Sorry SM, but this is a rehash of the same old rant, albeit delivered with a righteous indignation seldom outside 18th Century New England pulpits"

You just dont get it, do you.

Girl 4 is BUTT UGLY.

And, for whatever reason, we're all just so scared to really look at that mesh and admit thr really ugly truth.. because its from DAZ and we dont want to upset DAZ or its PAs without whom we would not be here enjoying the blessing of their bountious generosity.

I dont care what you do with her. Attack her with tendrils, tie her up in a stock, do your best -- but PLEASE PUT A BAG OVER THAT HEAD, okay?

And yes, Jen, the trotted out solution is "well, learn to make it yourself". Y'know, after a while, that wears thin too. Yeah, I can pretty much build a car from the ground up -- those classes in auto shop werent completely lost on me, and I've learned a lot since. I could grow my own food and make my own clothes and maybe even build my own computer and cel phone and furniture and perhaps even weave my own cotton to make my own sheets and pillowcases and all the rsst of that "American pioneer" spirit nonsense we love to espouse when the spirit moves us. Yes, I can do this. That doersnt change the fact that the store that's positioned itself to be the self-avowed leader of all things Poser has palmed off a piece of UGLY CRAP.

So tell you what, folks:a ll of you who think this mesh is all that? Prove it. Make me see that inner beauty that I'm somehow missing is this joke, Here's your thread and your opportunity to prove me wrong. Hell, I admitted I was wrong when M4 came out -- even though it turned out to be a lot of gloss covering some rather serious issues. But I admitted it. So let's see you try and make me do it here. A $10 gift card to the Rosity store says you cant do it. No popular vote on this; it's my call. If I say she looks like cow's dung, that's my decision, not yours. It ends when I say so: if it looks iike things are just paddling water, I'll pull it.

So let's see it. The first official LET'S PROVE SEAN'S A POMPOUS, WINDBAGGED, WRONG-HEADED DOOFUS-HEAD WITH A REALLY PRETTY RENDER OF GIRL 4 starts right now.

Pretty much all poser people are butt ugly by default, although the mutated head that A3/A4 and Girl 3/Girl 4 are sporting is particularly repellent (at least to me).

The G4 comes with some really, really fantastic expression morphs that can be used on plain ole V4 with stunning results.  I've never seen expressions like these on a daz figure before!  That said, I'd probably never use G4 the way she's supposed to be. 

But what I find more insulting about poser content is that everyone is SO concerned about getting their slice of market pie that I now have 67 "Panties" in my Bikini Bottom folder that are all identical or could've achieved their differences with morphs or transmaps.  I have to wade through 134 MAT folders to find the texture for the panties I like while making sure they are actually for the panties that I've loaded.  Oh wait, the texture I was looking for goes on those other panties, but those panties don't have the right morph targets...

Furthermore, as I pointed out a couple months ago, people are now making stuff that is the same as the other stuff they already made, slapping a new name on it, and selling it as a different, new item. 

Same can be said for the endless "character packs" merchants come out with.  I am proud to say that no matter how much in love I am with one of my character creations, I've never sold a character pack. 

I can't make you like Girl 4 any more than anyone else can.  I was never a fan of Ichiro.  You obviously are.  I don't rag on him saying that you need to PROVE to me that he's a worthwhile character, Sean. 

Seriously, everyone's opinions differ.  The original Girl was, at one point, my go-to character for a lot of work, both personal and professional, and I, for one, am GLAD for the new one.  I can make her less stylized if I want.  I used to hate the idea of Aiko and Girl being a morph of Vicky...but, honestly, that makes them more useful.  You might not like her.  But, seriously, claiming that we're all sycophants lapping at the teat of DAZ (paraphrased, my words, not yours) is a bit much. 

And, sorry if the "make it yourself" mantra gets repeated a lot...but, um, well, that's what you're going to get.  You want to see something?  Make it.  Or commission it.  Content creators are going to make what they want to, and it's up to you whether you want it or not...for free or not.

>> LET'S PROVE SEAN'S A POMPOUS, WINDBAGGED, WRONG-HEADED DOOFUS-HEAD**

By the way, guys? For all those who are about to post "We dont need a contest to prove that!", I beat ya to it... :)
**

Quote - I don't rag on him saying that you need to PROVE to me that he's a worthwhile character, Sean. 

