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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Dec 11 2:52 am)



Subject: Procedural Geometry - Some WIPs


bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 5:20 PM

file_441896.jpg

> Quote - > Quote - > > 2) Corners are consistent - if a wall ends at something that isn't a multiple of a yard, the next wall continues where that wall left off. > > > > My goal is to avoid discontinuities in corners like this one (which I made on purpose.) (Notice also that the arch-filler isn't UV'd yet.) > > > > 2) is cool for wall papered rooms made easy. > Will the arch be treated similarly to (2 ?

Now it is.


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GeneralNutt ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 5:32 PM · edited Mon, 26 October 2009 at 5:32 PM

OK, I figured crown molding might have stumped you for a bit, I was wrong. It's PIA in real life.

Looking at the Arch I can't help but wonder about stone work and key stones, do you think that would be possible in the future too?



bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 5:34 PM

Quote - OK, I figured crown molding might have stumped you for a bit, I was wrong. It's PIA in real life.

Looking at the Arch I can't help but wonder about stone work and key stones, do you think that would be possible in the future too?

Yeah - stonework is down the road, but totally possible. Brickwork, too.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 5:41 PM

file_441897.jpg

> Quote - If I was going to do this in Blender I'd probably map each wall section separately.  That way you can adjust the texture when you create the map in photoshop or whatever to line the textures up. > Being as you are the procedural god I dunno if that would be such a huge problem though. > > I dunno if Blender would choke on a uv map like that but if you want me to have a go then feel free :) > > I suck royally at UV mapping though so bear that in mind :)

See that's what I'm curious about. Do people want draw the texture of an entire wall, or do they want to just use a repeating tile, ala wallpaper. For interiors, I imagined a wallpaper scenario would be best served by having the wall automatically repeat and line up the pieces. Like this.

This is not easy to do if the UV map of the wall is not consistent, i.e. the wall with the arch here does not begin at U=0, because that corner is not at U=0.

If you UV map each wall separately, then each has a totally different UV scale, and you cannot easily just slap on a wallpaper, like I did here.

On the other hand, if you really want to map a single wall from U=0 to 1, then it's not hard to change the script. I suppose I should make that an option for each wall.


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DarkEdge ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 6:12 PM

The mesh topology looks good. Being that it wasn't made by conventional means I was wondering if the poly count was getting out of hand. It's a little tough to tell from the attached pics but it seems that there is a good amount of polys present on the ogee moulding parts (doors, windows, etc) which there would be moldeing by any app, but that might be something to keep in mind. Not that a rooms poly count is going to make someones computer crawl but maybe being able to adjust how many lines equal "x" amount of curve...kind of like being able to select high or low poly (kind of like we modelers create either high or low poly meshes).
If it's 1 of 20 houses, would probably wany low poly. If it's the only house, probably would want high poly.
Just something to consider...or toss in the round file. 😉

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SamTherapy ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 6:16 PM

I* think* I get how this works.  Note, I said think.  :) 

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bopperthijs ( ) posted Mon, 26 October 2009 at 6:23 PM

I wish I had some of those functions in autocad, I would save me a lot of time :lol:

excellent work!

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R_Hatch ( ) posted Tue, 27 October 2009 at 3:08 AM

It might be a good idea to have both UV options as choices, since the tiling mode is good for wallpaper, and individual wall UVs would be good for people who want to be more creative or want to add dirt, tears, etc. Perhaps also allow a second surface slightly offset for transparency mapped effects (main wall is tiled - overlay is mapped per wall).


FrankT ( ) posted Tue, 27 October 2009 at 3:12 AM

One other question if you don't mind BB.  Do the windows have "glass" or are they just gaps ?

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GeneralNutt ( ) posted Tue, 27 October 2009 at 3:17 AM

I believe in the image above, they are mirrors.



RobynsVeil ( ) posted Tue, 27 October 2009 at 6:19 AM

Just reading ... trying not to imagine the code. And I thought your mix.mm1.txt script:

www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php

was daunting (still having problems getting my head around bits of it because I'm not up to speed on Python yet)... can't even begin to imagine what your functions are going to be like for generating geometry instead of nodes.
And this geometry will obviously be save-able... there must be some way to port this code (with some tweaking) to Blender... itching to get going on this!!

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Khai-J-Bach ( ) posted Tue, 27 October 2009 at 6:21 AM

hmm I can't see why a frontend couldn't be made, ala Moray for POVray, in time for this....



bagginsbill ( ) posted Tue, 27 October 2009 at 7:27 PM

file_441962.jpg

> Quote - One other question if you don't mind BB.  Do the windows have "glass" or are they just gaps ?

Yes there is "glass", but I had a bad glass shader loaded. I have corrected this. Also, I had nothing outside the room to see through the glass. Here's a better demonstration.


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FrankT ( ) posted Tue, 27 October 2009 at 8:02 PM

That's handy, could get some interesting caustic effects in that case

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bagginsbill ( ) posted Tue, 27 October 2009 at 9:18 PM

file_441971.jpg

Got my first door knob done.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Tue, 27 October 2009 at 9:19 PM

file_441972.jpg

Door knob rendered closeup.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Tue, 27 October 2009 at 9:19 PM

file_441973.jpg

Here's the whole door, with knob and hinges. Woot!


