...or are most incarnations that I see of Mike 4, well, kinda feminine? I'm not knocking anyone specifically, but it seems to me that all I see are images of a rather "girly" Mike (for wont of a better word). Is it his mesh? Inquiring minds wanna know ;o).

I could be that I'm just getting old and "manly" men are just not in fashion anymore...lol.

Laurie

Its just you,  you sexisat person you!  you just want to keep us men locked in the John Wayne stereotype of manliness!  For shame!

The preceding statement should be taken in jest, and in no way reflects any actual opinion or thought of the writer.

Please send a SASE with a check written out to Cash for your complimentary copy of useless thoughts!

*We're men, MANLY men, we're men in tights.
[Gay voice] Yes!
We roam around the forest looking for fights.
We're men, we're men in tights.
We rob from the rich and give to the poor, that's right!
We may look like pansies, but don't get us wrong or else we'll put out your lights.
We're men, we're men in tights
[High Voice] TIGHT Tights
Always on guard defending the people's rights.
When you're in a fix just call for the men in tights!

WE'RE BUTCH!*

Quote - ...you just want to keep us men locked in the John Wayne stereotype of manliness!  For shame!...

Well,.....yeah! LOL

Laurie

The Paytah character is beefy.

There should be more manly M4s. Its an endangered species.

Quote - The Paytah character is beefy.

I wasn't necessarily meaning "beefy", just manly in the face. Some Mike's look a bit "pretty" which is a term I don't really equate with a fella...lol. For instance, Brad Pitt IMHO is "pretty" while Jason Statham is "manly"...hehe. It must just be me ;o).

Laurie

Tell Mr sincere from Reciecup that's he's girly, go on I dare you!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1926613

Or Paytah as Mistylaraprincess says!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1908201

Quote - Tell Mr sincere from Reciecup that's he's girly, go on I dare you!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1926613

Or Paytah as Mistylaraprincess says!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1908201

They're both seriously the only attractive and manly M4s I've seen...along with Byson by Mec4D.

Quote - Tell Mr sincere from Reciecup that's he's girly, go on I dare you!

Not on your life!...lol. I talk nicely to people holding weapons ;o).

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - The Paytah character is beefy.

I wasn't necessarily meaning "beefy", just manly in the face. Some Mike's look a bit "pretty" which is a term I don't really equate with a fella...lol. For instance, Brad Pitt IMHO is "pretty" while Jason Statham is "manly"...hehe. It must just be me ;o).

Laurie

Paul Walker is "Pretty" but oh boy is he HOTTIE!!!!

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - The Paytah character is beefy.

I wasn't necessarily meaning "beefy", just manly in the face. Some Mike's look a bit "pretty" which is a term I don't really equate with a fella...lol. For instance, Brad Pitt IMHO is "pretty" while Jason Statham is "manly"...hehe. It must just be me ;o).

Laurie

Paul Walker is "Pretty" but oh boy is he HOTTIE!!!!

He is pretty, but he's getting there ;o). He just needs to age a little bit...lol. Viggo Mortensen...now there's a guy with a guy face...lol.

Laurie

I agree he's a too girly (and so is H4) for my taste also.  I do think it's his mess, since the base version already looks very feminine and it probably takes a lot of effort to make him unfeminine again.

Quote - ...or are most incarnations that I see of Mike 4, well, kinda feminine? I'm not knocking anyone specifically, but it seems to me that all I see are images of a rather "girly" Mike (for wont of a better word). Is it his mesh? Inquiring minds wanna know ;o).

I could be that I'm just getting old and "manly" men are just not in fashion anymore...lol.

Laurie

I was thinking the same about some of the V4 incarnations that they are starting too look butch then I realized they weren't V4 but M4 :tt2:

Frankly I don't think it's the mesh so much as it's the smooth pretty looking texture sets being made for him. Sounds like what you're really asking for are some rugged man texture sets for him and I agree. There should be more.

I don't think rugged textures are the only issue here. A masculine face has a different shape than a feminine one and M4's at the very least is androgynous.

The brow is very soft or under-defined, the eyes are widewith long, thick eyelashes, the jaw  / mandible is soft, which makes the head look rounder than the "squareness" that one would normally associate with musculinity.

