Quote - > Quote - There's a project team. Unless a person had an actual hand in developing the figure (rigging, morph) then they are not part of the development team. If those two people walked way from finishing the figure, you would still have a project team, but no developers. I'm giving credit where credit is due.

either way you wern't involved in either ;)

 

lmao

Yes, and I was gracious enough to give the proper people the right amount of courtesy and respect. :)

Stick to productive discussion and stop the ridiculous personal slinging or this will be another thread having to be locked. If you have nothing productive and constructive to add to this discussion then please do not post. I'm not directing this to any one person but those that are trying to stir up and make this a negative thread are well aware and if this continues, then warnings will be issued to those individuals as I'm getting a little aggravated at having to lock threads because of the disruption of a few so it will not be tolerated any longer. It appears to be the same individuals lately in every thread we've had to lock and that isn't fair to those that want to have an adult discussion.

Regards,

Stacey

Community Manager

etided.. apparently the mods are seeing the same pattern I was about to bring up.. I'll hold my peace.. thanks Stacey G

Anyways... I think as long as enough people are buying items for her, she'll get supported.  Look at right now, there's nothing that's as popular or as widely supported as V4 for us poser users.  Therefore, we are a market that'll be supported as long as we keep paying for v4 items.

Quote - i have too many character sets and conforming hair for V4 to ever giver her up now.

now i'm wondering how many character sets are using the same merchant resource ?

i pickedup the Teen Ashley for V4 last week, turns out the texture base is from the V4 Alpha resource.

I think V4 still has a lot of life in her yet. That being said, I wanted to respond to this comment specifically. It is true that there are a lot of character sets using the same merchant resources. I was browsing the merchant resources for V4 over the holidays looking to pick up some to add to my Texture Work Library and was astonished to find that several V4 Merchant Resources that I have purchased and are in my Work Library are no longer available in the store. I can tick off at least three packages that I bought that are no longer in the store. This is a shame because this makes the available bases to work with much smaller and therefore the variety for character creation has gone down.

I hope that everyone takes my post to heart because this pattern will not continue as it's not fair to those that really have something productive they want to have a discussion on and the perception it gives to those just reading or new members is a very negative one, I won't have that any longer.

Thank you for your cooperation and understanding.

Quote -  I was browsing the merchant resources for V4 over the holidays looking to pick up some to add to my Texture Work Library and was astonished to find that several V4 Merchant Resources that I have purchased and are in my Work Library are no longer available in the store. I can tick off at least three packages that I bought that are no longer in the store. This is a shame because this makes the available bases to work with much smaller and therefore the variety for character creation has gone down.

IMO renderosity should either send items that don't sell into the freebie area or create a bargain basement section.  No sales or coupons good there, but everything is $.99 if the merchant wants to keep it there.

The worst thread-locking exchanges seem to be the same handful of people having private conversations with each other, endlessly quoting each other, endlessly trying to show why the other guy's statement is wrong. This is like the 4th or 5th thread to go down that road. Like they say in the bars, take it outside before they kick us all out and lock the door.

 As for the topic of this thread, I'm not worried about any pending execution for Vicky, or think it has been temporarily stayed. Even if her creators decide to drop her completely and stop allowing their vendors to sell stuff for her (very unlikely), that is only one marketplace. V4 users would simply shift ground, which would hurt that marketplace and help others.

V4 is still going strong here at Rendo and RDNA and other places. Alternatives like Antonia and Anastasia are very welcome on the scene by many of us. We need to look at different options, different approaches or we stagnate. But V4 is too well-entrenched, we have too much invested in her, for her to just go way. 

This makes me wonder if V4 is the last great Poser figure.  Has the multitude of alternate figures divided the user base so much that no other single figure will ever be as widely used as V4 is now?!

....stay of execution..... I would say YES :D

Quote -
IMO renderosity should either send items that don't sell into the freebie area or create a bargain basement section.  No sales or coupons good there, but everything is $.99 if the merchant wants to keep it there.

I too wish they would set up a Bargain Basement.  I've had items on my WL that were nice, but a bit too dear, and they just end up vanishing.  It's not like there's a lot of inventory cost...

