Quote -
Same pose. Different figure.

No, the problem isn't the mesh. Not completely. It's the rigging. Which can be fixed. And is being fixed.

On the other comments: "children, behave yourselves. You're not home where that sort of behaviour is condoned."

The problem is both. The figure is too high poly to be weightmapped properly... and without the subdivision helping smooth the problem areas, this will be a continual problems as the high polys crush in on themselves as they bend. Which is one of the reasons why Genesis has a much less poly count.

Nevermind supporting dsf; SM needs to get on the ball about proper subdivision and scaling. K4 toddler should have been usable in Poser 9.

Miki3 should have been usable in DS4. It didn't happen. Get over over it. Let's move on.

Quote - The problem is both. The figure is too high poly to be weightmapped properly... and without the subdivision helping smooth the problem areas, this will be a continual problems as the high polys crush in on themselves as they bend. Which is one of the reasons why Genesis has a much less poly count.

Nevermind supporting dsf; SM needs to get on the ball about proper subdivision and scaling. K4 toddler should have been usable in Poser 9.

Incorrect. The mesh isn't the problem: the rigging is. As you will soon see.

Quote - > Quote - The problem is both. The figure is too high poly to be weightmapped properly... and without the subdivision helping smooth the problem areas, this will be a continual problems as the high polys crush in on themselves as they bend. Which is one of the reasons why Genesis has a much less poly count.

Nevermind supporting dsf; SM needs to get on the ball about proper subdivision and scaling. K4 toddler should have been usable in Poser 9.

Incorrect. The mesh isn't the problem: the rigging is. As you will soon see.

We sure will. But think while you're waiting... there are reasons newer things are done certain ways... you know like as in "how can we improve this so it bends properly".

Yes Robyn, I partually agree
But ???
The rigging problems are caused by too dense a mesh.
If she had half her Poly's, most rigging problems would not exist.

Every High Poly figure is a nightmare to rig.
And, luckily for us, most figure builders are starting to realise this.

Quality of a figure is a balance.
A good mesh is required, but rigging and texture are far more important then Poly count.

One can do beautifull thing with a Low Poly figure with a good rigging and texture.
A high Poly figure with a bad texture or bad rigging is completely useless.

I'm not waiting... I'm acting. Things are happening. Mark my words. Think while you're waiting: "Poser Pro 2012: preserving the freedom to create our own".

All I know is that I'm sticking to V4.  I took DS4 off of my PC for a reason.  Workarounds do not interest me.  Now if Daz wants to offer a version where the workaround has been predone... maybe I'll be interested.

Male_M3dia - the point is that most of the work HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE with rerigging V4 and contrary to your claims, the big problems ARE resolved. So while you make assertions that it cannot be done, it already is being done.

Vilters - we can talk about what is ideal, but the truth is that a whole whack of folks already own hundreds of dollars of content for V4, including not only clothing but all of the things that make her usable such as good morphsets etc. So it's a worthwhile project, even if we're transitioning to something else.

Quote - Well no matter what they do to the V5 figure, just don't include any "male morphs" into it, it's a complete waste of disk space, I might as well wait for the next version of Michael.

There really won't need to be a V5 Male morph since a user can easily add in any male shape that is, or will be, available for Genesis. It's totally up to the user wether they want to add those shapes in or not.

A re-rigged version of V4 sounds far more appealing at this point than V5.  Considering the investment most of us have put into her over the years, getting more mileage out of an improved V4 would be fantastic!  My wallet weeps over the idea of V5 and rebuilding a content library.

"I won't go off topic, but if SnowSultan and Coldrake would liketo come over to FGPlus and make their comments, I would give them time and space."

Thanks, and although I did appreciate the chance to speak over there, I don't plan on doing so again unless the issue directly involves me.

This was posted in the V5 thread over at DAZ.

POSER SUPPORT
In addition to the other bridge products we have created, we are also offering a path for the new Genesis Figure series to work within Poser. We have developed a plugin for DAZ Studio 4 that will export as much of Genesis as Poser can currently support. Specifically, all versions of DAZ Studio 4 will have this free plugin to export a single-skin-mesh that is weight mapped. Poser also supports the ability to dynamically move joint centers based on morph settings, so that information is also exported, along with any morphs available for Genesis. That means that a user can export a figure from DAZ Studio 4 into a .CR2 file and then load that file into Poser 9 or Poser Pro 2012, and it will bend the same way that it bends in DAZ Studio 4. It can then be posed, animated, and rendered in Poser as well.

