I've been having that very problem in the material room...lol. That's where I really don't understand things ;o). "What exactly does this do?" "What does that do if I attach it to this?". In all honesty, I've been trying to get a grip on the material room for years so I guess that's why, when I got a moderately good result in the cloth room, I felt rather lucky ;o). It didn't seem near the obstacle that the material room does. If the shaders worked more like they do in Vue, I'd have had them down in no time...lol.

Now, let's not even talk about the hair room...

Laurie

Quote -  

At first, I assumed (incorrectly, it turns out) that this would somehow affect how the cloth bends and folds. After all, something that's incredibly dense will fold less easily than something that's a lot less dense. How wrong I was! Instead, the reverse sometimes happens from what you'd expect with a 'dense' (using my incorrect definition) cloth.

For sure! Just think of a light cotton dress. Not very dense. Doesn't drape much either but holds it's shape a little more. Now think of velvet. Very heavy and dense. Drapes over every curve and crease ;o).

They might have made it understood better if they had named it "Cloth Weight" rather than Density since that's what it really equates to ;o).

Laurie

Quote - http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/full.php?image_id=2035024

LaurieA your picture sort of answers a question I have about dynamic stuff. I was wondering if you could use layered skirts in poser? Is the top part of the skirt constrained in any way?

Definitely. I'm going to add to this thread whenever I gather some useful, practical info about those cryptic parameters. Not sure how much more I'll find, but the Cloth Density thing has made a huge improvement to my simulations already.

The picture attached is my progress so far. I used the same settings as the original skirt on page 1, but increased its Cloth Density up to the point where it was no longer eating its way through her legs and the chair. The other tweak I did was to increase the Stretch Resistance to 320 (for no reason than I was playing around with things and just left it at that).

Compared to this time yesterday, it's a massive leap forward. Still not perfect, but an improvement.

Quote - > Quote -  

At first, I assumed (incorrectly, it turns out) that this would somehow affect how the cloth bends and folds. After all, something that's incredibly dense will fold less easily than something that's a lot less dense. How wrong I was! Instead, the reverse sometimes happens from what you'd expect with a 'dense' (using my incorrect definition) cloth.

For sure! Just think of a light cotton dress. Not very dense. Doesn't drape much either but holds it's shape a little more. Now think of velvet. Very heavy and dense. Drapes over every curve and crease ;o).

They might have made it understood better if they had named it "Cloth Weight" rather than Density since that's what it really equates to ;o).

Laurie

Now you're talking, Laurie! *You've made sense of it based on what it actually does and have come up with a name and a behavior for it that makes sense to the rest of us. *THANK you!! And this is the point of this thread: making this complex room a little less so. I reckon these pointers should end up in a FAQ or wiki or something. Of course, it would be nice if SM were paying attention.

Quote - > Quote - http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/full.php?image_id=2035024

LaurieA your picture sort of answers a question I have about dynamic stuff. I was wondering if you could use layered skirts in poser? Is the top part of the skirt constrained in any way?

The peplum is actually part of the whole dress and there is a row of verts around the top of it that is constrained. The rest of it is set to soft-decorated. There is also a matching row in the same area on the main body of the dress that is also constrained at the waist. Of course, the top hem above the cleavage is also constrained ;o). It's in my freestuff if you wanna examine it. It's for the figure Angela tho...lol. But at least it'll give an idea of how I set it up. I do examine what other people have done with their cloth meshes from time to time. It helps.

Laurie

Much improved johnpf :oD. I wanted to mention that as far as poke thru goes (and you'll get small parts that don't behave from time to time) that the morph brush pushes and pulls those out nicely :o).

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - And in order to get reasonably good results in this cloth room, a comprehensive understanding of the parameters and variables one deals with is going to ensure a much quicker, more consistent success ratio than the trial-and-error approach

Definitely. I'm going to add to this thread whenever I gather some useful, practical info about those cryptic parameters. Not sure how much more I'll find, but the Cloth Density thing has made a huge improvement to my simulations already.

The picture attached is my progress so far. I used the same settings as the original skirt on page 1, but increased its Cloth Density up to the point where it was no longer eating its way through her legs and the chair. The other tweak I did was to increase the Stretch Resistance to 320 (for no reason than I was playing around with things and just left it at that).

Compared to this time yesterday, it's a massive leap forward. Still not perfect, but an improvement.

