there are so many reasons why people get banned.

if you ask to much about complete anatomical meshes on daz forum (gens you know)

banned

people are getting frustrated, because people don't know how to work with the daz software. fully understandable as there is no good pdf manual how you need to work with the daz programs. the beginning stuff is easy and you don't need a manual for how to pose a figure. but once you would start with more novice to master things

Many problems daz could avoid,

by communicate better with the customers, community.

like full manuals ready with the launch of a program, more manuals and info would also fix the problem of unnecessary and abundant false bug reports. Is less useless work for developers and more time they can spend on something new.**
**

There are not enough good references only try and error. How you create your own figures for dazstudio, sculpt, model, rig, animate and render. Where is all that info?

Do you have to search all this in the forum? Where most people also don't know how you do this. That's what people getting frustrated from, poor info how you do it.

3d noobs, newbies would like to do more after a while then only pose and put cloth on a figure but without any good info, tutorials, manuals this is very hard.

interrupt commercial threads, this one i found normal. people shouldn't do this so i feel fine with that block.

but sometimes people sound rude, or negative but they don't mean it in the bad way. They only want to make some things more clear how else it could be.

Stanley

You said    Quote  "I mean it would motivate me to see about getting my privelages back. But then there is the problem of convincing Richard and Adam I'd be a good boy, and they know me far to well "

I don't think you quite understand the concept of a "Forum Team"  All decsions are made only after a team meeting. And some of those meetings can be quite long and drawn out, I can assure, just as in "real life".

No decision is taken without there having been a majority vote.

I detest default settings...No matter where I install, or what I download, I make sure it's resting in a folder that I created in a place that I select, hell, I don't even use "My Documents!" That said, I am not a fan of someone else auto-installing in the default directory. If I cannot do a manual install, it WON'T get installed, there are plenty of outlets that will support genesis besides Daz..

BTW, remind me never to cross blondie...EVER..Either online or off!...She actually has me second guessing some recent posts that I've done on another thread, in another unrelated site! X^D

chohole I am well aware of this. Richard and Adam are just well know online freinds of mine on the forum team. I PM with them quite a bit. I also figured you for a no vote.

When I was on the forum; an off the top of my head figure, I'd say I was posted 5 times helping people for every rant. I had just as many thanks DAZ thread as dambed DAZ threads. But no body remembers those. My thanks DAZ threads died the day they were made. My dambed DAZ threads lasted for weeks. I think the problem is people are judging me for the bad while ignoring the good.

takezo, thanks, that is what this thread is suposed to be about. Not so much dambing DAZ for something that may be a year in the making. But giving explanations at to why this system wouldn't work for you or how you may appreciate it.

And I agree. I have been using content for 7 years. I have a vast collection of content sorted to suit me. How is an automated install system going to work with a nonstandard content folder or nonconglomerate runtime/s?

In case some people have missed it there is an updates forum on the DAZ forum now. That is cool in a couple of was.

1. Looks like there is already an alturnative to the CMS autoupdate in place. Now I hope it remains there. I just stumbled over it last night and I see I have most of the stuff that has been updated :D

2. DAZ is updating installers; even though it is with the new ones which are probably the worst ones DAZ has made so far. Just why would I want a desk top and start menu short cut to the content I just installed :?

Quote - BTW, remind me never to cross blondie...EVER..Either online or off!...She actually has me second guessing some recent posts that I've done on another thread, in another unrelated site! X^D

Nah, I haven't noticed you ragging on and on the way a few people do.  I'm talking about people who make mulitple posts per day, in several threads, to bitch about something they've already bitched about dozens or scores (or maybe even hundreds) of times.  There's one individual, in particular, who would make a dozen or more posts per day, saying the same thing over and over-- as though sheer repetition would somehow magically bring about the result he wanted.

Take the lack of a manual for DS4.  Now, let me assure you that there is no one-- absolutely NO ONE-- who is more pissed off over the lack of a manual for DS4 than I am.  I think it's stupid, I think it sucks, I think it's lame beyond belief.  I've had to waste a ton of time trying to find out things that I should be able to look up in a few seconds in a manual.  (And I'm just as pissed at Pixologic for not doing a "real" manual for ZBrush 4 like it did for ZBrush 2.  The ZB2 manual was great, and a bunch of damn video tutorials and a wiki are NOT an adequate substitute.)  I spend a good portion of every day cursing DAZ up one side and down the other for not providing a manual. 