However, there are several features of Genesis (and other supporting technology) that Poser does not currently support.
Genesis features not yet supported by Smith Micro are:

• SubD support that allows dynamic smoothing of the model
• Auto-Morph generation, the ability to automatically generate morphs on fitted clothing when a morph on the underlying figure is dialed up
• Smart Content (meta-data) that is used to simplify the content selection and usage experience for the user.
• Dynamic morph loading, on-demand morph loading and the ability to add morphs to the figure after the figure ships as a product.

There are several other technologies that are enabled either by DAZ Studio 4 itself or by the use of the DAZ Studio File (.DSF) format that are not supported by Poser. Until there is a direct .DSF format importer for Poser and inclusion of these other technologies, support for Genesis in Poser will be limited, but still usable by many who would like to use their stunning Genesis characters in a Poser scene.

This shows that DAZ is making an effort to make Genesis/V5 work in Poser. They're not ignoring or deliberately trying to screw Poser users like some would like you to think. It is not DAZ's fault for trying to move ahead with more advanced technology than the fourth generation figures.

Like I said, good luck with Antonia or whatever figure you think is going to give Genesis/V5 a run for her money. I'm not saying Phantom won't do a good job, but support is another thing entirely.

RobynsVeil, do you have any additional things like the shoulder fix on the V4 picture you posted? I am not able to get it to do that at all. It still needs help but it doesn't look like that. Thanks.

Hmm...

SubD: Where were we before SubD?  I really don't find this to be the silver bullet in the ultimate posing solution but it seems to be touted a lot.  If there are enough polygons in the shoulders (for example) and enough density and correct contouring in the areas that fall along the bends, does this not achieve the same thing?  Depending on how low poly the mesh is and the system used to provide the subdivision, this can actually add density and remove detail by over-smoothing then you have to rely on mapping for detail.  To me, this is fine for a game engine.  And yes, I am very familiar with smoothing "cages" in modelers that are driven by subdivision but I find them to be a better tool to flesh out a basic shape and then build upon that.

Auto Morph Generation: Already have several solutions there.  Morphing Clothes, Wardrobe Wizard, Cross-Dresser, etc.  Of course it isn't particularly "automatic" and in some cases requires some kind of modular "add-on" in regards to getting the morphs in there.  Alternatives: Deformers could be created to easily provide approximate morph shapes in clothes (I have done this many times).  As far as auto-morph movement (dial matching) it can rather easily be Python-driven.  In fact the entire Deformer/Auto Fit scenario could be Python-driven.  So, the tools are already there just not tapped into.

Smart Content: Pretty much irrelevant as DS uses a separate database system, which I don't think everyone gives two squats about (some, not all).  However, not only are Poser's metadata files human readable, there is an xmp editor included with Poser.

Dynamic Morph Loading: Hmm... not exactly sure what this means? A morph delivery system?  Can be:  Injection Slot driven, .pmd driven, readscript injected driven, python driven, etc etc.  This is really a non-issue.

Here are some thoughts:

Much of the antiquation of Poser technology has been to try and bring a balance between DS and Poser.  We have had to settle for ignoring much of Poser's technology to reach a common ground by using "Poser 4" features so that things can work in both programs.  If we were to simply allow DS to split off, we can build on Poser's strengths.  It's a catch 22 with content development though.

DAZ is making an effort only as long as the trail leads back to using DS4.  This is not an optimal or desired situation for everyone.

Releasing a V5 stand-alone for Poser will fork content support and is likely why it will not be done.

My personal thoughts is that this is less about giving back to the community or making an effort to support Poser and more about control and a requirement to keep DAZ Studio in the pipeline when using Genesis/V5.  If I am 100% wrong here, then there's no reason not to release a Poser only standalone of V5.

As far as alternative figures go, I am willing to give it my best effort.  I ask myself first: "What can I do?".  Trying and failing is not an issue and shouldn't be.  Not trying is the real issue.