That really looks much better... maybe there is hope?

I think one of the things I find frustrating is how long it takes to run a simulation.  If something goes wrong then you have to do it again.. sometimes takes as long to do a simulation as a half decent render.

Any tips on making that shorter?

Delaney

one request.

that in time this all gets boiled down into an easy to read manual?

DPHoadley's Victorian dress is composed of two garments for Posette spliced together: the formal blouse and the formal dress. It has a modelled collar, button band, basque and modelled in pleats. The vertices in the skirt follow the line of the v-shaped basque. The skirt is relatively low-poly. It looks great as a conforming garment in a standing pose.

In the cloth room, it is a disaster. We tried just clothifying the skirt and keeping the bodice conforming, or clothifying the whole dress. Either way, the simulation takes for ever, and if we try to clothify the bodice, the simulation fails (I assume because the bodice is too tight fitting and touches the body somewhere ??).

The end result (or the result at the point where the simulation fails) is a jagged mess  with holes in the skirt. Can't even be fixed in post-work.

Earlier somebody with apparent knowledge said that it was all in the mesh. Is this the problem here?

Quote - ....The peplum is actually part of the whole dress and there is a row of verts around the top of it that is constrained. The rest of it is set to soft-decorated. There is also a matching row in the same area on the main body of the dress that is also constrained at the waist. Of course, the top hem above the cleavage is also constrained ;o). It's in my freestuff if you wanna examine it. It's for the figure Angela tho...lol. But at least it'll give an idea of how I set it up. I do examine what other people have done with their cloth meshes from time to time. It helps. Laurie

Thanks, I will have a look, I was wanting ti design a dress with an over skirt like that but longer, but wondered if you could do that in Poser.

If I use it as a hybrid and only clothify the skirt, I get better results. I had some problems of poking through at the knees but fixed that by using the additional collision options. The simulation takes about 10 minutes. The results could probably be improved with postwork.

The difference between the two skirts is that in mine, the polys don't follow the v shape in the skirt. I tried to keep them fairly level and square. The skirt in this garment is moderately low poly, but most of the polys are square, and there are no modelled pleats.

Earlier in the thread somebody said that it was "all in the mesh". What are the characteristics of a mesh that will work well in the cloth room? I kind find guidance in the manual.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I just kept playing with the settings until they looked right. No rocket science there

I'm going to assume that you mean these: Collision Offset: 0.3
Collision Depth: 0.3
Static Friction: 0.5
Dynamic Friction: 0.1

Collision Friction: No
Fold Resistance: 40
Shear Resistance: 150
Stretch Resistance: 100
Stretch Damping: 0.1
Cloth Density: 0.1
Cloth Self-friction: 0.5
Static Friction: 0.8
Dynamic Friction: 0.6
Air Damping: 0.02

settings.

In no way was I implying that I am brilliant and everyone else is dense. It's just that I have a tendency, when faced with a particular challenge, to keep at it, sometimes ad nauseum. I stop when I get what I'm after. I, like a lot of you, don't really understand why certain things work and why certain things don't and I agree with Delaney that the settings are all over the place as far as decimal point. I'm just tenacious is all, but certainly not any smarter than anyone else...lol.

Laurie

I owe you a apology, Laurie. Please accept it. You are one of the bright lights in this community, especially in the area of dynamic cloth and modelling: I had no right to make the remarks I did.

Besides my remarks being unkind, my expectations were unrealistic. I guess I see you in the same light as Bagginsbill except for dynamics: your results speak for themselves. I guess I thought you meant (by rocket science) this aspect of Poser is so easy that anyone should get it, but now I realise you were referring to your technique.

As far as tenacity goes: that's how I've been with the material room. To be honest, apart from some key principles that we have all had the privilege to hear, I'm still floundering in there as well. I guess in the cloth room, my floundering is more spectacularly dismal.

Oh, please, please don't consider me a bagginsbill of any sort. My safaris into the cloth room are trial and error for the most part, just like the rest of you, but I suppose I might be slightly luckier than some with my results? I'm no guru. A guru knows what everything is and what it's used for. That's not me...lol.

Laurie

Quote - so somebody tell me wha tthe heck I'm doing wrong!

Not enough info...what's the res of the mesh? What are your collision settings (what parts of the figure do you have colliding with the cloth?). What are your dynamic groups? Your collision distance? Number of frames?

