Not sure if this has been talked about yet but received a email from Daz today saying that Victoria 5 was coming soon so went over to the link they had and well not much there.

What do you think?  Here is the link I got in the email.. http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=3124050#3124050&trid=270210066

If you read a post from DAZ_Rand on page 11 looks like it is a morph set for Genesis :( But it also looks like they could be doing a version of Victoria 5 for Poser. :)

But no real word on the Poser version just a brief mention in the post.

From the few pictures I've seen, I haven't been overwhelmed just by the looks of the figure. And to take full advantage of this figure, you will need DS4 some version. What will eventually come out for Poser via their cr2 export - when it happens - won't incorporate any bells-and-whistles that DS4 users enjoy.

So, just another low-poly figure. I think the Poser community can do better... and will.

Had a closer look at the post and it looks like that it will be a stand alone weight mapped figure as he says in his post "V5, like genesis, is exquisitely weight mapped, which means more tasty joint bending goodness... Now with realism!"

They also say "V5 will not "work" in poser like she works in DS4... But you will be able to use Genesis with all it's morphs... Including V5... in Poser very soon."

That last bit gives me hope that they bring her out for us poser users. :)**
**

I believe he's talking about some exporter that will be out for DS4. He also said that when this exporter is out, Genesis won't work the same as in DS - so I assume that it'll load in Poser, but won't scale like in DS. I guess we'll find out if that's the only thing that doesn't work when it comes out.

Quote - From the few pictures I've seen, I haven't been overwhelmed just by the looks of the figure. And to take full advantage of this figure, you will need DS4 some version. What will eventually come out for Poser via their cr2 export - when it happens - won't incorporate any bells-and-whistles that DS4 users enjoy.

So, just another low-poly figure. I think the Poser community can do better... and will.

I hope it to be more than a low poly figure and that it is not just some cheap cr2 export rubbish but will wait and see and hope.

Quote - I believe he's talking about some exporter that will be out for DS4. He also said that when this exporter is out, Genesis won't work the same as in DS - so I assume that it'll load in Poser, but won't scale like in DS. I guess we'll find out if that's the only thing that doesn't work when it comes out.

Ahh k, but yes definitely a case of wait and see but I hold on to the faint hope it will be what I hope it will be.

Why should the scaling be broken? I assume that LoD and the low-poly base won't work since Poser still don't have Catmull-Clark subdivision, but weightmaps and animatable joint centers are available. 

What I would be thinking too and if they be charging money for it which they will they would want it to be something spectacular for both Daz and Poser users.  And that the amount of work they put into the DS version you would hope they would do so for the Poser version when they release it.

They will have to do better than this:

V4 in really not an extreme pose. Really not impressed, guys. Let alone when V4 sits: she's a shocker.

I still find it hard to believe that in these tight economic times that DAZ would pass up the profit-making opportunities they could get from the wider Poser community by creating a new figure with this kind of exclusivity. I. E. Does NOT work in Poser, only DAZ Studio.

Quote - I still find it hard to believe that in these tight economic times that DAZ would pass up the profit-making opportunities they could get from the wider Poser community by creating a new figure with this kind of exclusivity. I. E. Does NOT work in Poser, only DAZ Studio.

Well, this has been discussed pretty much to death is just about any forum that knows who Daz and Millenium figures are. There are all sorts of possible reasons, and really: it's all speculation at this point.

Personally, I see this as an opportunity for the Poser community.

I've been having a play with 3rd-party figures - just writing a Post-240 shader for Mariko by DTG. These new figures offer heaps of new ideas and approaches. We need to get out of the rut and start thinking along new lines. Instead of trying to make a heroic figure (8 1/2 foot) into a shy, tiny demure one, why don't we start with an inherently smaller figure and go from there?

Just a thought.

Agreed.  I have Antonia things in the works :)

Quote - Agreed.  I have Antonia things in the works :)

Good ON you, Netherworks!!! Wow, you're a champion! Well done!!!!

Buying everything you have.... and I already have a lot of your stuff...

If V5/Genesis will only usable in Poser with a new CR2 exporter, it is pretty useless. Everytime you want to add clothing or props or add a morph or add.change a texture you will have to go back to DS4 since they are delivered in DS4 format (DSF,DSB) which Poser cannot handle or need the DS4 autofit tool (V4 clothing)

That means pretty much the end for the Victoria line for me.

I really hope other figures (V4, M4, Antonia, Brad, Alyson and others) will get a stable weightmap so that new items (clothing, morphs, textures) can be developed for them.