I hope none of this comes across as being combative (and it isn't the intent) but I have to admit that I'm very weary of the whole "it can't be done", "you will fail" kind of rhetoric.  To me, the glass is always half-full.

Kerwyn had some interesting things to say over at DAZ (before the thread was locked...sigh).  He thinks the reason SM isn't getting on board is that DS tech just isn't ready for prime time yet.  There's no documentation, and having worked extensively with it, he thinks it's still a work in progress.  In particular, he's found the "fit-to" stuff problematic, and is not sure it's really going to work.

I can't go beyond the NDA but Anubis, the Troll, the up coming Gorilla and V5 have been tested as moprh sets to the original Genesis.

Unless DAZ does a radical change, the olnly way you will be able to use 5 in Poser is to export using the promised Cr2 exporter.

Have a copy to DS4 on your system.  They have not stated what if any price will be attached to the Cr2 exporter. 

The iconic shapes, Steph4, and Reby Sky are nothing more than morph sets for Genesis.

DAZ is struggling with it's own testers who feel that V5 is lacking.  They rushed Gensis out to beat SMS and now lack a flagship figure like V4 was.

In truth, there have been renders of V5 in DAZ fourms because testers were asked to do them.l

I think these last posts bring a lot of light in the dark.

FIRST Rule of good management : NEVER- EVER rush a release.

NOT a single reason is valid to rush any release, be it an application, a figure or a prop.

If DS4 was thrown out the door to beat SM in some stupid time table?????
What kind of management is THAT ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

If V5 is not ready, so be it.
She is not ready, period.

Now anyone go tell DAZZ to stop sending those sneek peek mails.
There is nothing to sneek, even less to peek.

Just words, all using the same 26 letters :-) Boring :-)

My 2 cents

I think I've hinted at this in other threads, and I'm going to repeat myself here:

I really don't care what you talk about at other sites. Don't hold it against people here. I see a lot of REALLY UNNECESSARY snipes, and they are bordering on personal attacks.  This from people who I KNOW know better than that.  So, knock it off.

Jeni

RobynsVeil wrote:

Quote - Oh, Phantom3D likes my contributions...I've got two matmatic tutorials accessible to users at his site. No one makes childish comments: it's all about the furtherance of our goals. He's the best rigger ever. I'm so grateful to be able to log on there and contribute. V4 re-rigged: this is going to be awesome.

Excellent! I'm glad you found a new favorite site.

Netherworks wrote:

Quote - Much of the antiquation of Poser technology has been to try and bring a balance between DS and Poser.  We have had to settle for ignoring much of Poser's technology to reach a common ground by using "Poser 4" features so that things can work in both programs.

I always thought of it as being the other way around.

Netherworks wrote:

Quote - DAZ is making an effort only as long as the trail leads back to using DS4.  This is not an optimal or desired situation for everyone. My personal thoughts is that this is less about giving back to the community or making an effort to support Poser and more about control and a requirement to keep DAZ Studio in the pipeline when using Genesis/V5.

I'll have to completely disagree. DAZ wanted from the beginning for Poser to have full support for Genesis. DAZ provided a way to get full functionality for Genesis in Poser without using a DAZ Studio pipeline, Smith Micro chose not to use it. I admit Smith Micro chose not to for a legitimate business reason. But to say that DAZ has chosen to only offer support through DAZ Studio is wrong. Without the functionality DAZ offered Smith Micro, Poser simply isn't capable at this point of using Genesis to it's full extent.

Coldrake

My apologies Jeni.

Coldrake

"My personal thoughts is that this is less about giving back to the community or making an effort to support Poser and more about control and a requirement to keep DAZ Studio in the pipeline"

And if indeed that was the case it would be no more "wrong " than what Adobe, Autodesk,Maxon, SideFX et al ,do with every new  program specific feature they introduce that requires you to use their program to access it.
Like them DAZ is running a business ..not a Community service.

" then there's no reason not to release a Poser only standalone of V5."

yes there is.
 it called duplication of effort
( labor costs& tech support)
if a stand alone V5 will have the Same  crippling limitations as the Cr2 plugin exported version of genesis.
Why bother releasing it  separately??
let those who desire it export their own iteration from DS4 with the free plugin that will soon be in all versions of DS4.

let me guess:(not quoting anyone in particular)
"Some people's hardware cant run DS4"

Sorry that  is a personal economic problem  for which Daz is not liable in the same way that SideFX  inc. is  NOT at fault that I can not afford a newer mac to run Their free Houdini apprentice HD.