This is the problem with diagnosing someone's problems, because in the cloth room there are just so many variables.

Laurie

55 frames.  Full pose at fram 40.  Hip still placed above the divan at frame 40, so as to provide space between it and the divan for the dressto clothify. 

Top of dress conforming, hip clothfied.  Hip completely constrained

Collides against Posette's body, except for the head.  Also the ground and the divan.

No dynamic groups, as have no idea what those are.

dph

try being above from frame 0 and holding there.

Quote - 55 frames.  Full pose at fram 40.  Hip still placed above the divan at frame 40, so as to provide space between it and the divan for the dressto clothify. 

Top of dress conforming, hip clothfied.  Hip completely constrained

Collides against Posette's body, except for the head.  Also the ground and the divan.

No dynamic groups, as have no idea what those are.

dph

Dynamic groups are the parts of the mesh that can (or not) have a different type of dynamics applied to them such as constrained, soft-decorated, rigid, choreographed. For instance, in the image I showed earlier in the thread, the peplum on that dress had a constrained group at the top of the peplum while the rest of it was soft-decorated. Not saying you should change what you already have, just trying to explain it ;o).

Laurie

I haven't been around much the last few weeks, and the only thing I have worked on was an image for my niece. She asked me to make a pic with her as a super hero, and wanted "Nemo" colors. Don't ask me, she's 15, so who knows what's going thru her head. Anyways, the suit is dynamic, as I didn't want to spend the time rigging it, and I like dynamic clothes anyway. Had to veer away from V4, for "size" differences, so I used Stephanie petite, seemed to fit the build better. Here is the end result, with BB's VSS used with the textures made from her photos, and the most complicated node setup I have ever had to put together on the suit. She likes it, so I am happy with it.

If anyone needs the link for the clothroom settings and their effects, just lemme know, I have posted it many times, and have no problem posting it again, as it has been just about the most useful link I have found that covers the cloth room.

Quote - Top of dress conforming, hip clothfied.  Hip completely constrained

Out of interest, what happens when you run the simulation without any constrained group? (Go to one of the Edit options---doesn't matter which---, select the "default" group from the dropdown list, press Add All.) I'm not saying this is necessarily the problem you're having here, but it's something worth trying. And I'd like to see the results anyway, no matter what happens!

Yes, a dress like that needs no constrained groups because nothing is really going to slip off - long sleeved tight neck ;o).

Dynamic cloth definitely takes some thought. Constrained groups are only needed when there's a chance something is going to slip completely off like some skirts, spaghetti straps, strapless dresses, etc. A long sleeved turtle neck for instance wouldn't need any constrained groups.

Laurie

the is the results, the dress does't fall through the knees, but neither does it drape about them.  Something between these extremes is needed.

dph

Your Cloth Density is quite low. In my experiments so far, having it as low as that will make it reluctant to drape much. Try a higher value, around about 0.05 to 0.075. If it's still not draping right, increase it a bit further, perhaps to 0.1. If the skirt starts to fall through the figure's legs and the divan, you've gone too high and a lower Cloth Density is needed.

I only know this because it's the exact problem I was having for most of Saturday and Sunday!

Just out of curiosity, what does the dress's mesh look like? The way it's bulging up at the top of the thighs makes me think you have some large polys there.

Laurie

dphy mistake in my previous post.  In the my previous simulation, I constrained the whole skirt, down to the feet.  No I folloed the suggestion, and removed all constraint.  as you can see, the simulation tore her skirt off, and left her half naked.

dph

Quote - as you can see, the simulation tore her skirt off, and left her half naked.

That's a bit unfortunate indeed!

Do you have any objection to sending me the mesh and having a go myself? I'm intrigued now, since I've got a bunch of settings from my Weekend of Frustration that are now working on just about everything I throw them at, as long as I don't want to mimic any particular type of fabric and just want a basic "draped material" look.

dp...by any chance do you have the figure sitting at frame zero? If you do, have her standing at first frame and then sitting down at last frame. There's no reason that should tear like that unless the resolution of the mesh is really low or some verts are not welded... And yes, your "Cloth Density" or "cloth weight" is really, really low. Take John's advice and turn it up more. Try 0.0200.

Laurie

dph

Now... to find out how to change settings so that I can have tissue paper, lace, or rubber sheeting, and---most importantly---be able to simulate these fabrics without huge heaps of guesswork.

dph

@johnpf:

you can smooth those crinklies out with the morph brush set to smooth ;o).