If (a big if because in the past it has happened many times that the different DAZ_* contraddicted each other) if DAZ_Rand words are true, it means that DAZ has done a 180 turn w.r.t. to the "DAZ ueber alles" attitude of early august confirming my analysis regarding Studio 4 market penetration (no bad puns intended).

The promo images are not remarkable: when I gave a very cursory look at the Lone Wold product I mistook V5 for Reby Sky for Genesis. After all this mess and fights... the end result is this? yawn.

alexcoppo, now that you mention it, I can see where it would look like Reby Sky :)  I felt the Genesis version looked kind of "Toony" and I noticed the same thing in Lone Wolf.  I'm not sure if that's the lighting at work in the promos or something like that.

Well most of what I had said in my posts is not all true (hides face) V5 is will not be a stand alone as I was hoping which sucks. The idea of having to use a CR2 exporter for poser and having to switch between DS and Poser to build a scene will be horrid..

Seems that Daz had told SM about what they were doing with their Genesis line and that if they want to use her to her full extent then they had to put support in Poser for it but seems that SM only went part way in that regard.  So for full support SM would have to add support in a future patch or Poser 10 / Poser Pro 2013, thats if they do it at all.

So looks like V4 / M4 or lower or any other third party figure for Poser for me at the moment.

Supporting DSF directly from Poser would have not been a smart decision. It would mean that with every tiny change in the format (whenever a new feature or figure comes out) they would have to update Poser and they would always lagging behind.

SM's point of view is to use Poser's file format or industry standards like Collada which cannot be changed without proper procedure. DAZ has decided not to go that way.

Quote - Supporting DSF directly from Poser would have not been a smart decision. It would mean that with every tiny change in the format (whenever a new feature or figure comes out) they would have to update Poser and they would always lagging behind.

SM's point of view is to use Poser's file format or industry standards like Collada which cannot be changed without proper procedure. DAZ has decided not to go that way.

Well put. Bottom line, SM has made wise, appropriate decisions for Poser users.

Victoria 5 and Micheal 5 will be morph packs for Genesis.  DAZ has no plans to make them stand alone figures.

V5 is it's final stages and M5 goes to the testers soon.

Quote - Victoria 5 and Micheal 5 will be morph packs for Genesis.  DAZ has no plans to make them stand alone figures.

V5 is it's final stages and M5 goes to the testers soon.

Is the standalone statement official?

For Genesis yes, but for V5 as well?

I have no idea and not going to say anything more for risk of looking more a fool than I already am lol..

Lets just say wait and see.

Note for moderators: I took two images from DAZ site and put them side by side for comparison. I did reduce significantly dimensions and quality yet, if you feel that there is even the slightest problem with the image, please remove it.

On the left Reby Sky for V4, on the right the presumed V5. I'd say that they look "similar", don't they?

Mmm interesting yeah the similarities between the 2 are so close it is hard to tell. 

Farr may well have been blowing smoke when he said "The developers of several of the mainstream 3D applications are already planning to support the Genesis framework in their applications." 'Several' and 'mainstream' can mean anything, but apparently somebody somewhere may support it someday. The dear Leader had made the decision for you not to join the party, so be happy. The Dear Leader is correct & you will be protected from cultural pollution. Do Keep up the Great Satan thing though, it'll help keep things  warm 'til the next coal shipment from (uhm, the Great Satan) arrives. 

Quote - Why should the scaling be broken?

I don't use DS, so I'm not really sure about this...but several products sold at DAZ carry a warning saying they won't work the same in Poser, because of the way Poser handles scaling.  Has that been fixed with Poser 9?

I asked about this in the RDNA forum for Poser. Apparently it is not fixed.

The problem is that Poser doesn't do single axis scaling well at all, so if you change the length of the legs by scaling on Y axis, they distort when bent.

I was suprised this had not been addressed by SM as it is a long standing compatability issue which should have been easy to fix.

Quote - The problem is that Poser doesn't do single axis scaling well at all, so if you change the length of the legs by scaling on Y axis, they distort when bent.

Thanks.  I had noticed that about Poser.  Amazing they haven't fixed it, if it's easily fixable.

My comments are based on experience with figures created with the older rigging methods. It may be that things work better with weight mapped rigging. I would like to think they scale better. 

Attached Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogVjot24X20

I think something that, in addition to other things I probably don't know about, what prevents SM from directly supporting Genesis in Poser is the patent pending Tri-Ax weightmap per joint system. If poser starts using this, DAZ could, at any point, start charging a fee to SM for every copy of Poser sold.