"I HATE the DS interface and see no reason to be forced to install that CRAP on my system just to get at genesis."

OK, but be an adult and live with your choice to make an Emotional, partisan, tribal hatred, based decision about one particularsoftware program.

or perhaps people with sufficient hardware could play a mind game with themselves and pretend that DS4 is a "character modeling"
application like wings 3D  or Blender.

you open DS4 "build" your genesis "Model" to your liking.
Export to Cr2 and load into poser
just as you would use blender to build yourself a Sofa or table prop etc for poser.

such a mind trick might work if one really tries.

Cheers

Thanks, Coldrake.  I think we're all capable of having a decent discussion without sniping at each other ;)

" yes there is.
* it called duplication of effort*
( labor costs& tech support)
if a stand alone V5 will have the Same  crippling limitations as the Cr2 plugin exported version of genesis.
Why bother releasing it  separately??
let those who desire it export their own iteration from DS4 with the free plugin that will soon be in all versions of DS4."

Well, that's ok if Daz do that, but you are telling people (content creators) work by free for Daz making a V5 Poser version, and if Daz time cost money, the rest of the mortals time cost money too.

If Daz don0t make a Poser V5 stanalone version is because they are in their particular race agaisnt SM and Poser.  Welcome to the fight, DAZ studio vs Poser, a wrong way, but everything idicate that way in my opinion.

Spitballing follows:

The issue of importing Genesis and/or V5 into Poser makes me wonder why Daz feels it needs to compete with Poser at all. 

Daz could make a stand-alone piece of software that strictly handles character generation/combination/morphing/rigging and exporting, complete with sub-ds and everything, for people to use in Poser.  Basically, a Vicky/Mike Generator capable of making infinite possible humanoids fully weight-mapped and textured and ready-to-go as if it was a brand new release of Victoria Version X.

Why worry about the rest of the tools?  Charge a pro amount like they do for Studio Pro, make THAT the flagship software, and start focusing on figures again.  DazStudio could then be a niche piece that people who prefer to use it over poser and the pressure is not on to compete with Poser so much.

Am I making any sense?

Well we can agree to disagree :)

DAZ Studio has zero support for Poser beyond things that were Poser 4 based.  Everything beyond that 1999 standard has forked:

mc6/mt5 extensions not supported, nor the material folder at all.  Therefore, those that design for both platforms have to either produce double-material files or completely ignore mc6/mt5.

No support for Poser Shaders and instead DS has it's own shader system as well as Shader Bricks.

Uses it's own dynamic cloth system.

Sticks with ERC (and in fact uses some Poser 3 ERC tricks.  I can show examples.) instead of encorporating any kind of support for Dependent Parameters.

And this is only a few things.  There are several that add up to a ton of differences between the programs.

DS could have brought in Python support if they wanted to.  It's freely open source and fully integratable.

DAZ chose to instead stick with their own developed or adopted technologies, so it isn't just about Smith Micro not playing ball.  They both, certainly, have a right to do so.

Quote - I'll have to completely disagree. DAZ wanted from the beginning for Poser to have full support for Genesis. DAZ provided a way to get full functionality for Genesis in Poser without using a DAZ Studio pipeline, Smith Micro chose not to use it. I admit Smith Micro chose not to for a legitimate business reason. But to say that DAZ has chosen to only offer support through DAZ Studio is wrong. Without the functionality DAZ offered Smith Micro, Poser simply isn't capable at this point of using Genesis to it's full extent.

 Coldrake

Kind of a case of he said, she said.

Smith Micro said this:

"Many ideas, even some of the interesting ones, come with a consequence, and sometimes those consequences are too dear to accept. This is the case with fully adopting the new Genesis system from Daz. There are some good features in their new system, and those that make sense to us, are supported in a way that would benefit not just Daz, but the whole ecosystem of content developers. Those that do not fit within our strategy of an open system, free from dependencies on technologies that are beyond our control, aren’t in synch with our long term goals for growing Poser. Directly supporting the Genesis system does not meet those needs. However, doing our best to support the features that Genesis can provide to all Poser users is clearly beneficial."