Laurie

@dp:

Not sure what your problem is. You didn't say if you had her standing at frame one then sitting. Your cloth density is now probably much too high. Turn fold resistance down, not up. Also not a good idea to have no dynamic or static friction. You can probably keep that at least at the default.

Laurie

I have her standing at frame 1, and sitting at frame 40, of the 60 frame simulation.  Not sure about cloth density, and now very confused.  If too low, clath fallthrough leg, and if too high cloth falls through leg!

Why does this remind me of goldilocks and the three bears.

dph

Know how I learned? I changed only one thing at a time and then made a mental note of what I saw in the results. Time consuming? You bet ;o). Was worth it...lol.

Something to ponder: if the dial says Resistance, Damping or Friction, you're going to get more of that the more you increase it. If you want to resist folds, turn that up. If you want it to fold a little more, turn it down. I know the dials are confuddling, but mostly because of the increments being different between each thing. Some are tenths and some are hundreths. But they all go the same way: up for more and down for less.

Laurie

Attached Link: Cloth Room Settings and their Effect

Hallelujah brother ;o). Thanks BR...lol.

Laurie

I'm back, and this thread has exploded a bit, so may posts, so many questions, and only a few answered. And I'm only halfway reading right now. As I promised in my first post (halfway page 1) I'm happy to help you out as far as I can, but I need some time to catch up, and to figure out a reasonable way to act on all of this without writing the "easy to read manual" (@magnusgreel, Dec-6 4:18am) in one lengthy post. But as I promised in that same post a "tutorial" (I guess it will be tens of pages) will find its way. Why do paying day-jobs take all day? On top of that, just answering those questions will not make a consistent story, it will be rather fragmented. While most of you are interested in some backgrounds, the why's behind the parameters, their names, scales, behaviour and effects. The link just posted by BionicRooster is a good start, by the way.

JohnPf asked for images, results. That might be a way to take off. I'll give you some, and talk you through the making and all my considerations, and try to address many existing questions on the fly. Feel free to add more.

English is not my native language, and I'm a bad typer. So, it might be my bad explanation (likely), just a wrong wording or typing (very likely) but it's not you. And I'm not the ultimate guru on dynamics either, but I do have a strong background in simulation, I do understand cloth, and all I have to do is figure out what the SM guys/girls made out of it in Poser. I did play with Poser from version 1 on, but just some time ago I started to look more closely in order to make something out of it.

So here is one image. It's not perfect yet, it still has some quirks around the waist and I forgot to check the shoes for collision. The image is one frame from a 18 second animation sequence, having Mannequin (=Vicky derivative, from DAZ) dancing wild in a gown, on (existing) music. In the end I'll have the full 3:40 piece covered, but not this year. The gown is Benefit Gala Dress (http://www.runtimedna.com/Benefit-Gala-for-V4.html), turned from conforming into dynamic and retextured. 

Note that the animation was intended (and still is) part of a lighting study, on doing softboxes and similar reallife photostudio tools in Poser. But about all the problems you described in this thread occurred, and I won over (most of) them by know. I'm happy to share. Tomorrow, as it's midnight over here. Sorry for the cliffhanger, but I thought you might enjoy some cheering up right now.

Just a tip for all of you who might suffer a dip from Cloth Room. Look at some of Rianeli's pictures on this site, and remake them entirely into Poser, as exact as possible. Just Pose, Camera and (especially!) Light. Nothing else. No clothes at all. In case you thought lighting was simple and clothing difficult. Then try Fand's images, just adding some decor and a prop, still no clothes. Then cloth room feels like a relief. It works for me. 

Quote - Then cloth room feels like a relief. It works for me.

Lighting in Poser is not a problem for me. A look through my gallery here and (strangely, much of my better work) at Renderotica should show that. It's clothes! Or rather... dynamic clothes!

BionicRooster: That's a nice link, thanks. That will save me some time.

What have I learned...the #1 culprit in the problems is the mesh ...double sided, overlays, and all that. The simpler the mesh, the better.

Most of the tuts and stuff I've read only use 20 frames, some even less. It appears that is enough.
The sim does not correlate to how much time it takes to get into an actual human configuration and have your pajamas fall correctly around your body....unless you;re doing an animation. In the case of stills, you just need time for the simulation to do its thing.

