I have uploaded 2 morphs to the Antonia Developers site. "Pupil Dilate-LB" to the Expression Morphs section, and "CatEye-LB" to the Head Shaping Morphs section. These morph the pupil and iris, but do not deform the cornea.

"Pupil Dilate-LB" adds a FBM dial in the Body where you can adjust both pupils at once, the dials in the eyes have also been left visible. With "CatEye-LB" I took a different tack. There is no FBM dial in the Body, just dials in the individual eye actors. "CatEye-LB" also utilizes 'linkParms' technology (supported in P3 and up), so that if you set the morph value (strength) in one eye the morph in the other eye is automatically updated to the same value.

Now for the questions of philosophy. If you have an expression morph, or a breast morph, or a face shape that is not part of an FBM, where do you want to set it? In the individual body part that is affected by the morph, or via a FBM dial in the Body? And if a FBM dial in the Body, should the dial in the individual body part be hidden?

Lastly, what do you think of the link 'linkParms' method as used in "CatEye-LB"? Should I convert the "Pupil Dilate-LB" to use that same method, or should I convert "CatEye-LB" to an FBM, or should I convert both morphs to use a combination of both 'linkParms' and a FBM (never tried that, don't know if it works).

Another question, should REM poses go in the same folder as the pose to apply the morph, or a separate sub-folder?

@odf

Quote - Any other ideas?

A script to add one channel to one actor. Preferably with the ability to specify internal and external name. The morph channel should be added above any transform or JP channels.

Same thing for a valueParm channel.

Quote - So maybe from the next preview on, I could just run a number of scripts like that on every new version of Antonia to make some custom CR2s for developers to use(*). Sound good?

Sounds great!

Those morphs  look really good, Les. That was on my list of things to do. Guess I don't have to now. ;-)

aella: I've uploaded your morphs to the developers site as PMDs. It's as I thought : once loaded into Antonia-96 and converted to deltas, they work fine with the latest Antonia.

Here's what I did in detail:

1. Opened Poser and loaded Antonia-96.
2. Loaded each of your obj files as a morph target.
3. Saved the character under a new name.
4. Opened BinaryMorphEditor and loaded the character file created in step 3.
5. In the selection window that popped up, checked all morphs loaded in step 2 (here it paid off that I gave them all names starting with "aella-") and pressed "OK".
   6) Saved a PMD file.
   7) Saved binary injection and removal poses.

lesbentley: I didn't know about "linkParms". Pretty cool stuff! I think for things like cat-eyes or pupil dilation it's perfect.

Now I wonder if it's possible to rig the eyes so that moving the left eye would also move the right eye and vice versa, but one could still achieve a cross-eyes look via a separate dial.

I like to put controls as close to the part they influence as possible, but I know some prefer to use the body or introduce dummy actors just for controls. If we can get a clear majority vote here for one or the other, I'll put it down in Antonia's little book of unbreakable rules. But I'm not really prepared to enforce those rules. :laugh:

Quote - aella: I've uploaded your morphs to the developers site as PMDs. It's as I thought : once loaded into Antonia-96 and converted to deltas, they work fine with the latest Antonia.

Here's what I did in detail:

1. Opened Poser and loaded Antonia-96.
2. Loaded each of your obj files as a morph target.
3. Saved the character under a new name.
4. Opened BinaryMorphEditor and loaded the character file created in step 3.
5. In the selection window that popped up, checked all morphs loaded in step 2 (here it paid off that I gave them all names starting with "aella-") and pressed "OK".
   6) Saved a PMD file.
   7) Saved binary injection and removal poses.

That's cool! Maybe if there are changes down the road I won't have to do mine over...lol. Unless it's by choice of course ;o).

Laurie

Quote - New Morphs and some Questions of Philosophy. Opinions sought.

I have uploaded 2 morphs to the Antonia Developers site. "Pupil Dilate-LB" to the Expression Morphs section, and "CatEye-LB" to the Head Shaping Morphs section. These morph the pupil and iris, but do not deform the cornea.

"Pupil Dilate-LB" adds a FBM dial in the Body where you can adjust both pupils at once, the dials in the eyes have also been left visible. With "CatEye-LB" I took a different tack. There is no FBM dial in the Body, just dials in the individual eye actors. "CatEye-LB" also utilizes 'linkParms' technology (supported in P3 and up), so that if you set the morph value (strength) in one eye the morph in the other eye is automatically updated to the same value.