Direct link: http://blog.smithmicro.com/2011/08/11/poser-3d/support-for-3rd-party-character-systems-in-poser/

I'd honestly like to read your source information as well because I haven't been privvy to all this inside knowledge :)

Sorry, but it IS a choice DAZ has made because it's obvious that it's how things are right now.  It is not possible to even look at the Genesis .obj without DS4 being installed... I know as a content creator that all those missing things could be accomplished or approximated within Poser.  I have working experience and product releases that dip into dial control and manipulation, morph target moving via deformers, etc.  It could be automated with a little effort.  Citing things like "Metadata" is reaching for incompatibilities, IMHO (i.e. an excuse).

Poser is not capable of using Genesis, as is.  But the figure could be redefined as a Poser model and supplemented with scripts and things of that nature.  There's nothing stopping DAZ from utilizing Poser as a tool for this, is there?

wolf, no offense but it's also valid to "choose" not to use a software.  I have a situation where not only does DS4 perform unstably but I choose not to deal with it.  I continue to choose to work within DS3 on occasion.  Noone should feel "forced" to use this or that... and I don't ;)  That also goes for folks who choose to use a particular version of Poser or no Poser at all.  Choices are good.

Jen (and everyone), not my intent to fight with anyone over it or make any personal attacks whatsover :)  I'm pretty much done with the thread and really there's no point to arguing about it and I'm just not the position where I want to support Genesis/V5 to "prove" my point so just consider me a ship that passed in the night :D

Have a good weekend everyone and don't sweat the small stuff :)

Joe

"Well, that's ok if Daz do that, but you are telling people (content creators) work by free for Daz making a V5 Poser version, and if Daz time cost money, the rest of the mortals time cost money too."

I dont understand this statement
Anyone ,so inclined, can go and get the CCT for DS and take their chances in the open market creating content for genesis
Anyone ,so inclined can get any3D modeling program like blender etc
and take their chances in the open market creating content for
Antonia, Alyson, Ryan etc.
how  does any of this Morally,legally,financially obligate DAZ inc. to create a poser specific version of V5 or whomever??

"wolf, no offense but it's also valid to "choose" not to use a software.  I have a situation where not only does DS4 perform unstably but I choose not to deal with it."

Hi no offense taken
Example:Many Mac users Choose  not to use windows for a variety of reasons
I have no doubt that the programmers at Autodesk have the skills to to create an OSX version of the popular 3DS Max or Softimage.
but it seems they just dont want to do it....oh well

OK Mr mac guy, Live without 3DSMAX or softimage but Don't infer in ENDLESS threads that Autodesk is somehow doing something bad /wrong by not accommodating your personal situation and choices not to get a windows based PC.
LIVE WITH YOUR CHOICES.

Cheers

"

Slight hint to moderators.

Fact; Genesis is Not Poser compatible
Any future discussion about her should be done in the application forum where she is compatible with.

This is the Poser forum.
Lets talk in the most friendly and constructive way about Poser compatible figures and objects.

When V5 is released, and if she is Poser compatible, then we can talk about her here.

Have a good nights rest and
Happy posering everybody,
Tony

I am aware that Genesis, currently, is not Poser compatible.  However, this discussion is still valid here, and we will not be discouraging discussion on this, period.

Interesting, does that mean that it is ok to go into the DAZ Studio section and keep asking why they don't have the technology to get Miki3 working in Studio?

Genesis is not Poser compatible at the moment, so if V5 is a component of it, then it wont work.

Until it appears, why worry about what will or won't work.

All the best.

LROG

Your argumentative line of reasoning has been noted.  If you don't like a thread, you don't have to open it, read it, or comment on it.  There are several others in this forum.  

Let me rephrase:

If your intent is to work to make it happen, feel free.  No one at DAZ really checks here anymore, but, feel free.  If your intent is simply to be argumentative, we will most likely remove it.  So, the choice is yours.  We leave threads like this open in the spirit of the community, which includes discussion and debate.  If you don't like it, you don't have to be here.