I have a very complicate pose rendering right now... the cloth sim is pretty much default. The one thing I see is that the cloth needs to be lighter to fold down at the knee, which you see ... also , some smoothing. but not bad for 1st attempt.

BR's guide to settings is very nice.
Its good to relate them to things we know, more like the manual should be.

After my first attempt, I am now applying settings such as outlined in BRs guide. the results are amazing, other than the fact I keep forgetting to change the hand that is resting against the leg...there is no room for the cloth to land on the leg and collides with the hand.. thus it appears the hand is going through the cloth.

offtopic a little.i hate with a passion that dynamic clothes from DAZ can not be used in any other software. not jsut in poser but anyother osftware.

everyone is using OBJ but no. DAZ has to use something different.and if only they woudl add an OBJ for us. i woudl like to buy the dynamic backpack. but i can not.

Working on the same mesh as DPH, so far with no success. As David said, everything looks great until about the last frame or two of 60. Then the dress collapses. However, when you step back in the animation, it appears that the knees already start to poke through at frame 30, but the preview doesn't show this. Where is the beautifully draped cloth that I saw up to frame 58? I would be quite happy with that. It is not accessible. It is misleading and very frustrating.

One thing I have noticed in working with dynamics... If you are making a true dynamic set, such as a loose gown/night gown such as in Daveso's render. etc.  triangles seem to drape better. This goes against the conforming clothing where quads seem to be the rule. I THINK it may have something to do with the collision or may just allow the cloth to fold easier, not really sure.

Nanette, you can access the lower frame if you are working for a still render by moving the frame slider back to frame 58. Also, if working on a still, after the cloth sim completes you will find a "dynamics" dial in the properties of the dress etc., after going back to the Pose Room, where the cloth draping can be dialed as a morph, letting you "back" up slightly. Try those to tricks and see if that helps, obviously if you are working on an animation it won;t help much, unless you can delete that last few frames, and then have the animation just stop at frame 58...

I don;t really understand WHY the cloth collapses thru the knees unless you have some part of the skirt poking thru the figures skin at the start of the simulation. If you have ANY poke thru when running the sim, even in an unrelated area such as the hip or waist, this seems to confuse poser and allow it to ignore collision detection in other areas.

Thank you Letterworks. I did dial back the simulation, and I was startled to see that when I move the slider back, I get a very different image from what I saw in preview. In preview (while the simulation is calculating), at frame 58, it looks just about perfect. When I go back to frame 58 via the slider, I get knees poking through. I get knees all the way back to about frame 26. I have tried many different combinations of dynamics settings. I had the clothsim running all day in the background while I did other things. We have even doubled the polygons in the skirt, and still the knees poke through. There is no part of the skin that pokes through the skirt at the start.

I can only agree with Robyn, this feature of the program is far from perfect. I don't think Smith Micro has any reason to be complacent.

once a dress becomes "at fault" it tends to get worse. Polies explode, sim time per frame explodes, everything goes. You can fix it, see the image attached. I promised to elaborate on my animation, but up till now no one welcomed it. Interested anyone? We can do your animation too.

This is the short version for you:

1. ensure the dress is okay.

2. ensure it fits at the start.

3. do have ALL THREE sim options checked (see image). Always.

4. don't move faster than the sim permits.

5. be aware of the limitations of cloth room (and know how to handle them, which is beyond this post)

Any poke-through of the figure through the cloth is a killer. Any pokethrough of the cloth through itself is a killer. Although the first few frames might take a while, the sim should speed up rapidly and run at a constant rate after that. Long calculation times per frame indicate verts going wild, and seeking their way out. Pull the plug, abort, the damage is done already.

On my Q6600quad P8, 5 mins per frame is my upper limit. First frames may last twice that long, but thats it. The counter tells you how long the previous frame took, at a zillion decimals precision (one of your earlier questions).

1. Ensure the dress is okay. Some props or conforming clothes turned into props, or just not turned into props, do not behave well in dynamics. They're not clothes but instant rags. The basic test: put your figure in a normal, relaxed pose. Dress her up, and pin the dress to the shoulder (or the pants to the hip) is just two points only. This is what the constrained group is for. Run a lengthy drape at default settings (all options checked). When it doesn't fall off or fall apart, it might do well. No guarantees. Lengthy is: the time it needs so look settled, and then twice the time. personally, i have no expertise yet in fixing bad dresses in Poser.

