Quote - How is it better, ice-boy? I am having issues with hotkeys all being different in 2.5x. The whole point to Blender - what made Blender so fast - was the hotkeys, and now I have to relearn all that? Makes absolutely no sense for them to do that.

Funny, I thought the point of blender was that it is free and open.

I just assumed being hotkey dependent was a symptom of blender's "linux" mentality.  It's the only thing that ever kept me from learning it.  Shortcuts are nice, but if I'm eating or on the phone I'd like to be able to access every thing by mouse as well.  It also makes most blender tutorials look like magic as you can't see the the keyboard gymnastics everything actually takes to accomplish. 

Blender was not born on Linux but on SGI and then ported to Linux. The design of the interface of Blender has no connections with Unix, in fact there is no other tool, from Unix or other OS, that has a similar design. Blender was an internal animation tool for a company named NaN (Not  a Number) and the philosophy around the software was to make it one of the most effecient, fast and powerful modelers.

It has been proven by many indipendent tests that menu-based UIs are not the most efficient ways of handling this kind of interaction. Other softwares, like Maya or ZBrush, in fact add a form of context-sensitive interface elements, like the right-click menu of Maya or the popup menu of ZBrush, that are meant to provide tools pertinent to the job right in the place where the artist is focusing, thus minimizing the shift from the work to the UI.

In the field of post-processing software, like After Effects, or Final Cut Pro, keyboard-heavy use is the norm, as editors and compositors need to manage huge amount of data under very tight deadline. This is also determined by the fact that professionals need to spend many hours in front of a compuiter and mouse-heavy UI are know for causing CTS. Many of the post-processing tools, like After Effects, were born on Mac OS or Windows.

Blender simply pushes that concept to an extreme.

I always thought blender started out in-house on the Amiga.  I just don't think blender would be as actively developed had it not been the standard 3D tool on the linux platform, where it can be improved by the whole community.  Now it has matured to the point where, feature-wise, it can compete with 3D programs originating on the Mac or PC, but many people find that work flow to be too different from what they are used to.

I agree about context menus, it's one of the things that makes Wings so easy to use.  I usually only learn the hotkeys for functions I use the most, and for the others I go to the menu.  I use Sony Vegas which uses keys for the same reason as the programs mentioned, but still offers icons and numerous menus.  I just can't see getting very far with blender without using keys from the beginning, which was always my complaint with it. 

Quote - How is it better, ice-boy? I am having issues with hotkeys all being different in 2.5x. The whole point to Blender - what made Blender so fast - was the hotkeys, and now I have to relearn all that? Makes absolutely no sense for them to do that.

Hey Robyn, I don't know how many hotkeys you use, but in the User Preferences in 2.54 you have several options for setting the keystrokes you want to use.

I've been using 2.45 and then 2.49 for about 2 years now, and like you I'm used to certain hotkeys, e.g., spacebar for the "add" menu, which of course they changed.  I think a lot of changes were made because it seems to me more functions are now available.  Then again, some of them may have been available and I just didn't know where they were.  Now you need to use Shift A to get the "add" menu, and I guess you can't set that back the way you want, but some I have.

For example, in the older versions I set User Preferences to Emulate Numpad because I've been using my laptop more, and always used Alt + or Alt - for zooming in and out.  I went into 2.54's File > User Preferences (Ctrl Alt U), and on the Input tab there's a long list of options available for editing.  If you click on the arrow to the left of 3D View and then 3D View (Global), there are several Zoom, Move, etc. that can be edited.  Since I suffer from acute CTS, I can't use a mouse, so those set up for the MMB are totally useless to me, so I clicked on two of the Zoom buttons and it changed to "Press a key" and then I clicked on Alt + for one of them and Alt - for the other, and now I can still use those older keystrokes if I want.  Of course now I can also use Ctrl and LMB to do the same (which may or may not have been available in older versions), but when you're used to doing something a certain way, why give it up if you can work out how to keep doing it the same way.

Just my 2¢ FWIW.

Thank you, Miss B... haven't been doing anything with the newer version (2.5x) of Blender lately, but it sounds like it is going to be sufficiently customisable to allow dyed-in-the-wool hot-key-ers like me to make the transition without too much pain.

Think it's time to download 2.54 and have a closer look: thank you again for the info about user preferences and hotkey changes.

Much as people revile Blender because of the interface, it was precisely the interface that ultimately got me hooked. I like things that are unconventional - to a point... just could never get used to selecting with the right-mouse button - and if the process is worthwhile and gets me what I want, I'll spend the time to learn it. The Poser material room is largely still a grey area to me even though I play in it a lot, just as Blender has a lot of magic still to be discovered. The cloth room and Blender's own cloth simulator both have exciting possibilities, and then, if I get bored with 3D, there's always SQL and php.

