When I use the refraction node in Poser 8 on a material the diffuse and transparency channels no longer seem to work. I take my water mesh and in the Materials room I use the default reflection and refraction set-up wacros but then I can't return some opacity to the mesh. Can someone explain what is going on and how to reduce the transparency and add a diffuse color? I am trying to create some what murky pond/lake water. Thank you.

The Poser Surface node adds together many effects - each of its channels contribute to the final rendered pixel.

In order to do this right, you have to start applying some math. Not a lot of math so don't get scared.

Basically, a material like murky water has a mix of diffuse response and refraction. Clear water has zero diffuse and nearly 100% refraction. Murky water has non-zero diffuse and less than 100% refraction.

So - there are a couple ways to do this.

I'll show you.

Turn off the built-in diffuse.

Combine the Refract with a Diffuse node using a Blender. The Blending value will determine the correct proportions between the two nodes automatically. Arranged as I've done, the lower that number, the less clear the water is.

Here I've chosen 11% reflection.

The idea here is a photon can reflect or not, based on a probability. If it does, then there is less light to go through and light up the diffuse stuff. 

Of course, a constant reflection amount is wrong, too. What should go into this new Blender is the result of either the exact Fresnel equation (22 nodes) or my 4-node approximation, published elsewhere in the lake thread.

Here I used a clouds node to make the ratio variable.

Use gray scale colors to represent the numbers. Black = 0, White = 1. RGB 128 corresponds to (approximately) 1/5 or .5. (It's technically 128/255, which is .502).

This look pretty good, IMO.

You have to anti-gamma the diffuse colors coming in, the reflection node, and the refraction node, because those are all incoming material.

Then you gamma correct the final product.

The numbers are .0184, 80, and .078.

 Wow... that is a great help.

See how the grass from the environment sphere is showing like underwater plants? I love it!

Revs up...cracks the whip (again!)
Finish the book!
(Don't forget to add the above to the Special Natural Effects chapter :) )

This is wonderful stuff! Thanks so much for demonstrating this for us. And now my request. Hehe, knew it was coming I bet. I would love to have the pz3 file that is just your Environmental sphere and the water plane. I'd like to study it, lights, cams, and all.

The scene with Terradome looks fantastic.  Thank you for the tutorial.  Just love this stuff!

Quote - This is wonderful stuff! Thanks so much for demonstrating this for us. And now my request. Hehe, knew it was coming I bet. I would love to have the pz3 file that is just your Environmental sphere and the water plane. I'd like to study it, lights, cams, and all.

Glad you all liked this. I was going to save this for my book, but people need water bad. Consider it a free taste - like crack. You will become addicted and buy my book. Besides, I have many more water tricks I haven't told you.

I didn't save the scene, of course. I just toss these together like making popcorn. I don't save them. But I'll make it again and post it.

Thanks so much BB if you would do that! In the early days of Renderosity (when it was called Poser Forum), we all had Poser 3 and 4, meaning we all pretty much had the same toys, and people would put up their pz3 files in the freestuff area and I learned so much from picking apart and studying someone's pz3 file. I still learn best this way. But I will say that I'm getting better at following a screen shot. Took me about ten minutes to build the gamma corrected water shader you demonstrated. Still, I'd very much like to study your lights, camera angle, render settings, ect in the demo you pictured.

Pure excellence! I've never seen Poser water done so well.

Rendered in P8 with IDL - one infinite light and the environment sphere does the rest. I need to find me some good HDR equirectangulars. You can see the result of LDR clipping in the reflection. When a reflection is 20% of whatever being reflected, and that thing is clipped at 1, then the reflection cannot be brighter than .2, ever. The hotspot you see is a specular node reacting to the infinite light, not reflection.

Render time, 42 minutes. Would have been faster, but I had to really crank samples to 6 and shading rate to .2 in order to get those fine razor-thin rim speculars on the bridge rail to look right. I probably should have set shading rates higher on the water and sky and they would have rendered fast.

Beautiful render. 

Quote - The hotspot you see is a specular node reacting to the infinite light, not reflection.

Cause the sun is invisible ... I think you need to remove the specular node . ( I never use specular when i use reflection )

Top notch, BB. Many thanks. 

Wow, BB, you're a man of many talents.

Quote - Here's one I just finished - playing with DarkEdge's new freebie bridge...

Looking very nice BB.
Hey, where's the bimbo and sword? A Katana sword that is.

She fell into the water and sank like a rock because she didn't want to release the sword.

Totally Incredible BB!

Wooooow! Thank you very, very, very much!

Bookmarked

@BB? Whaw, what a great one.

You must drink, eat, and sleep in that Poser Material room. :-)

Smith Micro should put you on retainer. I read through this thread saying with each post "That's a Poser render?"

Quote - > Quote - This is wonderful stuff! Thanks so much for demonstrating this for us. And now my request. Hehe, knew it was coming I bet. I would love to have the pz3 file that is just your Environmental sphere and the water plane. I'd like to study it, lights, cams, and all.

Glad you all liked this. I was going to save this for my book, but people need water bad. Consider it a free taste - like crack. You will become addicted and buy my book. Besides, I have many more water tricks I haven't told you.

I didn't save the scene, of course. I just toss these together like making popcorn. I don't save them. But I'll make it again and post it.

Thank you BB for sharing this. I was searching for a really good Water Mat. since long.

Is there any news about your Book? You Publish it, or it is still in work?

I really want this book badly :D

Great trick as always, but does it work in Poser 7? I tried with the nodes you have set up and it didn't seem to work :o(

I guess I'll have to save my pennies for Poser 8.

Quote - Great trick as always, but does it work in Poser 7? I tried with the nodes you have set up and it didn't seem to work :o(

I guess I'll have to save my pennies for Poser 8.

It works in Poser 7 too. you have to fine tune some values. :)

With Poser Pro 2010, do you still have to set the gamma within the shaders if you are using render gamma?

Shader Gamma should be set to 1 if you intend to use it in your render settings. 

Quote - It works in Poser 7 too. you have to fine tune some values. :)

Would ya be so kind as to post an image of working Poser 7 nodes for this trick? I'm always looking for ways to do water, and one without a texture image is just too useful!

The render is simple, Inside TerraDome, TerraDome light , quick camera setting.

@BB: awesome (as my grandson would say!)  I've been wanting a water material setting - I used to have one ages ago and couldn't remember it (been away from Poser too long)

If any one is still watching this link, I could not get Matmatic to download.  Is there another link or has it been replaced by something else to get a semi realistic water?  I do hope someone is still following this thread and can help!!!!

You can't download from my Google site? Here?

http://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/free-stuff/matmatic

But ... this thread doesn't have any matmatic scripts in it - I built the water shader by hand step by step on page 1.

Wow bb when is that. Booking ouT?  This is some amazing stuff. 

When is the book coming out? Bagginsbill. A year and some months later I ask the same question. 

B00kMark

That water is amazing. Of coruse, these says, I do my rendering with Reality3/Lux, but there are times where Poser can do it just as well.

One question: Why a bump- and not a displacement map for the ripples?