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Tue, 27 October 2009 at 9:35 PM · edited Tue, 27 October 2009 at 9:35 PM

file_441974.jpg

I took the suggestion to be able to adjust the polygon density.

I'll be making everything adjustable with simple LOD settings.

Here are wireframes for the door knob at LOD 2, 5, and 10.

LOD 2 is 220 polygons
LOD 10 is 3948 polygons


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Tue, 27 October 2009 at 9:39 PM

file_441976.jpg

With polygon smoothing enabled, and at a typical viewing distance, even the LOD=2 version is fine.


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Winterclaw ( ) posted Tue, 27 October 2009 at 10:09 PM

Hey bill I have a question.  So far everything looks great from the inside so that begs the question... can you use procedural shading for the exterior of buildings?  Like for a city skyline or a neighborhood scene.

Most office buildings wouldn't be too hard I would think because they largely use the same pattern for several floors.  Your ground floor would have some unique entrances and exits and you might have a structure on the roof.

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(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)


JOELGLAINE ( ) posted Tue, 27 October 2009 at 10:19 PM

 I think he wants to do the insides, FIRST and then do the outsides.  I think where a lot of similiar things fell short was they did the outside with our regard to the inside.  Personally, I would prefer some detailed interior geometry and worry about the outside down the road.  That has a sense of logical progression. First you have the horse, THEN you can put a cart behind hind it., ot ride it alone, but no cart before the horse, as old cliches go.:laugh:

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bagginsbill ( ) posted Tue, 27 October 2009 at 11:02 PM

file_441981.jpg

Yes, procedural shaders for the outside is easy.

Here's an old brick shader I wrote years ago - just slap it on.

I haven't done the exterior details at all. Joel is right - I see plenty of decent exteriors, but Poser props are really weak on the interiors. Exteriors are actually easy - there are few details that matter when viewing a building from 100 feet away. I haven't even bothered to extend the window model to the outside yet, but I will. I was really bothered by the lack of good quality interiors for Poser, so I'm making them.

Modern building exteriors are incredibly trivial, both modeling and shading. They use boring materials - lots of glass and concrete. But an old brick factory-turned-condo ... that's something interesting. And homes are really interesting. All in good time.


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DarkEdge ( ) posted Tue, 27 October 2009 at 11:16 PM

file_441982.jpg

Nice Baggins with the level of poly detailing on the door knob. You were able to replicate what I would really model in Max per the different poly counts. Poly counts will need to be kept in check per different users computers, not everyone weilds a beast. Here's abeast at 53,000 polys and I ain't done yet!

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kobaltkween ( ) posted Wed, 28 October 2009 at 2:54 AM

just have to say it: this is amusingly full circle for me.  i remember when i avoided CG in college because it was programming and not art, despite us having one of the best schools in the nation for it at the time.  i started messing with procedural geometry in several years ago (pre-Poser)  with POV-Ray, and stopped because it took too long to make anything real.  now i'm eagerly  following a thread doing exactly what i started using Poser and then Blender to avoid.

i also have to add, what makes this better is that there will be methods to already solve the primary problems.  it's shorter for most people to model this than figure out a definition for a knob, a hinge, molding, etc., but it's much shorter to re-purpose those definitions if you already have them.  there's a lot of architecture i have in my head that i still need to learn more about modeling to make, but this would suit a lot of my basic room needs.



JOELGLAINE ( ) posted Wed, 28 October 2009 at 6:21 AM

 Perhaps it's evolutionary? Back in the ancient of days when doing a mirrored ball over a checkered ground plane was the hot thing, and doing water was an impossible thought, doing models was almost impossible without a room sized super computer.

Now it's peanuts. In another twenty years, children will wonder why we didn't just describe the problem to the PC and tell it to make you a house. :laugh: Things get more evolved, they get simpler to use. Usually.

I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An  inconsistent hobgoblin is the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!   


kobaltkween ( ) posted Wed, 28 October 2009 at 9:18 AM

actually, what's primarily changed is me.  i used to want my art free of scripting/programming.  now, i'm fairly comfortable blending the two.  even in another 20 years, there will probably be people who like using some form of computer language, people who work visually, and people who blend the two.  



Winterclaw ( ) posted Wed, 28 October 2009 at 2:01 PM

Quote - I haven't done the exterior details at all. Joel is right - I see plenty of decent exteriors, but Poser props are really weak on the interiors. Exteriors are actually easy - there are few details that matter when viewing a building from 100 feet away. I haven't even bothered to extend the window model to the outside yet, but I will. I was really bothered by the lack of good quality interiors for Poser, so I'm making them.

Modern building exteriors are incredibly trivial, both modeling and shading. They use boring materials - lots of glass and concrete. But an old brick factory-turned-condo ... that's something interesting. And homes are really interesting. All in good time.