Isn't life grand??!? :biggrin:

. . . and X/HTML & CSS.  Life is definitely grand when you can find something else to fill in your time when 3D isn't on your plate.  ~grin~

Quote - . . . and then, if I get bored with 3D, there's always SQL and php. Isn't life grand??!? :biggrin:

Quote - Blender was not born on Linux but on SGI and then ported to Linux. The design of the interface of Blender has no connections with Unix, in fact there is no other tool, from Unix or other OS, that has a similar design. Blender was an internal animation tool for a company named NaN (Not  a Number) and the philosophy around the software was to make it one of the most effecient, fast and powerful modelers.

It has been proven by many indipendent tests that menu-based UIs are not the most efficient ways of handling this kind of interaction. Other softwares, like Maya or ZBrush, in fact add a form of context-sensitive interface elements, like the right-click menu of Maya or the popup menu of ZBrush, that are meant to provide tools pertinent to the job right in the place where the artist is focusing, thus minimizing the shift from the work to the UI.

In the field of post-processing software, like After Effects, or Final Cut Pro, keyboard-heavy use is the norm, as editors and compositors need to manage huge amount of data under very tight deadline. This is also determined by the fact that professionals need to spend many hours in front of a compuiter and mouse-heavy UI are know for causing CTS. Many of the post-processing tools, like After Effects, were born on Mac OS or Windows.

Blender simply pushes that concept to an extreme.

could you maybe fix the polygroups cuntion in blender? ;) thanks

Pretty sure it was Realsoft 3D that was developed on the Amiga.

Hot keys....don't really get the issues....most high end apps rely on them for speed.

Suffering from CRS....post cheat sheet next to monitor, non-problem solved.

Regular complaints about the existing UI always bemaze me...especially when by ZBrush users...now there's a UI from hell. :biggrin:

Will be nice when Blender is out of beta and the basic functions work properly again though.

Quote - Blender was not born on Linux but on SGI and then ported to Linux. The design of the interface of Blender has no connections with Unix, in fact there is no other tool, from Unix or other OS, that has a similar design.

Linux gave it the option of being open sourced, which led to rapid improvement.  SGI used what, Iris or something?  Whatever it was, it was some kind of *nix.  It seems to me that all flavors of Unix use keyboard input the most of the popular OSes.  Programs originating on the Amiga (Lightwave, Truespace, Cinema 4D etc.) and Mac (Carrara, Poser, etc.) have used the mouse primarily since about the second generation of 3D programs.  Dos and *nix developers liked hotkeys and scripting, as it was consistent with their use of the console to use the OS.  Mac and Amiga developers were always trying to perfect a VR like interface that would mimic traditional sculpting and hand-animating.

Quote - Linux gave it the option of being open sourced, which led to rapid improvement.

The open sourcing of Blender was nothing to do with Linux.
When NaN shut down, a buy out of the code was organised so that the code could be open sourced.
See -> http://www.blender.org/blenderorg/blender-foundation/history/

Linux was an easy platform to port to, because is extremely similar to Unix (similarly for MacOS)
I'm not sure, but ISTR that there where ports for Linux and Macs before the Foundation buy out (it was definitely available for Windows in the NaN days).

The issue with Linux etc was heavily influenced by the fact that Blender uses OpenGL even for drawing the UI. While MS was trying to fight OpenGL with DirectX, OpenGL was infact created by SGI and became the 3D API of choice on Linux. Same for Mac OS.

Quote - > Quote - Linux gave it the option of being open sourced, which led to rapid improvement.

The open sourcing of Blender was nothing to do with Linux.
When NaN shut down, a buy out of the code was organised so that the code could be open sourced.
See -> http://www.blender.org/blenderorg/blender-foundation/history/

Linux was an easy platform to port to, because is extremely similar to Unix (similarly for MacOS)
I'm not sure, but ISTR that there where ports for Linux and Macs before the Foundation buy out (it was definitely available for Windows in the NaN days).

I am aware of the history of OSS, and never said Linux created that movement.  Linux being an OSS alternative to Unix made porting easy, and blender's popularity among Linux users gave it a large enough following to raise the needed money.  I don't see how it could have happened without the gains OSS and Linux made during the time immediately leading up to the decision.  Could any other community, already having dozens of commercial or free/shareware 3D programs, have been bothered to raise the necessary money?       