Now for the questions of philosophy. If you have an expression morph, or a breast morph, or a face shape that is not part of an FBM, where do you want to set it? In the individual body part that is affected by the morph, or via a FBM dial in the Body? And if a FBM dial in the Body, should the dial in the individual body part be hidden?

Lastly, what do you think of the link 'linkParms' method as used in "CatEye-LB"? Should I convert the "Pupil Dilate-LB" to use that same method, or should I convert "CatEye-LB" to an FBM, or should I convert both morphs to use a combination of both 'linkParms' and a FBM (never tried that, don't know if it works).

Another question, should REM poses go in the same folder as the pose to apply the morph, or a separate sub-folder?

@odf

Quote - Any other ideas?

A script to add one channel to one actor. Preferably with the ability to specify internal and external name. The morph channel should be added above any transform or JP channels.

Same thing for a valueParm channel.

Quote - So maybe from the next preview on, I could just run a number of scripts like that on every new version of Antonia to make some custom CR2s for developers to use(*). Sound good?

Sounds great!

Awesome, awsome!! Now I can cross those off me list ;o).

They look great Les!

Laurie

 odf--it IS possible to ERC the eyes to move at the same time. Even some freebie figures come this way. You can download and take a look how's she's put together.

For example: MDP-F202 [mdp.s18.xrea.com/DL/DLpage.html

](http://mdp.s18.xrea.com/DL/DLpage.html)

As always, anyone interested can use them to include in anything. :-)

I'm going to start working on some lash morphs now - curve, shorten, bend and all that. Hopefully some of those can offset some of the problems with the eyelid morphs.

I've got a curved/bend eyelash morph already ;o).

Laurie

Sounds good, the more the merrier, as they say. ;-)

Right now I just have the maps plugged into BlueEcho's node setup (and just may keep it that way if it's alright with them). I suck with nodes. I forgot how much I need to "massage" the map so that everything's pointing the right direction and that the lips need work on the bump.

I think I'm gonna drive myself nuts...lol.

Laurie

That looks really good Laurie. Did you paint that, or photoshop a real picture over the UV map?

Quote - lesbentley: I didn't know about "linkParms". Pretty cool stuff! I think for things like cat-eyes or pupil dilation it's perfect.

Now I wonder if it's possible to rig the eyes so that moving the left eye would also move the right eye and vice versa, but one could still achieve a cross-eyes look via a separate dial.

I have written a rather long answer, and so as not to clog up this thread, have posted it in the "Antonia Technical" thread.

Quote - I like to put controls as close to the part they influence as possible, but I know some prefer to use the body or introduce dummy actors just for controls. If we can get a clear majority vote here for one or the other, I'll put it down in Antonia's little book of unbreakable rules. But I'm not really prepared to enforce those rules.

I too like to put controls in the part they influence, or the first common parent they share.

@LaurieA,

Love your texture map. Hope you are going to post it to the dev site. Would offer to help, but am no good at nodes.

@JOELGLAINE,

Quote - odf--it IS possible to ERC the eyes to move at the same time. Even some freebie figures come this way. You can download and take a look how's she's put together.

Antonia is already set up that way. Look for the "EyesLeftRight" and "EyesUpDown" dials in the head actor. For other figures you can use my "(almost) UNIVERSAL Move Both Eyes at Once".

Quote - aella: I've uploaded your morphs to the developers site as PMDs. It's as I thought : once loaded into Antonia-96 and converted to deltas, they work fine with the latest Antonia.

Here's what I did in detail:

1. Opened Poser and loaded Antonia-96.
2. Loaded each of your obj files as a morph target.
3. Saved the character under a new name.
4. Opened BinaryMorphEditor and loaded the character file created in step 3.
5. In the selection window that popped up, checked all morphs loaded in step 2 (here it paid off that I gave them all names starting with "aella-") and pressed "OK".
   6) Saved a PMD file.
   7) Saved binary injection and removal poses.

ok I think I am sold on getting binary morph editor. I made a ton of antonia morphs and this will make it a lot easier.

Quote - That looks really good Laurie. Did you paint that, or photoshop a real picture over the UV map?