Quote - This makes me wonder if V4 is the last great Poser figure.  Has the multitude of alternate figures divided the user base so much that no other single figure will ever be as widely used as V4 is now?!

Could be, but I wonder if she has some life left in her yet; if somone writes a DAZscript to bring weight-mapped V4 into Studio, that would change the whole equation.  I've been able to bring Nerd's WM V4 into Carrara 8 by way of Collada, but there are some issues, possibly due to the JCMs...

Quote - This makes me wonder if V4 is the last great Poser figure.

I think it depends on what you mean by 'last great Poser figure'. If you mean one that is as popular then I think she will probably be the last. However, if you mean good then I think not. I'm sure there will be even better figures than her in the future.

Quote - Has the multitude of alternate figures divided the user base so much that no other single figure will ever be as widely used as V4 is now?!

Personally I don't think having a choice of figures is a bad thing, quite the contrary. This is an exciting time for both users of Poser and DS.

Quote - This makes me wonder if V4 is the last great Poser figure.  Has the multitude of alternate figures divided the user base so much that no other single figure will ever be as widely used as V4 is now?!

Would it be a bad thing if this has happened?  I think not, as it might cause some of the creators to look to other models, create a wider base for their work.  And the end user would be the ultimate winner.

I don't quite understand why having a lot of figures is good for the users because it divides content. We saw this happen with Michael and David and with Stephanie Petite and V4. Perhaps having a lot of figures would create competition to make each figure better, but doesn't it benefit users in the end if most content creators can all basically get behind one popular figure? It's hard for someone to make high-quality content for multiple figures, and the more figures there are, the less likely that person's content will be made for the figure you want to use most.

SnowS

Variety and diversity is a good thing. What appeals to one may not appeal to another. And if some can't be used in your software of choice, well then....... One figure should not be the only option, not at all:)

I didn't say the "g" word.  ;)   It not working in someone's software of choice is a completely different issue, let's just talk about Antonia and Anastasia for example.

Both are human females, both have morphs, both work in Poser. Wouldn't it make much more sense for either the Antonia people to get behind Blackhearted in improving Anstasia more, or for Blackhearted to go to work on making a similar morph for Antonia? I don't understand why having two figures that serve the same purpose is better for the users. What DAZ did with you-know-who did at least solve that problem for users of that figure.

Quote - Variety and diversity is a good thing. What appeals to one may not appeal to another. And if some can't be used in your software of choice, well then....... One figure should not be the only option, not at all:)

Yep, diversity promotes creativity and in our art work this is what many of us are striving for. Say the only figure available was XYZ. She is a lovely character and would make content creators jobs easier but that is not the main objective of artists who want to realise their imagination and/or to make their work to stand out from the crowd. Therefore, different high quality characters will always be a good thing for artists and with the various methods of fitting different clothing to figures it is not such a big deal as it was when I first started out in 3D.

"She is a lovely character and would make content creators jobs easier but that is not the main objective of artists who want to realise their imagination and/or to make their work to stand out from the crowd."

But isn't that why we morph and try to make improvements to figures? Sometimes I think people just need to turn morph dials more often.  ;)  I can certainly understand why we need a variety of figure types, like toon figures, realistic ones, creatures like Nursoda's, etc. Why we need three or four attractive realistic female figures that can't really share content, that continues to elude me.

Your opinion of course but I , personally, definitely see it as a plus and quite frankly I think alot of artists agree that the variety is a good thing.  We don't always have to agree or understand why people feel a certain way but luckily everyone doesn't think the same or the world would be a boring place lol:)

SnowS, more figures, because certain figures will inspire certain clothing types for that figure more than one single figure would.  Steph 4, ho hum.  I have it.   Nuff said.

The "One figure will suit all uses" is less true by far than "One size fits none."

Poser world doesn't seem to have much problem doing clothing for multiple figures, they have a separate listing for multiple figures.  Even DAZ, the MFD is made for quite a few figures, unfortunately, mostly vicky in her iterations, laura and the PTgirl. 

And everything for one figure is also called, "In a rut."

Good points, Precision.  All very true

Quote - SnowS, more figures, because certain figures will inspire certain clothing types for that figure more than one single figure would.  Steph 4, ho hum.  I have it.   Nuff said.

