I've taught myself how to model 3d clothing. I'm at the point where I'd like to try selling some of it.

The DAZ figures have tons of morphs in them. How do you duplicate the DAZ morphs into a piece of clothing you design - and be legally allowed to sell it?

All I have now is an .obj mesh of the clothing.

I'd like the clothing to be usable in any program that DAZ figures are usable in - that is, not tied to any one program only.

Thanks!

Use a donor cr2 [generally xxx_ BLANK.cr2] to make the clothing conforming.

Crossdresser can add morphs to some figures, Lyrra has a magnet set to create morphs in clothing, theres a couple other programws too. OR model the morphs manually.

Just out of curiosity, are there any copyright restrictions involved with redistributing morphs created with the 3rd party products that approximate Daz morphs and inject them into original clothing figures?

No
they are close copies of the original morphs , but not made using any of the original morph data.

• not a lawyer , just my opinion *

You can use some of the translation programs, like Cross Dresser or Wardrobe Wizard or Morphing Clothes. What you get out of them is still going to need a fair amount of hand touchup in order to be good enough for commercial stuff.

In my case, I sculpt them by hand . Byu the time you usually end touching up morphs to look good enough for sale, you spend about the same time as if you made them from scratch. In many cases it takes longer to touch them up then it does to make them right from the start. Lot depends on the shape of the clothes, and shape of the morph.

*Paloth said:
Just out of curiosity, are there any copyright restrictions involved with redistributing morphs created with the 3rd party products that approximate Daz morphs and inject them into original clothing figures?

*It's impossible to do this, because the geometry is different from a figure to the clothing item. Also deltas from a figure will be pretty meaningless if someone attempts to inject them into clothing.

If someone uses DAZ's morphed figure as a "sewing dummy" to make conforming clothing morphs to fit this figure, there are no copyright issues.

For making an item for sale I would defiantly use magnets for making the matching morphs for the clothes instead of a utility such as CrossDresser or Morphing Clothes.  While a lot more time consuming, my experience is that magnets will usually give smoother looking morphs and because they are magnets they are fairly easy to tweak to get the best looking morphs, provided you know how to use magnets.  I’ve had good results with magnet sets from both Lyrra Madril and Netherworks.

As for distributing items that include morphs made from Lyrra’s  magnets, the readme file for the V4 Morph Magnets Fits states:

“Morphs made using these magnets are your property and you can do whatever you like with them.”

Good point. Magnets in Poser, or Deformers in DS are another pretty good way to make body fitting morphs!

I was pretty sure that approximating Daz morphs for clothing was allowed since you have to do this regardless of whether you do it by hand or through 3rd party software. I just wondered if you could redistribute morphs created by the 3rd party software since, techincally, the programmer has created those morphs.

As far as I know, Dimension 3D's Morphing Clothes doesn't have this restriction. If anything, the program creator, Ralph, is always willng to help you with how to use it.

I never tried to figure out whom texhnically created the morpps. Now that you're making me think about it, it's a combination of the morph making utility, underlying figure mesh and a clothing mesh, and settings used in the program. Then it depends on whether you save an OBJ, or try to extract deltas from a morphed OBJ.

Pretty much a serious derivative work, where most work was done by the person converting the clothes (especially if they modelled them too).

However, I never got far enough with thiose programs to get morphs I'd want to put in a commercial product, so I never really tried to get to the bottom of it all. (And never really cared to try for entertainment sake)

IMO the starter of this thread should start learning how to rigg, how to create cr2's, how to create and implement morphs and then he should offer some of his creations to the community as freebies to get a little bit of feedback about his stuff.

Quote - IMO the starter of this thread should start learning how to rigg, how to create cr2's, how to create and implement morphs and then he should offer some of his creations to the community as freebies to get a little bit of feedback about his stuff.

That's a very good idea.  I already had an idea about creating the cr2's, but the morph thing I had no idea about.

I will make free stuff first.  If you make free stuff, how do you get feedback about it?

Michael 4 has dozens of DAZ morphs.  I'm assuming that when someone morphs Michael they will expect the clothing to morph along with him.  What I don't understand is how to duplicate DAZ's morphs exactly - so that the clothes fit exactly.  I understand how to make a morph, but I don't understand how to make a morph that will match Daz's morphs.

Quote - I will make free stuff first.  If you make free stuff, how do you get feedback about it?

