I was wondering about this because at work...all the ladies are so talking..they have a great talent in talking. then they have great talent in problem solving.. Then some of them are studying for Medical records or whatever, and they are really smart. They seem to have learned everything about the medical system..

And they pickup computer skills like nothing.
But they are not into graphics or anything or art. However, I'm sure if they did start studying art and doing graphics that they would be even better than me( WHo is not a good speaker and not good at problem solving in regards to taking to people etc)

I bet you if they started studying art and practicing that they would pickit up fast and become pros.
Well that's what i think.

It seems to me anyone who is a good speaker and outgoing and tries to learn everything and asks tons of questions, can learn anything.

By the way, i dont mean modeling necesarily, i mean just posing characters and making animation or nice renders.

For years Mac users have been telling me that the Mac is better than the PC for doing graphics.  So I would say that a typical Mac user probably doesn't need talent or a PC to do great 3D work.

well, cain't speak for others, but I think...
There's tools, and talent. Talent will go farther than tools. Talent gets more out of the existing tools.

As time goes on, you learn some tricks. The stuff  I did 9 years ago is not as good as what I can do now...but the real thing is getting it out of your head into the computer by way of your fingers...;)

You have to have an 'eye' for something. It takes time, practice, and for some it comes easier than others.

Being an extrovert or introvert may have some small impact, but in the end, it all comes down to you (whomever you are)

Agreeing with Pakled, essentially.

There's technique, and there's talent. You can be a great artist but be lacking in technique (which you can learn). And you can be an excellent technician but be totally devoid of any artistic ability. Not sure, but I sort-of doubt that can be taught.

Quote - Agreeing with Pakled, essentially.

There's technique, and there's talent. You can be a great artist but be lacking in technique (which you can learn). And you can be an excellent technician but be totally devoid of any artistic ability. Not sure, but I sort-of doubt that can be taught.

Thank heavens someone has actually said it!and Im sure it cant be taught as your either artistic or not,on the other hand most artistic people are terrible buissneess people, whereas the technical person can usually sell snow to the eskimos :)

p

I agree with you to some extent, josterD. But I think many more people have the raw capability to learn how to use the tools and techniques than would have the interest or the creative impulse to do anything meaningful with them.

Interest is the primary motivator for learning. With no interest in a subject, no-one is ever likely to learn much about it. I recall two long years at school grappling with Pure Mathematics, which bored me silly back then. Applied Mathematics, on the other hand, I could do standing on my head, simply because it sparked my interest.

I think the thing that is not so easy to teach/learn is the creative impulse... the mindset of imagining something, or seeing something in the world, or perhaps in others' artistic work, that inspires creativity in oneself.

Quote - For years Mac users have been telling me that the Mac is better than the PC for doing graphics.  So I would say that a typical Mac user probably doesn't need talent or a PC to do great 3D work.

Well, there's my problem! LOL 

There are some fields like sales and politics where being extroverted (or being able to fake it really well) are pretty much a requirement for success. I imagine that in the more collaborative creative fields, perhaps like movie director, being more outgoing and able to communicate verbally are probably very valuable. For solo work, I don’t think it matters that much – some great artists are notorious recluses. It may be that artists as a whole tend to one side of the scale or the other but you’ll probably find a lot of variation.

As in the previous great talent debates, I definitely agree that the “talent” part is harder to teach and is more of an inherent trait. You can teach color theory, rendering techniques, the “Golden Mean,” anatomy etc. but the end result isn’t necessarily a talented, creative artist, as opposed to technically proficient. You can be a great technical photographer for example, but knowing the one little prop that will transform the picture or knowing when to catch that one fleeting moment that really captures the personality of a subject are the kind of things that are IMO as much instinct as anything else. That’s not to say that years of practice can’t yield excellent results but there’s always something that separates the good from the not as good. There are plenty of examples where passion for something pushes people to expand, but in reality, everyone’s passion has its limits. I’m sure if I read that book on string theory one more time I’d learn more than I did the first or the second but…

P.S. the “ladies at work” are probably too limited a pool for developing interpersonal skills. An established flock of hens (or cocks) can be difficult to break into, especially if you tend to be introverted to begin with. Doing something like taking a class where no one knows each other to start with might be better IMO.
 

Quote - For years Mac users have been telling me that the Mac is better than the PC for doing graphics.  So I would say that a typical Mac user probably doesn't need talent or a PC to do great 3D work.

Strange - I've worked on both for years and haven't seen a difference yet ;o).