The "One figure will suit all uses" is less true by far than "One size fits none."

Poser world doesn't seem to have much problem doing clothing for multiple figures, they have a separate listing for multiple figures.  Even DAZ, the MFD is made for quite a few figures, unfortunately, mostly vicky in her iterations, laura and the PTgirl. 

And everything for one figure is also called, "In a rut."

Very true.

Anatasia and Antonia have different qualities and stengths. With one figure you are stuck with all the strengths and all the disadvantages of that one figure which morphs cannot help with.

different figures have different character that goes deeper than how many dials you spin.  If the cost of entry for a figure is reasonable enough, people can use whichever figure fits the clothes that they like the best.  

For example. AS made some awesome stuff for v3, then v4 came out and they made some more awesome stuff for v4.  If I want to use their v3 stuff, I can try and convert it to v4 and it might be workable or it might not.  But I can still use it fine on v3 and I do.   

Even if I could make Antonia look basicly like Anastasia they'd still be different figures and working wiht them would still be a different experience both as an end user and a content creator.  

None of that is bad.  The hope is that with more than one figure, content creators wont be forced to work with one and only whether they like it or not.  It gives them options.  Sure v4 may still end up being the most profitable to make for, but creators will see opportunity in under served figures.  Hopefully they will see opportunity in that v4 production has moved more into the lines of variations on already explored themes, whereas they may look at Antonia or Anastasia and see that there isnt for instance a great sci fi set. (Just an example I'm not fully sure what sci fi options are available so its not a comment on any possibly existing set)  Sales requires a need that needs filling.  There is more opportunity in a multitude of figures than there is in the one and only rut that we have been accustomed to for so long.

yep and here is an illustration no morphs just base characters outta the box left to right  Alyson2(base figure for Anastasia) V4 and Antonia all have different strenghths and weakness most realistic Antonia, model like v4, sylph like Alyson  I use them all morphs can change the look and shape to suit what style I need and suits my picture having more charecters mean more work for more vendors its a good thing in my opinion

I haven't put vicky and Antonia in a render together yet, but Wow!  It makes vicky look like something highly idealized.  Thanks.

"Good points, Precision.  All very true"

Heh, I'll have to respectfully disagree with just about everything he said, but as you say, the world would be boring if we all agreed.  ;)

I'm glad you could explain your points, thanks. I still don't get it, and I personally won't have to worry about it as I gradually move from V4 to you-know-who, but I do hope that your figures can do what you need them to do.  :)

SnowS

 Jerr

Time you started a Last Great Poser figure thread!

Quote - This makes me wonder if V4 is the last great Poser figure.  Has the multitude of alternate figures divided the user base so much that no other single figure will ever be as widely used as V4 is now?!

Quote - "Good points, Precision.  All very true"

 

Heh, I'll have to respectfully disagree with just about everything he said, but as you say, the world would be boring if we all agreed.  ;)

I'm glad you could explain your points, thanks. I still don't get it, and I personally won't have to worry about it as I gradually move from V4 to you-know-who, but I do hope that your figures can do what you need them to do.  :)

 

SnowS

I guess it is like saying there is only the need for one type of bread as it fills you up the same or one type of beer as all the others also make you drunk or one type of car because they all get you around etc.

If the only character you use is V4 then it is understandable how you do not understand any other point of view. It's okay just using the one figure and I am not saying it is wrong but some people enjoy using a range of figures. Everyone is correct. Just different people like different things and it is not very fair to impose your choice on other people.

I wish the market was big enough to support more diversity.

Bring your friends into the hobby or use of the programs or whatever you want to call it.

Myself and a number of other vendors are in a predicament where we're not at loss for ideas, but we always have to go for what we think will sell the most, because the market is so small, you can't survive making things that don't sell like crazy. End result it - less alternative content.

Yes, there are also people who do this part time and don;t depend on it for the income, I did that with my first couple of products. What happens on that end of things is issue of time management. If you're working at something 2-3 hours a day, instead of 8-12, it takes more day to make things.... end result is, less alternative content.

As for the figures .... never say never ;)

Let's just talk about figures that are meant to be realistic humans.

