I really don't know what is up at DAZ. The latest version of studio is out DAZStudio_4.0.3.36 In the announcement it says you have to have CMS installed and running to load the "make art" scenes in this build.

Bull Shirt

Those scenes load just fine with CMS uninstalled. Oh they don't load perfect, you actaull have to select the clothes piece by piece and click "fit to".

Come on DAZ don't try to feed me BS to get me to run CMS. Ain't happening.

I heard about CM...Good to hear you don't need it. I requested my money back for Daz4 and everything else I had purchased for it. Staying with Daz3 and Poser 2012

This is the sort of thing that makes me distrust CMS and anything DAZ has to say about it. If some one at DAZ says emphatically that you have to have CMS running to load these scenes, then I find out that isn't true, why should I beleieve some one from DAZ when they say CMS isn't a DRM?

CMS some kind of DRM system? a spoof to run in to your runtime and checking for warxz?

you can run studio fine, without CMS.

no problem

The information regarding needing the CMS installed is to allow the newer users who don't understand or know the tools, have the ability to see results quickly. If we said to everyone that the CMS is not needed, then someone new would get lost trying to run the RTR scenes.

Can you use it without? Sure, is it perfect without? No. Thus the recomendation to have it running. Remember we are messaging to those with not as much experience as you guys. And I don't think that is a bad thing (My opinion).

What does one click and render teach anyone? Aside from what is possable.

It doesn't teach them how to navigate to the content used.

It doesn't teach them how to clothe the figures, fit to the clothes, how to use autofit, apply new textures, or pose the figure.

It doesn't teach them how to set up the back ground, lights, render settings.

It teaches nothing.

It doesn't sound like a recommendation, when asked people were told CMS had to be running for the scenes to load right. I put forth the scenes load just fine with out it. It just seems wrong to tell this to experianced studio uses that had already said they don't have CMS installed.

Understood, your opinion is just that. Some people want to open a free software package and quickly find out just what you can do with it. In a few minutes see results. If they like it they may continue. If they just can't get any results (which is the case for many users) they won't become customers.

We are looking for many ways to help people see what is possible in DAZ Studio. The RTR scenes is one way. The tutorials like Fiery Genesis and the Dragon Slayer videos help as well. Also the presets are a good way to see what can be done with cameras, lights and poses.

All these are small tools to help someone get started. We should not shoot down efforts to help new people. Stan, you are a good help to many getting started in Carrara, These are tools to help people get into DS. Not a fix all end all, just another tool.

But this wont change the problems they may have. If any thing it seems it would frustrate them even more. They see what can be done with one click, then expect everything to work that way. This doesn't eleviate the problems of finding, loading, or installing content.

Take for instence some one new sees the figures clothes and wants to make clothes, they are reall interested in doing it till they find out what is involved. Same here, they see that neat picture and want to do it, but once they start trying to stage their own scene, we are right back to the same problems newbies have had right along.

It's been my opinion that the best way to help newbies is not to do more for them, but to provide them with better documentation and tutroials.

I beta test games. Something common in games is the interface walk through. The game has a built in walk through of it's interface and set up. One for studio that just walked a person through step by step on how to navagate the content folder, load and clothe a figure, add hair and pose. Would go much further to helping newbies then some load and shoot make art scene.

You know all this will do is create a market for preset scenes, and personally I think there is enough Poser clone art already. You know it wont surprise me in the least if bundles don't start coming with preset scenes using the items in the bundle.

Why teach a man to fish when your busness is selling fish and chips.

Sorry but I think thats a bit of a narrow minded attitude. There are lots of video tutorials on how to do things in DS and some documentation seems to finally be on its way. These scenes are designed to show what can be done. Anyone at all interested is going to pick the scenes apart and find out how they are done.

I dont really see why this is going to create a market for preset scenes. There have already been these, and I've not seen an influx of them. I got V4 in such a bundle; the Victoria 4 Demoness Bundle back in 2007, it included a scene already set up. So it started along time ago but doesn't seem to have become a trend.