2. Ensure it fits. Again, figure in a relaxed pose, dressed up. use magnets and morph dials to ensure that you have no pokethroughs of the cloth with itself, and of the figure with the cloth. Now, all vertices of the cloth are on the right side (the outside) of the figure. Then run a lengthy drape. Check again for any pokethroughs. this will avoid a false start.
   This step is similar as #1, but in the first step you had enough just putting two cloth vertices in the constrained group. This time, you need to have all your grouping done as required. You can fix things by regrouping.

3. Check all boxes. Despite everything said in this thread and other ones the tab reads Cloth Room, not Clothes Room. It's meant for draping sheets over tables and cars, sheets being high poly, tables being low poly. The sim does cloth vertex to object poly coliision by default. Clothes are different. Vicky has the highest poly density in your scene, and the clothes will be relatively low-poly. So check Object vertex against cloth poly. Unless the cloth cannot fold at all, you need cloth self-collision too. Now, both partners in the collisions have about the same density (like Vicky and the dress can be about the same density too). Hence, check the middle option poly-to-poly as well.

I can elaborate later on the factors that determine calculation time, but having a lengthy calculation done right is always faster than a fast calculation going wrong ten times.

1. Move gradually and gracefully. You have to realize that after moving the figure from frame say 15 to 16, the dress still is in the 15-position when the sim calculation starts for frame 16. Hence, the figure is poking through the dress by definition, and the sim is about to repair. But it cant fix large areas, and extreme dispositions. A solution is to increase the number of subframes in the sim, its called Steps per frame (default 2, I use 5). But that's quite limited.

2. Cloth room has some limitations. Be aware. I'll name two:

  a) you can't move faster than the cloth permits. The sim is a real world representation and if its hard to do in the real world, the sim will fail you too. You cant do unreal moves in a real world sim. Period. You can change the cloth making, by changing its parameters. 

  b) Cloth needs room to fold, and the ability to do it. When Vicky sits on a chair, and the dress has no folds guaranteed somewhere in between, then the distance should be the collision distance PLUS the collision depth, at the very least. If it has a simple fold, it's twice that much. Within the fold, you might have polies which are too large to make it. Or the angles between two adjescent cloth polies might become larger than your smoothing limit in the renderer. Then the cloth will crumble (if you're lucky) or tend to self-collide and self-pokethrough. Then the crash is about to happen. Armpits and bended knees are famous. This just puts severe limits on your limb bending, and poses. Like in nature, tight leather jeans or velvet gowns limit your movements.

Quote - One thing I have noticed in working with dynamics... If you are making a true dynamic set, such as a loose gown/night gown such as in Daveso's render. etc.  triangles seem to drape better. This goes against the conforming clothing where quads seem to be the rule.

Yes, some of us tested this a few months back and they worked fine - actually better in some instances. I'm just waiting for the chorus of "Sacrilege! Blasphemy! Treason!!"

;o)

Laurie

artbee, I am very interested in your animation!! I just felt from the tone of your post that your were ties up at the moment and would post when your time freed you. THe information you provided in this las post is extremely helpful in itself and any further elaboration and link to the finished animation (if you want) would be greatly appriciated!

Quote - > Quote - One thing I have noticed in working with dynamics... If you are making a true dynamic set, such as a loose gown/night gown such as in Daveso's render. etc.  triangles seem to drape better. This goes against the conforming clothing where quads seem to be the rule.

Yes, some of us tested this a few months back and they worked fine - actually better in some instances. I'm just waiting for the chorus of "Sacrilege! Blasphemy! Treason!!"

;o)

Laurie

More like open-mouth awe. Wow... I thought quads were sacro-sanct in Poser. Live and learn...

Quote - > Quote - One thing I have noticed in working with dynamics... If you are making a true dynamic set, such as a loose gown/night gown such as in Daveso's render. etc.  triangles seem to drape better. This goes against the conforming clothing where quads seem to be the rule.

Yes, some of us tested this a few months back and they worked fine - actually better in some instances. I'm just waiting for the chorus of "Sacrilege! Blasphemy! Treason!!"

;o)

Laurie

Agree about triangles, because of this thread I've just done some test about this and the true is the cloth drapped better and smoother,.

aRtBee, I never use object vertex against cloth poligon or object poligons against cloth poligons, didn't give me good results, I simply use cloth self collision and the default setting for the rest (cloth vertex against object polygon)