(Although a well made figure can be turned into practically anything)

The difference between figures is the topology, the UV-mapping, the rigging, and most important the proportions.

Because Poser had problems with properly scaling bodyparts, it was neigh impossible to really make a figure look completely different from it's default state.

You could morph the head and to a certain extent the body, but you couldn't really make Posette look like V3 or MIKI look like V4 without extensive re-rigging.

Now with the scaling problem solved, a figure making use of this new features can have any proportions you want.

Polygons are just polygons. Like LEGO bricks, they don't care what final shape they are in.

I admit I really, absolutely, totally dislike V4, M4 and K4 for various reasons.

So with V4 being such a dissapointment, I rather decided to rework the 3rd gen meshes to a level that would satisfy me.

(See attached pic) :-)

One of the most important points to me was that I wanted all my figures based on the same mesh. I knew that both I and Poser couldn't create 100% photorealistic humans, so at least the flaws any figure invariably would show would be similar, and thus more easily acceptable.

And even though each figure had to be extensively re-rigged and re-sculpted, they still could share textures, share clothing more easily and also could share morphs.

If, for example, I created a custom expression morph for one figure, all of my figures could use it.

I'm not talking about a few dial spins here and there to get "store bought diversity", I talk about custom morphs and rigs that were all shaped after actual humans as realistically as I could.

But all made using the exact same mesh.

I think I succeeded in making them realistic yet diverse enough that I could put them into the same render without looking boring.

Because mesh topology doesn't matter as long as you start with a figure that has a well thought out, versatile one.

Because final shape doesn't matter, as long as the figure has enough polygons zomove around.

The only thing that mattered were the default proportions dictated by the old Poser 4 to Poser 8 rigging because re-rigging a figure is hard and tedious work so noone wants to do it.

But in this case I had lots of different rigs to start with and it's of course easier to modify a rig that "almost" fits than to rework one that is totally out of whack for what you want.

But those were the "dark" pre Poser 9/PP 2012 days.

Now we can rig a figure in a way that the scaling and thus its ever so important proportions can be completely changed with the turn of a dial.

What took weeks and months of hard work can now be achieved in minutes. And most importantly, you don't need to know how to rig to do it.

Now that's what I call progress.

So no, there is absolutely no reason anymore to support different figures because you like the general shape of one figure better than the other.

Because a single figure now can be truly anything you want.

So instead of dividing our forces with figures only a few people will ever use anyway, it would be much better to rather support a single figure that actually can be anything.

Genesis is not just V5 or M5.

Genesis could be just as well Antonia or Anastasia if you like their shapes better !

Or Posette or Terai Yuki !

Or V3 or David or Maddie or Luke or whatever.

Or anything else you can imagine.

With geografting, you aren't even restricted to human shapes.

Four arms ? Six legs ? A tail ? Real genitals that are part of the mesh ?

Whatever you want, Genesis can do it.

Because polygons don't care what shape they are in.

Genesis took two years to create, a lot of professional talent and I'm sure a lot of money.

Could a Non-DAZ-Genesis figure be created ?

Well, not really.

Technically yes, of course, but it, too, would cost quite a bit of time and money.

And then you still wouldn't have top-vendor support.

The situation for Poser users right now is simply like this:

1. Ignore Genesis and make do with an inferior mesh.

2. Switch over to Studio 4.

3. Lobby for SmithMicro to build the necessary plugins so that Genesis can be run in Poser 9/PP 2012 natively with all the features it has in Studio 4.

Sorry folks, this is not about "liking" a certain figure anymore.

The barbarian hordes are knocking at the gates of Ankh-Morprk.

You could fight them, but you could just as well open the gates, welcome them, and then start to sell them stuff.

Don't get me wrong. I have no dog in this race. I already HAVE my own range of figures I'm quite happy with. I really don't care what figures you use in your renders.

And I'm certainly no DAZ fanboy. V4 and their entourage were a steaming pile of horse manure compared to what DAZ technically could have done to improve the 3rd Gen meshes.

There are figures out there with worse rigging and scaling than V4. But not many.

And even Genesis is not perfect. Far from it.