Well, so-- should I get into a forum and bitch about it several times a day, day after day?  What good would that do?  Would it somehow magically cause a manual to appear out of thin air?  Would it speed up the process of writing a manual? Would it accompish anything at all, except to clutter up the forum and annoy people?

No.  

So-- there is no manual for DS4.  That sucks, but there it is, and so we just have to muck along as best we can. 

"So-- there is no manual for DS4.  That sucks, but there it is, and so we just have to muck along as best we can. "

Yup, no reason to try to motivate DAZ to do anything about that. That's just the way it is so we'll just have to except it and muttle along.

Blondie, there has to be a point between the extreme case you point out and complete apathy. For me that midpoint is explaining DAZ just isn't known for their documentation. DAZ doesn't like having a bad rep they know how to change it ;)

Quote - Yup, no reason to try to motivate DAZ to do anything about that. That's just the way it is so we'll just have to except it and muttle along. Blondie, there has to be a point between the extreme case you point out and complete apathy. For me that midpoint is explaining DAZ just isn't known for their documentation. DAZ doesn't like having a bad rep they know how to change it ;)

Oh, I'm not advocating "apathy" at all.  But with all the complaining that has already been done, DAZ is well aware that failing to produce a manual was a serious mistake-- and if that isn't enough to motivate DAZ to produce one, then endless yapping in the forums won't do it, either.

It's one thing to "remind" DAZ now and then-- but repeatedly asking "Where's the manual?" is another thing entirely.  It's acting like a whiny little kid on a road-trip who asks, every five minutes, "Are we there yet?"  It doesn't make the car go any faster or the journey any shorter; all it does is annoy the hell out of everybody else in the car.  After hours of that-- to say nothing of days-- you want to choke the kid.

A very young child has an excuse for that, because he doesn't understand distances or the time necessary to travel them.  An adult has no excuse for acting like that, and if he does, he's being willfully and deliberately obnoxious-- and deserves to be smacked down for it.

I just looked at my old Carrara 2 manual.  It's 593 pages long, including the index.  Even if you have a team of experienced manual-writers, it takes many months-- probably a year or more-- to produce something like that.  It has to go through several drafts, it has to be tested on people who know nothing about the software and thus can point out confusing parts or missing steps, it has to be revised to correct whatever problems are found, it has to be proofread, etc., etc., etc.

An adult should know that and behave accordingly.  Asking for a status update once every month or two is reasonable.  Yelling "Where's the manual?" every day or so is not.

DAZ is working on doccumentation for DS4.  there is a forum post at the daz forums linking to it.  its a far cry from being done. but its in process.

...sometimes bringing things to light is painful.  But it can also be good. I'd like Daz to be great, however, like the transit commission where I live, I see things that make me question some of the decisions being made. Daz is why I am into 3D CG, I would never have explored the medium if I had to shell out a couple hundred $ or more beforehand to see if I liked it.

However what I once felt was a "freindly" company feels like it is beginning to change.  What was once free will now cost nearly 50USD, yet it still will be in a constant state of Beta development. The Advanced version now lists for almost as much as the standard version of Poser while the new "Pro" version is in the price range of Vue Studio/Poser Pro 2012.

...and the newest version no longer works on older hardware.

Meanwhile the previous version of the Studio application has been pretty much abandoned, even though it still has issues that were supposed to be addressed before the new version was rolled out.

Yes it is a business, however, good business also involves listening to your customer base which I feel didn't happen.

I don't hate Daz or wish them ill, I want them to be a good company which is why sometimes I am critical of moves which I see as "questionable".

...did any of that make sense?

DAZ's site has been down for me that last 24 hours.

I haven't shopped at Daz lately myself. Sometimes you may need something from Daz for purhcase from Rendo to work. Dropped my Monthly premium membership. It use to be 7.95 mo/ but notice now its 29.95. Artzone is gone. Lost all my posted images. Also when you purchase there should be a readme on the page as Rendo has. Think Daz is slowly slitting their own throat..