If you submit an item to freestuff here you should then come to the Poser forum and ask for feedback.
Also you could post the item to the General Freepository forum in the DAZ forums.  Asking for feedback there will get replies from both Poser and DAZ Studio users

*What I don't understand is how to duplicate DAZ's morphs exactly - so that the clothes fit exactly.  I understand how to make a morph, but I don't understand how to make a morph that will match Daz's morphs.

*The morph does not need to be exact, as long as the figure doesnt poke through thats close enough. Of course you want to try to get it as close as you can . The way to do that is to apply the morph to the figure , and export that as an obj file. You can then use that obj file as the template for your morph. Thats a bunch of figures to export but you only need to do it once. Some modellers would let you create a template figure with morphs but thats going to depend on what program you are using.

If you look at some clothing items its some of the Full Body Morphs that the cloths get, not every morph for every body part. *

Quote - > Quote - IMO the starter of this thread should start learning how to rigg, how to create cr2's, how to create and implement morphs and then he should offer some of his creations to the community as freebies to get a little bit of feedback about his stuff.

That's a very good idea.  I already had an idea about creating the cr2's, but the morph thing I had no idea about.

I will make free stuff first.  If you make free stuff, how do you get feedback about it?

Michael 4 has dozens of DAZ morphs.  I'm assuming that when someone morphs Michael they will expect the clothing to morph along with him.  What I don't understand is how to duplicate DAZ's morphs exactly - so that the clothes fit exactly.  I understand how to make a morph, but I don't understand how to make a morph that will match Daz's morphs.

You export a morphed M4 as an OBJ, import him into your modeling application, insert the piece of clothing over him. Tweak and massage the clothing mesh with the modeling tools in the application of your choice. When you're happy with how the morphed piece of clothing covers the underlying M4 mesh, export it as an OBJ (so you can load it as a morph later).

How to actually tweak the mesh to make a morph depends on what modeling application you're using. There are usually soft selections, tweaks, pulls nudges and morphing and deforming brushes available in various applications. You sort of sculpt each morph around the underlying figure.

Repeat for each M4 morph. Yes, there's a LOT of them, and making clothing morphs for various figure fits can take quite some time. If you're picky about how they look, making morphs can take longer then modeling the original clothing mesh.

I second the advice about learning to rig and make things poser-ready on general. Morphing is one of the components of the process. Making the clothing model is usually about 1/5th of the whole process.

So, if M4 has, hypothetically, 100 morphs, you export M4 100 times, each time with a different morph dialed to 1. Then you sculpt your clothing, a new fresh piece for each morph.

1. Import M4, Import clothing Mesh, sculpt the morph, export the sculpted OBJ.
2. Import M4, Import clothing Mesh, sculpt the morph, export the sculpted OBJ.
3. Import M4, Import clothing Mesh, sculpt the morph, export the sculpted OBJ.
   ....
   99.  Import M4, Import clothing Mesh, sculpt the morph, export the sculpted OBJ.
4. Import M4, Import clothing Mesh, sculpt the morph, export the sculpted OBJ.

As we mentioned earlier, there are programs that help you with making the morphs, but the results often end up lumpy and noisy, and end up needing a hand touchup. The way you would go about Hand touch-up:

1. Import M4, Import clothing Mesh, touch up the morph, export the sculpted OBJ.
2. Import M4, Import clothing Mesh, touch up the morph, export the sculpted OBJ.
3. Import M4, Import clothing Mesh, touch up the morph, export the sculpted OBJ.
   ....
   99.  Import M4, Import clothing Mesh, touch up the morph, export the sculpted OBJ.
4. Import M4, Import clothing Mesh, touch up the morph, export the sculpted OBJ.

Once you get to know your modeling program and various utilities, you can streamline this process a bit and make it more efficient. How to do that is highly going to depend on what combination of tools and programs you end up choosing for the content making process.

Quote - You export a morphed M4 as an OBJ, import him into your modeling application, insert the piece of clothing over him. Tweak and massage the clothing mesh with the modeling tools in the application of your choice. When you're happy with how the morphed piece of clothing covers the underlying M4 mesh, export it as an OBJ (so you can load it as a morph later).

Thank you Conniekat8! :biggrin:  Your explaination is wonderfully clear!

Quote - The morph does not need to be exact, as long as the figure doesnt poke through thats close enough. Of course you want to try to get it as close as you can . The way to do that is to apply the morph to the figure , and export that as an obj file. You can then use that obj file as the template for your morph. Thats a bunch of figures to export but you only need to do it once. Some modellers would let you create a template figure with morphs but thats going to depend on what program you are using.