The bitching comes from a fundamental mistake: the assumption that DAZ is a firm provinding content for Poser (application) and Poser related market. It used to be so in the past, is is no more now. DAZ is a firm which produces applications and content which aim at the same market as Poser and Poser content, but they are not Poser related. As the rift is recent, there are still areas of interoperability between Poser and DAZ products but this is inevitably going to dwindle to nothing in the future (and probably quite fast). The divorce that many people predicted for years is here and, as in real divorces, is it full of hate, rage, spite and revenges (often not petty).

When one accepts the above stated fact, DAZ behaviour becomes comprensible and, at the same time, becomes crystal clear that requesting interoperation among the two different product lines is pointless. If you like Poser stick to it. If you like DAZ products stick to them. Just don't pretend that they can or will be able to work together seamlessly.

V5 is yet another morph of Genesis so it cannot exhibit anything beyond what has already been shown by other morph packs. Interestingly, people over DAZ forums drool over renders but they are the result of the combination of the base mesh, morph, textures, shaders and rendering engine. If I take Suzanne (Blender mascot, a monkey) export it into V-Ray or Maxwell Render, use some badass shaders and render, the result will be jawdropping but this says nearly nothing about Suzanne itself.

**Your argumentative line of reasoning has been noted.  If you don't like a thread, you don't have to open it, read it, or comment on it.  There are several others in this forum. **

**
**

I don't think my comment was argumentative, just a comment. What you make of it should make no difference as it was not inflamatory as others have done in t his thread.

All the best.

LROG

I dont understand this statement ...

What I wanted to say is that if DAZ make a figure, can do it not Poser compatible, and only Daz studio figure, that's right, it is their bussines, but the problem with that is that you automatically loose the Poser user base, well, it is a way. But the thing you can't say is when people who use poser ask for that way, is, "well, we  made a not compatible product for you, but you can make compatible ( you make the Daz work) and then, we (daz) can follow earn money with the Poser user base.

You can ,ake V5(genesis) not Poser compatible but please, say it, we have made an only Daz studio figure, if you like it, use it in Daz studio if not, well , your option, we are not going to suppor Poser users. The problem is that DAZ don't speak clearly, and they pretend the content creator "extend" their work to Poser by free.

alexcoppo, your post is the reason I want a like button on the forums, LOL.  I couldn't have said it better myself.  

Quote - make V5(genesis) not Poser compatible but please, say it

They are saying since the beginning even pretending that SmithMicro turns Poser into a Studio clone!

Genesis is not a standalone mesh, it vitally relies upon software support for working. I know it is a demented concept, something that nobody has ever done in the field of 3D graphics, but it is so. Supporting Genesis means gulping who knows how much code from Studio and becoming dependent upon DAZ licensing and royalties, something that SmithMicro is sensibly not even considering.

B.t.w, somebody could point out to me what makes all this Genesis thing so captivating to raise this drug-addict-like need-to-have? over DAZ I didn't see anything that would have enticed me, even if I did not despise them. To me, it all appears as a psychological dependence upon DAZ offers, not a specific, product-motivated, evalutation. If you need to spend some money, head to E-On e-shop and get Vue, so that your naked Vicky (3/4) will have some surroundings for her sword-wielding exercise :biggrin:.

They are saying since the beginning even pretending that SmithMicro turns Poser into a Studio clone!

Yes you are right, I explain  wrong, what I want to say is they assume their responsibility and not try to hide behind SM,... Nothig happes if they want to make an only Daz studio figure, that's right, but facing your decision from a beginning and you save many questions.

Quote - > Quote - make V5(genesis) not Poser compatible but please, say it

They are saying since the beginning even pretending that SmithMicro turns Poser into a Studio clone!

Genesis is not a standalone mesh, it vitally relies upon software support for working. I know it is a demented concept, something that nobody has ever done in the field of 3D graphics, but it is so. Supporting Genesis means gulping who knows how much code from Studio and becoming dependent upon DAZ licensing and royalties, something that SmithMicro is sensibly not even considering.

B.t.w, somebody could point out to me what makes all this Genesis thing so captivating to raise this drug-addict-like need-to-have? over DAZ I didn't see anything that would have enticed me, even if I did not despise them. To me, it all appears as a psychological dependence upon DAZ offers, not a specific, product-motivated, evalutation. If you need to spend some money, head to E-On e-shop and get Vue, so that your naked Vicky (3/4) will have some surroundings for her sword-wielding exercise :biggrin:.