Quote - I haven't shopped at Daz lately myself. Sometimes you may need something from Daz for purhcase from Rendo to work. Dropped my Monthly premium membership. It use to be 7.95 mo/ but notice now its 29.95. Artzone is gone. Lost all my posted images. Also when you purchase there should be a readme on the page as Rendo has. Think Daz is slowly slitting their own throat..

Platinum club membership, on the monthly schedule, is still at $7.95 per month. THe $29.95 that you mention is the one off payment made when you start a new membership subscription

Yes I did investigate and see. Since I let it lapse for 1 month maybe I'll give them a call and see if I can waive the 29.95..

Have sent them two message and no reply to either one..

You do realise that today is Sunday, and 1st Jan at that, so not likely to be anyone around till Monday at the earliest.

First message sent 11.27...second one 12.27... Wonder if the Help Center is working??

On a Sunday, on a Holiday Weekend
:unsure:

Quote - DAZ is working on doccumentation for DS4.  there is a forum post at the daz forums linking to it.  its a far cry from being done. but its in process.

yeah and the manual will be created by the daz community users :)

LOL

totally wrong

Documentation is being created. The daz forum community have been invited to join a group and possibly add their contribution, is the correct  quote.

The good news is that we are also working on it internally. So with input from the community experts and our internal team, we can get it done a lot faster.

Quote - The good news is that we are also working on it internally. So with input from the community experts and our internal team, we can get it done a lot faster.

This, IMHO, is actually a very sound idea - often the people creating the software really aren't the best people to have writting the manual. Plus, the heavy users typically know more about how to use the software than the people who make it (unless they also use it a great deal).

Got to admit though, no matter what DAZ does, people will find something to pick at. The last few months on the forums have been very unpleasant with all the complaining, whining, DAZ bashing, and fighting. Either it's a really sad view of the 3D hobbiest micro culture, or a prime example of how the vocal minority can ruin things for the silent majority (I hope it's the latter).

The rest of my post should be read with a soft, and somewhat sad tone, and should in no way be considered a personal attack, but rather an attenpt to reach out to someone.

Manley, I know you have made a lot of positive contributions to the Carrara Community, and it did make me sad when you got banned from DAZ (nobody told me - it was obvious you were gone). But my sadness was not from your being banned, it was because I knew from your increasingly disruptive behaviour you would have to be banned.  You had gone out of control, that was why I was sad. As mentioned above, you were making completely OT posts in threads with your crusade against DAZ, and completely derailing the threads. I'm only pointing this out hoping that maybe you will take a step back, and look at things objectively, and realize how disruptive you had become. Your contributions were valuable, but your disruptions for several weeks before you were banned really overshadowed your contributions. Of course this is just my opinion, and probably no worth a hill of beans.

Flame on.......

There was something I really loved doing. I loved running the dynamic clothing sims in studio and sending them to carrara for staging. At about the same time we got an update to DS3A, C8.1, and the release of studio 4. Hasn't worked since, to date I have yet been able to find out why it doesn't work any more. No help from DAZ other then the explanation that collada was broke in DS4. Which had nothing to do with my problem. I was quite worked up about it, still get a bit aggrivated just thinking about it.

May never be able to do this again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt_j_TvITD8&list=UUdhRDgjpBQsflNDs3TBV6bQ&index=14&feature=plpp_video

Yes I was hot. yes I was obsessing over it.

But I think I may have worked out an amicable way to be back on the DAZ forum. I'll just post my rants here :lol:

Manley - Thanks, I remember that, it explains a lot. I used to do basically the same with Poser/Transposer/Carrara. I haven't done much with dynamic cloth since Transposer went away. I just decided to wait for cloth in Carrara (though I have played a bit with it in DS - work much better than Poser dynamic cloth). It's been a loooooooooong wait!!

I don't think the staff at DAZ understand how frustrating the long renders in DS are for Carrara users (true for Poser as well). So many things in DS just aren't as easy as in Carrara (lighting and materials come to mind).