Could that mean I have NO talent?! Oh my...

;o)

Laurie

 ~lol~ @ SamTherapy

A true artist needs imagination, a workman needs tools.  Nuff said?

Exactly - anyone, given a copy of Poser can make a render. That doesn't mean the imagery will be great, evoke emotion or cause one to think.  Sometimes, a render is just a render but they can do it. It takes a lot more effort and dedication to put some thought behind what your image is saying or even how best to present the elements of the render.  So yes,those ladies at your job,  they could learn to use Poser in a day - it's really quite simple - but will they use it well? Not likely.

**Disclaimer:
No actual animals were harmed nor any talent used in this render....

:o)~**

OK JV , I am confused by your mixed message in that picture

1. beating a dead horse ?
2. always panda to your viewers ;)
3. Is she wearing pants of any sort ?

If the intention is entertainment mainly , with some nice comments from friends then I think most people can learn poser well enough  to achieve that.  Great works of art that people will PAY to have , not so much.

As  a final thought consider how much poser porn is out there on the web.

Nothing beats raw natural ability, and without it, even world-class training will only get a person part way.

Anyone can sing. Not everyone should sing.

doing excellent 3d renders requires years of experience and an huge catalog of files IMVHO.
 new poser users can't do excellent renders, because they use defaults:

• no shadows (bad lite settings)
• no clothes
• no facial expressions
• no props
• stiff poses
• empty scenes
• bad AO/IDL settings
• bad render settings

whether OS X or vista don't matter, altho mac users can run windows (intel) files using
crossover.app.  I would not waste money on parallels, as crossover don't need a vista
install on OS X machine.  I found the parallels ad started to reappear above, even tho I've got
flash ads blocked, because it's run by a java app.  disabling browser java (not included in
new html5 standard) cures that problem right quick.  of course, html5 devices already have
java and flash disabled.

well, in my imagination, I do professional level (ie., a lot more detail...;) pity I can't get it through my fingers to the mouse and keyboard.. Actually it's more laziness; I don't have the patience to take more than a few hours to do a pic...;)

Hey, no one said this had to be a master class. Over time, you can get better; but it does take work...

Well, with 50,000 hours experience in Poser we can paint the Last Super...

Quote - For years Mac users have been telling me that the Mac is better than the PC for doing graphics.  So I would say that a typical Mac user probably doesn't need talent or a PC to do great 3D work.

Mac users say a lot of things. I just smile and keep on using my inexpensive PC with more software than a Mac.

Personality has nothing to do with having artistic, or any, talent.

I've seen extremely shy people who had excellent abilities in art or music while more outgoing people just thought they did...lol.

I will admit, it helps to be a little more outgoing in personality if you are talented.
Shy people tend to hide the talents.

On a more serious note: no. I would guess about 90% of people on a PC or Mac would not have the patience or perseverance to last more than a month. There's a lot of reading involved, and learning things like refraction values, reflection properties, normal mapping, differences in system gamma settings, color mapping, etc., and then you can apply the artistic techniques. Dedication is the primary ingredient, because, without it, you can't anywhere.

A good final render is a tedious journey.

(BTW, I sing a lot... but it does frighten dogs and small children...)
 

Am I the only one who thinks that the OP should have his posting privileges revoked for a while till he stops posting shit like this?

I for one am getting tired of  "Is poser art?"  and "Why can Maya/Max (any other ridiculously expensive program) make more realistic images than Poser?"

Asking for help threads are ok because hell, everyone needs help now and then, but random posts and posts meant to stir up crap are just unnecessary.

I think he is trolling and just sitting back watching everyone discuss whatever subject he trots out of the bin of bullshit subjects that he has out back.

I'd call it more like free association or rambling - sometimes interesting, sometimes not . I've never gotten the impression of trolling, but I suppose one person's troll is another's billy goat gruff - ahem. Banning seems a tad harsh when one can easily avoid it by the age old dictum - 'check the nick before you click :-)

Quote - Am I the only one who thinks that the OP should have his posting privileges revoked for a while till he stops posting shit like this?

Very likely, yes.

I don't think the OP is to blame for the irrelevant drivel about what "Mac users" say, which would be best ignored. The rest seems to me to be an open discussion based on genuine interest. Those not interested should just click off and leave others to it.

I'd much rather revoke the privileges of those who use unnecessary foul language in their posts.