If you look at some clothing items its some of the Full Body Morphs that the cloths get, not every morph for every body part.

Thank you markschum, you and Conniekat8 have made everything clear!

Quote - If you submit an item to freestuff here you should then come to the Poser forum and ask for feedback.
Also you could post the item to the General Freepository forum in the DAZ forums.  Asking for feedback there will get replies from both Poser and DAZ Studio users

At Renderosity and DAZ, when you want to make something available to folks for free, where is the free file hosted for people to upload?  Do Renderosity and DAZ host the file, or do I need to find a host myself, upload the free file, and make it available for others to download?

Thanks!

*** Some of the stuff can be automated. For example I have a python script that I wrote to export out all the morphs when I helped someone create a conforming figure.

I dont know if anyone mentioned that morphs for each body part must be made seperately , and then combined if needed into a full body morph. Its a very tedious process.  I think thats still required.

Quote - ***

I dont know if anyone mentioned that morphs for each body part must be made seperately , and then combined if needed into a full body morph. Its a very tedious process.  I think thats still required.***

Now I'm really confused again.
 
If I make a suit (jacket and skirt) for Victoria 4.2, and I want it to fit the V4.2 full body morph "BodyBuilder" - I morph the figure into Bodybuilder, then import the morphed figure into the 3d modelling program, and adjust the clothing's vertexes/polys to make it fit the morphed BodyBuilder figure - but I have to make a seperate morph for the clothes for each of the individual body morphs - whcih would be:

• UpperTorso - NeckThickness
• TrapsSize
• LatsSize
• Inhale
• SternumWidth
• SternumHeight
• Arm-Hand - ArmSize
• ShouldersThickness
• BicepsFlex
• ForearmsThickness
• Breast - BreastUpR
• BreastUpL
• BreastDownR
• BreastDownL
• BreastInR
• BreastInL
• BreastOutR
• BreastOutL
• BreastsSize
• BreastsLarge
• BreastsImplant
• BreastsNatural
• BreastsDroop
• BreastsDiameter
• Breasteavage
• BreasteavageWidth
• BreastsPerk
• BreastsHangForward
• BreastsFlatten
• LowerTorso - TorsoThickness
• Pregnant
• StomachDepth
• BellyThickness
• TummyOut
• BellySmooth
• BellyThin
• WaistWidth
• LineaAlba
• AbsHeightR
• AbsHeightL
• LoveHandleR
• LoveHandleL
• HipsSize
• HipsCrest
• GenitalCrease
• Glute -  
• GlutesSize
• GluteRaiseR
• GluteRaiseL
• GluteFlexR
• GluteFlexL
• GluteCreaseR
• GluteCreaseL
• GlutesDimpleDepth
• Leg-Foot - ThighsThickness
• ThighsTone
• ShinsThickness
• CalvesFlex

And then combined all the suits individual morphs into a full body clothing morph for the suit?

I can't just make one full body morph for the suit to fit the BodyBuilder morphed figure without makeing 50 individual morphs first?

If I need to make 50 individual morphs, how do I know which of the possible morphs DAZ used to make their full body BodyBuilder morph?  How would I know if they adjusted the - SternumWidth morph or the BreasteavageWidth morph?

And then I have to make 50 individual morphs for each of V4.2's full body morphs:

• Definition
• Fitness
• Amazon
• Emaciated
• Thin
• Young
• Voluptuous
• Bulk
• PearFigure
• Heavy

That would mean I'd have to make 510 morphs? :b_unbelievable:

Sorry, but now you told us something about your experience with Poser and figures. If you load a figure into Poser you can see the parts of the body such as neck, head, chest and so on. A FBM is a summ of morphs (PBM) in the respective bodyparts slaved to the FBM in the body. IMO you should look for the tuts of Dr Geep to learn something about Poser and poser figures and how they work. After that you should read some tutorials on cloth creating, rigging, Morph creation, ERC and then come back with your questions.

Even with automated solutions like Obj2Cr2, or others you have to deal with joint parameters and Mat spheres to get the clothes work properly.

Quote - *** Some of the stuff can be automated. For example I have a python script that I wrote to export out all the morphs when I helped someone create a conforming figure.

I dont know if anyone mentioned that morphs for each body part must be made seperately , and then combined if needed into a full body morph. Its a very tedious process.  I think thats still required.

---

Doing it VERY long hand, which would be importing morphs via Poser, body part by body part, yes, each body part needs to be a separate OBJ.