But what is already there is miles above anything else in the Poserverse.

"Just different people like different things and it is not very fair to impose your choice on other people. "

I never said or implied anything about imposing my choice on anyone, let's not start again.

"If the only character you use is V4 then it is understandable how you do not understand any other point of view."

The reason why I do not understand why you feel the need for multiple female figures because I have always been able to make whatever type of female figure I need using V4's many morphs. I can make an athletic shape like Anastasia, a real-world shape like Antonia, or anything else I need from one figure. It's not that I don't think the alternate figures are any good, it's that I haven't seen any character or shape on any other female figure that couldn't be done with V4 - my opinion only, but that's what I believe.

edit: oh boy, hang on to your hat Joe.  ;)

Quote - I never said or implied anything about imposing my choice on anyone, let's not start again.

Oh boy, I did not mean you personally. I meant in general. I apologise if I was ambiguous. It's too early in the morning for me and I haven't had enough sleep. :crying:

Heh, and I think everyone else is too touchy.  :)  Sorry, I thought you were talking about me because you highlighted two sections of my response, including that I was eventually moving from V4.

Anyway, take care.

Quote - *"*I can make an athletic shape like Anastasia, a real-world shape like Antonia,

Talk's cheap.  Renders don't cost that much.  Let's see your Antonia.

No problem, SnowS. Take care too. 

Thanks for the detailed description Joepublic...  I just really hope we arent spinning our wheels so much that anybody really thinks the majority of the issue is that people dont understand the concept behind genesis.  Its not rocket science.  If this is news to anyone aplogies for speaking out of turn.  

Its a compelling principle... 

Apple I pod/phone/pads are compelling devices.. slick as all get out.. doesnt mean everyone MUST use one.  

I just dont see why some(no one in particular.. it just seems to be the nature of the G-word debat) see it as absolutely critical that everyone use the exact same model that just happens to be where they get there money from... oh there it is right there.  

I'm a hobbyist, I use poser for fun.. I have ZERO interest in making sure people get paid.

If it was just a matter of "I like this figure, you should too"

It could be done with by a simple listing of the figures strengths.. others would say what they like about the figures they use and we really wouldnt need to see what we see everytime the subject comes up... because really.. if people dont like something they shouldnt use it and its no skin off anyones nose but their own.

To that point.. I'm of the opinion that outstanding content will sell no matter what figure its made for.. within reason... an awesomely dressed stickman is still a stickman.  If the figure is cheap and easy to get, and looks Really cool in whatever work you do there will be a market.

I would say its harder to make something 'must have' for v4 than it is for anastasia as an example.  V4 has several of every style of outfit imaginable.. sure some are better than others.. but if your building for v4 you can pretty much bet your outfit is Like outfit x, but with a top closer to outfit y.  

Vendors have the opportunity right now, to support figures that will offer them a much larger percent of a smaller, but growing market.  Or they can continue to suck the same teet and hope that they can convince everyone to stay on the teet and starve out competing figures.

I know where my dollars will go

 edit to add none of that directed directly at you badkitteh.. I know you are in fact making clothes for Anastasia.  Its much appreciated

Quote - I wish the market was big enough to support more diversity.

Bring your friends into the hobby or use of the programs or whatever you want to call it.

Myself and a number of other vendors are in a predicament where we're not at loss for ideas, but we always have to go for what we think will sell the most, because the market is so small, you can't survive making things that don't sell like crazy. End result it - less alternative content.

Yes, there are also people who do this part time and don;t depend on it for the income, I did that with my first couple of products. What happens on that end of things is issue of time management. If you're working at something 2-3 hours a day, instead of 8-12, it takes more day to make things.... end result is, less alternative content.

As for the figures .... never say never ;)

If you use V4, M4 and K4 IN STUDIO, a lot of the things that made me dislike them, are moot. Especially the scaling.

The problem isn't that V4, M4 and K4 are BAD.

They are just BADLY rigged for use in Poser.  :-(

Attached is a picture showing a modified SP3 versus a re-rigged and resculpted V4.

This would have been much more easy in Studio, because Studio has far better scaling abilities.

But for Poser, I had to completely re-rig her.