Quote - I'd call it more like free association or rambling - sometimes interesting, sometimes not . I've never gotten the impression of trolling, but I suppose one person's troll is another's billy goat gruff - ahem. Banning seems a tad harsh when one can easily avoid it by the age old dictum - 'check the nick before you click :-)

I never said ban them.  and its more like a trainwreck reaction now when I see a thread with their name as the starter.  like oh what are they spouting now? In fact I just remembered how long  people in the poser community  have tolerated people who do stuff like this so forget I said anything.

Quote - > Quote - Am I the only one who thinks that the OP should have his posting privileges revoked for a while till he stops posting shit like this?

Very likely, yes.

I don't think the OP is to blame for the irrelevant drivel about what "Mac users" say, which would be best ignored. The rest seems to me to be an open discussion based on genuine interest. Those not interested should just click off and leave others to it.

I'd much rather revoke the privileges of those who use unnecessary foul language in their posts.

Ok, the original post is not  a pc vs mac argument the pc in the title is for Personal Computer which is intel, mac, commodore 64 or whatever.

And what are you a 97 year old church lady or something? Are you going to implode if you see a few words? (that's all they are is words nothing more nothing less) You are going to see and hear profanity in the world and considering I am a former sailor You'll likely see more profanity of some sort from me in the future. If they wanted no profanity on this site they would have put it in the TOS instead of giving us a profanity tag (which I did click when I made my post by the way.) If you are so offended by profanity maybe you should avoid threads with the profanity tag.

I haven't yet seen a thread by the OP that didn't at least start out interesting.
And he's polite and doesn't use abusive language.
And he's considerate enough to prefix the threads with 'OT' so as to not waste anyone's time, even though most of the threads have at least some connection with this hobby.
And his thread titles usually give enough information for you to decide whether it's of interest or not.
And he doesn't break the TOS.

I can't see a problem, except with anyone who so readily wants to resort to censorship just because he doesn't like what someone else wants to talk about.

Some of the things the OP's wanted to say might challenge views otherwise taken for granted, they may be rhetorical or whatever. He's clearly thinking about things from an angle that most of us (ok, me:-) wouldn't even consider. Perhaps we don't consider it because we don't find it interesting or relevant. Or perhaps our thinking is simply too narrow-minded?

Whatever, it's highly unlikely that censorship and abuse of fellow members is likely to enhance the Poser community.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Am I the only one who thinks that the OP should have his posting privileges revoked for a while till he stops posting shit like this?

Very likely, yes.

I don't think the OP is to blame for the irrelevant drivel about what "Mac users" say, which would be best ignored. The rest seems to me to be an open discussion based on genuine interest. Those not interested should just click off and leave others to it.

I'd much rather revoke the privileges of those who use unnecessary foul language in their posts.

Ok, the original post is not  a pc vs mac argument the pc in the title is for Personal Computer which is intel, mac, commodore 64 or whatever.

And what are you a 97 year old church lady or something? Are you going to implode if you see a few words? (that's all they are is words nothing more nothing less) You are going to see and hear profanity in the world and considering I am a former sailor You'll likely see more profanity of some sort from me in the future. If they wanted no profanity on this site they would have put it in the TOS instead of giving us a profanity tag (which I did click when I made my post by the way.) If you are so offended by profanity maybe you should avoid threads with the profanity tag.

No, she's not. I, on the other hand, am. I find your response offensive, not his original comment. Relax: the OP was asking a reasonable question... nothing for you to get all hot under the collar about.
By all means please do read the TOS for this forum... you will find yourself in breach of them with your "few words", not the OP.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Am I the only one who thinks that the OP should have his posting privileges revoked for a while till he stops posting shit like this?

Very likely, yes.

I don't think the OP is to blame for the irrelevant drivel about what "Mac users" say, which would be best ignored. The rest seems to me to be an open discussion based on genuine interest. Those not interested should just click off and leave others to it.

I'd much rather revoke the privileges of those who use unnecessary foul language in their posts.

Ok, the original post is not  a pc vs mac argument the pc in the title is for Personal Computer which is intel, mac, commodore 64 or whatever.

And what are you a 97 year old church lady or something? Are you going to implode if you see a few words? (that's all they are is words nothing more nothing less) You are going to see and hear profanity in the world and considering I am a former sailor You'll likely see more profanity of some sort from me in the future. If they wanted no profanity on this site they would have put it in the TOS instead of giving us a profanity tag (which I did click when I made my post by the way.) If you are so offended by profanity maybe you should avoid threads with the profanity tag.