Yeah, they'd be basically left to DAZ' whim on the situation and would have to be tied to the systems of a competitor, which I really don't think is an optimal or positive scenario in the long run.  I'm sure both companies feel strongly about not being directly tied to the other.  The current direction shows this.

lm

HAHA!

  I have not decided on which approach I favor. If the folks working on re-rigging V4 come up with similar results in terms of bending, muscle flexing etc- then I will espouse "actually not caring." If despite all, Genesis/V5 appears more lifelike- then I wll go with "expressing sublime indifference" (while feeling a deep seated disappointment).

Quote - After the release, I wonder how actually not caring, not using it etc. will compare with the apparently exquisite and addicting pleasure of pronouncing sublime indifference, declaring one's intentions not to use it, etc. Will the real figure ever be as much fun to take on as the bogeywoman? Is 'Occcupy Draper' in the works - actually requiring warm clothing and getting off the couch - or just more virtual latte party kvetch sessions - oh wait, I know that one.

Farr may well have been blowing smoke when he said "The developers of several of the mainstream 3D applications are already planning to support the Genesis framework in their applications." 'Several' and 'mainstream' can mean anything, but apparently somebody somewhere may support it someday. The dear Leader had made the decision for you not to join the party, so be happy. The Dear Leader is correct & you will be protected from cultural pollution. Do Keep up the Great Satan thing though, it'll help keep things  warm 'til the next coal shipment from (uhm, the Great Satan) arrives. 

Quote - > Quote - Victoria 5 and Micheal 5 will be morph packs for Genesis.  DAZ has no plans to make them stand alone figures.

V5 is it's final stages and M5 goes to the testers soon.

 

Is the standalone statement official?

For Genesis yes, but for V5 as well?

AFAIK, the only testing done has been as a morph set for Genesis.  There have been no statements that V5 would be released as an independent figure. 

yes, I think I saw one (a new one just yesterday) saying it would be similar to genesis but not same. (see my copy paste below)

I know iti sounds like they say V5 is morph of genesis, but I don't think that was what they meant. (I bolded the relevant word below) I think she is a separate figure but they are tryingto say genesis and V5 will both work in poser (but not like genesis)

and I think we will probably need to buy DS (I have it anyway) and export to poser, but I could be wrong here.

"

V5 will not "work" in poser like she works in DS4... But you will be able to use Genesis with all it's morphs... Including V5... in Poser very soon. 

Don't be so sure you have "seen" V5 she is crafty and sly and it could all be a trick. 

V5, like genesis, is exquisitely weight mapped, which means more tasty joint bending goodness... Now with realism! "

It is difficult to figure out what DAZ will release for V5

According to the "official" statements now, it will be a morph of Genesis and you can use it in Poser by means of a new CR2 exporter.

If that is the case, it would mean that you have to use DS4 to load the figure, add the morphs, add the clothing, use autofit for V4 clothing, pose it if you want to use Genesis poses and then export it to a CR2 which you can then use to render in Poser. You can use the free DS4 to export, but you will still need to buy autofit to be able to use V4 clothing.

But this is all speculation since nothing has been released yet of the CR2 exporter or V5

For now it does not seem to be something you'd want to use in Poser

well the lastest daz official statement said "

V5, like genesis"

That makes me think it might not actually be a morph of genesis but gensis like.   But anyway they said there will be a way we can use it in poser.  I beleive them.

Esther, you yourself quoted this: "But you will be able to use Genesis with all it's morphs... Including V5...." I.e. V5 falls under the Genesis umbrella.

daz wrote that in a hurry and I don't think it was quite meant to say what it seems to say

"V5 will not "work" in poser like she works in DS4... But you will be able to use Genesis with all it's morphs... Including V5... in Poser very soon. "

I take this to mean you will soon be able to use genesis with all it's moprhs, and V5 in poser

well I could be wrong and it may be just a morph of genesis but the other part of the message said"

V5, like genesis, is exquisitely weight mapped, which means more tasty joint bending goodness... Now with realism! "

I bolded the word like to show you the relevant part of the sentence.

Quote - They will have to do better than this:

V4 in really not an extreme pose. Really not impressed, guys. Let alone when V4 sits: she's a shocker.