It has nothing to do with DAZ - it has everything to do with availability of items on the platform of your choice - be it with DAZ, Renderosity, RDNA, PoserAddicts or where-ever. A split in this tiny market means that there will be less freebies and products for your platform. Having a Poser compatible Genesis/V5 figure would postpone that split,  but that is not going to happen. And the CR2 export is a non-option for most of the Poser users.

For me that means staying with V4 and M4 until there is enough available for other figures and then add these to my figure mix.

Quote - alexcoppo, your post is the reason I want a like button on the forums, LOL.  I couldn't have said it better myself.  

A Like button would be amazing. And a thanks button. Great ideas!

"Genesis is not a standalone mesh, it vitally relies upon software support for working. I know it is a demented concept, something that nobody has ever done in the field of 3D graphics,"

Hi I beg to differ
what Daz has Done is only a radical Concept to lifelong poser only users who though the old paradigm was eternal
This Awesome Rig
is only truly Functional WITHIN blender

Cinema4D R13's new built in Character rigs are only useful within C4D
And I can show you some amazing Rigs using Autodesk's proprietary "Human IK"
tech that only functions in MAYA.

yes I know we have FBX .Collada for supposed cross platform use of character rigs but honestly the truth of the matter is if you truly want a figure to be its absolute best  you should leverage the internal Structure of the app for which it was created

this is the reality of it.

Cheers  

M4 comes into C4D fine from poser using an importer and works just as it does in poser using an importer.

Poser fusion also works fine with C4D.

Love esther

"M4 comes into C4D fine from poser using an importer and works just as it does in poser using an importer.
Poser fusion also works fine with C4D.
.."

Hi no offense but you say "fine" because you are clearly someone who only renders stills.
I too use the well crafted interposer pro Plugin

But try creating an animation within poser
using posers IK on the feet
bring it in to C4D via IPP and try to make any Adjustment to it in C4D and watch the result.

Create a Dynamic Cloth animation in poser
now tell me how to render the Cloth sim In C4D Via IPP?? or poser fusion.
or a  poser Dynamic hair simulation.

but C4D has a Much better cloth engine than  poser anyway right?
OK take any of your poser Dynamic clothing items and use it on a walking figure in C4D with Maxons cloth engine show us your result.

yes you can conform Clothing items right from your runtime  with IPP just like in poser..GREAT!!

Now Accidently leave C4D modeling tools in polygon Mode and wake the next day after a 9 hour  overnight animation render to find your naked figure has Walked out of his clothes back on Frame 2.

Bring in your animated  poser fusion guy
and Attach a camera target to him and see if it tracks correctly just as it did in poser.

Do a simple poser physics simulation of james knocking over a stack of boxes.
import the save scene into C4D and carefully watch the boxes magically re-stack themselves randomly throughout  the animation.....and the same for vue

My point here?
not to slam poser itself or Roberts Amazing plugin.
In fact there are tedious workarounds for nearly ALL of the Glitches I listed above and I am not complaining.

but it does prove  that ,Like DAZ&Genesis,
you will only get true 100 percent functionalityof features within the program for which they were written  no big Surprise here.

Cheers

Here is the bottom line in my opinion. You are all looking at Gen and V5. You need to think 3 to 5 years out. Up until now Poser could use the latest greatest and most popular characters V3-V4.Now it can't (yet) with Gen Characters and probably will be lacking feature sets that limit it's use in Poser. I liken it to clinging to Beta Max or cassette tapes etc. It is easy to say for a lot of reasons who cares about V5. But think 2-3-5 years from now when V6-V7 is released. Poser will make advancements in Poser 10 and Poser Pro 201x, etc. But if there is no popular content being created that works in the Poser eco-sysytem or the fact that a newbie has to jump thru hoops to make the Daz Characters work or has to buy-get-install a competing software package that is the bigger issue at hand that SM must consider. I got this really great software package and no leading-popular content to use easily in it is not the business model that looks enticing long term to me.

You are right. I only do stills.

Well there will be a new version of poser fusion with poser 9 but I haven't tried it.  I more or less gave up on C4D because it didn't do tooning the way I liked and because the old version C10 doesn't work with my new vue 10 Xstream.