No, she's not. I, on the other hand, am. I find your response offensive, not his original comment. Relax: the OP was asking a reasonable question... nothing for you to get all hot under the collar about.
By all means please do read the TOS for this forum... you will find yourself in breach of them with your "few words", not the OP.

I have read the TOS before and I just read it again. As far as I can tell, I have broken no rules at all. I never said I was "hot under the collar" mad or anything, to the op's post I said

"I for one am getting tired of  "Is poser art?"  and "Why can Maya/Max (any other ridiculously expensive program) make more realistic images than Poser?"

I meant that in general, not just from op, but it does seem like op posts an awful lot of threads in that same vein.

As I said I just read the TOS again nowhere does it say that profanity is banned on this site. If you are referring to my question about if they are a 97 year old church lady that is not  even an attack and I don't see how you could think it was one considering I was asking not declaring so I was not calling anyone anything (as if calling someone a 97 year old church lady is a TOS violation)

I am sure that if I am in the wrong a mod will come by and let me know that I am an evil person for typing hell two shits (one with a bull dragging it around) and a crap in three posts ... where are the rolling eyes smileys when I need them?

I just realized that this thread is not exactly encompassed by "is poser art" and "why cant poser render better" threads. It just closely resembles an argument I have had with people before on whether just anyone can get the same results with or without artistic talent on poser because of  their supposed "fact" that you cant make anything with poser because it can't create anything because it is all premade content. That subject irritates me because the people who say that will never even try to do it themselves because of their superiority complex (given them by their hacked or learning edition copies of software they will likely never be able to afford full legitimate versions of)

Just to clarify things, I have nothing against the op (I wish he would choose his thread topics better sometimes but have nothing against him) and I was not saying ban him I never said that. I just didn't think about how one usually keeps someone from posting on this site so forget that.

What am I doing arguing on a forum I have 4 hours till a paper is due.

You can make great render with poser, as long as you take the time, the only problem is firefly, it's not the fastest render engine, it's sure.

You can have a Mac or a PC, Maya or Poser, 3DS or Imagine, if you dont take the time to work the details of your scene, it's result a bad picture, all people said it, ligntning is 50% of the render, bad light -> bad picture.

Mac or PC it's just a matter of taste, nothing is better than the other, it's the legend of " i've a mac i'm better", completly stupid ...

This thread is nothing than another troll ...

"you cant make anything with poser because it can't create anything because it is all premade content. That subject irritates me because the people who say that ..." 

LoL There you go, The topic/presentation irritated you. Happens to me all the time & I'm sure most of us. Commenting on those aspects is fine - seldom solves anything but venting is natural. Suggesting that the person is a troll though is a bit of an inappropriate response - just my opinion. Thankfully, there usually aren't many of these creature around here and the OP certainly isn't one - again in my opinion.

I used to work with the Navy and probably heard less cussing on the station than out in the community. Even the grizzled old Chiefs and the jarheads were pretty tame. Kinda disappointing actually after all the salty  lore. Of course they were brown shoes, not "real" sailors* :-)

Ha ha, I do remember that anyone walking around with their fly unzipped was said to be "trolling for Chiefs."

Good luck with your paper!

• Just kidding airdales, at ease.

OP is not a troll.  he's just trying to learn things.  trolls are users who flout or ignore the
hierarchy in which other users perceive themselves.  it's not a good idea to do the latter IMVHO,
as it trivialises the concept that some users may want recognition and respect for their seniority.
it's something they heard all their lives (show some respect for one's elders), hence they've
come to believe it.  OP has never disrespected anyone, nor has he been rude in any way AFAIK.

 I think that it is Imagination, to get what you see in  your head into your 3D Art and that is not easy.
I have seen Poser Users with over 2000 Imags in their Gallery and the last one still looks like the first one when they started BUT I also have seen Poser Users that have only 16 Images in their Gallery and the first one is as Fantastic as the last.

With some time it is easy to get to know a program fairly good but NO time in the World makes you creative if it is not in you.

Just my humble Opinion.

Geez, how this turn into an ouchy thread? True, I don't keep track of who's posting what. If the subject's interesting, comment. If it's not, don't comment. No need to get upset because the thread exists. Life's too short, and there are better things to stress about. 

Guys....

If you don't like a thread topic.. do not click it..or even better don't reply to it. No one told you as a member you must reply to every thread. Who should be banned or not.. is only up the members of staff. If you feel there is a problem with a thread you may email me or any other staff member. I see nothing wrong with questions being asked in the forum. That is why it is here.