I agree with you on the poser clone thing though, but perhaps you should direct your critism at the numerous venders or market places who sell products that use the same base over and over, styles and designs that hardly vary from one product to another.

I agree. I don't see anything wrong with providing preset scenes, in fact I think it's a great idea. New users see promotional renders for DS or Poser and then open the application and see a figure standing in empty space and wonder "how do i get from this to those really cool pictures?". preset scenes are a way that new users can see their own computer generate decent quality renders, and by looking around the preset scene they can see how things are set up, and try altering things like poses and camera angles. That way they gradually learn, rather than being thrown in at the deep end.

Quote - It's been my opinion that the best way to help newbies is not to do more for them, but to provide them with better documentation and tutroials.

that 's the best way for newbies info, information, complete manuals.

it looks like it's some closed PA club house at daz3d.

only a few get the info how to model and create content.

most of the info is hidden, don't teech your custormers to much.

or we don't have any sails anymore.

if these are the perspectives of daz vs poser world.

'm out of 3d here.

teach people real 3d, or don't!

Quote - I agree. I don't see anything wrong with providing preset scenes, in fact I think it's a great idea. New users see promotional renders for DS or Poser and then open the application and see a figure standing in empty space and wonder "how do i get from this to those really cool pictures?". preset scenes are a way that new users can see their own computer generate decent quality renders, and by looking around the preset scene they can see how things are set up, and try altering things like poses and camera angles. That way they gradually learn, rather than being thrown in at the deep end.

cool, but the use of preset scenes will quickly dull.

what if the new users would a) model it's own presets?

it's own clothes, rig his own character? animate his own character?

where is all the info and manual about that subject?

there is not 1 good tutorial in daz vs poser world, that explain all these steps from model to rig to morph to animate to render. not 1!

I'm not a PA and I don't have access to anything other than any other user has access to. I don't see any evidence whatsoever for people withholding information at DAZ. I agree that there needs to be a manual. I had not really used DS until version DS4 appeared, having previously been a Poser only user.

Recently I have been experimenting with geo-grafting with a view to making an earless head modification, and it is working well. I have learned how to do this by reading the relevant threads in the forum and trying things out for myself. I have found regular users, PAs and staff all only too pleased to explain things.

Stanley

the rtr scenes are not quite what you think. I just tried the dragon one. It seems to be a sequence of powerloader steps. You can follow each item being loaded, textured, clothed, posed and positioned.

on my slow machine it took about 2 minutes, its effectively a mini movie.

The render is actually a second click

I checked the render settings and changed them down to 600x300, it still took about 15 minutes. 

It is initially set at 720HD! Thats a good thing though, I think a long render is a good introduction to rendering for new users.

"I don't see any evidence whatsoever for people withholding information at DAZ. "

:lol: I love a good joke in the morning.

I can set and watch it all load, still no clue where it is loading from. I see textures being applied, but not how they are applied or where they are applied from. I see the figure posing, not how the pose was applied or from where. And so on.

If these preload scenes where to made to be educational; as with my game example, studio would walk people through how what is loaded from where, how the textures are applied, how the figure is posed, ect. As there are all they show is what can be done, not how it was done. Looking at a painting doesn't tell me how it was painted, what brushes where used, or what paints where used.

Now if these scenes where included with/as part of a video tutorial that would be different. The scene would be the end result with a clear; for some, tutorial of how to get there.

I personally have difficulties keeping up with video tutorials, they loose and confuse me fast, but that is just a me thing.

Now I will agree that reverce engeniring is a good learning tool, but you can't actually reverce engeneer these scenes. Unlike taking a car mesh in to Hex and stripping it apart to see how it was built. Taking this scene appart does not show you where any of the eliments came from, or how poses or textures were applied.

Come on folks do we read different forums or what? How often have you read a post from a newbei asking "how do I stage a scene"? These scenes do nothing to solve the problems newbies are having. What is the biggest problem newbies have? Finding and using content, finding and applying poses and textures, and knowing the difference between clothes and mats. These are the top most posted newbie questions. And I think even DAZ will have to admit that CMS has done little more then complicate the matter.