This probably won't help your frustration much, but I've worked in various areas of IT for the last 25 years, and this type of senario is actually quite common. Software A is updated, and it breaks the integration with software B. What is amazing is how often this happens when the two programs come from the same company. Were not talking about software in the DS/Carrara price range either. I've seen this with software that cost $5,000 to $10,000 per license. In fact, I got a call from a friend today that just had a $4,000 software package stop working with the change in the year (GPS post processing software for surveying). The company's response ..... "You need to buy a new license." Now hows that for good customer service!

I guess my point here is that though DAZ does do things a bit oddly at times, and they are definitely extremely good at breaking, and poor at fixing the compatibility between their software packages (honestly, I'd have to say they are one of the "best" at it I've seen, I really don't think they understand it isn't good for business). But, they are not alone. There are other companies that charge a small fortune for their software, and you would expect to have full compatibility when they "give" you updates, but fall well short of the mark. In fact, most IT people hate software upgrades because most of the time a software upgrade means hours, days, sometimes weeks fixing what the upgrade broke.

I ususally keep a copy of all versions of all my software for this very reason. Then if an upgrade breakes something, I can at least try to fix it by installing the previous version. I'm also very slow to upgrade, I'd rather know all the possible issues from others experiences, and not from my own (keeps my stress levels much lower). In fact, if an upgrade doesn't offer a must have feature, or fix a problem I've experienced, I usually don't upgrade. The old saying "If it ain't broke don't fix it!" is definitely a good guideline to live by when working with computers.

Again, I know none of this helps your situation now, but if C 8.5 fixes the DS to Carrara issue, it might be good food for thought going forward. Wendy (WendyLovesCats) still uses your workflow, if you haven't already, you might send her a PM and ask how she is doing it (my guess is the she is using the versions that worked for you). If you've tried reinstalling the versions that worked well together and had no luck, you might thry a registry/left behind program bits and pieces cleaner. I can't remember any of the good ones off hand, but if you feel up to trying it out, let me know and I'll get a couple names for you.

Quote - The good news is that we are also working on it internally. So with input from the community experts and our internal team, we can get it done a lot faster.

what about good full tutorials (video vs pdf)

that explain all steps for a scene

• the idea

• the model proces character vs clothes, conformed vs dynamic

• sculpting (zbrush)

• the rig & weight paint

• the animation proces

• the lightning & rendering

that 's what you have to teach people. not how you pose and put clothes on character. (people aren't dumb)

Quote - > Quote - The good news is that we are also working on it internally. So with input from the community experts and our internal team, we can get it done a lot faster.

what about good full tutorials (video vs pdf)

that explain all steps for a scene

• the idea

• the model proces character vs clothes, conformed vs dynamic

• sculpting (zbrush)

• the rig & weight paint

• the animation proces

• the lightning & rendering

that 's what you have to teach people. not how you pose and put clothes on character. (people aren't dumb)

 

Yes, I agree, these are needed. In fact the team (production and documentation) here at DAZ 3D Met for hours yesterday to outline and begin the process of fully documenting all of these processes.   As these are not easy processes it will take a bit of time, but it is being worked on.

I have a bad experience with similar system that has been around before Daz, that is Vue has to synchronise to Cornucopia3d store every time I start Vue. It takes a frustrating long time to synchronous and it refuses to remember my password. Vue is a great program F**KED up by it's store synchronising system. It just pisses me off to think about it, that I have to go through the same B.S. everytime I have to use Vue. It's a frustrating and depressing experience that takes my love out of Vue. I really hope Daz is not going down that track too.

I truly hate intrusive software protection schemes. They do "keep the honest people honest" (most of the time), but also make things difficult for the honest users, while they are only a minor temporary inconvenience for those that don't pay for software.

Serial numbers, like DAZ does now, I prefer over any other schemes. They keep the vast majority of the "honest people honest", and make installing and using your software a much more pleasant experience!

I wonder how many users, and potential users of Vue have been lost due to e-ons protection schemes, and Cornucopia3D's painfully difficult web store. DAZ and Rendo are sooo much better to buy from.

...E-On's and Cornucopia's practicies are why I stopped pursuing Vue and still use Bryce and Carrara for terrain generation. As I have an older sytem it is imperitive that I work offline to conserve processing and memory resources.