Well, it should be noted that Sean's willing to pay $10 for the privilege here...

I think it's hard for some people to accept that daz is awash in a sea of mediocrity.

Quote - > Quote - I don't rag on him saying that you need to PROVE to me that he's a worthwhile character, Sean. 

Well, it should be noted that Sean's willing to pay $10 for the privilege here...

Very true ;)  Noted.

 The Girl is extremely stylized for my tastes and slightly useless since there's no "The Guy" to pose her along side. So I agree that the market which drives content creation is limited to base instincts.

I got into 3d because I needed an inexpensive way to create scenes of a hero running away from an exploding helicopter o_O 

I'm currently learning to model my own humanoid. Third time's a charm.

Attached Link: http://www.daz3d.com/i/3d-models/-/guy-4-michael?item=8899&spmeta=rq&_m=d

Ah, but there is, thanks to pdxjims.

TheGuy is actually a pretty nice package that I can see getting some use of (actually have used him in a recent gallery pic).  Not fond of the face but that's all right, it's separate from the excellent body morphs.

 I stand corrected.

@ SM,  that the G4 is * Butt Ugly * as you said is your opinion but by the way she is used and how often you see her in renders shows that many have not your opinion.

People do not have the same taste, they will NEVER do and I am glad it is this way, life and Poser would soon become very very boring.
Not only Barbie could be what she wanted to be, I doubt you had a real look at the contents at DAZ and other Stores.

But hey, that is your opinion and that is fine by me.
I just do not like how you try to put your opinion on us until we agree, which is not likely to happen.

I started with Poser 4 and I am so so so very glad we moved on and have those Models now that do not break their arms or legs when you pose them.

I rest my case.

Quote - >>
And yes, Jen, the trotted out solution is "well, learn to make it yourself". Y'know, after a while, that wears thin too. Yeah, I can pretty much build a car from the ground up -- those classes in auto shop werent completely lost on me, and I've learned a lot since. I could grow my own food and make my own clothes and maybe even build my own computer and cel phone and furniture and perhaps even weave my own cotton to make my own sheets and pillowcases and all the rsst of that "American pioneer" spirit nonsense we love to espouse when the spirit moves us. Yes, I can do this. That doersnt change the fact that the store that's positioned itself to be the self-avowed leader of all things Poser has palmed off a piece of UGLY CRAP.....huff puff..huff.. puff!!!!

The problem is NOT  DAZ figures & Content is boring and repetitive (thats a given)
the problem is that  YOU actually think DAZ & Co are obligated to change their
content please YOU.

You hate this 3DModel Figure from DAZ from Called "The Girl"
you have stated that opinion...
 We have read and understood your opinion..

However it is MY opinion that you are now a bit frustrated at having failed
to incite an angry mob of villagers here to rally to your cause and storm Castle DAZ
with torches & pitchforks in hand.

Calm Down.

Its just a "3D Computer Model"

Cheers

I think he was actually trying to drum up some attractive renders of the Girl, might have misread that though.

On a lighter note, and with a smile....

Quote -
The Girl 4 is .... slightly useless since there is no "The Guy" to pose her alongside.
Every Girl needs her Guy (from the The Guy product page)

To put it mildly - codswallop!

my guess is that girl4 will accrue about $250,000 in gross receipts before the next thing comes out.  its head and extremities are not as deformed as the previous girl model.  AFAIK they never explicitly stated whether the original cartoonist (dany) has received any royalties or any credit of any kind.  he couldn't trademark the word "girl", but he has rights of trade dress, hence I hope they're sending him a cheque monthly.  I ain't a lawyer.

Personally, I don't give a rats arse about the V4, A4. G4 and other humas-ish characters (either from DAZor anywhere else). I work with toon characters most of the time and have only used A3/H3 in a few renders and in my Sad Lisa video.

I don't let the hype steer my buying habits and try to encourage those that make what I want when I can. Gimme more 3DU, tate, Netherworks, Nursoda, Sixus, Jon Lynn etc, to name a few.