Quote - Guys....

If you don't like a thread topic.. do not click it..or even better don't reply to it. No one told you as a member you must reply to every thread. Who should be banned or not.. is only up the members of staff. If you feel there is a problem with a thread you may email me or any of staff member. I see nothing wrong with questions being asked in the forum. That is why it is here.

I was just in a pissy mood earlier because I had about 500 words left to write on a 1000 word paper on a subject I did not know that much about and didn't want to try to find more sources because I hate trying to write a works cited page. I finally got it done though so I I'm in a much better mood now.

I was not trying to say ban JosterD what I did say sounded like it though because I was not thinking much when I wrote it sorry bout that. Just ignore my original post (not gonna delete it because things tend to look funny when someone deletes their posts  and still has the responses of others on the board.

Thanks guys for your responsses. Yeah i kind of see it. It takes interest to start doing something. Even my coworker who studying medical records,, she is taking an art class just for the fun of it but I don't think she's really into it. She was asking some other guy who likes art, but she was asking about her homework as if it was some kind of math problem that you can solve.

She wasn't looking at it as a personal expression thing.

Actually.... www.colorpilot.com/comp_rules.html it is based on math. Some people have a feel for it, others have to use guides. Another or the basics you have to learn to turn doodles into a cohesive work.  

Quote - I was just in a pissy mood earlier because I had about 500 words left to write on a 1000 word paper on a subject I did not know that much about and didn't want to try to find more sources because I hate trying to write a works cited page. I finally got it done though so I I'm in a much better mood now.

I was not trying to say ban JosterD what I did say sounded like it though because I was not thinking much when I wrote it sorry bout that. Just ignore my original post (not gonna delete it because things tend to look funny when someone deletes their posts  and still has the responses of others on the board.

lol I understand about the paper. I'm pretty darn crabby when I have to write my essays. (I stay off here when I have to write lol) May re-read when you post tho in the future. Thanks for explaining :)

josterD is like those aliens on The Twilight Zone that play with the electricity for a block of homes on Maple Street at night and then sit back and watch the neighbors start eating each other's young.

josterD is mearly exposing the people like dasquid that come out of the woodwork.

Quote - josterD is like those aliens on The Twilight Zone that play with the electricity for a block of homes on Maple Street at night and then sit back and watch the neighbors start eating each other's young.

josterD is mearly exposing the people like dasquid that come out of the woodwork.

I'm not really in the woodwork I just had a bad day.

Quote - josterD is like those aliens on The Twilight Zone that play with the electricity for a block of homes on Maple Street at night and then sit back and watch the neighbors start eating each other's young.

josterD is mearly exposing the people like dasquid that come out of the woodwork.

I'm of the opinion that the OP is troll due to the nature of the topics he continually posts are always topics that have been through the ringer so many times in the past and have always been the sort that ended poorly and folks were at each others throats!!  (sorry for the run on sentence!)

If he's not a troll then perhaps he may benefit from the forum search functionality.  Maybe take a look at a similar topic from 5-10 years ago to glean an answer to his question that way.  Lots of us were here then, and I betcha the answers to his current questions would be remarkably similar to the answers in those old forum posts.

Gerard

Quote - If he's not a troll then perhaps he may benefit from the forum search functionality.  Maybe take a look at a similar topic from 5-10 years ago to glean an answer to his question that way.

Maybe the search revealed that there has always been fighting amongst the members here rather than answers and that there will always continue to be fighting by more members in the future.

...or maybe the search function didn't turn up anything, because the magic word wasn't guessed, or maybe it didn't occur to him, or maybe fresh responses were sought. As far as I can see, the OP is asking a question, and getting varied responses. Quite a calm discussion, for the most part.

If no one posted a question that had been asked before, there wouldn't be much going on here.

Since I can't come up with a way to say what I'm really thinking without sounding rude, I'll stop here.

I'm of the firm opinion that the OP is NOT a troll, but is a newb and is probably a little challenged, to put it politely. If answering his posts is too tough or annoying for you, just move on. I know I know, I called him a troll a few months back. My bad. I've changed my mind though and think he's just in need of "Special" attention.

Ok guys, I didn't notice the topic was talking bad about another member. Last time I remembered it was the the staff that decided if someone was a troll.

Again, if you don't like the thread don't click it and don't reply to it.

If a witch hunt continues I will be sending warnings for personal attacks.

also this thread is going to be locked because it is fair off from what it was intended.