I saw when you first posted that 'over there' and wanted to comment, but my last visit ruffled a few feathers.  ;)  Did you apply a canned pose to that V4? Many preset poses cause that sort of problem, I have never had that sort of issue when posing manually. It also appears that the shoulders are more red than the arms, which gives the impression that the edges are extremely defined. I honestly don't think that this proves that V4 doesn't bend well.

You managed to be nice for a whole week over there, good job.  :)  Guess it was silly to think that would last.

SnowS

I think most of us have used V4 enough to know how well (or not) she bends. But I guess it's all relative. She's better at bending than some other figures.

I did find it amusing that I commented over at DAZ regarding a product promo pic that was assumed to include V5, that the arm bend looked icky and a big response basically amounted to, well, it's just a mesh, not bones and muscle. Meanwhile, that's just the sort of thing that weight-mapping was intended to fix. Oh well, I'm not sure those pics were of V5 anyway....

Quote - You managed to be nice for a whole week over there, good job.  :)  Guess it was silly to think that would last.

Actually it only lasted 2 days. I knew it wouldn't last.:lol:

Coldrake

Really? I'm still willing to give them credit for a week.    ;)

I was just going by the first derogatory comment. At any rate, things seem to be back to what passes for "normal" over there.

Coldrake

Don't read too much in the broken comments of the DAZ_* about V5. They are not even capable of provinding a single, coherent story, each one hinting at something different.

This launch is... no, amateurish is not even remotely adequate to describe the thing. It looks the the proverbial monkeys writing Shakespeare works. Instead of a professional presentation with a single version of what can be done and not, and with a complete set of images of the product, with the embargo lift on testers work, there is this mess which defies description (remember what SM did on August 20th?).

Spock's "insufficient data" remark is totally applicable to this situation. Sooner or later next week they will settle on a single story (perhaps) but I do not expect them to provide a Poser compatible stadalone product. I think that in the end they will try  again to shovel down your throat Studio 4 because doing otherwise would amount to admit that they were wrong and managers prefer to die (and sink the firm the work for or own) before admitting errors.

And now, news from the real world: Poser works like a charm, Blender 2.60 is in release candidate stage and Vue 10 prerelease is available to subscription users. Santa came early this year. In the real world...

Well no matter what they do to the V5 figure, just don't include any "male morphs" into it, it's a complete waste of disk space, I might as well wait for the next version of Michael.

Same pose. Different figure.

No, the problem isn't the mesh. Not completely. It's the rigging. Which can be fixed. And is being fixed.

On the other comments: "children, behave yourselves. You're not home where that sort of behaviour is condoned."

RobynsVeil wrote:

Quote - On the other comments: "children, behave yourselves. You're not home where that sort of behaviour is condoned."

You mean like at your favorite site? :lol:

Coldrake

Quote - RobynsVeil wrote: > Quote - On the other comments: "children, behave yourselves. You're not home where that sort of behaviour is condoned."

You mean like at your favorite site? :lol:

Coldrake

Oh, Phantom3D likes my contributions...I've got two matmatic tutorials accessible to users at his site. No one makes childish comments: it's all about the furtherance of our goals. He's the best rigger ever. I'm so grateful to be able to log on there and contribute. V4 re-rigged: this is going to be awesome.

Well, I got a mail from DAZZ
"Come and take a sneek peek at V5."

I went over for that sneek peek and expected to SEE something.
Anything.

But nothing.

Just words, all using the same 26 letters. :-)

Not a single sneek, even less of a peek.
So much for "sneek peeks". LOL.

Next time?
Mail for a sneek peek when you have something to show.

Unbelievable bad manners from Dazzie-Dazz.
And "that", is my objective statement.

Some folks will never drive a Ford. Some will never drive a GMC. Some will never use Poser. Some will never use Daz Studio. It's dumb to argue about such things when arguing won't change minds.

The way DAZ released Genesis was plain stupid.

Now, any V5 that will be sold as use-able in Poser better kick holy ass or it will be ignored.

The release of Genesis made folks who will never use Daz Studio think twice about needing a new Daz character, when before Genesis, DAZ was always looked to as the provider of the next character.

Argue all we want... that is a fact.

V5, if she does work in Poser, better kick ass way over what V4 does just fine.

I won't go off topic, but if SnowSultan and Coldrake would liketo come over to FGPlus and make their comments, I would give them time and space.

SnowSultan did come over, Coldrake has never posted asingle thing on FGPLus.

We make honest comments, if something is wrong we discuss it, others are free to make their own comments.

So, if you want to come over, I will see you there. No more comments from me, as I don't want to derail the thread.

All the best.

LROG