With Genesis OTOH, this type of quality cloning is just a matter of spinning a single dial in Poser !

(Hmm, I should try to also recreate her face and then redo that render using SSS) :-)

My point is, any mesh with good topology and a reasonable polygon count can be turned into any other mesh.

So why support a dozend of incompatible figures if you can have all the diversity you ever want just by using a single figure ?

It's just a waste of time and energy you could rather use to make art. (Or simply have fun in Poser)

"Tal's cheap.  Renders don't cost that much.  Let's see your Antonia."

I'm not going to drop everything I'm doing to make something that you will ABSOLUTELY find fault with because you're fiercely entrenched in the opposite camp as I am. Looking at that Antonia pic above in the three figure pic, I honestly think I would have a harder time making something that looks like that Alyson base (LOL, I'm sorry, but....man oh man). I also don't have Antonia installed, so any attempt would just be eyeballing it from a pic. But honestly, if you think that figure shape shown above is so original that it can't be duplicated, you really need to try turning some dials once in a while. That's not saying it's bad - she looks decent enough in that pic - but not something that the 3D community has never seen before.

edit: You're welcome to look through my gallery here and see that I've been able to make both fairly athletic and curvy shaped women with V4 (and these are all fairly old images). Here are three examples if you don't want to bother.

www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1794743
www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2056181 (nudity and violence)
www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2067339

“I haven't seen any character or shape on any other female figure that couldn't be done with V4 - my opinion only, but that's what I believe.” I tend to agree, though I wouldn’t swear to it in court :-) Unless you’re doing nudes or spandex, I’m not sure I would see much difference. Maybe a dedicated ‘heavy’ figure would be good because it bulking up may be one of the more difficult types to do well. I think that DAZ did a pretty good job with deriving Laura and Maddie from the V3 mesh and BH’s GND shows that you use the same mesh to create a more idealized athletic shape. That’s not to say that a bespoke child or athletic figure might not do the job even better, but again, under clothing how much of a difference is there? A couple of stock morph-able bodies with interchangeable heads sounds more appealing to me than many bodies. Miki’s face is unique to me and some of the other Japanese models seem more realistically Asian than their DAZ morphed counterparts, but it’s the heads, not the bodies per se that make them desirable IMO. Variety has a huge appeal though. I like having different figures. To me the ‘accessories’ are the major factor though. First and foremost, textures. There are some nice free ones but in general the best ones seem to be commercial. I have a few that I use all the time and being able to use them on different figures is important, thus my question about a V4 mapped version of Antonia. Clothing is also important. The easier it is to transfer without major hassles is important, especially for those who, for whatever reason, don’t use dynamic clothing. I love being able to use the same textures for V3, Laura and Maddie, use many morphs between them and get pretty good results with clothing. N.B. As for football, now that the Steelers have lost, football is dead to me. I wouldn’t cry in the unlikely event that Houston won it all though.

I want to make this clear right off, I am not trying to bash DAZ, SM or anyone in between, BUT the arguments presented so far in favor of the single figure are also, IMO, the best arguments against it! One company came out with the "ultimate" figure. Unfortunately thT figure also depended on using ONE software or forcing another company to change it's development cycle to fit the pattern of the "ultimate" figure. Like it or not that smells of monopoly to me folks. Again, I'm not bashing that company BUT I don't want to hand any monopoly to anyone! If we do then we are forced to buy only one set of development tools at a cost determined by a single provider, and whatever else they care to trademark or copyright. Think I'm crying wolf? There was a product sold in this store that allowed greater flexability to the"ultimate"figure, as soon as it's sales took off, it disappeared form this store only to appeR on the site of that same company for a higher price. I don't know that any pressure was excerted, but I'm sure SOME type of offer was made. Me, I'll bank for diversity. Otherwise one company will be able to dictate what is sold where and what it's priced at! This is NOT political, or company bashing, heck I use both program, altho I will admit I like one more than the other. And I truly hope BOTH companies do well as I have plans to double my possible income by selling for both platforms! But I also don't want to see any single provier having so much "power" that they can dictate how all future content is created and what it can be created for... Or with! That would soon lead to every buyer, seller and reseller, finding themselves in the position of having to toe the line or be excluded. If company B should have to use the file format as copyrighted by company A, even for free in the early stages, who's to say how long that will continue before company A pulls the plug, and company B finds itself years behind the development curve and thus forced out of the market altogether? Nope, I'll take diversity. Sorry if this enflames anyone. It's my opinion, I won't argue it's merits, or lack thereof. But I just thoght it's time I aired them.