If I had to do even 10 morphs this way, I'd just go shoot myself instead.

There's a workaround to that. Several actually, depending on what tools and scripts are used to aid in rigging and morph making.

Quote -   [That would mean I'd have to make 510 morphs? :b_unbelievable:

Technically, Yes.
However, as you learn the process, you'll find that there are quite a few utilities, scripts and routined available out there, for free or for purchase that help streamline the process.

In my case, since DAZ came out with it's Figure setup tools, I've almost completely switched my morph making and a lot of rigging to DAZ Studio and Hexagon combo.

DAZ studio has a nifty built in utility that lets you send a figure directly to Hexagon (opens the program for you, and loads the figure) and doesn't require you to work with each body part individually. Then when you're done making the morph, there's "Send to DS" button in Hexagon, and the morph automatically loads and groups and does a few other things that you would have to do long hand without it.

There's a great book out there, written by B.L.Render "secrets of figure creation for Poser"  It's great for learning all this kind of stuff.  There's also a few tutorials for this that can be found free, online.  (Sorry, I don't have any links handy)

Also, before you embark on making morphs, you need to have your piece of clothing grouped so that it works well with the underlying figure, and you need to go through all of the Joint parameters (Bend, swing twist) for each joint, and make sure that when it's conformed, it bends well, with no pokethroughs.

Then there's also making of JCM's (Joint Correction Morphs), but that's little more advanced stuff. You're going to have your hands full for a while getting the basic process down pat.

Quote - > Quote - If you submit an item to freestuff here you should then come to the Poser forum and ask for feedback.

Also you could post the item to the General Freepository forum in the DAZ forums.  Asking for feedback there will get replies from both Poser and DAZ Studio users

At Renderosity and DAZ, when you want to make something available to folks for free, where is the free file hosted for people to upload?  Do Renderosity and DAZ host the file, or do I need to find a host myself, upload the free file, and make it available for others to download?

Thanks!

For freebies, you host your own files.

Some people pay for and maintain their own websites (I do).
Others use shareCG and few other more reputable file sharing sites. They all have their pluses and minuses.

At renderosity, once you submit a freebie, it goes through a minor testing process to make sure it works.  At DAZ, I think you just post a link to download files in freepository forum.

Attached Link: http://www.netherworks-studios.com/

Not every figure morph is covered, but in my (limited) experience you don't need all of them in clothing. If you're prepared to adjust some of the other morphs you can get a good match.

I used the Netherworks V3 Morphkit in my recent Nancy Boots and Becky freebies. I admit I chickened out of making them super-conforming, though. (Boc, boc, boc, BAAAWK...)

Quote - IMO the starter of this thread should start learning how to rig, how to create cr2s, how to create and implement morphs and then he should offer some of his creations to the community as freebies to get a little bit of feedback about his stuff.

Um, don't count on feedback. I've created a number of items which have seen a fairly significant download success (over 7000 downloads for Charlotte and roughly the same for the Short Dress)... I've gotten some feedback about Charlotte, but virtually none from Short Dress users.

About the only way you're going to get feedback is for you to engage an official product tester who checks for visible texture seams and poke-through and other nasties and reports back.

As for the rest? I think my dress and Charlotte are sitting in zipped format in collections of freebies all over the world. I know because I have such a freebie collection that I will get to, one of these days.... promise!

Quote -
About the only way you're going to get feedback is for you to engage an official product tester who checks for visible texture seams and poke-through and other nasties and reports back.

Thanks for the tip. How do you engage an official product tester?

It's easy, explain your product and ask for testers. Professionals will not answer but may be some users that want to become testers. You have to have an idea about the methods of testing and define them for your testers.. Basic information about testing you can find on my HP 3d.ulliswelt.com under Tutorials and keep in mind, it's a tutorial for newbies. Professional testers will look into your product in depth. They will check for unnecessary body parts, relative pathes and so on. Sometimes, depending on the complexity of the product, it takes weeks until a product is ready for the market and, believe me, professional testers are not serving the artist, they are the lawyers of the customers, means, they feel responsible for the quality of a product they tested.

Quote - Professionals will not answer

Thanks for the information and the link to your tutorial!  If I wanted professional testers, how could I go about finding them?

You will find them if you are known for good products. There are not that much experienced testers around but if you ask you'll find some newbies who are interested in testing but, without experience, they will not become accepted by the know artists. So they have to start testing with e. g. your products.