I forget whom's screen cap of their smart content tab I saw, but my first thought was "that is suposed to help????". :lol:

Let me expand on my point. If while the scene was loading the studio interface grayed and the tabs and steps in browsing to the content were highlighted, and the steps for appling the poses and shaders were done the same way, then some one might actually learn something from these scenes.

Like I said this type of tutorial has been common practice in games for years now.

Quote - I can set and watch it all load, still no clue where it is loading from. I see textures being applied, but not how they are applied or where they are applied from. I see the figure posing, not how the pose was applied or from where. And so on.

If these preload scenes where to made to be educational; as with my game example, studio would walk people through how what is loaded from where, how the textures are applied, how the figure is posed, ect. As there are all they show is what can be done, not how it was done. Looking at a painting doesn't tell me how it was painted, what brushes where used, or what paints where used.

Now if these scenes where included with/as part of a video tutorial that would be different. The scene would be the end result with a clear; for some, tutorial of how to get there.

I personally have difficulties keeping up with video tutorials, they loose and confuse me fast, but that is just a me thing.

What is the biggest problem newbies have? Finding and using content, finding and applying poses and textures, and knowing the difference between clothes and mats. These are the top most posted newbie questions. And I think even DAZ will have to admit that CMS has done little more then complicate the matter.

I forget whom's screen cap of their smart content tab I saw, but my first thought was "that is suposed to help????". :lol:

Let me expand on my point. If while the scene was loading the studio interface grayed and the tabs and steps in browsing to the content were highlighted, and the steps for appling the poses and shaders were done the same way, then some one might actually learn something from these scenes.

Stan:

I think you are not seeing the big picture. If the CMS is installed and you are a new user following the tutorials like this one:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FTyI2zYHppA

You could follow step by step seeing where the presets are located, materials, clothing, everything. Nothing is hidden or kept from the user. And the RTR scene is a step off that tutorial. If someone wants to see the "How Too" they can follow a tutorial, not just see the RTR Scene.

As you have chosen not to use the CMS, and don't see the same info as a new user would I can expect you would have a different user experience. But a new user is given these "Sets" of tools (tutorials, RTR scenes) examples as a way to learn. Because you don't learn that way, please don't generalize and say we are not doing it right. That is an opinion. We at DAZ are working very hard to help the new users be successful. Is that a problem for existing users? Maybe, but we need new users...many more new users to support this business.

These are business choices we are making. It may not agree with everyone but we believe it will help many more come to enjoy these tools.

Once again, I ask to not tell us everything we are doing wrong, but tell us how you can see us improving to do it better. Constructive criticism is much better than negative rants all the time.

Help us, by giving us suggestions to improve, not how we did it all wrong. I don't think that's asking too much. But just my opinion.

"As you have chosen not to use the CMS, and don't see the same info as a new user would I can expect you would have a different user experience. But a new user is given these "Sets" of tools (tutorials, RTR scenes) examples as a way to learn. "

If this is the case, my bad, sorry. I did say "Now if these scenes where included with/as part of a video tutorial that would be different."

"Once again, I ask to not tell us everything we are doing wrong, but tell us how you can see us improving to do it better."

Maybe I should have led with my last paragaph where it offered up a suggestion on how to imporve the tutorial experiance for the new user. Seriously, if DAZ really wants new users in to studio as fast and as easily as possible, DAZ should look at how the video game industry does it. They have been doing just that for years. ;)

I like DS4, after the Darkside interface was avaiable. Hated that garrish Hollywood interface and pissed it off straight away. Kids like it, I don't.

I don't use the CMS feature but can see it's potetial for finding things quickly. Hopefully Daz is honest about the CMS not spying on us.

So far CMS hasn't been necessary for me. Not a tool I need. Hope it stays that way. ;)

Let the people that install it and use it, worry about what it's up to :lol:

Funny thing is just what would it report back to DAZ, I have the installed content a few genesis morphs and a boat load of free dynamic clothing :lol:

Oh wait, the dynamic clothing doesn't have microdata{?}.