Both M4 and H4 have very femnine features, but when you consider how the Poserverse is running amok with Vickies, should this be a surprise? This place pretty well reeks of estrogen -- no wonder he wasnt released fully equipped.

I could be that I'm just getting old and "manly" men are just not in fashion anymore...lol.

Laurie
"

i couldn't agree with you more about that , i'd say 90% of them are feminine looking and look worse once the form fitting clothing goes on , Theres some really bad culprits over at daz  lol
for this reason i stopped buying any of the M4 characters and started to experiment in making my own ,
   

Kaibach, I remember Men in Tights... funny movie.

I'm kinda glad I didn't get M4.

Laurie, it could be that some of the makers of M4 either prefer effeminate males or think that women like that kind of thing; there are some females that are into bishonen and would probably buy less-manly characters.  I mean look at the V4 characters... a lot of them are done as eye candy for guys and intended for use in cheesecake images. 

Quote - Quote - "...or are most incarnations that I see of Mike 4, well, kinda feminine? I'm not knocking anyone specifically, but it seems to me that all I see are images of a rather "girly" Mike (for wont of a better word). Is it his mesh? Inquiring minds wanna know ;o).

I could be that I'm just getting old and "manly" men are just not in fashion anymore...lol.

Laurie
"

i couldn't agree with you more about that , i'd say 90% of them are feminine looking and look worse once the form fitting clothing goes on , Theres some really bad culprits over at daz  lol
for this reason i stopped buying any of the M4 characters and started to experiment in making my own ,
   

Nice image. Got a Dominic Purcell vibe going there.

Quote - Both M4 and H4 have very femnine features, but when you consider how the Poserverse is running amok with Vickies, should this be a surprise? This place pretty well reeks of estrogen -- no wonder he wasnt released fully equipped.

Funny thing is I've always had the feeling that the majority of Poser users were male. That could explain the abundance of big-breasted nekkid chicks as well as the fact that the Poser males are like pariahs.

Of course there are lots of female Poser users as well, but apparently a lot of them ALSO wants to render big breasted poser chicks. Perhaps from the idea of "sex sells" - and sex = nekkid chicks. 

Even some of the male users who prefers men are apparently into the more "stereotypical gay" look

Of course we are some who prefer the male characters and frankly I don't think my Sevvie is feminine. Pale and skinny, but not feminine. 

There are a few "manly men" out there, but there aren't all that many Mike characters at all - and often when they're "not feminine" they become almost carricatures of a brutish guy.

Too bad. I'd like a manly man. Thankfully, Simon looks quite nice out of the box so I won't have to use M4 (and again, he's not that hard to morph away from the androgynous look. All it takes is a little effort - not even much more than what it takes to dial Vickies breasts to a GG size.

Rendering as a hobby is all about the fantasy.

i like dressing up bishounen men.

i love Howl from Howl's Moving Castle.

Hugh Jackman cleans up nice.   oh hue, call me.

I love Brian Kinney.  its the boyish looks and long sinewy body.

 Interesting. I think M4 is not nearly as atractive as M3 until you start morphing the crap out of him! But then one of the on-going criticisms of M3 was that he looked like a male model (or a lumberjack, depending on if you were looking at the face or the bod)

I do agree, M4 does not lend himself the "Marlboro Man" characters, but that's why we have multiple models in our runtimes.

And yes... some more "rugged" textures for M4 would solve a LOT of the issues. Beck from Daz and Bobby by HeRaZa make almost any character face look more manly.

I rather like M4 and the faces I'm seeing for him... but then I'm using him the way the designers planned! :)

artdude41: hey, nice face!, even if he is a bit, well, "meaty"...lol.

I was thinking along the lines of a more normal fella: square jaw, chisled features (more or less) but with a normal slimmer build. There just aren't many. I'm still not sure if that's what's put me off Michael 4 or not. Of course, I could always make my own - I know how and there's not much stopping me but having the time to do it...lol.

Laurie

Hey that guy looks like the dude in Prison Break...nice tough looking guy...one of my favs is Sean Connery...can be gruf but manly....Sharen

Quote -

Even some of the male users who prefers men are apparently into the more "stereotypical gay" look

No, not really, it's rather a masculine, virile look as represented by athletes or fitness models. And in fashion the strange thing is the straight guys copy the gay guys: just visit a gay bar and you realize what is considered today "gay looking" is three to five years into the future "straight looking".