Love esther

Quote - Here is the bottom line in my opinion. You are all looking at Gen and V5. You need to think 3 to 5 years out. Up until now Poser could use the latest greatest and most popular characters V3-V4.Now it can't (yet) with Gen Characters and probably will be lacking feature sets that limit it's use in Poser. I liken it to clinging to Beta Max or cassette tapes etc. It is easy to say for a lot of reasons who cares about V5. But think 2-3-5 years from now when V6-V7 is released. Poser will make advancements in Poser 10 and Poser Pro 201x, etc. But if there is no popular content being created that works in the Poser eco-sysytem or the fact that a newbie has to jump thru hoops to make the Daz Characters work or has to buy-get-install a competing software package that is the bigger issue at hand that SM must consider. I got this really great software package and no leading-popular content to use easily in it is not the business model that looks enticing long term to me.

If V5 does not work in Poser, Poser users will start to use figures which do work in Poser. And content will be developed for those because there is a market for those figures. Those figures (new and old) will evolve with features like weightmapping, dependent parameters and a good shader system. After a year of none-DAZ figures most Poser users will have forgotten about DAZ and its figures.

Most of which I get from DAZ nowadays is props and if those disappear I will go somewhere else.

Quote - > Quote - Here is the bottom line in my opinion. You are all looking at Gen and V5. You need to think 3 to 5 years out. Up until now Poser could use the latest greatest and most popular characters V3-V4.Now it can't (yet) with Gen Characters and probably will be lacking feature sets that limit it's use in Poser. I liken it to clinging to Beta Max or cassette tapes etc. It is easy to say for a lot of reasons who cares about V5. But think 2-3-5 years from now when V6-V7 is released. Poser will make advancements in Poser 10 and Poser Pro 201x, etc. But if there is no popular content being created that works in the Poser eco-sysytem or the fact that a newbie has to jump thru hoops to make the Daz Characters work or has to buy-get-install a competing software package that is the bigger issue at hand that SM must consider. I got this really great software package and no leading-popular content to use easily in it is not the business model that looks enticing long term to me.

If V5 does not work in Poser, Poser users will start to use figures which do work in Poser. And content will be developed for those because there is a market for those figures. Those figures (new and old) will evolve with features like weightmapping, dependent parameters and a good shader system. After a year of none-DAZ figures most Poser users will have forgotten about DAZ and its figures.

Most of which I get from DAZ nowadays is props and if those disappear I will go somewhere else.

Well put. Exactly my thought. Anytime there is a void in a market, there is an opportunity. And right this very minute, those opportunities are being seized - the development of Poser-friendly figures is happening as we speak. The sooner we Poser Community artists shake ourselves from this dependency on one content maker for a figure, the quicker the vendor support will happen and, as wimvdb so eloquently put it: most Poser users will have forgotten about DAZ and its figures after a period of time.

The real tests of whether DAZ is serious about the Genesis stuff ending up properly cross-app would be

first, freely available documentation on all the details

secondly, either incorporation of support into COLLADA, or a proper seperate standard with the possiblility of input from any (qualified/concerned) parties.

And figures that will work better in Poser than any daz figure ever has. No longer the need to worry about if it will work in both apps, I am only concerned with how well it works in  Poser.

Befor we start in with "You'll never get any support" line. If the current vendors and merchants will not support anything but daz, then we need new merchants, not a hard problem to solve.

It is time to let the past go and move on to the future. We the poser community do not NEED daz figures or content. We can and will develop our own figures. They are coming.

cheers.

I think the idea of Genesis is great.  Sort of the IDIC concept from Star Trek.  The idea that the mesh and the software are integrated is bold and creative.  How many different meshes does anyone really need if one mesh can be transformed into just about anything Biped?  I totally get it.  Totally want it...on paper.

The drag is the emotional blackmail.  If you want it, you've got to go to bed with DazStudio and leave behind poser.  Well, the end-results, thus far, haven't really been great enough (that I can see) to make the blackmail all that effective.

Whether or not there will eventually be a new Victoria for Poser Users is a seperate issue.  I imagine, if Daz wants to generate more revenue, they will get around to this after they've tended to their own farm.