Picture (I finally used my photo reference resources...lol). I think if I'd painted it you'd be able to tell. Not that I don't care for painted textures, because they have their place, but on the whole I don't like them nearly as much as a realistic skin texture.

Laurie

Quote - ok I think I am sold on getting binary morph editor. I made a ton of antonia morphs and this will make it a lot easier.

I think I'm with you. This would indeed make it a lot easier. I've been looking at all those Poser Power tools for awhile now.

Laurie

Laurie, that texture is looking good.

As for the node setup, it was done by odf, not me. :)

I have been seeking advice from bagginsbill on how to do that stuff being as I'm a newbie to it.
His advice has helped and now I know how to do my M4 texture in a darker shade too.

Quote - Laurie, that texture is looking good.

As for the node setup, it was done by odf, not me. :)

I have been seeking advice from bagginsbill on how to do that stuff being as I'm a newbie to it.
His advice has helped and now I know how to do my M4 texture in a darker shade too.

Oh, I thought you did them ;o). Well, then maybe odf will let me borrow his node setup...lol. That's some fancy setup! I could never come up with all that, not in a month of Sundays.

And thanks! :o)

Laurie

It's a shader from VSS.

To make darker skin, change the PMC:Tint color to a darker color. Try different colors, not just shades of gray. You can make the skin tone be very different without changing the color map at all.

it's easier if you actually use VSS, because then you only have to change it in one place. If you don't use VSS, you have to edit the node parameters in each skin zone to match.

Oh, just for those who may be in need...have a look in the Poser Python Scripting forum. Someone just made a script that loads an entire folder of obj morphs in one shot. Damned convenient ;o).

www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php

Laurie

Quote - It's a shader from VSS.

To make darker skin, change the PMC:Tint color to a darker color. Try different colors, not just shades of gray. You can make the skin tone be very different without changing the color map at all.

it's easier if you actually use VSS, because then you only have to change it in one place. If you don't use VSS, you have to edit the node parameters in each skin zone to match.

I don't doubt that it's easier to use VSS bb - once it's setup. But I just can't see my feeble little brain figuring all that out from the start ;o). It took nearly all I could manage just to get a decent rose petal...lol.

I ya don't mind, I'll borrow that setup then to set up this new texture?

Laurie

Quote - It's a shader from VSS.

And I should have really mentioned that in the credits. Sorry!

@ MikeJ

Quote - I just uploaded a small zip file to the dev site>expression morphs, with two eye open morphs, one for the left and one for the right. Still not perfect... Not exactly symmetric either, but can be adjusted a bit to get better symmetry.

Ockham has a script to mirror a morph, never used it myself, but I thought it may possibly help with your asymmetric eye open morphs. Quote from ockham's page:

"Morph Mirror. Creates a mirrored morph, either on opp. side of centerparts or on opp. limb."

Link to ockham's site.

Dang, if only I had more time. There's another bundle of scripts that should come with Antonia:

• Symmetrize obj
• Mirror obj
• Split morph in left and right
• Transfer low-res <=> high-res
• Fix vertex numbering

I can do most of these things from the command line, and the rest shouldn't be hard. But it's all written in Scala.

I need a patron or something. :laugh:

Quote - @ MikeJ

Quote - I just uploaded a small zip file to the dev site>expression morphs, with two eye open morphs, one for the left and one for the right. Still not perfect... Not exactly symmetric either, but can be adjusted a bit to get better symmetry.

Ockham has a script to mirror a morph, never used it myself, but I thought it may possibly help with your asymmetric eye open morphs. Quote from ockham's page:

"Morph Mirror. Creates a mirrored morph, either on opp. side of centerparts or on opp. limb."

Link to ockham's site.

I'll check it out but I don't know how well it would work. Modo and Lightwave both have excellent symmetry modes for creating morphs on opposite sides of a symmetric mesh. LW vcan only do symmetry on X, while Modo can do it on X, Y, or Z. But Antonia's head mesh isn't symmetric. It's close, but there's enough that's not to play hell with anything using symmetry.