Example from the Nineties: Gay men wore camouflage pants and military looking boots in the mid and late Nineties. At the beginning of the 2000's straight men and women wore that too - while gay men already established another look, especially gym pants and jackets (as from Adidas) that were retro (from the Seventies). This was fast adapted by straight men.

Today gays favor masculine guys like Jason Statham (who was already mentioned in this thread for being "manly") not "gay looking" ones like Zac Efron, because he's just looking too soft.

But I wrote about gay adult men. Not teenagers or gay young men in their early 20s.

I've interviewed recently a group of gay teenagers: they looked like clones of the Tokyo Hotel boys, the pop group whose lead singer looks like a mix between German female 80's singer Nena and a Manga comic hero. They like Anime and this is obviously the common thing they have with young straight women - they like Anime with gay content and in them you'll find a lot of feminine looking young gay men. Which is not surprising since a young gay man is looking for someone who doesn't appear to be aggressive.

I also think that DAZ seems to target that market with such characters as Hiro 4 or Guy4. Add to that all the Elves stuff  (and on Renderosity the Vampires) - not my personal taste either. And I don't even know what market a Freak with that pink ballerina dress they look for. That's for the girls and young gays. The other men only need a naked Victoria with the basic clothes (bra and bikini) they get with DAZ Studio for free. And I don't need them either, because Poser's James and Simon are doing it for me, the clothes that came with Poser are more real looking and I give them my own texture designs.

I don't like the clothes that are usually sold for men either, the textures mostly look as if they're coming from decades ago. The "fetish" clothes I've seen for Michael 3 and now Michael 4 look similar to the fancy clothes stereotypical gays wore in leather bars or Studio 54 in the Seventies - absolute nothing I'm looking for to dress Michael 4 with. And the eyelashes for Michael 4 look as if they were designed for a woman.

Aside from that: find shoes that you can actually wear and not those boots, that are sold in thousand variations and regular looking hair, not those crazy longhaired wig parodies, that no man would wear (except in a transvestite show). But I guess a lot of people wish some more reality to the stuff Victoria 4 has too.

Or  are we who want to add reality with meshes, textures, clothes, hair etc in the minority? There must be a reason why they sell 'Puck' at DAZ.

I don't think we're in the minority ;o). I just want a guy who looks like a guy, not a mixture of the two...lol. By the same token, I've been wanting a figure that looks like a real human female too...still waiting ;o). Well, no, Antonia looks very, very promising in that department.

I was not at all saying that I've never seen a "decent" looking Michael 4 - there have been a couple, but most that look like actual men in the face seem to be coupled with a beefy or meaty body style which is far from my experience of men. More the slimmer body (and in my case, with the middle-aged spread thing going for them...lol).

Hey, it could just be that times have changed and women prefer more feminine looking men now. Up until a short time ago I didn't know the meaning of all the pacifiers I was seeing in the galleries. But with those, if I live to be a hundred, I'll never understand...lol. I've lived too long I guess.

Laurie

Quote - I don't think we're in the minority ;o). I just want a guy who looks like a guy, not a mixture of the two...lol.
Laurie

I'm glad I'm not alone with this. I plan on making some cool looking every day guys just as soon as I figure how how to do that.

Laurie, why not put a post in the wishing well forum?  Maybe if enough other people sign on to it character makers will start making more manly men.

I don't think it's the mesh. I think it's just the preference of most of the folks doing most of the rendering, viz some sort of attraction to "bish" guys. (Which I don't understand, but whatever.)

I haven't done many male renders, as about 90% of my images have been tests or whatever of my Believable MidLife Sharon character, but I did this one of M4 when he first came out... of course, he's a bit on the large side, I wanted to play with that and see how he'd fare. (Click for full size.)

I'll probably start on a Believable MidLife male once I've finished with Sharon; I just work slowly. :-P  There are some manly middle-aged type males out there, but most of them seem slightly caricatured for my tastes.