I'm not a slave of DAZ.
Warning: Nudity & Profanity
Revised Erotic Comic: 1st six pages.
My Erotic Comic: Pages 6-7-8
Pages 9-10 (For Larry_F)
Pages 11-12-13 (For Larry_F)
Pages 14-15 (For Indoda & Larry_F)
Pages 16-17-18 (For Indoda & Larry_F)
Pages 19-20-21-22 (For Indoda & Larry_F)

Besides butt ugly what do you see as being so horrid about G4? I, honestly, don't see a huge lack of charm between the versions. There are some small changes but nothing too drastic and the face is pretty spot on. DAZ does some pretty weird things but really don't see the huge uproar about the shapes.

it gets a bit wearing seeing this type of thread all the time.

IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE CONTENT THAT IS OFFERED AT THE VARIOUS STORES>

EITHER MAKE YOUR OWN OR SPEND YOUR TIME ON SOMETHING ELSE!

apologies for shouting.

artists make what they like or what will sell.
you are not forced to buy anything.

all these various stores would soon go under if they if they only catered to the minority!

" I just do not like how you try to put your opinion on us until we agree, which is not likely to happen"

LOL -- then dont read the posts, m'dear.

And as for everyone else taking such offence... c;mon, guys, let's see the renders. PROVE ME WRONG.

I repeat: ten bucks says you cant do it. I'm doing what you folks keep saying one should do: putting my money where my mouth is. What the heck: maybe ten bucks isnt enough for your very sensitive souls. So here's the deal: really blow me away with how gorgeous this mess is, and I'll up it to twenty. But to earn that, it's really gotta blow me away. Feeling lucky?

Or is it just easier to complain that I'm complaining? :)

C'mon, put up or shut up. Best one wins a prize. The rest of you can go bitch that ol poopy-head ruined all your fun..... That simple.

I'm kind of surprised nobody has posted even one pic to try for your money.

Quote -

And as for everyone else taking such offence... c;mon, guys, let's see the renders. PROVE ME WRONG.

I repeat: ten bucks says you cant do it. I'm doing what you folks keep saying one should do: putting my money where my mouth is. What the heck: maybe ten bucks isnt enough for your very sensitive souls. So here's the deal: really blow me away with how gorgeous this mess is, and I'll up it to twenty. But to earn that, it's really gotta blow me away. Feeling lucky?

Sir why would anyone with  two live brain cells participate in such an obvious straw dog challenge where the "Judge" is your own subjective opinion??
you may as well offer $1,000,000 Dollars ...... so what??
every "contestant" will be subjectively told "no that render sucks"by you
and you can make the claim that the Girls Fans "Failed" to impress you.

LOL -- oh ye of so very, very little faith.....

Afraid someone might actually make the cut and prove me wrong? And if no one does, everyone gets to put something up that maybe someone else will enjoy. You got a problem with that? Or is it just easier to whine? Frankly, that's about all youve done thus far.

C'mon, big boy, let's see whatcha got.

This a little better for you Sean? Im not much into Slut wear myself so I do have something that covers a bit more fantasy type set that I am finsihing up...

I actually didnt like the idea of her Being a V4 morph at first, but once I got playing with her I really started to like her being able to mix and match with say Aiko and such :), and you know me... I loved the first girl :)

Here are a few promos of the Cold Warrior Fantasy Gear and the Living Life which were what I worked on for Her so far.

Does it have to be a Girl 4 render to earn the $20.00, or could I substitute a remapped Judy and Posette render instead?
DPH
PS: I made a hybrid awhile back using The Girl's head grafted onto Posette's body.  Could I use her possibly?
Warning NUDITY:
SNGIATWAS
SNGIATWAS.02
NGIAPTAB.01
GirletteV3
In Defense of Home & Family!

What is there to "prove"?

You think the Girl 4 is "butt-ugly."  Well, that's your opinion and you're perfectly entitled to it--

But that doesn't mean you're "right."  Or "wrong."  It's just your opinion. 

If you don't like Girl 4, you don't have to buy her or use her or have anything at all to do with her.  So what is your problem?  It's not as though anyone is pointing a gun at your head and forcing you to use the model.

@SilverElf, those are excellent renders (and outfits) - I cast my vote for you for SeanMartins challenge!  (Pay up dude!)

**
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