Quote - ... I'll check it out but I don't know how well it would work. Modo and Lightwave both have excellent symmetry modes for creating morphs on opposite sides of a symmetric mesh. LW vcan only do symmetry on X, while Modo can do it on X, Y, or Z. But Antonia's head mesh isn't symmetric. It's close, but there's enough that's not to play hell with anything using symmetry.

I'm finding that out in Poser's mirror morph command. It's enough that it makes my mirrored morphs not be the exact same as the other side. I'm not doubting odf, but it might be how Poser translates the object. However, the first time I noticed this was when I was texturing Antonia...lol. You can see how one side is just a smidge different than the other. I'm not complaining, cause I think perfectly symmetrical is what makes 3D figures look a little "off" to me. I like when morphs aren't perfectly symmetrical, but that's just me. Some folks need it perfect.

Laurie

 @ odf--You can fix numbering of the vertex order?  If you write a python script for that, I'd like to try it out.

The UVs are not perfectly symmetrical. That's a glitch. I didn't have the tools at my disposal to create symmetric UVs. The mesh, however, should be. I'm using the mirror function in Wings to make it so. If anyone finds an asymmetry in the original mesh, please tell me. It's a bug, and needs to be fixed.

The asymmetries that Poser creates I can't help with. pjz99 has been complaining about these for a long time, and apparently the good folks at Smith Micro are trying to fix it now. At the moment, the best solution I can see would be to use the original mesh from the geometries folder. For head morphs, it might be possible to export via DAZ Studio and load the morphs into Poser, but I haven't tried that yet - or use MorphLoader or MorphLoaderPro in DAZ, which is what I do.

General advice: don't trust anything Poser spits out. If you need to use Poser exports, check them very, very carefully. I'm serious. There are so many chances to mess things up it's not even funny anymore.

MikeJ: By the way, your 'eyes wide open' morph looks awesome.

Not that I'm complaining of course, just one of those observations I've made.

BTW, that is the original mesh, from the geometries folder, with no alterations.

Olaf, if there are any tests you can think of, anything you'd like me to look for, let me know.

Quote - MikeJ: By the way, your 'eyes wide open' morph looks awesome.

Thank you Olaf. :-)
I wouldn't say awesome though. Adequate. Still need improvement...

MikeJ: What happens when you load the obj file from the geometries folder into Lightwave? Do you see the same thing?

Aaah, another question: did you scale the mesh up by at least a factor of 100 before loading it into Lighwave?

Quote - MikeJ: What happens when you load the obj file from the geometries folder into Lightwave? Do you see the same thing?

Yeah.. I should have mentioned that earlier and I just edited my post to say that. That is the original OBJ from the geometries. That's all I ever work with when creating morphs.

Modo shows the same result, BTW.

Quote - Aaah, another question: did you scale the mesh up by at least a factor of 100 before loading it into Lighwave?

No I didn't scale it. LW doesn't need any scaling. Its OBJ import/export is perfectly compatible with Poser and the OBJ doesn't move even a micron. Probably not even that much. Probably not at all.

Wait, are you saying that by scaling it up it will change the symmetry?

I might add that the V4 mesh shows perfect symmetry across X with no scaling, so I don't know that the scaling would change anything.

Quote - The UVs are not perfectly symmetrical. That's a glitch. I didn't have the tools at my disposal to create symmetric UVs. The mesh, however, should be. I'm using the mirror function in Wings to make it so. If anyone finds an asymmetry in the original mesh, please tell me. It's a bug, and needs to be fixed.

The asymmetries that Poser creates I can't help with. pjz99 has been complaining about these for a long time, and apparently the good folks at Smith Micro are trying to fix it now. At the moment, the best solution I can see would be to use the original mesh from the geometries folder. For head morphs, it might be possible to export via DAZ Studio and load the morphs into Poser, but I haven't tried that yet - or use MorphLoader or MorphLoaderPro in DAZ, which is what I do.

General advice: don't trust anything Poser spits out. If you need to use Poser exports, check them very, very carefully. I'm serious. There are so many chances to mess things up it's not even funny anymore.

I never doubted that she's symmetrical odf (and I love her even if she wasn't ...lol). But if we could create a morph on one side and then mirror them with a script and therefore bypass Poser's mirror morph, that might do the trick. One of us will have to try it and see. If that would work, I could theoretically split the morphs I've already done and mirror the one side with a script.