 Actually Laurie, I thought that one of the new characters look pretty real with the new Freak 4.  Sarsa did a great job with the textures and that character is wonderful.  I will get him soon.  I just love the Freak.  Sharen

I was reading an article that women who fancy more feminine men, usually went ot girl only scohols or didn't have enough positive males in their lives. Plsu also of course we have the truly SICK way our cultures having been pushing hyper perfect, ultra sexual sexualized celebrities at us.
I LIKe folk with bad teeth, scars, impercetions, you know, Humans!! ;) Sorry, big gripe with me hehe
Many old stars were incredibly charismatic wihtout being "perfect". Charisma is NOT mere "good" looks 

Character I'm working on, almost done, Freak 4 for head on M4, skin's too smooth though and needs some more work. a half-giant form Dark Sun (a fantasy setting)
:)

I just cruised through some of the new shows that are coming out and the guys do look more feminine, even down to looking like they wear eyeliner. Maybe it's just a vamp thing...lol
I agree that we need more regular guys, not pretty, but not beefy either. Laurie is so right about Viggo, looks like he's lived a bit. Most of the M4 characters out there lately look like they have never worked a day in their life.

Here in Germany we name this Metro sexual but I'm pretty sure even guys in the countryside remove their bodyhair and others like the M brothers ;)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1822012

That said, aren't men's eyelashes often longer than women's?  I'm crazy jealous of this guy from work. He looks like he's wearing mascara all the time.

I might try a tough white guy next. If I can find some time :)

Quote - Here in Germany we name this Metro sexual but I'm pretty sure even guys in the countryside remove their bodyhair and others like the M brothers ;)

Around here we call them Momma's Boys :m_hide:

No on a serious side of the matter at hand about whether M4 is too fem looking I think part of the problem is in the hands of Daz for making him that way. look at the last few Poser default males. They don't have smooth faces and they are not "handsome" out of the box. Heck they look like every day guys you see down at the bar (that would be me at the end)!

Quote - I agree and that's what I was going for with Carlton. I found it hard to unpretty M4's eye area. His jaw and chin are fairly easy to sculpt.

That said, aren't men's eyelashes often longer than women's?  I'm crazy jealous of this guy from work. He looks like he's wearing mascara all the time.

I might try a tough white guy next. If I can find some time :)

Yup, my hubby's lashes are longer and thicker than mine! I want 'em! lol. He still comes off looking like a guy tho ;o).

Laurie

sol.  One of the things one can do is forget the M4 face and probably use V4's face and with the head morphs change her to look down right "manly" (I don't have V4 but have V3 and one can sure change her to look down right ugly and brutish, goes for the figure too (with the body morphs).

You can also plop the V4 head on the M4 body (parent the V4 head to the M4 head, make the M4 head invisible and make the V4 body invisible or something like that. ---Jan

sol--smiling out loud preliminary to LOL

Yup, I'll just have to break out the morph tool and get to work one of these days when I manage to nail down that elusive thing called "time" ;o).

Laurie

You have to put a little effort in and he can look pretty darn stunning.

Here is one of mine: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1801343

NUDITY!!

He has potential to have some good rugged faces but I don't think most people push him that way. I try to have some good looks in my sets but I am only able to do so much with my time (full time job, wife and freelance don't leave that much free time).

Well, in my earlier post I alluded to the wide-ranging estrogen of the Poserverse, and thinking about it, now I'm almost positive.

After all, this is fantasy we're talking about here -- and fantasy, as a genre, has really always been about feminine men. Yes, there are exceptions, but in the main, look at today;s vampires on shows like TWILIGHT. The male lead is about three very short steps away from being a drag queen. Even the boys on TRUE BLOOD could stand a little butching up.

And then when you wander through the MP here and see what's available for Michael and Hiro and the Freak... well, most, if given just a tiny bit of redefinition, would fit just fine on the Showgirl. So I suppose the big question is: who are we buying this stuff for? :) Someone who will be compatable in the Showgirl's world, rather than defining himself as a character on his own? That's my bet.

www.youtube.com/watch

Now there's a manly man.

I tagged nudity because of an unusually placed male nipple in the video.  Male nipples are usually not considered nudity but I wanted to be safe. 

While I'm thinking about it, why isn't there a chuck norris-esque M4 morph?  That'd probably be popular.