Ah, yeah I can see what you are getting at.  I guess once you get into foot and crown molding, bay windows, floor types, wall textures (like orange peel paint vs wood), different types of doors there's a ton of stuff going on inside the house that need attention. 

However that makes me think of something, maybe there aren't a ton of quality interiors because most vendors don't think they would sell.  I mean why do a boring living room when everyone would buy NVIATWAS shrine number 182 with it's sexy and suggestive included poses?

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

 

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)


Keith ( ) posted Wed, 28 October 2009 at 5:44 PM · edited Wed, 28 October 2009 at 5:45 PM

Quote -
However that makes me think of something, maybe there aren't a ton of quality interiors because most vendors don't think they would sell.  I mean why do a boring living room when everyone would buy NVIATWAS shrine number 182 with it's sexy and suggestive included poses?

Even some of the interiors that are there, quite honestly, suck if you want something that looks like people could live in it.

I ran into this problem recently with one apartment set that shall remain nameless that had a nice layout, included furniture...and had absolutely nowhere to hang a coat.  They modeled a computer desk with CD cases, nice stereo system, bathroom, but didn't think of a coat rack, closet, or any kind of storage for clothing, towels, or sheets.  Half the time I suspect the modelers live in their parents' basement and don't think about things like the laundry.



TrekkieGrrrl ( ) posted Wed, 28 October 2009 at 9:25 PM

Quote - Got my first door knob done.

Since you said "first" I know there'll be more. So please don't forget "normal" handles as well. Where I live, round door knobs are only seen in movies, never in real life. Of course some may have mounted them to be difrferent, but I've never EVER seen a round door knob on a Danish door IRL. Door handles are L-shaped :)
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Will the windows eventually open? And will there also be hinged versions? (like a double door kind of thing?)

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esha ( ) posted Thu, 29 October 2009 at 8:58 AM

This is all just so AWESOME!
I don't know anything about python except that I don't understand it lol

Just a question about your wireframes: Your basic wall has 3 polygons. How does it render with "smooth polygons" enabled? To switch that off for the entire scene is inadvisable if you have other, organic models in the scene ;)


Michael314 ( ) posted Sat, 31 October 2009 at 2:42 PM

Quote -
Just a question about your wireframes: Your basic wall has 3 polygons. How does it render with "smooth polygons" enabled? To switch that off for the entire scene is inadvisable if you have other, organic models in the scene ;)

Hello,
that should not hurt as long as the vertices are not welded.

In blender you can assign an "EdgeSplit" modifier to objects. That prevents smoothing
sharp edges. If you export with or without does not change the number of facets,
just the number of vertices and edges.

Best regards,
    Michael


Little_Dragon ( ) posted Mon, 02 November 2009 at 12:35 AM

Quote - In blender you can assign an "EdgeSplit" modifier to objects. That prevents smoothing
sharp edges.

Poser has similar functions.



bagginsbill ( ) posted Thu, 05 November 2009 at 7:41 PM

Quote - > Quote - Got my first door knob done.

Since you said "first" I know there'll be more. So please don't forget "normal" handles as well. Where I live, round door knobs are only seen in movies, never in real life. Of course some may have mounted them to be difrferent, but I've never EVER seen a round door knob on a Danish door IRL. Door handles are L-shaped :)
(some idas: http://www.billigbyg.com/?ID=38&varegruppeID=98 )

Will the windows eventually open? And will there also be hinged versions? (like a double door kind of thing?)

Yes the windows and doors will open. So will cabinet doors, drawers will open, etc.

I will do other door handles, not just knobs. Will take a while.


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)


bagginsbill ( ) posted Thu, 05 November 2009 at 7:42 PM

file_442517.gif

I got side-tracked from my archi-vis work. I made eyes for Antonia.


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moogal ( ) posted Tue, 10 November 2009 at 4:51 PM

Quote - > Quote - In blender you can assign an "EdgeSplit" modifier to objects. That prevents smoothing

sharp edges.

Poser has similar functions.

Specifically there is a global setting in the render settings panel, but each object also has a smooth option that is turned on by default.  I leave the global smoothing on, but turn it off for most every object in my scenes (besides figures).


xen ( ) posted Wed, 11 November 2009 at 2:24 AM

Attached Link: Houdini Bridge

BB: Amazing for Poser to get functionality like that.

Have you seen this video? It really shows the advantage of a procedural methodology over making each poly manually.


Klebnor ( ) posted Fri, 04 December 2009 at 3:47 PM

Any further progress on this concept?

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bagginsbill ( ) posted Fri, 04 December 2009 at 3:57 PM

Not lately. Been doing paid work too much. :-)

I'll come back to it though - I'm very close to being ready to give away some rooms. Probably won't have moving parts for a while. I'm only generating OBJ files so far. I have to learn how to generate entire Poser prop and figure files so I can set up the moving parts.


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)


carodan ( ) posted Fri, 04 December 2009 at 8:43 PM

I know this is a delayed reaction, but those are cool eyes for Antonia.

Love to see more of these procedural rooms as well - inspiring work.

 

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