Laurie

MikeJ: I suspected scaling played a role because this looks very much like a roundoff error. Is there a way to set the accuracy for the symmetry feature in Lightwave? It could be that it wants more precision than what's provided in the obj file. If that's the case, I can easily fix it.

Yeah there's a symmetry tolerance setting. By default it's set to 0.0394 mil and I haven't changed it any.

It should be noted that I haven't found any vertices on the X axis in the center that aren't perfectly at zero.

Quote -
I never doubted that she's symmetrical odf (and I love her even if she wasn't ...lol). But if we could create a morph on one side and then mirror them with a script and therefore bypass Poser's mirror morph, that might do the trick. One of us will have to try it and see. If that would work, I could theoretically split the morphs I've already done and mirror the one side with a script.

Tell you what: I'll take a break from fixing the shoulder bends and get to work on some scripts to help developers.

Question: would you guys mind installing a standalone Python for this kind of thing? I'm asking because the Python versions shipped with Poser lack many of the newer language features that I got used to.

Sorry, that's 1 um in metric.

To put that into perspective, the upper eyelash is approximately ~3.8 mm wide in LW.

Quote - Yeah there's a symmetry tolerance setting. By default it's set to 0.0394 mil and I haven't changed it any.

It should be noted that I haven't found any vertices on the X axis in the center that aren't perfectly at zero.

Could you play with the tolerance and see if it changes anything?

I don't understand what '0.0394 mil' means. Can you tell me what the base unit is in Lightwave? In other words, if I have two lines like, say 'v 0 0 0' and 'v 1 0 0' in the obj file, what's the distance of those vertices expressed in mils?

Quote -
Question: would you guys mind installing a standalone Python for this kind of thing? I'm asking because the Python versions shipped with Poser lack many of the newer language features that I got used to.

I'm up for trying anything, really.
What version of Poser, or does it not matter? I'm using Poser Pro.

Quote - > Quote -

Question: would you guys mind installing a standalone Python for this kind of thing? I'm asking because the Python versions shipped with Poser lack many of the newer language features that I got used to.

I'm up for trying anything, really.
What version of Poser, or does it not matter? I'm using Poser Pro.

They are all a bit long in the tooth. Even Poser 8, I think, but I'd have to check. I use Python version 2.5. It's no big deal, really, just a matter of convenience. I wouldn't ask end users to do that, but I imagine developers won't mind installing a little extra bit of free software if it helps keeping me sane. :laugh:

Quote - > Quote -

I never doubted that she's symmetrical odf (and I love her even if she wasn't ...lol). But if we could create a morph on one side and then mirror them with a script and therefore bypass Poser's mirror morph, that might do the trick. One of us will have to try it and see. If that would work, I could theoretically split the morphs I've already done and mirror the one side with a script.

Tell you what: I'll take a break from fixing the shoulder bends and get to work on some scripts to help developers.

Question: would you guys mind installing a standalone Python for this kind of thing? I'm asking because the Python versions shipped with Poser lack many of the newer language features that I got used to.

Nope, I don't mind. Come to think, I believe I have actual Python installed already because another proggie needed it ;o).

Laurie

Well a mil is a thousandth of an inch. I mostly use LW for doing architectural modeling and have it set to English units - feet, inches.
It's 1 um in metric, which is one millionth of a meter. No wait, that can't be right. Hmmm.. a micron is a millionth of a meter.
Antonia is ~70cm tall in LW.

I can try some of those tests but it's going to have to wait until tomorrow. I have to go somewhere now though.
I'll see if I can figure out anything more tomorrow. Meanwhile if you have any suggestions, just type them up and post them. Or you could email if you want to. :-)

Meanwhile I'll find out what a um is. I know it's teeny. ;-)

Quote - Antonia is ~70cm tall in LW.

Okay, then one unit is probably a meter.

The symbol for 'micro' looks a bit like an 'h' turned upside down: µ. Sometimes people just use a 'u'. So micron, micrometer and 'um' all mean the same thing, I reckon.

No stress! I'll have a look at the obj files for Antonia and V4, and maybe that will give me a hint. Since I have neither Lightwave nor Modo, I'll have to wait for you to do the tests, but there's no big hurry.

Edit: Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the point coordinates in Antonia's obj were cut to 6 decimal places. That would explain things.