Leterworks, there is no diversity anymore.

It was gone the moment Poser 5 shipped with Judy and Don.

After that, the DAZ juggernaut has waltzed over EVERYTHING in it's way.

You want to beat Vicky, you have to build a better Vicky.

Simple as that.

Why else should a top merchants support your figure ?

Or a new user decide against downloading free studio 4 ?

Problem is, without a full size laser scanner, a group of professional modellers and a lot of time and money, you can't build something as good as Genesis.

In regards to figures, Poser not just missed the bus, it missed the invention of the internal combustion machine.

Sorry, but we've all been assimilated a long time ago.

You might just as well lean back and enjoy it.  :-)

Variety is the spice of life. If everyone liked the same thing, said the same thing, did the same thing, it would be a boring world.

All the best.

LROG

Quote - I want to make this clear right off, I am not trying to bash DAZ, SM or anyone in between, BUT the arguments presented so far in favor of the single figure are also, IMO, the best arguments against it! One company came out with the "ultimate" figure. Unfortunately thT figure also depended on using ONE software or forcing another company to change it's development cycle to fit the pattern of the "ultimate" figure. Like it or not that smells of monopoly to me folks. Again, I'm not bashing that company BUT I don't want to hand any monopoly to anyone! If we do then we are forced to buy only one set of development tools at a cost determined by a single provider, and whatever else they care to trademark or copyright. Think I'm crying wolf? There was a product sold in this store that allowed greater flexability to the"ultimate"figure, as soon as it's sales took off, it disappeared form this store only to appeR on the site of that same company for a higher price. I don't know that any pressure was excerted, but I'm sure SOME type of offer was made. Me, I'll bank for diversity. Otherwise one company will be able to dictate what is sold where and what it's priced at! This is NOT political, or company bashing, heck I use both program, altho I will admit I like one more than the other. And I truly hope BOTH companies do well as I have plans to double my possible income by selling for both platforms! But I also don't want to see any single provier having so much "power" that they can dictate how all future content is created and what it can be created for... Or with! That would soon lead to every buyer, seller and reseller, finding themselves in the position of having to toe the line or be excluded. If company B should have to use the file format as copyrighted by company A, even for free in the early stages, who's to say how long that will continue before company A pulls the plug, and company B finds itself years behind the development curve and thus forced out of the market altogether? Nope, I'll take diversity. Sorry if this enflames anyone. It's my opinion, I won't argue it's merits, or lack thereof. But I just thoght it's time I aired them.

Very well said.

This has worried me too especially in light of what has happened recently. Sorry but I too think a monopoly is bad for both customers and vendors. We need freedom of choice. Any other option has too many ramifications which in the long term cannot be good for anyone except the company with the monopoly, whoever they may be.

This was the last time we all had true freedom of choice.

Because true freedom of choice can only be had if you are allowed to choose between comparable alternatives:

Ford vs Chevy

Mercury vs Pontiac

Lincoln vs Cadillac

But not VW vs Mercedes

Especially if that "Mercedes" can also be a Chevy or Ford or Pontiac or Cadillac or VW with a single dial turn.

I don't feel much love for DAZ.

If there would be a truly better non-DAZ figure out there I'd use it in a New York second.

But I won't waste my time with inferior figures just to spite DAZ. Sorry.

Been there, done that.

And I got lots of skeletons in my runtime to proof that I really tried.  :-)

I mean, it's not that DAZ kills fluffy white bunnys while testing textures or have children work in a sweatchop hidden in an Utah basement sewing clothing for Vicky and Mike.

Both SM and DAZ are companies that are in it for the money.

Brand loyalty is a nice thing, but it shouldn't stand in the way of real progress.

Don't say that!!!!!

You upset Sad Bunny!!!!! LOL.

All the best.

LROG