Pret-a-3D

can you please turn on the polygroups function in Blender 2.55 back on ? thanks ** **

i dont even understand why they turned it of. **
**

The polygroups deal is an old argument that I didn't win :( Campbell, the person in charge for accepting submissions, for some reason prefers to have it off. I'll see if I can put together a quick tutorial on how to modify the exporter to turn on that option by default.

whaaaaaaaait what???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

they dont want to have an option to export OBJ with vertex groups? how is this in the interest of the blender group?

Quote - I'll see if I can put together a quick tutorial on how to modify the exporter to turn on that option by default.

thank you very much for this

Quote - whaaaaaaaait what???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

they dont want to have an option to export OBJ with vertex groups? how is this in the interest of the blender group?

Beats me. I argued about this but it was going nowhere.

Quote - they dont want to have an option to export OBJ with vertex groups?

Strictly speaking the OBJ format only has face groups, although it's easy to write an OBJ file so that it appears to have vertex groups, it would be portable unless the reading app understands the new semantics.

That's wonderful news. But I wonder when this capability will be added to Blender Beta 2.55.

I've always thought utilizing blender and poser's combined capabilities would be a very efficient workflow.

The vertex groups have been supported in 2.5 since the script worked.

 in the first 2.5 version it worked?

Pret-a-3D you wrotte that you could modifiy the exporter to turn on that option by default?

could we maybe make an add on so that we turn that option wia the scripts in blender ?

thanks **
**

Quote - Pret-a-3D you wrotte that you could modifiy the exporter to turn on that option by default?

 

could we maybe make an add on so that we turn that option wia the scripts in blender ?

 

thanks **
**

It's nit clear to me what you meant but it's fairly simple to open the importer/exporter in a text editor and simply change a value. Just didn't have the time to look at that yet

its only a value in a text editor?

wooow thats interesting.

thanks

whait a minute.

polygroups  now work on export?

Let's just hope ever future release of Blender enables the ability to create poser morphs.

i have the build 33478 and polygroups import and export

Are there problems with the Blender site? I don't seem to be able to access it at all.

edit

I'm still using the 2.45 version.  I still am hesitant on the new 2.55 build

2.49b is a very stable version, Jartz... probably the best one for bug fixes and everything...

2.56 i think has only 45 bugs. this is low.

when you get used to the new look its fantastic.

2.56a took care of a critical issue, or so I hear... need to get that one, I think.

I haven't upgraded past 2.54, so maybe I'll take a look at 2.56a and see.  I still have 2.49b installed in any case, but I guess I haven't been using Blender enough in the past few weeks to see any cricital issues in 2.54, so I'm glad you guys and gals are keeping us up-to-date and informed.  

Can I use make Human and Blender to create characters for Poser?

I am using Blender 2.56 Beta version.

Quote - Can I use make Human and Blender to create characters for Poser?

I am using Blender 2.56 Beta version.

Short answer YES but with lots of works.

You can model and group your character but to rig, i.e. make it poseable, you will either need to do that with Poser or DAZ's Figure Set-up Tools.

I just downloaded the latest build and still can't figure how to get it to import an obj file.

Most of the tutorials I see are avi format and I need written tutorials...sigh.

File

Import

Wavefront(.obj)

Main view becomes Explorer type window goto your desired file.

Select the file.

Import options are in the left hand window.

Choose the options you want to include.

Press "Import Obj" button in the upper right hand corner.

Done.

@bob1965:That is what I've been doing but the obj doesn't load for some reason.

I hope I figure it out soon because I want to use it to edit custom morphs. :)

That is strange.

Does this happen with every OBJ you try to import or a specific mesh?

Any of them.

But I may still be doing something wrong, just need to figure out what,,,lol.

Quote - Any of them.

But I may still be doing something wrong, just need to figure out what,,,lol.

No, if you followed the step-by-step I posted you should have no problems.

Since you are let's start eliminating possibilities.

First download the most recent ZIP file appropriate to your OS. (There have been occassional difficulties with the installers)

Let me know when you get that downloaded and unzipped, remember Blender can run from any location so simply unzip somewhere that is convenient for you.

Here is another possibility, BluEcho... just possibly the file actually imorted, but since it's Poser scale, it's so small you can't see it. On your numeric keypad hit the full-stop (or period "."). That will bring what you've imported to full size in your view window.

@RobynsVeil: That worked. :)

Thank you both so much for the help.

Quote - @RobynsVeil: That worked. :)

Thank you both so much for the help.

You're quite welcome BluEcho. Enjoy this new version: it really is brilliant!

and they again removed the polygroups for OBJ import.

this is just crazy. i am desperate.

What are you talking about?

I just imported V4 into 2.56a to do some morphs and the groups are all there.

are you using new builds every week?

because in the beta version from the official site it works. but on a new build from this week it doesnt.